Now that the dust has settled, can we all agree that nobody will surpass Tolkien for at least the next few decades?

Yes. The games could be better but that's about it.

kino

Fantasy as stories about fantastic events and lands certainly were a thing before Tolkien. The difference is that Tolkien gave context for everything he wrote about expanding the scope of the story before anything written before in the genre.

Tolkien "borrowed" from plenty of sources.

Oh yeah, and what are Rowling's achievements?
Having a vagina?
What are Martin's? Being fat?

>before
far above

There's a reason why pretty much all of modern fantasy is in one way or another a rip-off of LotR.

>the bible didn't exist

it's the only fantasy

It most certainly sets the benchmark for everything in the genre, and unfortunately many successor series seem to want to emulate it as much as possible, but there is not beating the original cunning linguist. Reading the Silmarillion was as much the same experience as reading an ancient 'real' saga like Beowulf
Just be thankful he was true to European culture and has helped preserve it to some degree in mainstream culture; no dindoos to be seen anywhere (aside from the orcs), while European values continue to be praised

Why the fuck did a Tolkien biopic just come out

They tend to be highly inaccurate ripoffs though. Most barely resemble Tolkein.

Because autists will ignore everything that is different.

Lord of the Rings is boring.

>He is an excellent low fantasy author.

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blocks your path

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not a big fan of lotr tbqh i find it boring

but yeah tolkien was in a league of his own, the world is much more coherent than any other fantasy world i know

why are you posting sci-fi

I loved The Two Towers game, Gimli was an absolute tank

Tolkein is in another league. The man could have gotten a professorship teaching linguistics or mythology anywhere he wanted.

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based and redpilled

You'll never get someone with the particular combination of autisms Tolkien had that led to his greatness. And it's funny because he's technically by miles the worst writer of the three.
It's the love unmotivated by money that makes the real difference I think. Nigger spent between 20-30 years rewriting the same fucking book over & over again until he felt he got it right.

based tolkien dabbing on the horror that is the english written and spoken language

>Implying that Tolkein didnt draw inspiration from the world wars

Even Middle Earth, just like Westeros and Essos, are arranged in a very European way. Mordor is the Middle East, lmao. Wanna take a guess as to who the white, jolly hobbits in the Northeast are meant to represent? And the tall, beautiful, cultured elves just west of them? Dwarves are our money-loving friends, of course.

So yeah, I like Tolkein and I agree he's the best, but let's not perpetuate this idea that Middle Earth was some original idea he had in his head. It's 100% okay that his fantasy world has echoes of the real world, the best art usually does.

Literally insurmountable

Should I read Tolkien if I liked reading GRRM? I read 4 ASOIAF books.............

Do you know what in large part separates Tolkien from everyone who came after? He didn't write a 'fantasy novel', he wrote a heroic romance that fits for all intents and purposes into the canon of real historical epics, you can set LOTR on the bookshelf between Beowulf and Le Morte D'Arthur and it would not all be out of place because it was essentially written the same way in the same mode.
Everyone else just wrote a book.

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When will genuine sci-fi become mainstream I wonder? And no I do not mean Star Wars or even Star Trek; the closest thing that comes to mind is The Expanse, but even that almost got cancelled and only got saved by Bezos

Given how Tolkien did translations on Beowulf & Arthurian stories, the comparison is well founded. Tolkien is more than experienced with those.

Ok calm down now. I doubt his books were that good. Fantasy is fantasy.

Tolkien was a fucking hack homo who wrote capeshit but somehow gayer than the kiddie book versions. Straight up gay manchild bullshit made for brainlets who think entry level fantasy trash is SO DEEP LE MUSTARD THE RHORRIM DUDE WIZARDS AND A DANCING FAGGOT IN THE WOODS SO EBIN XD garbage. He also fucked guys in the war where he was a coward and stole his ideas from his hero friend that died in the trenches. Ancalagon was literally an allegory for his lust for BBC. SHIT!

Y'all should read Malazan Book of the Fallen

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Boy i bet you feel stupid

Yes, that is what Tolkien fancucks usually look like. That or fat turbovirgin mongoloids. Thanks for posting that for me.

If Twitter existed back then he would be tweeting about how hobbits jerked eachother off in hobbit school and changing his characters color just like Rowling does now.

>I doubt his books were that good
They're not, really. But they're still brilliant.
Tolkien wasn't a writer & this shit was all borne out of a need for the languages he was inventing to have a history to draw their words from. He wrote like what he knew & loved which were ancient classics, not great technical pieces of work in themselves, but still brilliant & iconic because they were some of the earliest surviving fictional works.
Fantasy is in large part Fantasy; but he set a huge number of the tropes & archetypes of the genre. You have to take take into consideration that they weren't tropes before Tolkien, they became tropes because of how iconic his work was.

It was a much different fucking world culturally in Tolkien's prime. And he both directly fought in WWI and clandestinely in WWII. For a lot of reasons Tolkien would be fucking horrified at the modern world, especially modern Britain.

Philip Pullman surpassed Tolkein in book form ages ago.
But the movie was a poor adaptation and the TV show could still be terrible.

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You movie cuck have never heard about Steven Erikson, have you?

>Reading fantasy

Lel get a girlfriend already.

>steal from european themes
The only themes in LotR are English.

Le Guin is bretty good desu

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Earthsea was great before she went apeshit with the feminist bullshit

>perfect movie trilogy
ghost. army. it's still the best

100% he'd be fighting for refugee rights and calling Trump Sauron while rape gangs took over his neighborhood and raped Mrs. Tolkien.

