RIAN CLEARLY LURKS ON Yea Forums

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Prequel trilogy still gets toys. Its cannon

>being this blindly defensive and buttmad
He will literally never improve as a director

>JJ didn't build up Snoke properly,
did a WHOLE lot more than George did for the Emperor in ANH

the difference is snoke and night king are set up as being mysterious. emperor is just evil incarnate. there's nothing wrong with either, but you can't set up a mystery and then not pay it off and expect people to not be pissed.

there's other problems specific to night king too though. the white walkers are presented as being the greatest threat the world has ever seen. they last conquered the world 8000, and the order designed to fight them still exists. a 700 foot wall was built to keep them out. and then they finally show up in westeros after 8 seasons of build up and are defeated in their first battle.

that's the big issue. i don't expect rian to understand that though. he's clearly devolved into thinking any criticism of any pop culture is misogyny.

But his next movie is filled with stars and his other project is billions of dollar worth :)

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That's why George retconned it into being episode 4.

>I don't understand why he has to come across as so childish

Rian is an unformed adult. A petty, low-IQ manbaby.

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>Literally had 3 movies of buildup and delivery

How does he even have a job?

>The main bad guy is killed by Darth Vader in the climax of the movie
Heh out of nowhere amarite? Zero effort into setting it up and such a lazy payoff, don't you people feel silly now.

The PT came 2-3 decades after that scene,doesn't make rians statement untrue.

The prequels exist, and they are canon. Nobody was talking about the Emperor until Episode III came out. Everything people love about the Emperor (McDiarmid's performance, mostly) comes from Episode III. How much worse do the sequels have to get until we admit that the PT had at least ONE good movie?

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see

But the payoff was Vader killing The Emperor, its about Vaders redemption.

Based retard, learn to read.

>One thing was kinda shitty so it’s ok for our thing to be shitty too - the post.

Even disregarding the prequels, the Emperor didn't need to be explained. An Empire needs an Emperor. Darth Vader reports to someone, and whoever Vader bows to is going to be powerful, hence why he's the Emperor. There's not much that needs explaining. And then Snoke is the leader (kind of) of the First Order. What even is the first order? Why do they need a supreme leader if it isn't Hux or Kylo? Why does he need to be a Sith except he isn't? And since this is a sequel series that can't be viewed on its own merit, why wasn't he mentioned before if he's so powerful? Rian's argument is just stupid.

This poor retard can’t even realize how shitty was his writing for the movie.
I guess it’s just denial.

Why are you talking to yourself? Did you not see:
>Nobody was talking about the Emperor until Episode III came out
Nobody said Palpatine was a good villain when Episode VI was released. Saying shit like "Well, you liked Sheev's death, so that means you HAVE to like Snoke's death, too!" is retarded, because it ignores all context.

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Because it's been done before? Isn't this what liberals call whataboutism whenever Putin reminds journos who are to throw rocks at him?
>Yeah, Snoke isn't explained at all
>BUT WHAT ABOUT EMPEROR
Emperor is Emperor, Snoke ain't Emperor. Emperor won once.

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>using the weakest OT movie to defend your movie
ohh...

Well done, Rian. Well done!

I can't wait to see what sort of clever plot twists and hilarious jokes you and D&D will come up with in your new trilogy! :^)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH FUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK RRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

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It's not about good or bad, nobody was asking the question about muh emperor back then, today a lot of neckbeards still seething about snoke after years and praising the OT.

>One thing was kinda shitty so it’s ok for our thing to be shitty too

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>and then I smashied it! I stompied all over it myself because I thot it was dum! My favrit guy Snoke even said it was stoopid!
I wonder how mad he is that they rebuilt the helmet.

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>nobody was asking the question about muh emperor back then
Because he wasn't just a pointless character, killing the emperor still closed up other arcs in a satisfying way, not simply to surprise the audience.

That dude is such a grown child.

The emperor wasn't the main villain though, and he got enough exposure in ROTJ. Rian is a hack writer

Let's get one thing clear, film or storytelling in general is art, and art is subjective, and as such there is no clear correct/incorrect split of what should be done. However, movies and TV shows are inherently commercial products, and their purpose is to be interesting and intriguing to the audience, and if they're not, they have objectively failed at their purpose. If Rian thinks what he did with Snoke is good storytelling, and literally everyone else thinks it's shit, there's not much debate to be had in favor of Rian's point of view.

