Whoa whoa whoa, I just realized... If Captain America went back in time and lived out his life as NOT Captain America...

he went back in time right after he was frozen and lived in alternate timeline with peggy till assume up until her death. he then went back to the original timeline to give falcon the shield. the original timeline is never affected cause the pym particle timetravel cant do it. there is alternate timeline that have captain america as part of sheild i assume with peggy and howard and maybe his future knowledge prevents shit like hydra in shield

He created an alternate timeline when he went to the past. There, he probably thwarted Hydra before they could infest Shield, destroyed the Tesseract so Thanos could never succeed, and so on. Then he returned to the main timeline at some point after Peggy died of old age. The end.

Great. How would he return to the main timeline if the big time machine was destroyed AND the smaller version was never unattended?

the same way Cap and Stark went to 1970

This cap is from another timeline

is this incest?

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There's like a dozen different ways he could have returned.

Bucky knew what Cap was going to do, so the simplest interpretation is that he simply ported old Cap back a while earlier when Sam wasn't there. But there's many other options. For example, using a time machine in the alternate timeline once it's invented there, or even using the Time Stone.

if he returned to the timeline to give back the stones, then he doesn't have to worry about thanos since thanos went to the future and died.

He looks like Biden.

They were going with multiverse time travel rules. When you go to the past you create an alternate timeline and whatever you do in that timeline doesn't change your own timeline. That's why Nebula could kill another Nebula without setting off a paradox or why Thanos died in two different ways. The ending is what confused people because they made it look like Cap went back to past and just stayed there for decades until he gave the shield to Sam. To add to the confusion, the directors are saying Cap went to an alternate timeline and married Peggy while one of the screenwriters says it's a single timeline. It's a mess.

No because she was never related to him in the first place. Sharon is Peggy’s great niece, as in, the daughter of the child of a sibling of Peggy.

Captain America goes back to the past and sees peggy, this causes an alternate timeline, he lives out his life with peggy and she dies, Sam in this universe was cap, once he comes back the alternate timeline is erased as you cannot change the past.

Him coming back to the exact time at which he was supposed to be in the teleporter does this, he waits till the exact moment on the bench and appears there .

He does have to worry about Thanos in the timeline he spent with Peggy. Even if he specifically went to the past of the timeline where Thanos went to the future, it would only create another alternate timeline, where Thanos might not do the same thing. And if he does do the same thing, there could now be yet another new timeline where 2 Thanoses show up in the future and fuck up the Avengers.

It's best not to create new branches in already branched timelines, it can quickly become a huge mess. I presume Steve just went to the past of the original timeline, creating a single new branch.

If you can't follow what I'm saying in this post, it's probably best to leave the time travel talk.

it doesn't have to be an alternate timeline. him going bac was always the timeline they were in. he goes back after he hits the ice. past him stays in the ice while future him lives a long normal life with peggy. the split would onbly be caused if he went back and changed anything which he didnt because he is contnuing a time loop. the mcu timeline was always a timeline with a future steve living in the past while regular steve was on ice.

It doesn't explain how the old Nebula had the future memories of "prime" Nebula. You can't have it both ways. Either the timeline splits, like the Ancient One implies and Banner explains, or it's all the same timeline and they majorly fucked everything up.

This makes no sense. It would require a future version of Steve to return to travel to the past, and traveling to the past (at least with pym particles) automatically causes an alternate timeline to be created. That alone destroys your explanation. There can be no time loops.

the mcu is an alternate timeline from the get go

>It doesn't explain how the old Nebula had the future memories of "prime" Nebula.
No, they do explain that. It had nothing to do with time travel. It's because she's a robot and their networks were linked.

old nebual downloaded new nebuals memories from their shared wi fi

The MCU solution to time travel possibly does allow for time loops. You wouldn't be changing the past because the time loop always existed and couldn't be changed.

However, something else doesn't allow for that particular time loop: Cap's personality. He would NEVER allow Hydra to infiltrate Shield, especially when his wife is the director.

That's why it has to have been an alternate timeline. Otherwise, Cap's character is ruined.

the only reason thanos went to the future is because he found out about it. Other "thanoses" will never know about time travel.

That still doesn’t work. Old Steve is the same Steve that left. That means Steve went to the 40s, created another timeline by proxy, lived for several years in that timeline, and came back. It’s that simple. The only plot hole is how he managed to return without coming through the main portal.