>not hiding your fondness for fantasy from your gf(s) as an escape and instead discussing obscure but normie-tier history and political science
Bloody shameful.

races are to solid now, before a race was whoever was in this or that village or small region under some other people or whatever, with new entrances and exits into these races made naturally without compromising them. We live in fucking clown world. They were more sane before like in antiquity you take them here they would go mad.

Ghost army further ensured it was the best.

>worst writer of the three
Wrong

>and calling Trump Sauron
You obviously don't know Tolkien, he fucking HATED allegory & refused to use it. He'd be horrified at the subtle bit of it Jackson interjected, he'll outright roll in his damn grave over the Shitazon show.

I was speaking purely from a technical standpoint.
LOTR is his best work & a ton of its elements are all over the place, especially the pacing.

>he's technically by miles the worst writer of the three.
This better be bait; even literary snobs who look down on Tolkien will admit he's a much better prose writer than Rowling. Rowling is a styleless hack.

It's not fair to compare two pop authors writing in a genre of fiction against the guy who invented the genre of fiction they are writing into. That's like comparing a highschool physics teacher and an undergrad lab assistant to Einstein or Hawking, it's an unfair comparison. Of course they are turds wrapped in burning hair next to Tolkien.

He invented a the Languages first.
Literally, in the beginning there was THE WORD.

Tolkien pretty much

C R E A T E D

what we nowadays think of as "Fantasy".
D&D is a LotR fanfic.
All other writers copied him or at least borrowed the general setting and feel.

See ; Tolkien has more creativity in a pinkie than Rowling & Martin combined, but he was not a writer.

I agree, but how is Rowling a better writer? Somebody post the Stephen King macro.

What did he mean by this?

Of course he could have gotten a professorship teaching linguistics and mythology anywhere, he would be moving down because he already WAS a professor of linguistics at Cambridge, arguable the best school in the world at the time.

cringe

Best post in thread and 100% correct.
>rewriting the story from the beginning
God, I love those books.

Wrong.
Because Jews can only COPY not CREATE.

But even from a technical standpoint Rowling is the worst of the three. If you think she doesn't have massive pacing issues, go read Order of the Phoenix.

Tehanu is maybe my favorite book ever.
Yeah I'm a woman: so what? Her women are strong, but also domestic (and heterosexual) as hell.

It ends up being ease of readability. Rowling writes far more uncreatively but a modern 8 year old can still follow it, whereas LOTR is kind of a slog in a lot of places.

Something something stretching legs

bruh for a time Tolkien's translation was one of the best out there. He lived and breathed languages on a different level than most people. Even today, his translation of Beowulf is one that best captures the flowing cadence and tone (two very important things for a transcribed oral story) of the old-English epic that modern translations fuck up.

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I read LOTR to my 8 year old, and he immediately requested that I read it again.
One should not "write down" to children.

WEEEWWWW I SAW THIS ON REDDIT TOOOOO, BUT HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO GET MY UPBOATS ON THIS SITE??????

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I dont like war hammer 40k but I watched a lore video that was over an hour long and it only covered the human race history and it seemed pretty deep and interesting

I love those books very much, but they broke down at the end, imo. I got it, they're Adam and Eve and they kill god through their innocents. That doesn't stop it from feeling forced and anti-climactic--which, again, I get because it's supposed to subvert what you least expected during this grand, multi-verse battle raging all around you. Subverting expectations is rarely good even when done well and it wasn't done well, at all. You get cock-teased through the whole trilogy and then your orgasm gets ruined. And don't get me started on the forced feels with the whole deamon and bridge thing.

Meanwhile Tolkien had an epic ending to his epic tale, as it should have been.

that's being pretty dishonest

I don't know what you think is 'cringe' about the truth, even the Norse influence on LotR was translated through Tolkien's belief that the Angles shared mythology and king-legends with the Norse, particularly the ancient Danes, he wrote an entire thesis at Oxford about it. If there were a man less likely to be interested in the Continent, it's Tolkien.

You are a brainlet then. I read the Lord of the Rings when I was 10 and didn't have that much trouble reading it. It was slow reading and I didn't appreciate it the way I do know, but I still enjoyed it.

I'm sick to death of fantasy with a medieval european setting. I would love if a good fantasy based on indian, amerinidan or african miths existed but nooo always the same copy-pasted dragons and elves everywhere.

cringe

>anti-climactic
I mean, if you call changing the afterlife for everyone in the multi verse and thus freeing everyone from the hand of the Authority forever anticlimactic.

But that's one of the better books

Sign me up senpai

Daemon and bridge?
Do you mean Pantalaimon and Kirjava?

You're the minority. It's not a grand euro-centric conspiracy keeping all fantasy European, it's because Europeans buy books about fantasy the most and, surprise surprise, like people like themselves. If Africans or Indians started buying up fantasy books left and right, people would write more fantasy books about Africans and Indians.

fat amerimutt

cringe

>Europpors buy fiction because they are brainlets and numales
>other races buy serious books
Make sense.

Give me two.

You could be right, since I read them when I was 12. I have to reread them and see if they hold up.
But I don't remember my expectations being subverted at all anywhere in the story.

Shit, meant deamon and boat, with the heaviest handed symbolism for loss of innocents ever put to page in fiction.

That's not the climax that's the resolution. The climax is them running around in the Garden of Edem for 20 pages too long and their deamons rubbing on each other. And then they kill God the end.

This is terrible bait.
I'm not even going to post a bait pic: that's how bad it is.

