Deux ex machina every five seconds: the movie

The time travel doesn’t really make sense though, lol. It does for the sake of progressing the plot of the movie but strictly speaking it doesn’t really make sense. I guess if they create divergent timelines at each point they travelled to then it kinda does, but they would have probably kinda fucked up some of those timelines.

The bit with Captain America didn't make sense though. He appears on the bench as an old man — does that mean he lived through all the events of the other movies just chilling as an old dude?

>speaking about their emotions and demonstrating their emotions through their actions doesn't count
>characters need to speak directly into the camera and explain every nuance of their feelings
Nice autism friend

>The bit with Captain America didn't make sense though. He appears on the bench as an old man — does that mean he lived through all the events of the other movies just chilling as an old dude?

Yeah. Why does that not make sense? Future cap goes back in time and lifes life as a normal person. Its not as if none of the things he did while he was younger never happened.

this is a bad movie

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Yes, and he let Hydra take over SHIELD, he let 9/11 happen, the invasion of New York City by Loki, all the horrible events in real life and in marvel continuity. He let them happen so he could be married like a lil bitch.

I loved this movie and stopped coming here so it wouldnt be ruined by you cry babies. What have been the complaints? Tearing the conceit of each scene and focusing on the plot logic of each and every action rather than the thematic or emotional aspects that they exist to prop up?
I can only imagine the nitpicking for Endgame is as insane sounding as it gets.

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Captain America is a selfish bitch who doesn’t care about other people’s suffering.

I guess I’m just not really clear on the timelines. Would his wife have already been dead by the time the other version of himself was woken up or whatever? Did he have to take on a new identity to avoid being noticed by the government? Did he download BLACKED porn in his old age?

oh ok. So in three months everyone will be retroactively defending it as in character and consistent when evaluated. Just like Star Lord.

Also, doesn't it kind of create a timeloop or something? Because cap a goes back while cap b is dormant. Cap a is married and grows old, cap b eventually wakes up and becomes an avenger. Cap b goes through the events of endgame, travelling back in time. Cap c now is dormant, while cap b is back in time getting married and so on ad infinitum. Or am i being a brainlet? Ive never really contemplated time travel in much detail.

How/why did Captain Marvel rescue Tony?

This is a big plothole, 2 billions in a couple of weeks, I think the Russos didn't think this throughfully.

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yeah, and even that reddit tier crap show doesn't use time travel shenanigans because is just Lazy writing.

Brah Tony is literally mad as fuck as the beginning of the movie. Endgame def has issue but you’re being fucking weird about this.

She literally just pulled over for a broken down car, the MCU establishes space is just Earth highways.

They gave iron man a daughter to give the " never seen a marvel movie before Endgame audience", the brain dead masses who watched most if not all Marvel movies and still didnt form any sort of connection or attachment to characters, and little kids who would be effected emotionally by seeing a kid's father die, a reason to feel something when tony died. They didnt need to give Tony a daughter.

Endgame is a movie made to draw in everyone, caring not for a good story or a good conclusion. Paying no respect to the movies and characters which paved the way for it.

Tony had a daughter because it was showing how he lived a full and satisfied life, you're partially right but seemingly just want to be called a genius for cracking the code that movies exist to draw in audiences. Do you want a medal? It was also consistent with the themes of the movie and character arcs everyone went through, and the last film implied Pepper was going to have a child so using the time travel to emotionally connect in this way is clever and you come off as a bitter elitist complaining for the sake of it. Your criticisms dont amount to improving the story in any way and you're not special for boldy claiming MARVEL JUST WANTS BUTTS IN SEATS GUYS! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

Their time travel "rules" are broken, but the writers failed to realize it. By allowing travelers to re-enter timelines they "borrowed" from, they unintentionally made it possible to bootstrap infinite anything into existence, even people. That wouldn't be so bad if the "geniuses" figuring all the "rules" out hadn't failed to realize it and stressed over the "limited" supply of Pym particles.