>The MCU solution to time travel possibly does allow for time loops. You wouldn't be changing the past because the time loop always existed and couldn't be changed.

Give me one instance where this happened, and take into consideration that it is explicitly stated in Endgame that going back in time creates a new timeline. The “as long as you don’t change anything” argument is null because simply being present in the past changes things.

>The MCU solution to time travel possibly does allow for time loops. You wouldn't be changing the past because the time loop always existed and couldn't be changed.

I disagree there. You would be changing the past just by your mere presence. I understand time loops but it's just cleaner if they just made it alternate timelines.

THERE WERE NO FUCKING TIME LOOPS GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

he's only the same in the sense that both steves exist in two timelines that are almsot identical.

He went back AFTER all those events transpired. Essentially as soon as cap crashes, future cap arrives and lives with peggy in secret and let's the world events happen as they should. At this time there are TWO caps in the world, one who has yet to be unfrozen, and another who is pretending to not exist so that he doesnt fuck up the timeline.
What's so hard about this?

There are three possibilities. One is Cap went to the past, created an alternate timeline, and cucked alternate Cap and Peggy's would-be husband with alternate Peggy. The other is Cap went to his own past and cucked himself with original Peggy and hid his existence from the entire history of the MCU. The last is the Back to the Future scenario where he only cucks Peggy's would-be husband. In all three scenarios, someone's getting cucked.

Caps personality would prioritize maintaining the timeline over risking the future.
He would probably say that he has no way of knowing the worse consequences of trying to prevent the events of winter soldier

I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself.

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Great theory bud, except literally everyone knows who Captain America is, so unless Steve lived in total seclusion in fucking Siberia or some shit, then this is completely implausible.

It’s the exact same Steve, dumbass. He says he returned the stones.

There is no timeline to “maintain.” Returning the stones keeps those timelines safe, but they’re still alternate timelines.

HAHAHAHA LE EPIN SIMPLY LE EPIN!!! I WATCH LE REDLETTERMEDIA ALSO!!! LE TOPPEST OF KEKS XDDD

Is it really unrealistic that a covert agent married to another covert agent might be able to stay hidden while the only people trying to find him are exclusively looking in the ocean?

If it's an alternate timeline that he is living in, then he wouldnt have shown up at the time machine.

You have much to learn about time travel, friend. Stable time loops don't change the past. Agents of Shield already did a whole season about this exact thing. They did cop out at the end and break the loop though, which was a huge asspull but can now be explained in that it simply would have created an alternate timeline as by Endgame rules.

Just saw the movie End Game, what a piece of sh**!! This is what happens when Hollywood gets a hold of great comic material. The movie was mediocre at best till the moment when it is said "Time Travel", was their source material 1950's comics? From that moment on it was cheeseball after cheeseball. Bravo to the movie execs for getting millions of people to go and watch this crap.

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he still had the suit retard.

wouldn't she know her great aunt is married to Captain America

Your explanation is non-canon conjecture. Agents of SHIELD is barely canon. The fundamentals of time travel established in Endgame make “time loops” impossible. When you go “to the past,” that past becomes an alternate timeline, because the mere presence of someone who doesn’t belong in that time changes things. Loops cannot start if that’s how it works.

Her great aunt ISN’T married to Captain America in the main timeline. The Peggy of the main timeline married some other dude, grew old, and died. Steve married the Peggy of an alternate timeline, because going back to the past creates an alternate timeline. We have no idea what happens in that timeline. All we know is that Steve got married, got old, and returned to the main timeline. Sharon may not even be born there.

If the stones where to all be returned to exactly when they were taken, then while wasn't the blue stone in loki's staff? Why wasn't the tesseract still together? How are these going to be put back exactly? And for bonus, I thought the stones couldn't be held by mere mortals but Clint Barton holds one after Black Widow's end game.

Stable time loops don't "start". They were always there and cannot be changed. I Am Very Smart, I know all about every form of time travel in fiction and how they work together. Alternate timelines and stable time loops can coexist, and do so in some of the more cerebral and autistically meticulous explorations of time travel, such as Homestuck

What exactly does that prove?

Different stones have different effects on those who hold them.

Loops have to have some triggering-point, you idiot. Steve would have to go back to the past no matter what, and in Endgame, going back to the past creates an alternate timeline, no matter what.