Yea Forums is open to almost all countries retard. What a fucking surprise

Exactly. Snoke was a mystery, just a giant hologram face; you can pretty much take that anywhere. "Yeah, he's exactly the most obvious possibility, oh and he's dead."

>Let's get one thing clear, film or storytelling in general is art, and art is subjective, and as such there is no clear correct/incorrect split of what should be done.
Just because art as a whole is subjective, doesn't mean that there aren't pieces that can be judged objectively. If time was spent building up Snoke as the main villain, and he gets killed off halfway through and replaced by Kylo, then all that time spent on him was objective wasted. Snoke and all his scenes should've just been removed from the trilogy altogether, as all they do is waste the audience's time. They're no better than the casino scenes in TLJ, but at least that was confined to a single movie, instead of across two.

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Could this man get anymore based? Seriously

If his objective with killing off Snoke without explanation was to frustrate the viewer, it's objectively not wasted, however that doesn't mean frustrating the viewer makes for a good film or a good story.

Yep. TLJ lacks in a lot of stuff but killing Snoke was a good decision. In TFA I thought "Not again, they already remaked ANH basically and then they shove in a copy of Palpatine?" and was glad they killed him in the middle of the movie. The Kylo/Rey dynamic is the most interesting part anyway.

That's probably one of the weakest things about the OT. There wasn't even much temptation involved since Luke at no point looked ready to buy what Palps was selling. I don't think Rian did anyone any favors by repeating that mistake. Also Palps was by far more fun to watch since he kept cackling like an asshole.

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And it will be shitty, just like every other one of his movies

Yeah, and Kylo killed Snoke. Rian's telling us that he ripped off the Vader / Emperor thing, the way JJ used story beats from the OT for VII.

What Rian doesn't get is that the audience liked Vader killing the Emperor because we'd seen the Emperor be a dick a bunch of times and were ready for him to die. If he wasn't going to bother keeping Snoke around, he should have at least had him be a dick and kill some people, force choke, torture information, to get some negative feelings in the audience towards him. Get us to hate him. As it is, people were still just curious about Snoke when he died.

That's a fair point. If Rian set out from the beginning to go down in history as "the man who ruined Star Wars", then I can't exactly call his work a failure.

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Trump isn't shitty though

So he's trying to backpeddle and pretend he was just following the original movies now? After spending all this time patting himself on the back for his "subverting of expectations" Kek

Art is subjective, but there are still rules. One is that if you're going to subvert the payoff, it has to be somehing better than the original one everyone was expecting. Otherwise it's just a narrative flop. Good subversion: the Red Wedding in GoT. Bad subversion: everything in TLJ. Subverting your narrative purely for le tweest shock value with some bullshit out of left field will always result in a shitty anticlimax everyone will hate.

This is a complete false equivalency. In Star Wars, the Emperor wasn't actually the villain that anyone cared about, he was just the archetypal evil (OT) that admittedly had a cool presence and dialogue, but he was kept a half-character on purpose so you didn't know what he was capable of and for you to not quite know if Vader would redeem himself and save Luke.

A villain that comes into a series after, like Snoke needs to establish a proper reason for doing what they did otherwise its just a blatant rehash of what happened before, which undermines the series and weakens the emperor and all that came before it.

This is in fact the entire series, prequel and sequels mistake. The prequels made the war that pervades the galaxy look like a petty power struggle based on trade agreements and a ridiculous pastiche of Hitler's rise to power. And the new films carry on a conflict that was pretty clearly ended without a solid reason why.

You can't just use the foundations of the original films as an excuse on why you haven't built upwards.

agreed entirely

this. so there's this ancient looking ultra powerful sith lord, whose existence has never been mentioned before, even though the story takes place 30 years after the OT? better yeah no need to explain that just kill him off lmao

I can't wait for the books that go into excruciating detail analysing the many disasters that constitute The Last Jedi once its colossal failure and radioactive legacy becomes increasingly impossible to ignore in the coming years

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>Bad needs a bad boss
Coping this hard

As much as I want to believe that this is the case, his behavior before, during, and after making TLJ has made it fairly obvious that he's just an idiot who didn't know what the hell he was doing.
The fact that the film even got released like that is quite telling - nobody at Disney or Lucasfilms (at least nobody in a position of power) has the first fucking clue about how to make a good movie.