They also screwed up and made it seem like it was urgent they return the items quickly, which is a complete non-issue when you're just re-entering their timeline where you previously did.

it could make sense. IT derailed with Cap

Oh nice, you agree. Only thing is, im not simply saying Marvel wants butts in seats im saying the addition of tony having a child was bullshit. Okay they hinted at it in IW, doesnt mean it isnt a superficial emotional connection.
Thats all im saying. It would have been nice if they focused more on a cohesive story, with a sensible plot, instead of overloading the movie with weak emotional moments or elements, like tonys daughter, that really stupid fight between hawkeye and widow, and the ending with cap and peggy.
All superficial emotional garbage.
You were taken in by it i assume, i mean thats why youre so upset im pointing it out, but i thought it was all pretty lame. Id rather iron man do cool shit and not just bitch about keeping a kid i dont care about.

I love when you faggots try soo hard to shit on something just to be contrarian as fuck. Its obvious you dont actually know what the fuck your saying, you just want (You)s to somehow jutisfy your excistance.

Fun movie, going to be looked at as a masterpiece for years to come. Deal with it

this is exactly why Snyders films grate on people, there plenty to show how each character suffered and changed

Yeah I was taken in by it but I also have a perspective that maybe you arent considering??? All of the Avengers relationships and inner conflicts poetically shine light on the entire situation they find themselves in, after each emotional revelation the film cleverly cuts to a pair of characters who have yet to learn the lesson the last two did, creating interesting observations from the viewer. The Thanos comics the movies draw inspiration from are about questioning how we would handle divinity, and I find it super interesting how the MCUs adaptation of this is to say we can't and it's ok. Or maybe not interesting but heartwearming and humbling, so im not in your boat with wishing it was more of a tight plot, this is the beauty of superhero comics and im just happy its been broght to film.
For these reasons and this mindset I still defend Tony's kid lmao

It's literally the only movie to have ever gotten time travel correct according to physics. Specifically the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics; which is the only interpretation of quantum mechanics that allows time travel to be possible; you stupid fuck.

Cap's time travel doesn't make sense though. That's where it fails because once he branched off in the past, his old self wouldn't be able to come back to that timeline.

>Stark looking at picture of Peter to fuel his motivation to go save the world
>His complete nervous breakdown at the complex as soon as he gets back
>Peter approaching him as he dies

Yeah they really needed a montage of Iron Man just crying over pictures of Spiderman and him telling the camera "I'm sad".

Mostly talking about how time travel doesnt work right as if anybody has a clue.

>expecting any sense from capeshit

I turned off my brain before the film began and guess what, I fucking enjoyed it.

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I honestly can't believe they opted for time travel when an element from the comics story would have made far more sense. In essence, the comics story had all the snapped souls residing with a sort of timeless pocket dimension within the Soul Gem. One of the protagonists, a guy called Adam Warlock, incorporated that into his Master Plan, where he one-ups the Big Guy by not just making getting caught was part of it, getting *killed* was. He had worn the Soul Gem for years and had a deep understanding of it. He used it to create disharmony among the other gems, briefly rendering them incapable of working together and allowing the heroes an opening.

They could have done some really cool shit with that using some of the more mystical types like Wanda and Thor joining Strange inside the Soul Stone to look for the snapped heroes, rally them together, and battle the consciousness of the Soul Stone for control. You could even have them discover that Vision is still alive in there, having taken up residence in the Mind Stone.

Examples of the movie cutting from one pair to another who havent "gotten it yet"?

The movie didnt explore divinity at all, it was one scene, thanos saying the gems would tempt. Any other examples of the film exploring divinity? Cause thats all i can come up with. And if one scene "exploring" that theme was good enough to say the entire FILM explored that theme, well..i dunno what thats about..but seriously give me some insight on your perspective.

I'm not trying all that hard. It's a bit lackluster as a finale.

Sounds better than what we got user.

This

The Marvel movies have never been masterclass of cinema, they were fun movies with reoccuring likeable characters and some great comic booky action. Why is everyone trying to over analyze movies with
aliens, magic, time travel, all powerful rocks, and other countless stupid shit?