The Garden of Eden was the shit.
Perhaps you haven't read enough mythology or theology.
Do you understand how Dust subverts ALL religion, and the kids brought a victory for Dust? Do you understand WHY it was a victory.
The first time I read that, I was shaking. It is absolutely masterful, and powerful, and if stories have any power at all, it could change the world.
I've always thought it hilarious how Christians sperg out over Harry Potter, but His Dark Materials goes right under their radar.

The Authority wasn't god.
Have you even read the books?

In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dínen.
"You cannot enter here," said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. "Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!"
The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter.
"Old fool!" he said. "Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!" And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade.

And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the city, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of war nor of wizardry, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.
And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns, in dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the north wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last

>During the war, we were all orcs.

The Catholics did sperg out about him

>I am no man

Nobody cares unless crazy Southern Baptists and Pentecostals burn the books.

I've ready it several times throughout my life, as a christian, an agnostic, and after getting a minor in Anthropology focusing on Indo-European religions, and I admit this may make me see it too heavy-handed than most because I've ready religious texts religiously and academically most of my life, but it comes across as too on the nose and it goes on for too long.

As a woman, this was my favorite line of the triology :)

Too on the nose?
Do you mean too obvious? Because I certainly did not see it coming.
I'll grant you one thing: it does go on a bit too long.
Those killer swans, though.

>all those big words to say "FUCK KIKES"
brits always give me a chuckle

The ps2 games were kino
>that helms deep level

at least the other two aren't racist pricks who hate the rest of the world

this is what I got
>Races are too solid nowadays. In ancient times a race was more of a people who lived in a certain region or village and assimilation happened without compromising any parties. We live in an absurd, senseless world. If you transported a person from antiquity to our times the would be very angry.

>perfect
Fellowship was basically perfect, the tom bombadil stuff was an unfortunate loss but it woudln't have made sense within a cinematic narrative

TTT was solid but there was an overemphasis on Helm's Deep, it was great cinema but here is where we really begin to diverge from faithfulness (at least spiritual faithfulness)

ROTK goes off the deep end. Ghost army, elephant surfing, quipping, ect.

And they weren't actually frolicking through Eden, it's called allegory. No the Authority wasn't really God but he was a stand-in for him in literally every way imaginable.

They do exist, but you’re not aware of them because you don’t live there.

their styles could hardly be more different

I forget, how did the battle of pelinor fields end in the books?

It's a very big and important point that he is not god, but a usurper.
Come on.

Tolkien was on some crazy shit. He created several fictional languages, and then wrote a proto-language for those languages, and each language has their own unique dialects as well. He will never be beaten, not in our lifetimes anyways.

Everyone needs to sit the fuck down.
>THE KINO KING IS COMING THROUGH

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the orcs aren't stand-ins for blacks, they're literally Germanic facists.

>May the curse of Babel strike all their tongues till they can only say 'baa baa'. It would mean much the same.

Fucking based.

>said this
>didn't support hitler and the nazis

Tolkien was a cuck

Why would he support living sex dolls? He likes being able to win a war.

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Abso lute kino just finished book 4 last week.

ahem

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I don't get it

Which category does C.S. Lewis fall into?

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A-HEM

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Lord of the Rings is (or at least was) low fantasy and ASOIAF is high fantasy.

L M F A O
M
F
A
O

Look at this man here, this man who does not know the difference between high and low fantasy.
Look at him, and laugh.

Every time I read Martin's works pertaining to fantasy, I can't help but imagine him hating everything fantasy stands for because he's an atheistic, materialistic, egalitarian feminist writing about a setting that confirms the existence of gods and other supernatural entities, where magic denies materialism, where races of other sapient beings exist that are superior to humanity in some fashion or in most, and the fact that feminism is outright ignored or even ridiculed.

He tries to "subvert" this by attempting to claim his series has a degree of verisimilitude, but it's unfounded, that not only insults fantasy but creates a situation where his values of feminism and democratic rule being victorious in a more ancient time just seems false, incoherent, and ironically enough, unrealistic.

It's as if I'm watching Rian Johnson direct Star Wars. He hates everything that has made Star Wars such a pop culture phenomenon, that he has to demonize and belittle the past characters, lore and defining aspects of the franchise so he can glorify what he believes should replace it.

>magic denies materialism

plebs will never understand

And tax policy.
Don't forget the tax policy.

High fantasy is typically a question of "how institutionalized is magic?".
LotR and ASOIAF are low fantasy, whereas Harry Potter is as high fantasy as it gets.

But the Hobbit came first, then LotR, and then he sorted out and committed his head cannon to publishing. He basically did the JK Rowling bit but instead of retiring off to tweeting vapid nonsense the rest of his life, actually kept writing and pushing his new genre

D&D took very little inspiration from Tolkien except some of the races because Tolkien was popular at the time. D&D's inspiration is sword and sorcery like Fritz Leiber and Robert Howard.

i tried. this shit sucks. reads like bad D&D fan fiction.

is hating the jew the key to being a successful published author?

The Man of Gold

Based

Races were always the widest categorization of peoples. You're thinking of ethnicity, which was until the 20th century usually sub-national.

All of JK Rowling's writings were stolen from other material. Just watch the trailer for the kid's TV show, "the worst witch" and then check the publishing date of those books. Even platform 9 3/4 was in a different story.

*a challenger appears*

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Tolkien takes inspiration from mythology, but actually builds a unique world out of it. 90% of what GRRM writes is just a retelling of the War of the Roses with random Asian shit mixed. And don't even get me started on what passes for "lore" in the HP verse.

You are honestly going to criticize Tolkien for pacing when compared to Martin? Get the fuck out.