It means he could have gone to an alternate timeline and returned to the main one without coming directly through the portal.

They werent to be returned exactly WHERE they were taken, they were to be returned exactly WHEN they were taken.
The timelines do not function without their infinity stones in existence, and so all cap had to do was go to the right time and just drop the stone on the ground

The scene did not give off that vibe at all.
It's possible but the structure implied that he waited until the exact right moment and just hung out near the time machine waiting for them to figure it out

Ok mr smart man, what if the whole story of multiple time lines is made up to convince people that changes made by time travelling won't affect the 'current' or 'real' time line but they do. So if and when we can time travel no one will know about the changes being made. People are born at different times and places, or not born at all. What would you say to the possibility that time travel does effect a singular time line?

Tried too hard

So in other words capt going back in time made 5 new timelines plus one current time line where there are no stones. How does the current timeline even exist without any stones?

Thanos only shrank the ones he had. I thought ant man was going to get them or something then they used the movie making magic card, Time Travel.

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I imagine he arrived a few months later after his disappearance, so at that point in history there are two Steves: one fucking Peggy and one still frozen in the Arctic. That makes it into a paradox, or maybe not, depending on how much Peggy remembers during her Alzheimer years, thus making it into a closed time loop.
The true paradoxes come with Loki’s disappearance and Past Thanos dying in the future; now they ended up with TWO time traveler paradoxes. Three if Peggy tells future Steve about her life with past Steve.

Impossible because of grandfather paradoxes.

Loops do not need to have an origin. Learn more about time travel.

There aretwo steves in the main universe. A old one and one that became captain america

Literally stop trying to make sense of it.
The explanation given in the movie is absolute nonsense and is only meant to convey that the mechanics dont matter and wont have inferred consequences

Don't go into threads without reading them and make a complete ass of yourself by spouting completely retarded shit that has been debunked by a dozen different people in the thread already.

Purposely changing things in the past is the thing that creates paradoxes, accidental changes can be handwaived away due to a closed time loop.

I imagined he just lived his life in obscurity not changing the timeline with any major actions arriving as an old man

there are no alternate timelines. Only when somebody fucks with the timestone

Ok retard, explain how old Cap hopped between “alternate” timelines, as you say.

He didn't make 5 new timelines, because the Ancient One explains that stone-less, broken timelines get erased when the stones are returned. The Avengers made 5 new timelines when they initially went back in time though - Cap doesn't delete those, he just prevents them from splitting a second time.

The current timeline still works because, as the directors explained, Thanos only reduced the stones to dust, but they still technically exist. He didn't snap them out of existence, only atomized them.

All the time travel makes perfect sense if you're not a brainlet.

Does it mean he always stayed scrawny and never served in WWII?

Read the thread fucklard. I'm not here to spoonfeed you information that has been posted 10 times already.

What the fuck happened to lurk more? Kill yourself.

You are a retard.

You are a retard. Kill yourself.

That kind of time travel isn’t exclusive to the stones, or shouldn’t be. Imagine if you went back to the past and took Lee Harvey Owswald’s rifle to the present for reasons. As long as you returned it to the same exact moment in the past and nobody knew about it, the timeline won’t diverge.

Imagine getting so defensive when people point out plotholes in your capeshit.

Again I say, 5 new timelines and one current. He never travelled back to the current timeline's past so her explanation is wrong, he starts 5 new lines that don't intersect with the current timeline. But seeing him old at the end would prove that he does go back and effect the current timeline, so either he was already there in the background and only showed himself at the end or he did change history and no one noticed.

The primary timeline always had primary Cap going back at this point to live his life with Peggy.

The primary timeline always had Cap as Peggy's secret husband after he time-travels back after the events of End Game. This can't possibly happen any other way or else that's a diverged timeline. What happened is what was supposed to happen. Old man Cap was there because he knew when and where they sent him back.

Timelines diverge from any interaction with them, idiot. It's called the butterfly effect. You would create a new timeline that is almost identical, but slightly divergent.

Returning the stones isn't about preventing time splits. It's about preventing the timeline from being completely corrupted, as the Ancient One shows. All timelines need to have all 6 infinity stones in them to be stable.