This is right. Cap would not land in the past of the timeline he came from, but rather in a parallel universe that lies in the past.

says (You)

most comic book finales never work out nearly as well as this movie did. Nor do most franchise sagas either, most times the hype always outwieghs the end result. They did a great job bringing almost 20 movies to a solid close. You just had your sights set too high, get over yourself

Wrong. They fucked up by letting them return to alt timelines once they'd left them. That should not be possible on your own timeline. John Byrne nailed this perfectly all the way back in the 70s. They could have followed the example he set, but instead they fucked it up trying to have their cake and eat it, too.

Following their "rules" introduces a variation on the bootstrap paradox, something distinctly impossible in a multiverse scenario.

It was far, *far* better.

Because it wasnt handled well, because everyone is making a huge deal out of this movie and calling it culturally significant, which it is in many ways, and since it is a big deal in modern culture it should absolutely make some fucking sense, if it doesnt and itsnt called out then other studios will see they dont need to try either. Then you have a continuous drop in quality in all films.

I had my sights set on it being within spitting distance of the comics. It wasn't even close.

Dude, non of the movies follow the books at all. Are you high? In the Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos is some incel who cant get no action from Lady Death so he kills half the universe to show he's a nice guy. Nu-Thanos is unironically better in almost every way

Well said. I'm done making excuses for bad storytelling. Thry had 22 films to flesh this out, make it something truly compelling and memorable, instead they gave us nothing but half-baked time travel, member berries, and shallow sentimentality at every opportunity.

It was handled well. When you bring time travel into any movie and some 30 characters all sharing screen time, no matter what, things are going to get muddled up. Again its a comic book movie, not an accurate sci fi drama

>caps grief counseling
Fuckin hated that Russo fag

Infinity War >> Endgame

People have pointed it out a million times already, but Thanos was the first interesting villain in MCU and they completely fucked him up in this movie. Boring piece of shit.

Maybe try reading it at some point before you criticize it. It goes way, way deeper than that.

What makes it worse is that they had the perfect stand-in for Death at their disposal the entire time, but since they've been half-assing since Phase 2, it never occurred to them they might find a way to give Thanos an infatuation with a *proxy* for Death.

You guys wouldn't be so quick to praise if you actually knew what they deprived you of by playing it safe, cynical, and low-effort at every conceivable turn.

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The comics get time travel *better* than this shit, and they've been doing it since at least 1974.

I think it did, maybe divinity is the wrong word but each Avengers movie has a running theme of power and who deserves to control it. Shield, Hydra, Thanos, now just the Avengers in a room deciding who is gonna snap. It's just a humbling and simplistic message that even our heroes struggle with grandiosity, seek humility, the comfort of friends and family. After risking everything, losing eveything, the quest to find meaning in their especially insane world is interesting to me.

One example, every time it cuts to hawkeye and Blackwidow's mission its only after the virtues of being an honest superhero are challenged by another sub plot's story. So to me thats what I mean by sometimes it comes off as poetic, like hawkeye's introduction when the guy he's killing looks around at the empty street and calls him insane. Anyway I like the movie a whole lot.

It was not. Heres a tip, when you feel the need to focus on so many characters, dont add a tricky element like time travel into it.
Honestly, it shouldve focused on two teams, og avengers and new avengers, mainly on the original team.
The final battle shouldnt have been this mess of everyone vs everyone, it shouldve been the main avengers vs thanos. Nothing more nothing less.

Doesnt need to be 100% scientifically accurate but endgame was a mess. You can like it all you want but dont ignore its flaws.

Whats funny is you actually come across as the dumbass here talking out your ass. Thanos loves death because at that point in the comics he was literally insane, lonely, and resurrected from the dead. It was almost like a mid life crisis where he was looking for someone's aproval, so this relationship would make no sense with the context that Thanos and Death are new characters.

Yeah, but the fact of the matter is they absolutely *could* have pulled a role reversal quite easily if they'd come into this with a story instead of a production schedule.