>Low fantasy or intrusion fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction where magical events intrude on an otherwise normal world, i.e. real world.[1][2] It thus contrasts with high fantasy stories, which take place in a fictional world with its own set of rules and physical laws.

You may be thinking of the RPG definition but that would be because you are a pleb and a retard. This thread is about the literary definition.

GURM doesn't like the Middle Ages, religion, or even the suggestion that good and evil people exist IRL. AND unlike say, Whedon, GURM can't write characters or stories that go against his values and what he believes is reality without outright demonizing or proving that character or setting wrong. It's so childish that once you seen through it, you begin to realize and appreciate writers who are able to write characters and craft settings that go against their personal beliefs.

Alan Moore will always be above GURM in my eyes, because GURM can never write a character like Walter Kovac or V. The first character is seen in a overall positive light despite being a Right-wing Objectivist that goes against Moore's anarchist beliefs and the second involving an anarchist terrorist that vilifies Moore's personal political beliefs.

Aragorn still saves the day, but with a bunch of his ranger buddies instead. The ghosts weren't actually ghosts IIRC, and only helped them defeat the pirates.

You're wrong.

I have an announcement to make

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ok. But remember that it also has to be /good/ and not only complex

Robert Jordan

No I'm right. Feel free to name a wider categorization of humans than race.

Martin barely mentions tax policy and when he does, it's usually showing that characters who are responsible for managing financial accounts and taxes are either corrupt or incompetent. He's pretty much demonstrating to readers why no one cares about tax policy.

>an unfortunate loss
Dude
I've read LotR 8 times
Every time I must suffer through Tom Bombadil
Fuck Tom Bombadil

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

Not a book but it's the only thing close to indian/asian influence I could think off

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>lol what if we had robots that dress up like Doctor Doom and throw golden sneetches at people
Mr. King please stop doing drugs

you just don't understand Tom Bombadil
youtube.com/watch?v=ZZouiWmzWoY

>with whom, as much as I do admire him, I do quibble
Fucking dangling preposition there.
Low fantasy and low grammar.

Species

That's not my point though. Historically race and ethnicity were often synonymous. It was only in the 60s that using race in that way became considered politically incorrect.

>What was Aragorn’s tax policy?
never fails to make me laugh, god Martin is a hack.

The later books of the Black Company are set in magic India and magic Vietnam.

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Robert E Howard is actual GOAT and Conan need to be done correctly

>nips your franchise in the bud by forcing a nigger into your Clint Eastwood main character role and making a terrible movie that had nothing to do with the book
Where's your crown, King Nothing?

>correctly
What do you mean by this? Arnold's Conan is a great movie.

Malazan was heavily influenced by Glen Cook's Black Company books, which have been optioned by another team of no-hopers looking to cash in on GoT's success.

At least the Witcher series look like it shall provide us with more to seeth about inbetween huge bouts of unintended giggling.

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It's absolute kino but it's not really Conan

I own every book in this series. Not just the Erikson ones, Esslemont's too. Waiting for more.
This, it has too much of a plot in it. Conan shouldn't have a plot.

>8 books of material in 88 minutes

I really doubt it, he hated everything new that was being developed, he hated industrialism, he hated trains, he hated the american nerds who phoned him during the night because of his books, he hated having to speak english during the mass where he spoke latin for most of his life.
In fact, if Tolkien was still alive the media would absolutely hate him and he wouldn't be as popular because left trash would be raining insults on him asking him to change his books and adding niggers and trannies.

Low fantasy just means it takes place in the real world. See chronicles of Narnia

> What is the ring cycle

>species
Nope. Once you're not talking about humans you're not talking about humans.
Show me a single source that suggests Caucasoid is the equivalent of Arab/German/Armenian/Turkish and that those ethnicities are all the same. You can't. Because that's retarded and you're wrong.

I don't fucking know

B&R

The only thing bad about this book is Neil Gayman's name on the cover.

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Steven Universe vs Rick and Morty vs Adventure Time

How old are you? I'm talking about historical usage.

forgotten hack

The first quarter of The King of Elfland's Daughter is probably the most ripped-off work of fiction ever - everyone's copied it at some point and it's become more or less the blueprint for the fantasy genre. It's also the only part that would make a modern movie - the remaining bulk of the book is just the aftermath of the human town's decision and a moral lesson on why you shouldn't really try to get what you wish for.

The Charwoman's Shadow is another excellent Dunsany piece. Disney certainly think so because so much of their early movies derive from it.

Dude you're fucking retarded. This is black and white. Ethnicity is not race. It's always been more specific. It's always had to do with Nations (which is the actual term that was historically used).
You're talking out of your ass that a contradiction in terms is how people used to view things. They didn't. You're stupid. Jesus Christ.

>Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy:
Because LOTR takes place in a medieval-inspired setting. Of course characters are going to espouse values they were raised to believe in since birth and have no reason to modify, let alone question. Aragorn spewing the importance of democracy and why it should supplant monarchy would be so out of character for him and against the entire point of his character, his genetic lineage connected to his kingdom, the prophecies that foretold his rule as king, and his mere existence that defies Democratic rule in the first place.

That's why Tyrion supporting such notions just seems so strange in the novels, because he has everything to lose if democracy was ever implemented in Westeros. His noble status, family history, and lands are all based on serfdom and feudal rule.

I wish I saved that quote of Tolkien saying he thought about writing a book that happened after the ring was destroyed, but writing about the day-to-day shit of a kingdom would be too boring and pointless

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts

You should unironically kill yourself.