>telling someone to kill themselves while youre defending a literal childrens movie

holy shit

They are not plot holes, you are just retarded. And I and others explained the mistakes of the retarded people the first six times in this thread. When you make more posts saying the exact same retarded shit that was already explained, then I have no more patience for you.

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A man can only take so much stupid shit from retards before running out of patience.

Agreed, but someone will notice the different states the stones are in, ref ('114133396')

t. never watched austin powers

Agreed, but that makes the tv show Agent Carter kinda creepy

Screenwriter has said he thinks old cap was just there all along, Directors said he grew old in an entirely different timeline, then once becoming old traveled back to the main timeline and went to that bench

Even they can't agree on it.

Factually wrong, retards. And confirmed by the directors of the movie for retards like you who didn't infer it from the movie itself.

The screenwriter admitted to not understanding the time travel, which was handled by other people.

The screenwriter's stupidity lead to the confusing/misleading explanations by the Ancient One though.

wow you debate like a 12 year old, Calling people retards isn't proving your point

But he didn't come back through the machine if he was in a different timeline so how did he get into primary timeline? He had to have been present in that timeline at the bench or at least nearby until younger Cap went back.

Read the thread, notice how many times I and others patiently explained to people how it works, and how people keep popping into the thread, don't bother reading it, and make retarded wrongful claims. Then realize why I just cut to the chase and call you retarded at this point. Why should I repeat myself even more times?

whats confusing or misleading about what she said? If she gave up the time stone and they lost, then dormammu would've won in her timeline.

READ THE FUCKING THREAD

wow

>instead of clicking a post number and pressing send, he writes paragraphs to tell people to go search through a thread he himself is calling retarded to find a post by anonymous

yikes

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Her explanation made millions of retards believe that the only thing that can cause a split in the timeline is removing a stone.

Is confusing but there's only 2 possinle answers:
He somehow returned to tmhis same dimension but in past, and lived as NotCaptain with Peggy Cucking hismelf or cucking someone else, and the he just walk to that bench that day.
Or: He lived in other dimension, and one day Peggy dies, so he decided to return to the samw spot a couple of seconds later from where he was supposed to return.

It:s just thay dude, at the end doesn't matter he is old now and Captain America is a nigger now.

The machine ain't shit Tony and Cap traveled to another time without it.

Fine, yikes accepted and I already did what you said But knowing the retards on this board, they aren't going to follow links to other posts.

He Slided from his new timeline to the original.
With Stark, Pim and Richards being around is it so hard to imagine?

those theories are all complete shit lmao

>could be this, could be that, no evidence of any of these things to contradict this clear piece of evidence of which timeline he lived with Peggy in (the primary one)

Whoever said that the timelines were created when the Advengers went back is right, sorry for saying it was capt

Retard detected. They made the time travel in this movie so simple yet somehow it eludes you completely. Cap went back and stayed with peggy, creating a new timeline. Clearly came back once she died with or without bucky's assistance as he knew exactly what he was going to do before he did it.

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It's just Marvel's version of King Crimson you idiots
It's all the same timeline

This is what happens when Hollywood makes a movie about something they don't know. It is simple time correlation, any change to a timeline creates a new timeline. So capt was always there in the current timeline. Also capt doesn't age as fast as other people so he must have gone really far back to look as old as he did.

>featuring time travel
>being full of plot holes
name a more iconic duo in movie writing.

Even though it's not so hard to understand : it's impossible to change your own past, on your timeline or on another timeline you've been, you can only change its present or future, otherwise you create a branch, a parrallel universe. It's the Trunks plot in Dragon Ball.

>It's all the same timeline
the directors said you're wrong

Extreme brainlet detected. Talking sub 60 IQ here.

He was also okay with his best friend murdering his other best friend's parents that one time.

>sub 60 IQ
just say nigger.

They didn't even need the machine since the suits are capable of self contained time travel. The "machine" was just a plot device so professor hulk had something to do and thanos can fly his ship through.

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His best friend was brainwashed.

Sorry for saying 5 new timelines and one current, it could have been but capt showing up as old capt implies that one of the timelines that the Avengers went too was their current timeline, so whichever stone capt brought back exists twice in that timeline.

Thanks for pointing out another cheeseball

You could argue it was needed to send them out of their own timeline, but once out, they could hope around on their own until they came back.

What

i'm convinced people are just pretending to understand this movie's time travel shit and memeing because theres no way i am retarded to the point where none of this makes sense to me.