Imagine a story that could have started way the hell back in Thor 2, with it being revealed that Hela, refusing to stop acquiring souls for her realm, had been exiled to Midgard like Thor, stripped of much of her power and accompanied by Skurge, making her essentially an amalgam of Hela and the Enchantress.

In this scenario, Hela is in possession of the Soul Stone unbeknownst to Odin. She's seeking a way back into her realm, and that's what brings Thanos to her attention. Instead of a well-intentioned culler of worlds like some half-ass Galactus, but just an exceptionally powerful space pirate, possibly even a Reaver.

That integrates them both into a running narrative and gives you ample opportunity to develop them as they seek a way to tie Hela's realm to Midgard, fill it with the souls of the dead, and kick off a *real* Ragnarok.

Thing is, with how shitty endgame was handled, every last one of us who can see the flaws and arent afraid to critique endgame, we could all come up with a much better story.

Ok but you're now entering the writer territory where they sit in a room for months and logically determine which character would do what. Thanos in the MCU and comics would not give a shit about Hela, she is just a sadistic conquerer who poses a threat if anything. Death as a passive entity is the idea Thanos loves and they say in interviews upfront that they are afraid to introduce abstract characters yet and if they did like I said it wouldnt logically work.

The thing is this more heart felt and personal approach instead of epic infinity war 2 lord of the rings superhero style invites more movies while giving the audience a warm sense of closure. This is the best and basically only approach to sucha movie, and if you take issue with that then you take issue with the source material and the conceit of the MCU. For example you dont really even give a shit about death, you just think it sounds cool and want something other than what we got.

yeah, 'writer territory' in Hollywood is just like your typical anime plot shit: the fans wants something to happen so we write based in situations and happenings... then we fill the blanks with bullshit nonsense.

The ending was super comfy

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Yet she shared those highways with Thanos, his army of genocidal fanatics, and his fuckhuge ship for twenty years while she was out there "protecting other planets," yet she'd never even heard of him. Convenient.

No. I want a motivation for Thanos that's consistent with the comics. The movies aren't even close. It doesn't just miss the mark, it turns him into a well-intentioned retard. I full well understand they're afraid to introduce abstract entities. They should be. They've dodged the metaphysical at every chance they get. Shit, Asgardians aren't even *really* gods, not in the comics sense, at least.

Stop defending them for chasing money instead of playing to their core audience. They're in the process of trying the same thing with Star Wars, and people like you are the reason why. You'll defend them at all costs. You'll do it while they butcher character after character, discard theme after theme, fuck up concept after concept, and your only excuse is sentimentality. That's fucking pathetic.

>The phantom of 'why didn't they just use time travel' now haunts over the MCU

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People like me? Are you looking for a fucking cause to fight against online?? I read comic books and I like a fucking movie, you come off like we're talking about somehting important, get a life
youtube.com/watch?v=UZW5qWU4GiI

The first heist shouldve been more pym particles, i mean, ffs

It *is* important. The fact that you don't see how or why says all I'll ever need to know. I wanted movies that brought people into the comics world, not a melon-balled corpse of it.

well shit

With the bullshit way they set their rules up, you don't need another heist.

Professor Hulk's Recipe for Infinite Pym Particles:

1) Start with 2 canisters, one to get you to the 70s and back just in case Pym's being an asshole and tells you to fuck off.
2) Convince him to give you any number greater than two canisters.
3) Travel back to your present.
4) Wait any arbitrary length of time. Let's say one minute.
5) Travel back to your previous arrival.
6) Take all the canisters.
7) Travel back to your present.
8) Repeat Steps 4-7 as desired.
9) Pay back your past selves from your surplus "before the world notices."

Pic-related is the sigma notation for the geometric growth rate you get assuming 5 cannisters as a starting point, with a loss of two canisters per trip, you can time-dupe 3072 into existence in just ten minutes. It kind of makes you wonder why a roomful of geniuses would ever be worried about running out. Now reconcile yourself to the fact that you can do this with literally anything, even people, because the Russos are lazy fucking hacks.