It's science fantasy you dumb fuck

Jesus fucking Christ. You took this straight from plebbit.

all science fiction is science fantasy

It wasn't complete clown world just yet.

>read an obscure author who wrote a book about a fictional secret society made of intellectuals and their plan to create a fictional galaxy, nation, religion, laws, language etc with such perfection that, eventually, said creating would change our reality
>wrote one short story about it (because he isn't good enough to write a whole book) and another short story about the author he stole from
>he even inserted his friend and himself in both short stories
>literally got away with it
Honestly, how can a man be such a hack? My God! He should be in jail for plagiarism.

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The fat writer and the whore are just a Jewish product. That's why they are shit, but have won millions.

>read no farther than the first paragraph on fucking wikipedia
Try reading the article and not getting hung up on a single bit of archaic etymology.

What story is this? Sounds cool.

>can't read

Everything makes sense now. Enjoy yourself.

>Tolkein's supports true diversity, and not the multi-ethnic, mono-cultural assimilation sense, but true political, cultural, traditional diversity notion that sets the nations apart
Based, Literally ahead of his time and a prophet as well.

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>man who was against homogeneity was against homogeneity
Remember how hard Hitler fought to preserve the gypses, russians, ukranians and poles? How could Tolkien be against him?

"Uqbar" and "Herbert Quain", both from Ficciones.

Thanks mate.

I want someone to bring Tolkien back from the dead for a Masterclass. I'd watch the shit out of that. Today's writers need it.

I dont know, I enjoyed Raymond E. Feist's "The Riftwar Saga"

Lovecraft gang disputes that nigga

Why did you post sci-fi?

the black company is absolutely based

Thoughts on this book?

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Tried reading it, was too boring.

I'm on the The Sword of the Lictor right now. Can totally tell that the Jewish publishers buried Gene Wolfe because this shit is so much better than the Jewish-golem scifi/fantasy trash that is popular now. Granted, you have to have about 110 IQ to be able to understand it. And it's real understanding, not the tedious Isaac Asimov trash that engineers beat off to.

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Where to start with reading Tolkien? I read the Hobbit years ago in middle school. Should I just go straight to LOTR or give the Hobbit a reread? Also are the other books like Children of Hurin good?

Tolkien disliked Wagner, and there are many stories featuring magical rings. (One should note that in the Ring Cycle, the ring is directly cursed by Alberich the dwarf when Wotan takes it from him; Tolkien's "One Ring" has no such curse, with drastically different consequences for both stories). It's far more likely that any common elements are from the Volsunga Saga which both Wagner and Tolkien are known to have been familiar with.

No offense, but you either have insufficient IQ, or you have a lack of understanding of Traditionalism to comprehend the meaning of the book. I'd tell you to read Julius Evola to better understand, but Revolt Against The Modern World is ever harder to read than Book of the New Sun.

No problem, fren.
If you like it, read El Aleph too, but avoid everything else he wrote.

>should I give the Hobbit a reread
It's short and good so yes. You probably forgot what it was like anyway.
>Children of Hurin
Good, yes. Very good. You just need to understand Tolkien never finished it. Once you get past Lord of the Rings and into the Silmarillion stuff you'll be working with unfinished materials collected and edited by Tolkien's son, and you won't get the complete experience.

>Tolkien disliked Wagner

How can anyone (other than Jews) dislike Wagner? Like, WTF?

>best school in the world at the time
>not Oxford

Children of Hurin is good and, personally, really profound and filled with logos
LOTR is of course essential

Lol he hated globalism

>El Aleph
This one I already know. The idea of an aleph was used in an issue of Saga of the Swamp Thing.

>Traditionalism with a capital T
Sounds pretentious.

>tfw tried reading for 20+ hrs
>tried listening to audiobooks for 40+ hrs
>autistically, unironically, introduced it to reading groups and tried to convince multiple forums and other groups to help me understand shadow of the torturer let alone the other three in main series and the 2-3 offshoots

ive decided that gene wolfe designed it to only be understood by actual intellectuals. i couldn't fucking read it no matter how hard i tried. my comprehension is everywhere, and there's so many sub-stories with sub-examples and sub-meanings that unless you're gifted with a fantastic memory you'll never be able to start to understand it. it's literally the dark souls of fantasy fiction writing

>tfw 89 iq brainlet

Heavily overrated, lacking in thematic cogency, shouldn't have even been a trilogy - needed a severe cutting out of fat and chaff. The first one was alright, but the sequels are a strong step down, with Subtle Knife being essentially nothing but filler. Fun reads, but by no means a grand step forward for literature, rather more of the same. It won't really go down as a classic that stands the test of time.

>100% he'd be fighting for refugee rights and calling Trump Sauron while rape gangs took over his neighborhood and raped Mrs. Tolkien.

Did you miss this part?
JRR hated globalism. He hated the fact that people were heading towards a universal language, let alone following Western customs and values. He was a true advocate of diversity that necessitates the existence of nationalism for it to continue.

>Tolkien disliked Wagner

confirmed pleb then

Read Revolt before i even heard of the NS saga. You're very right because the "point" of the Autarchy is easy to miss if you don't have a traditionalist understanding of kingship

Blame DnD for that. It's why fantasy is so gamefied. The races weren't even close to equal in LotR, but every modern fantasy just has elves as pointy eared humans.

Not trying to disagree with you because Tolkien really is better than those two hacks, but didn't he also borrow ideas from real history? Like wasn't the Rohirrim cavalry charge in Return of the King essentially based directly of the Winged Hussars at the Siege of Vienna?

This, it won't be though. Conan is too racist and generally chauvinistic for modern audiences (and that's a good thing).