Ok there aren't 5 timelines, how many places in time did they go too? I think it was 3? But anyways, 2 of them had to be different, whether they were created or always there, is unknown. But one had to be the current one where old capt was always there.

Don't worry, its done in a cinematic way, its not meant to make any sense

He went backnto just after he was frozen and lived his life. Frozen Cap was still there as well, and was thawed and did all the stuff that led up to endgame.
It's even implied that Cap had ALWAYS gone back in time and married Peggy. You never see her husband in the movies, which would make sense if future cap wants to keep a low profile.

There is nothing complex about it.
Going back means every event you experience is a branching timeline.
Leaving the timeline does not mean it stops existing once it has been created.
The only constant is that there is one set of stone per timeline since those effectively are the keystones for the laws of time space and everything else.
The GPS invented by Tony allow them to go back to a specific branch once its created, which is necessary because they needed to put the stones back where they come from.
The machine is just a set point in a given timeline to return to, not using the machine means you can still go back but time will have gone by naturally. Conversely, going backwards is perfectly smooth since its just a matter of using the quantum realm and aiming for a given date. It therefore does not require a machine, since the machine just established a relative time loop for the travelers as well as an easy point to which they can return.
Going to a given timeline is easy if you know the coordinates - hence the GPS, and that is how Cap went back. He had the return point, he knew when it happened and he had the people in that timeline to ensure it would happen. He just used a different machine and deliberately skipped the time he was expected by going the long away around it.
Thereafter he just needed to be called back provided he actually wanted to return to his new home.

Cap was never always there, he went back, created a branch where he lived and grew old. Then he came back to the main timeline to drop the shield.
There are at least 4 new timelines
The one where Loki escapes and Banner tells the Ancient one that giving up the timestone was necessary..
The one where Tony gives a few hints to his father and they stole some pym particles.
The one where Cap lived, which is different.
And the one 2014 Thanos came from, where he does not exist anymore.
Thor in Asgard is unclear as to the changes it did, but it probably qualifies as well.

And whatever stones he took back into the current timeline I guess could have been the same stones that always existed in the current timeline, so during the time the Advengers bring them forward in the current timeline till when capt takes them back, there exist pairs of those stones in the same universe, doesn't seem to make a dif I guess.

He must have used the time stone then, in which case he could have Dr Who'd for years and years then popped in at the end to give away the shield. Banner had set all the Coordinates so if capt went to any other timeline than those, he had to have used the time stone

it not only doesn't make sense, but betrays the character. amazing, isn't it?

Also I think the Advengers only go to 3 spots in time (I just saw the movie so I not sure). How every many places they go too to get the stones is the number of timelines involved. If capt used the time stone too Dr Who it then came back at the end then the current timeline stays intact. But if one of the spots in time the Advengers go too is in their own timeline and capt returns the stones to that timeline and stays (doesn't Dr Who it), then he had to have stayed in the current timeline. This timeline had to be the furthest back in time they went cause he was so old.

I understood it 100% from just watching the movie. It's not very complicated. You are probably retarded.

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You're all fucking dumb holy shit

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You are retarded. Read the thread.

You are retarded and so is that chart. As confirmed by the directors as well.

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I'd fuck up a timeline if I had chance

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But the *only* alternate reality is the one where cap lives his life with Peggy. All the other timelines are healed (happen the same way as mainline) when cap goes back in time with the stones and hammer at the end

Another collection of interview answers from the directors, proving you wrong.

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Wrong and retarded. See and There are at minimum 7 different timelines now, and possibly more if yet more splits are created when returning to the same timeline.

>movie spoon feeds you on how time travel works in this universe
>still cant follow it
why are you like this guys. He went back in time, put the stone back, lived his full life then came back. a better question would be did he put the stone back exactly when he was supposed to? If so then he created an alternate time line along with loki escaping.

please stop using time travel in movies

you forgot that loki escapes with the tesseract THEN the go even further back in time from that point. that flat out fucked that time line up

He created a "new" branch for every timeline he returned to, but he also deleted one branch from each in the process, as the Ancient One says that returning an infinity stone erases the "dark future" of that timeline where it's missing a stone and the universe goes off balance. So there's only one timeline where Loki escapes, not two.