People shouldn't be asking why Cap gave his shield to Falcon instead of Bucky. They should be asking why he doesn't have shields for both of them. They should be asking why, selfless guy that Cap is, he didn't dupe himself and flip a coin to determine who stays in the present to soldier on and who goes back in time to return the stuff they borrowed and make a brighter alt-future from the alt-past.

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But the comics world isnt any better and suffers from the same problems of these movies if not to a much worse extent because its been going on longer. The MCU wouldnt have been possible if they didnt take the grounded approach

they chose to use time travel in a fucking movie with magical rocks that can control time and reality
let that sink in

Go ahead and give me one reason for them changing how the Stones work or the rules of time travel besides pure cynicism and laziness.

why didn't they just use time travel to fix it?

Ok how about how the stones of power/mind stones, and only finally then named INFINITY GEMS as a retcon?? You would never find such a blatant inconsistency, the gems are all logically accounted for and given a clear history. This only happened in the comics due to cynicism and laziness. Then remember when Thanos 1v1s Strange with a full gauntlet and Strange uses all his magic trickets to win in a bullshit fight? Of course not, because you're talking out your ass.

It's so grounded that when Paramount was making the movies, they gave us a "grounded," easily digestible depiction of the Bifrost. It was a techno-magical construct and Heimdall was its gatekeeper and guardian. He unlocked it using his sword as a sort of key. It was easy to think of it as a transport hub, with a trip to Asgard being necessary before you visited anywhere else. We saw that there were repercussions to it being destroyed.

In Infinity War, we see Heimdall and Thor both "summon the Bifrost," even though neither the rainbow bridge nor Asvard itself even exist anymore. Why? Sheer laziness, shortsightedness, and cynicism. They need their characters to teleport now, so they can, never mind how that's just begging everyone to question why the go-to move in any high-stakes fight isn't "teleport to sun."

Thanos himself renamed them. He did it in a conversation with the Silver Surfer.

>you literally have to turn off your brain to enjoy the movie.

That's what you're supposed to do anyway. Movies are supposed to be entertainment, not intellectual stimulation. You're expecting too much.

There is a limit in "turning off your brain". I can accept standard stuff, like how the elite soldiers always miss their shots or some alleged geniuses make a completely retarded mistake, but capeshit is another level, you need to be brain damaged to fully appreciate it.

The logical thought is that Rocket told her where to look via a tracker on the Benatar.

>discussing capeshit like its actual art and not just corporate product
oh no no no
Yea Forums is so fucking retarded these past few years

>probably the most powerful item in the MCU
>gives user power to control time and reality

>user needs to snap like some 1930s black jazz man
>you can save everyone, but you need to snap otherwise it won't work
>most climactic moments of Infinity War and Endgame revolve around a snap
Did this bother anyone else?

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yeah, that also the reason Disney found a market niche on thots and nerdy gurls; ten years ago girls would lol you for liking this movies, now they are shedding tears whit the shitty death of Tony Stark.

Reminder of who the true hero of the movis is

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Fantastically. I saw it coming as soon as the Gamora exposition dump came in IW. I was insulted. I felt like the writers themselves were talking down to the audience, as if they'd be able to grasp that Thanos was just doing it for the theatricality.

I also hated the unnecessary mechanics of the gauntlet and the stones themselves. Making them lethal completely misses the point of them. What makes it even more annoying to me is how all of these changes were only necessary because they re-wrote Thanos's entire personality.

Yeah. Too fucking precious.

yeah, fuck af when u high af though

>"As long as I've known Thanos, he's always wanted to kill half of everything."

Seriously, bitch? Did it ever occur to you to maybe *tell* somebody that shit? Like maybe that interstellar police force that apparently has the most powerful being in the known universe on speed dial? I mean, you've known the crazy fuck your whole life. Are you seriously asking us to believe you've just been "busy?"

>Implying that Thanos didn't just use the second snap to make a copy of himself so the avengers could kill the copy and he could live out his retirement in peace
>Implying that in 10-15 years from now while helping a downed ship that landed near him he finds out that one day all the people who dissipated just came back

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