>Is lotr the ultimate fantasy?
There is a reason why every single work of fantasy steals from it one way or another.

>but every modern fantasy

warcraft 3 didn´t

the age of men is over. the time of the orc has come.

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confirmed

Not even a Tolkien fan but this is bullshit
Only someone who has never read a single Lovecraft book can say something like this.
He was a terrible writer despite being quite creative

GRRM is a fatty that runs out of breath if he types too fast.

Didn't know Rowling was a racist :-O

>tfw pale lanklet amazon torture-dungeon gf tricks you into letting her killing herself
>get kicked out of torture school
>big dick energy prevents you from being excommunicated
>instead you're given a job in gay mountainous not-jamaica
>dean of torture school gives u a shitty map, some really black light-absorbing pants and cape and a square sword filled with mercury
>???
>find and eventually marry your great great grandmom as a child
>eat your dead pale lanklet amazon torture-dungeon gf while high under some sort of drug juice made from the essence of a shapeshifting alien that looks like a bear
>find out your pale lanklet amazon torture-dungeon gf never actually loved you and just used you to try to out of the torture dungeon
>???
>find and meet yourself as a child
>actually get him zapped to ashes on a wire fence
>???
>become super emperor of planet earth

ns saga doesn't make any fucking sense man

>be uncultured
>complain about being uncultured

>It's amazing how well done that was though

Look at ep3 of GoT and everyone complaining about Arya killing the NK, how she had no connection to him and how Jon's whole narrative was built around that.

Meanwhile, the same could be said for Aragorn. History and Destiny would both say he's the one to fight the Nazgul King, but he doesn't. Neither fights him, nor kills him. In fact, just like Jon, I can't recall Aragorn doing anything hugely important personally in that major battle, not until he charged the Black Gates as a distraction. Aragorn has no massive climatic Good v Evil duel against any major foe.

And no-one complains, no-one says he didn't deserve his accolades or that Eowyn should be the King instead, or any of this stuff. It was never written to pander, and it worked completely.

There's a podcast called Alzabo Soup that goes chapter by chapter if you want to understand a lot of the references and metaphors. Wolfe wrote it to be mysterious so don't feel bad if you don't get all of it. Although I don't want anyone to misunderstand me and think that the book is post-modern trite like some David Lynch movie where it's mysterious for no other reason then to be mysterious.

like every brit he hated the mainland and the people inhabiting it

One of the greatest memes I've ever seen. Tolkien must have made this meme.

Nobody mentioned Dune yet so I'll mention Dune.

Other races either can't read, won't read, or are only allowed to read the Quran.

Wtf no Lovecraft was a horrible writer

Projection by some continental faggot

Tolkien was staunchly opposed to anti-Semitism so I guess that might be one reason

>Read Revolt before i even heard of the NS saga. You're very right because the "point" of the Autarchy is easy to miss if you don't have a traditionalist understanding of kingship

Yes. Gene Wolfe talks just about this during this interview at 3:40
youtu.be/t_mEpLK8cWE?t=220

Oh how I wish there were more video interviews of Gene Wolfe before he got so old.

lol i remember when germans thought he was a jew

I read some Xianxia stuff on wuxiaworld that I enjoyed very much feel free to check it out.

Tolkien was publishing books after death. GRR can't even finish a fucking sentence without leaving to the next con

the ghosts are actually just ghosts, can't touch things but spooky asf. soooo, Aragorn takes them down south and scares the corsairs away, then takes the army defending that region (the fiefdoms) to be the reinforcements.

also before going down the paths of the dead he met up with the grey company, a bunch of rangers he had led, along with Elrond's twin sons elladan and elrohir. pelennor also plays out differently, a guy named prince imrahil (essentially the leader of the fiefdoms and second-in-command of gondor) is largely in charge of the defense of minas tirith and once Aragorn and rohan arrive, he rallies the troops and rides out from the city with them to turn the tide.
it's a very well done battle, despite being the 'more fantastical' series lord of the rings consistently wipes the floor with game of thrones for tactics and depictions of battle

Don't forget Tolkien spent 11 years making up a constructed language which he later used for worldbuilding

>look mum I posted it again

trash book

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>And it's funny because he's technically by miles the worst writer of the three.
I'm not a good writer but it should be pretty obvious that Tolkien is the best writer of the three and Martin is perhaps the worst. Martin's prose in some places is just terrible, something you wouldn't expect to find from a successful professional writer.

In terms of telling an engaging story, however, Martin is probably the best of the three. His prior experience in television and comic books shows in his ability to structure a story where the reader is left wanting more.

Viewed holistically, I would rank them as follows:

1. Tolkien
2. Martin

Power gap

9001. Rowling

Sadly, I can see the Silmarillion being all gayed up. They wouldn't dare go to this extent, but they will definitely gay it up.

Elric disagrees.
We need a movie.

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>In terms of telling an engaging story, however, Martin is probably the best of the three
Maybe for the first book, the second at a stretch. The fourth was really painful, it was obvious he was phoning it in.

Sadly LoTR is the only fantasy to have done a good book and movie. It's really quite disappointing seeing as we are in 2019

10/10 unironically wolfe is an amazing writer

How do you feel about Michael Moorcock's essay against Tolkien?

revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953

This. GRRM can't even into linguistics.

Read more and watch more.

It's been awhile since I read the books but Arya's story (training in the assassin's guild) was great reading. Just that story thread alone makes me eager for the lazy bum to stop goofing off at cosplay conventions and finish and release the next book.

Dumb question, anyone have the screencap of "The pose when Game of Thrones Died" thread?