The timeline where the tesseract isn't returned but the stone is has to be a different timeline than the movies. The timeline where loki's staff isn't returned but the stone is also has to be in either the same timeline as the missing tesseract or its own. This proves that one or more of the timelines the Advengers go too are different. The way the great bald one explains it in the movie is fine but a simple explanation (that has been around forever).

Agreed

yea thats what i thought. I dont know why people think this movies version of time travel is convoluted. Its literally laid out and made very simple

An epic battle with Thanos for the stones would have been so much better

You think that´s a plot hole? Please. Try this up for size. Capeshit does not exist in the MCU. What do you think your MCU counterpart is ranting about in their version of Yea Forums right now if endgame doesn´t exist? What the fuck do they even watch?

People are just retarded. It's driving me up the wall to be honest. Even one of the writers on the movie didn't understand it himself.

You mean exactly like Infinity War?

He did not need to. He travelled to 2014, 2013, 2012, 1970 then 1945.
Corrected the branches then moved backwards one final time to Peggy.
This created a different timeline where he just lived parallel to the main timeline while not being in it. According to the Q&A, he did have his own adventures there.
Then he reached the time he was meant to go back, the long way around, used a machine made by Stark/Banner/Pym/ whoever else, dropped the shield and went back home to enjoy his retirement while his counterpart in that timeline got to carry on or do something else.

But doens't he cuck the himself who's in the timeline he travelled to?

It would have been better than time travel crap. Bet they got the idea watching the 1978 Superman movie, that didn't work then. Its just a weak plot device used to make easy script work. If they had something that made the Advengers work for it, it would have been so much better.

You're wrong and this contradicts winter soldier
Plus the movie talks about REALITIES, plural

"He did not need to. He travelled to 2014, 2013, 2012, 1970 then 1945"

Didn't they get some of the stones in the same timeline? I thought they only went to 3, but I forgot that they also went back to Pym's lab.

They went back as teams, I thought there were 3. Pym's timeline could have been one of those 3. So it could be 3 or 4 timelines of which one is the current movie timeline.

Because the tesseract and loki's staff weren't returned the way they left, means that 1 or 2 of the timelines is different. So there must be more than 2 timelines and no greater than 5.

All the stones are from the same universe but the changed stones aren't
=2 timelines
All the stones are from the same universe but the changed stones are from 2 other timelines
=3 timelines
The 3 spots the Advengers go too are separate and Pym's is one of them
=3 timelines
The 3 spots the Advengers go too are separate and Pym's isn't one of them
=4 timelines
The 3 spots the Advengers go too are separate and Pym's isn't one of them and they are all different than the movie universe
=5 timelines

Also each stone is from a different universe and they are all different from the movie universe.
=6 timelines

But this is unlikely cause I think the teams only go back to 3 spots?

If he went to live his life in a different reality why was he in the un-snap reality at the end of the movie. Also how did his new reality deal with Thanos' snap? Isnt there another Captain America that's in love with Peggy in the new reality? Man my head is starting to hurt thinking about it.

This movie let me down so bad

>Cap's face when having to see little Sharon at family gatherings

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No, each time they go back its a different timeline because their going back will change the course of time for each step back.
They got the power stone and I believe the soul stone in 2014 - one timeline.
The Aether in 2013 - another timeline.
The mind and time stone in 2012, yet another.
And the space stone in 1970. for a total of 4. It was meant to be three but they fucked up and Loki got away with the Tesseract, hence the need to go back to 1970, get the space stone and more pym particles.
Then Cap went back for the final time. to 1945. And that is the final timeline created..
Every stone comes from their past timeline branching out because they take it out, and stabilised because the stones are brought back to ensure that their function and role is maintained. There can only be one set per timeline, no more.

Can anyone AT ALL explain to me who's fucking shield he gave to Falcon at the end?

Cap A goes back i time, minus a shield cause Thanos fucked his one.

Cap A lives sweet life, boning Betty big boobs, and meets back at the cabin with his a shield intact? Whose shield?

I've seen some people say Cap A went back and lived a covert life as 'John Smith' and kept his mouth shut about everything, hydra, bucky etc etc while Cap B, frozen in ice, proceeds to do everything Cap B does throughout the saga in general.

But it doesn't explain where Cap A gets the shield. He can't have taken it from Cap B, cause Cap B NEEDS the shield to do all the stuff he did in the movies.

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