TFA is, in a way, even worse. I suspect Rian felt cornered by TFA's hollow, blatantly plagiarized storyline, and went out of his way to do something different. If he had a better setup to work with, there's even a chance he might have made a half-decent movie.

Excellent analysis. You've persuaded me and I say this with 0 drops of sarcasm.

The difference is that the emperor is the Empire. By that I mean we know enough about him by what his organization shows us, he cares about discipline, doesn't care about people's lives, Vader is an extension of his will and overall character.
Snoke could've had that but the first order seem utterly disconnected from him, kylo ren doesn't seem to have any real stakes or care about snoke in any real way because its all written poorly. That doesn't mean it couldn't have made sense but the way its presented in the 2 movies is not cohesive.

Because he gets 9001 tweets a day from whiny Yea Forums-tier critics who wish him death. Just look at the comments when he said RIP Peter Mayhew. He's just not into treating trolls seriously.

Rian is unironically based

>If he had a better setup to work with, there's even a chance he might have made a half-decent movie.
I really doubt it. Unlike George who managed to add cool ideas or concepts even to his bad movies, Rian set out to make an unconventional Star Wars film and still managed to make it feel stale, cliche and devoid of any originality

/thread

Why, yes, Rian, people are confused when you claim to subvert expectations and want to make not a typical Star Wars story, yet you deflect criticism by claiming that's how a typical Star Wars story goes.

Make up your goddamn mind.

nah he's just a manchild who wanted to be smarter than everyone and can't admit his movie was pure garbage

Forget it, Johnson is mentally ill

Everything we've seen from the guy is more than enough to confirm it

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You can literally smell the onions emanating from him through your screen

What a fucking moron. He's either never actually watched the OT or is too braindead to process what he's watching.

>To be fair though I always saw Palpatine dying there not about him but more about Vadar anyway so I don't think it stands.
Palpatine WAS the Empire you god damn idiots. Without him there isn't an empire. Snoke was the...?

NK wasn't game of thrones, he was the climax that ended up being premature ejaculation.
He was nature vs. man's ideals

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Still feels like more of a character than Snoke. The emperor also had presence in his few scenes. Just because x was bad is no reason for y to be shit.

>he's just a manchild who wanted to be smarter than everyone and can't admit his movie was pure garbage
He reeks of thinking he's the only thinking man among sheeple. Like, take Looper for example, I am 100% convinced he think that movie is like an answer to every time travel movie ridden with plot holes and inconsistencies, without realizing he just created another time travel movie with its own set of plot holes and inconsistencies. Most of them are even basic logic like why would you ever make Loopers kill their future selves when you have an army of other Loopers.

He's still built up effectively in the OT.

Why do you tards never link to the tweet?

That pic triggers me something rotten

You get a once-in-a-lifetime chance to meet a movie composing legend and you commemorate the event by pulling a sōyboi face

Fucking Johnson

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Do you know why George didn't need to exposition dump more than a couple of lines for the Emperor? Because back then, his audience wasn't culturally illiterate and cucked by a shit education system. You could tell people there *was* and Emperor and that his rise accompanied the fall of a Republic, and everyone already knew the broad strokes of the back story.

In contrast, we get:

>"It was Snoke. It was always Snoke."

And then we never get much more than that, because JJ and Retard are *both* fucking hacks. "It was Snoke." Jesus wept. They sound like they're talking about a guy they knew from college.

What is he complaining about? He killed off Snoke in his movie and he barely got any screentime.

alright, if this is legit, rian johnson is legitimately retarded and shouldn't even see any of his writing published as pulp

Nothing. He is retarded

what is he talking about? the emperor getting betrayed by darth vader was properly set up, ergo pay-off.

>muh dick
Is rian actually red pilled?

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>and then they finally show up in westeros after 8 seasons of build up and are defeated in their first battle.
>that's the big issue. i don't expect rian to understand that though.
correct. it's an issue of dramaturgy.

this There is enough exposition to know what motivates him besides "i am evil" in OT.

It's one of the problem with these large persistent universes at first everything is new, rules and histories are not established. You can get away with vague allusions to people and events since in your imagination they can be anything, like "The Emperor" or "The clone wars", but after you have produced hours of material that establishes rules, systems, historical events you simply can't do that any more.

