>sees the westeros what it really is, a backward, age old, full of superstition and barbaric traditions where feudal system is still running for over thousands of years, where people always fight against each other for stupid reasons and never sees any kind of prosperity
>planned to undertake military reforms, creating a single unified and elite westerosi army. Laying the groundwork of integrating all houses and people under a single banner. Stopping wars between houses that has been going on for thousand year and forcing a single law, the kings law. With less hostilities, the farmers and villagers dont have to die and can prosper in peace without fearing a regional conflict.
>has his people develop new technologies in several fields (weapons, ships, etc) kickstarts a wildfire production and. Meanwhile Westeros still honors their ancestors and fight with rusty hundred year old swords and pikes.
He was the liberal reformer who Westeros needed to pull the whole civilization out the dark ages.
Joffrey was the right king after all
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then a fucking (((globalist))), am i right
Reminder that Stannis can't provide solid evidence that Joffrey isn't Robert's son
i know ur being ironic but realistically no house would give up their banners and identity
cringe and bluepilled
Stop being addicted to Yea Forums
have sex with an Irish woman
What? He never did any of these things. He had no plans whatsoever. He was just a dim, cruel child. The wildfire for example was all Tyrion, Joffrey probably wasn't even aware of it.
What the fuck are you smoking?
le contrarian opinion
no he did speak of banners being out dated and how Westeros should have one standing army
He was a bad ruler because so many people hated him that he’d inevitably end up dead. If your job is nationbuilding, you don’t make an enemy of every constituent community that isn’t a blonde-haired family member.
He should’ve done what Louis XIV did with Versailles. Bring the heads of each house to King’s Landing, make it seem like he’s giving them all a seat at his table but really just get everyone in one spot so he can centralize the government. Make their lives as splendid as fucking possible, don’t make an enemy out of them. He could’ve have his unified army but he was an idiot.
Was that in the show only? I read the books in question just a few months ago.
Yes, it was in a conversation with Cersei.
youtube.com
I did, it was glorious, but then she ask me for potatoes.
That was show only because the writers don't understand Feudalism.
Man, I don't get it. Why do they have to add completely new scenes and dialog? There is plenty of source material, so much that they have to leave out a ton of it.
And it doesn't fit the characters at all. Joffrey never showed that kind of big picture thinking in the books, and Cersei was always portrayed as treating him like a sweet little child, she would never ask him what he thought about the political situation in the north. She never knows what to do. They both just say what they want and let someone else figure out how to get it done.
Fuck the show, the early seasons weren't that much better.
Op
Continent that has one common language, religion and ancestry with slight differences of culture that have developed regionally is hardly something you would call (((globalization))).
Think of it as the USA without Federal government. With Joffrey creating that federal government.
I am actually not. This is why Olenna and Littlefinger had him poisoned. Bruh
I am not arguing about his ethics and morals. His ideas were different compared to other potential kings who cared about nation building as the rise of their dynasty and keeping the cycle rolling. Joffrey with his reforms could have changed the economic, political landscape of westeros to a new direction as a whole.
I have and it was mediocre.
>nation building
>before nationalism
>before the rise of lawyers, merchants, cities or something like the Magna Carta
brainlet
>kickstarts a wildfire production
Joffrey had nothing to do with that
I understand that both are modern concepts. You don't.
Also welcome to Yea Forums, newfag.
nation
/ˈneJʃ(ə)n/
noun
a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.
nationalism
/ˈnaʃ(ə)n(ə)lJz(ə)m/
noun
identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
Who is the brainlet again?
Bran and Gendry and Rickon and Joffrey and Tommen and Jojen and Dickon and Lancel and Loras are so handsome.
>trying to win a debate on history using a contemporary encyclopedia
>Nationalism as an ideology is modern. Throughout history, people have had an attachment to their kin group and traditions, to territorial authorities and to their homeland, but nationalism did not become a widely-recognized concept until the 18th century.[8]
What exactly are you trying to argue here?
That both "nation" and "nationalism" are modern concepts that were introduced by shit writers who don't understand Feudalism. Whereas people from my MA department actually love GRRM for having a very deep understanding of pre-modern customs, communication and rule.
Never did I mention nationalism so I dont understand what are you trying to say with this one.
As with nation, you want to tell me that kingdom by definition can not be defined a nation in on itself?
The only thing holding the seven kingdoms together was dragons.
Without them the king can't really enforce his power unless the majority of the seven kingdoms are willing to fight for him.
>my MA department
That's a yikes there sweaty
I think the point is that Westeros is maybe near a transitionary period between its 1400s feudalism and 1600s state-building. Joffrey had the right idea with a national army but the wrong idea of how to do it (being an asshole doesn’t work).
You do understand that different concepts can be attached to different concepts, right? Like words change their meaning. The medieval "natio" has little to do with the modern "nation". The meaning changes around 1400 and morphs into the modern usage. It's very well researched.
>As with nation, you want to tell me that kingdom by definition can not be defined a nation in on itself?
Sorry, but if you disagree it's obvious that you never read a proper book on the subject written after 1900.
>Never did I mention nationalism so I dont understand what are you trying to say with this one.
The sentiment Jof expresses uses modern concepts of nationalism.
Also you mentioned nationalism here
+"nation building" without nationalism doesn't make sense.
>I think the point is that Westeros is maybe near a transitionary period between its 1400s feudalism and 1600s state-building.
I agree but they should have used the pro-nationalistic concept against Dany+Dothraki like in the books instead of just coming up with unthinkable shit like a standing army.
>proto*
Have sex
I had yesterday with my college gf. 'twas fun
>You do understand that different concepts can be attached to different concepts, right? Like words change their meaning. The medieval "natio" has little to do with the modern "nation". The meaning changes around 1400 and morphs into the modern usage. It's very well researched.
Instead I should use the word 'natio' so the person who has no understanding of the word should understand the point i am trying to make?
>Sorry, but if you disagree it's obvious that you never read a proper book on the subject written after 1900.
Word 'nation' can still be used in this context I am trying to make on my earlier statements given that the definition still stays the same.
>The sentiment Jof expresses uses modern concepts of nationalism.
And what do I have to with it exactly?
>+"nation building" without nationalism doesn't make sense.
You, me and the person I replied to understand the basic definition of 'nation-building' so I simply used the word in the context. You are simply arguing about the definition of words that I use and not the point i am trying to make.
No. The words you use refer to concepts that simply don't exist in the world of ASOIAF or medieval Europe. It's that simple.
I understand that point already, thank you for the correction.
The point of my whole post is to simply show why Joffrey might have been the best king for Westeros. The definitions I use are modern and the person who reads it can understand the point i am trying to make. Everyone understands the definition of the word 'nation', not all understand the word 'natio' however. Get my point? My target audience is Yea Forums, not a college board.
The term 'nation-building' would not be even the word I would have used, I would use centralization. But the user who used the word had a context to it in his post, so i used the same term they understand to convey my point of view back for comfortable reading.
Any good books to read on Medieval politics while we are at it?
Shouldn't have killed Ros. Should've kept her as his personal mommy-slut.
I met him in Dublin once and he was a very nice man.
Seriously, why did he do it?
dorne+iron islands don't resemble the highgarden, lannister culture
there would be a war sooner or later because you cant just erase age old customs to have a main culture over the others
Uff da that pic.
Still, GoT has never been good and even the books are overhyped so I’m gonna go with “Joffrey is secretly an Enlightened Despot” and say he did it bc he saw how prostitution spreads venereal disease.
God she looks so gross , how tf did they make her look ugly lol