Underrated post

Feast is the best book. You just have shit taste.

Is Robin Hobb worth reading senpai?
I still really enjoyed early Feist, Magician and the Riftwar Saga was satisfying.

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not just a language, multiple languages. he made a language for elves, men, and dwarves, then made different cultural derivatives for each and mapped out how they connect to ancient versions of the language and how those all interacted and molded eachother as well.

I hate GoT and love lotr but even I'll admit it's an unfair comparison to try and fight, Tolkien even before his writing was a world-renowned philologist with expertise in Christian philosophy and medieval literature, he had the perfect seeds to make a truly unrivaled setting. martin, on the other hand, is just some goober atheist that just "borrows" medieval events and switches things out so he can tow the edgy/political line. even by martin's own stated goals (to make a heavily grounded low-fantasy settings with realistic explanations for everything) he fails completely as soon as you just look at the godamn fucking castles. I mean FUCK, the eyrie? really? god damn, minas tirith had detailed history of the farmland and rammas echor that served as security around the city. FUCK martin makes me mad, not because of what he is but because of what he says he is. we'll never get neat low fantasy well done while this hackery is what normies want

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Which book was successfully adapted to film besides LoTR? GOT failed miserably.

The adaptation wasn't perfect because it is impossible to do so with Tolkien's work. The trilogy was still a masterpiece and I am thankful every day it has been released over 15 years ago and not today.

I'll say if you like Arya's character, you'll love the fourth. I just never bought into her at all. I didn't like Daenerys after Viserys died and I was getting a bit tired of Tyrion, as well. They're too improbable and go through too many volte-face changes of character.

George R.R. Martin is a poopy headed fuccboi, but I can totally see why his drek is so popular now. He takes European history and myths then completely removes the spiritualism, meaning of the traditions, and esotericism. It totally fits into the post-modern Jewish culture of pure empiricism that we live in today. It's nice and easily digestible for the degenerate dumb dumbs that think they're better than any run-of-the-mill peasant from the Middle Ages.

Why ponder the deeper meaning of God's connection to man and the symbolism we create in our own social structures when we can just have dope ass Danerys fly her dragonz and prove she's da real SLAY QUEEN SLAY?

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Lyra was an unlikable cunt.

Damn thanks for sharing this. Loved how the Alzabo elixer acted as a final answer to the problem of succession, combined of course with the "abnormal path" he refers to here. Based on Sev's conversation with the phantom master and Triskele about the "highest" form of governance it seems that first and highest get synthesized in the Autarch since they can guarantee that the person of the monarch breeds true through the transmission of memory. For me this seemed pretty similar to Evola's idea of the king as an eternal center

>image search this pic
>2 day old reddit post
>twitter
>twitter
>twitter
>twitter
>twitter
You have to go back.

If you read his notes from the author he relieves some of this pressure, literally says that it is an imperfect translation and we don't even have words for many of the things on Urth

I've read all of books out so far and maybe it's due to my lack of experience with reading these kinds of books but Arya's character seems believable to me. She's young enough that she is capable of enduring hardship (children are remarkably resilient.)

I don't dislike Daenerys but I find her motivations to be rather unbelievable. She's probably the most tiresome character in the book. I have no problems with the Tyrion character. He's the smart guy (much to his father's chagrine, he's the one that inherited the steeliness and cunning to rule a land) in a world of brainlets.

I found the Greyjoy story to be kind of dumb. As far as I can tell, it's the story of a bunch of pirates. Avast ye matey but without the cliched pirate talk.

Martin's got to start tying the story threads together, though. They've exploded since the second or third book and unless the start wrapping things up, it would take 10 or more books to conclude the various substories. And yeah, I personally think he's going to die before he ever finishes the whole thing.

It's true, GRRM was a false prophet, a blue eyed king who cast no shadow, a mummer's dragon.

lol

Tolkein has put out more books posthumously than Martibetes has in the last 5 years.

Why the fuck are no Christians like this anymore?? Reverse image search shows that the only people talking about this are /pol/ and other assorted fringe reactionary groups, goddamn shame that this perspective has been forgotten

>Meanwhile, the same could be said for Aragorn. History and Destiny would both say he's the one to fight the Nazgul King
You can only have this opinion if you haven't actually read the books. Eowyn and Merry were destined by Mandos to kill the Witch King. Aragorn was destined to reforge the blade that was broken and earn his rightful place on the throne of Gondor. Nothing in the books ever makes any connection between Aragorn and the Witch King.

Is this a joke or did the person who made this really not understand the concept of an unreliable narrator?

Yes. I'd suggest watching the movie Excalibur, which is about King Arthur. It touches on the same ideas. I've heard that Jewish movie critics at the time said the movie was fascist because of the scene where Percival says the King and the land are one. Really this kind of authoritarianism long predates any kind of political ideology. This whole deal with calling things "fascist" is just a way to demonize Europeans and separate them from their natural order. And not just Europeans, but to separate all of humanity from natural order.

The third age is my top 10 games of all time.

>other races buy serious books
other races don't buy books

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>asians don't buy books
>indians don't buy books
>southern europeans don't buy books
>slavs don't buy books
>only us white anglo buy and read books

>>asians don't buy books
Wrong.

>>slavs don't buy books
Very wrong. Ever heard about Witcher? Slavs fantasy book genre very popular.

Banks already has. Amazon will save us, but not in the way we think.

Why are you lumping slavs and Southern Europeans in with all the non-readers? The person you're responding to didn't say that.