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The issue isn't that he killed Snoke, it's the execution.

no, that is not the problem here. the OT follows a clear dramaturgy:
>the prince tries to convince the evil knight, his father, to go back to being good. the evil knight refuses until he witnesses his master, the evil wizard, being short of murdering his son at the highpoint of the story. he decides to betray his master to save his son, his love for him being stronger as push comes to shove.
now do the same for snoke's death midpoint in the trilogy.
checkmate TLJ, fans

It's one problem of many, RotJ is obviously far better in every way. Although it totally fucks up Vader's redemptive act by making so the Death Star explodes anyway, so the Emperor would have died regardless.

the emperor is only hinted a few times before Return of the Jedi, but the fact he's Darth Vader's master, an already very threatening villain, is more than enough to give him a great ominous presence
Snoke is the master only to a pussy who lost in the first movie to a nobody, and then killed off anti-climatically in the 2nd movie
the emperor on the other hand is killed after the climatic fight between Vader and Luke, his death is only the cherry on top
plus the exchange he has with Luke is eons better than what you have between Snoke and Mary Sue it also builds perfectly to the final confrontation between Luke and Vader

yeah and this happened at the end of the last movie, not half way through the second one

He was established. He was the ruler and wanted to keep ruling. end of story, it makes sense that someone is in charge already. Meanwhile after ep 6 the bad guy lost, but no Snoke pop out of nowhere with twice the strenght the empire once had supposedly being a remnant

return of the jedi is the worst of the 3 original star wars movies and people pointed that thing out on the first day of release

And it is *still* miles better than the sequels.

Also there is no real mystery in ANH everything is new.

In The Force Awakens, there are a plethora of questions deliberately and accidentally created. What happened to Luke, are the first order just the Empire, why do they have a different name? Did the Rebellion really win at the end of RotJ? etc.

Snoke seems to be a Nexus of almost all of these unanswered questions it's implicit that his story will an answer to them. If he is just another unanswered question, the mysteries just implode into a narrative black-hole.

I assume that is why they are bringing back Palpatine as he will be the one behind Snoke all this time(!!!1!).

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That is a stupid comparison.
The emperor is stablished from the beginning as the top dog of an existing empire, we dont need to know how he reached there, the setup is established and he is the absolute evil to beat.
On the other side we got the pimp rushing into an already well know setup without any kind of explanation about his powers, background of military prowess. Of course people will ask questions, where does that fits in the universe we already know?
The fact that Rian Johnson dont understand this explains a lot about his shitty movie

rent free

No, he wrote the "medic" meme.

Holy fuck, you people didn’t get Rian take AT ALL, he was making a post-structural statement about semiology. It was quite brilliant in how it bender traditional story telling framework for a more modern and diverse approach to narrative creation.

There is literally research chairs created to explore this, so yeah it is not that easy to get but like trust the media or the artist instead of being autistically contrarian lie this.

THE FUCK IS HIS PROBLEM S??????????

I can already hear EVS revving up a new video to dab on Roundhead

>PT isnt canon because its soooo bad and boring man
>TLJ, Solo and other shitty dinsney spinoffs are canon because lol its new
The absolute pathetic state of disneyfags

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>composing legend
>rip off gustav holst for half his shit
youtube.com/watch?v=Jmk5frp6-3Q

Name one Williams track that rips off Mars

A better example of Holst influence would be Eidelman's The Undiscovered Country, although it's still no less awesome for borrowing from him

youtube.com/watch?v=xmc2EW8-ToI

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Exactly friend.

"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" is an iconic line because although we haven't even met him yet. We know he must be some insane motherfucker to be worse than Vader.

People also forget that scene in Empire where Vader bows before the holographic of the emperor. That's another big tell that the emperor is worse than Vader.

>Nobody was talking about the Emperor until Episode III came out
Un-fucking-ironically 18+

So Ryan copied the Vader killing Emperor scene except in the middle of a series, with none of the buildup or emotional investment and without any payoff?

Truly a genius

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What a stupid example. Palpatine was never the main villain of the original trilogy. It was all about the Vader and palpatine himself only appeared in the third movie and was there to let the real villain and protagonist have a payoff

Any other example of one movie can ruin a man and kill his carrier?