And yeah, non-European literature is either near non-existent or mostly complete trash in comparison. The best Asian literature is heavily influenced by Europeans, like Yukio Mishima.

Original trilogy will never be sullied, it's perfect and will remain so forevermore

This is one thing that SJWs will literally be unable to kill

I read shadow over innsmouth for the first time the other day and it honestly sucked ass

>muzzie shitholes
>commie shitholes
>african shitholes
>...and the villages of darkest Berkshire
lmao

Agreed. GRRM almost seems embarrassed that he's writing a low fantasy series. He's just too secular, materialistic, and progressive to see why fantasy is so appealing to readers despite being contrary to contemporary standards. He has to impose why magic returning is seen as a negative while rationality, logic, and science is the only way forward, why leaders have to be morally grey at best to be effective. And that religion and gods are still a negative impact even though the supernatural and magic is clearly real and religion would have stronger role in such a society. That women should lead despite not being qualified to do so because they were never trained or educated to lead such parts and are weaker than men in a society that values martial strength.

It all gets exhausting and it just seems GRRM can't accept the fact that his values are incompatible with the world he has written. It's honestly one of the few novels where I know most people who are aware of Westeros would never want to visit a place because it has all the negative aspects of real life, but none of the positive aspects of low fantasy.

GRRM doesn't understand medieval society at all. He can't help but view things in his 21st century progressive-liberal worldview.

>I would love if a good fantasy based on indian, amerinidan or african miths
Medieval fantasy is fun because it takes you back to simpler times. Most of the cultures you mention are still stuck in mud huts and superstition today, so making a fantasy story out of it is largely redundant.

>I'm sick to death of fantasy with a medieval european setting. I would love if a good fantasy based on indian, amerinidan or african miths existed but nooo always the same copy-pasted dragons and elves everywhere.
So write your own.
Fucking no one is stopping you.

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>except some of the races
The entire way we thought of dwarves, elves, halflings, orcs, etc. is defined by their traits in LotR. Dwarfs in DnD are greedy miners that are susceptible to being brought down by their greed (deurgar) because in LotR the dwarves were also greedy miners that brought upon their own downfall by seeking too many riches

Correct but only because sci-fi is just fantasy set in the future. Technology and magic are indistinguishable if you can't tell how either of them works.

Gurm isn't a feminist. All the women in his books are irredeemable thots and depicted as such. He virtue signals like a bitch on twitter to deflect from his deep seated misogyny.

based and semi-plausible conspiracypilled

>leaders have to be morally grey at best to be effective
Not true
Plenty of leaders were good people that succeeded for their reign, they just fucking died

Televangelist

The problem is nobody knows how to fucking write them whereas medieval fantasy had fucking tolkein to collect and establish and entire set of tropes/standards for the genre

Worldbuilding takes planning. Tolkien actually had a plan. Others don't. GoT books may not even ever finish properly as an author existence failure is extremely likely due to the snails pace at which he writes and the fact HBO is going to milk his mind to try and spawn money printing spin-offs that may or may not bomb.

Witch King > Night Cuck
Guy needed to be stabbed with an enchanted dagger or else he would have stayed immortal and killed Eowyn, making him being killed by a woman (whose father he killed) more poetic justice than gurl power. Actually fought on screen and uses a Morningstar, making him look even cooler.

>tolkien actually had a plan
No, Tolkein actually would just rewrite his entire book from the start when he finished it and constantly iterate things he didn't immediately like upon re-reading

They will cgi the characters away and the books will be treated Mein Kampf Tier.

Well the night cuck doesn't exist in the books so I'm not sure why you're posting in the author thread

The first adaption with Arnold was the best we'll ever get and it wasn't even close to faithful. Conan is the kind of man who will threaten to destroy a princess's kingdom after killing her brother and raping her on the bodies of her countrymen and it gets her wet just from him talking about it. There will never be a good Conan movie.

What's not to understand about that?

i read this a long time ago expecting something interesting and it's just a long, vague allegory stretched out into an incoherent rant. i don't know why people keep trying to shove an allegory into lotr when tolkien said over and over and over again that there isn't one. there's also a lot of puzzling claims that make me think he didn't read many of the books he mentioned

Reminds me of Whedon who also claims to be a feminist, but his IRL actions, especially his infidelity and claims he sexually harassed female actresses indicates he's faking it or misdirecting.

Give me time.

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It's not really worth reading after Memories of Ice, really. God, I wasted so much time reading this entire fucking series waiting for it to get that good again

There is fantasy sci-fi and realistic sci-fi. The distinction is one uses the technology and magic statement and proceeds to do magic that would break every real world law of physics ever while the latter tends to try very hard to not break any laws of physics and postulate realistic future scenarios where technology might look like magic to uneducated people but it actually still remains as grounded in real science as possible.

There is real technology in fiction which is just existing tech in fictional worlds. Then there is realistic technology that looks like magic to a cave man. Then there is real magic that looks like magic because it is just magic and to make it sci-fi you hand wave that it is "technology".

Please do

Yes that is part of planning to rehearse and iterate before publishing. Instead of the common ship it and try and patch things afterwards. Or the worst thing just change things afterwards by author's word of god even when it was not even remotely evident in the original work.

cause fantasy is literally mythologized euro history

orcs are moors

How much did Tolkein write? I thought it was just 4 books? How many pages or words total did this man write?

Tolkien will never be surpassed, he invented the wheel. Have there been more, arguably "better" inventions than the wheel? Sure, but none more significant.

I like knights castles wizards and dragons though.
What are cool things in those other myths? I am not too well read on them

>Gurm isn't a feminist.
He just a nice guy at his core.

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