It would have been thematically better if there was a massive power surge from the Emperor's death that caused the DS2 to become structurally unstable and break apart in a non-vaporizing explosion.

your taste in art is subjective, art itself is objective.

My lord he is childish.
Imagine being this bad at taking criticism

>i don't expect rian to understand that though. he's clearly devolved into thinking any criticism of any pop culture is misogyny.
Well, isn’t it?

>And the PT isn't canon.
Based basement dwelling virgin.

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Night King had a few seasons

Is this dude even jewish, how does a manchild like him even get a job directing.

>tfw never jumped in one of those things and now I am too old to try

>using the subject field
>writing it Yea Forums and not Yea Forums even though you read it ten thousand times a day
you fucking underage newfag piece of shit

Jar Jar and Johnson really were the perfect storm for Star Wars. Mr. "mystery box" just copied the source material, added a mary sue under contract obligation, and added as much unsolved plotpoints as he could. Then the manchild smeared it with toddler tier humor, and his obsesion with suberted expectatives ruined the narrative that was created in the last movie. Add to that that neither one understands the force, that lightsaber fights are trash, and that characters ar unlikable and suddenly you can drive the most hyped revival of a franchise into the ground with a mere 2 movies.

>why would you ever make Loopers kill their future selves when you have an army of other Loopers.

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I mean, his name is literally Johnson. He’s a dick.

2 movies, actually. And only a very brief 2 seconds mention in ANH.

>What Rian doesn't get is that the audience liked Vader killing the Emperor because we'd seen the Emperor be a dick a bunch of times and were ready for him to die.
Same for SNoke? We see the emperor being a dick for the first time in RotJ. We see Snoke being a dick a bit in TLJ, and a lot on TLJ. It's literally the same.

>He's still built up effectively in the OT.
>ANH: 1 throwaway line about an emperor or senate, something
>ESB: "Look for Luke." Okay Master
>ROTJ: Ok I'm here everyone
Great build up

>the emperor is only hinted a few times before Return of the Jedi, but the fact he's Darth Vader's master, an already very threatening villain, is more than enough to give him a great ominous presence
t. zoomer who thinks a minute long postcredit thanos scene is the standard for building up a villain

you ve missed nothing.

Yeah I give Rian a pass on killing off Snoke cos who the fuck cared about him anyway?

>Star Wars
>Rip off Gustave Holst
Never got the meme beside the whole space concept. No theme from starwars have the structure of Holst´s Mars. Do you study music or just parroting?

What a faggot.

But we know the emperor wanted to stay as the ruler of all the galaxy, just some evil dude so who got enough power to destroy the republic. The whole thing about Vader and Luke was just to have all force users on his side because only a Jedi could defeat the Empire.
The problem with Snoke is that he was pretty much the same concept at first sight so people thought they wouldn't stop at it and would give him a better background, if the ways of the force are so important why wasn't he along the emperor in the OT? Is he an ancient evil who just awakened? Could Snoke be related to Rei who has strong ties to the force like the skywalker family? You can't blame people for expecting more from Smoke.

>mentioned in passing
>steps up to directly influencing the plot
>steps up again to actually being in the movie

It feels like a progression since it shows the movies closing in towards an end goal which was taking down the emperor.

>turned Vader to evil

The Emperor has a lengthy dialogue with Luke before his death explaining his motivations

What if Rian was /ourguy/ all along

Because the OT was a new story with a new universe. The emperor was just there. The sequel trilogy is a sequel to this universe so we should fucking know WHAT HAPPENED after six

His answer will be, "It's a metaphor for crime," which he thinks excuses the illogical premise, but what he will never understand is just because he thought it was an artful metaphor doesn't mean he executed it well. You can't just abandon logic in a story without taking people out of your premise. There's an art to crafting a subtle, well-integrated metaphor in a story, and it's a talent he sorely lacks.

The emperor had one cameo scene in ESB, mentioned only in dialogue in the original, and had like 6 minutes of on screen presence before being killed. We knew nothing of his character, motivation, background, etc. He was just a generic evil baddy. All he did was represent evil. I think this was actually good, but don't pretend like he was a good character villain. The OT emperor was simply a tangible representation of evil.

Warcraft wasn't totally unwatchable, for a video game movie I would even call it good. but even a broken clock is right twice a day.