There is an overwhelmingly popular trend in television and film at the moment where directors/writers will put everything on the line for the sake of attempting to subvert expectations and deconstruct classical storytelling. I'm sure you've noticed. It's everywhere, from Star Wars to Game of Thrones and every minimal intellectual property/original story in between.
Has deconstruction/subverting expectations become so ubiquitous that it has become the cliche it was meant to take apart? I can't help but roll my eyes every time there's a "shocking reveal" that is just a lazy effort at surprising everyone from the writers. People eat this shit up, though.
>Has deconstruction/subverting expectations become so ubiquitous that it has become the cliche it was meant to take apart? welcome to the postironic future honk honk
Angel Morris
you're the kind of homo OP's talking about though
Grayson Wood
it has a stench of arrogance to it, as if the writers or director really want to be auteurs but lack any of the style. It's simply a sign of the times, everything is self aware and ironic (look at most of our commercials now). In writer's minds today, The very idea of "progression", "payoff" and "theme" is so archaic. To them, it's expected therefore bad. I think overall the problem stems from the fact they seem to be confusing actual narrative finesse with style. There's a difference between surprising your viewer and deliberately and deconstructing narrative skill. One cannot go stale and the other can.
Austin Walker
It's like they just hate their parents or something. They don't mind writing an absolutely terrible story as long as it isn't the same as those great stories their parents loved so much. Lord of the Rings, the classic epic tale of good vs. evil? That's old hat! Luke Skywalker turned into a paranoid asshole for some reason and tried to kill his nephew? Wow, isn't that compelling stuff.
I'm all for interesting twists and turns but it seems like Hollywood is just shitting out projects where the deconstruction is the goal and it doesn't matter how poorly you get there. As long as people talk about it on social media, it's a blistering success.
Hopefully it's a short-lived fad. I believe the future holds a kind of "neo-sincerity", where the thirst for heartfelt stories return. I feel this is why we have been seeing a resurgence and success of the 80's aesthetic.
Charles Flores
>look at most of our commercials now This is a strangely accurate gauge for this type of shit, if only because advertisements are unadulterated shilling. If you were to watch a few hours of cable television from the 80s-90s recorded straight to VHS, you would be astonished at how earnest and straightforward the ads were. The type of meta, self-aware faggotry OP describes is exactly the kind of trash Yea Forums praises endlessly. It Follows is a prime example
John Cox
I could see that. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Eventually people will realize that deconstruction is only a bold artistic move the first time it's done. Then again, we're living in a time where nearly everything is a reboot, a sequel, or a prequel. They're just shamelessly plundering anything remotely popular from alternative forms of media and spewing it out post-haste.
Joshua Cook
>There is an overwhelmingly popular trend in television and film at the moment where directors/writers will put everything on the line for the sake of attempting to subvert expectations and deconstruct classical storytelling Yeah, which makes it hilarious that Endgame went with the safest fan pleasing option possible and is raking in more money than God and critical praise
The whole point was to build up to something new and refreshing, it only felt unexpected but still made sense and added to the story's complexity. Such as darth Vader's reveal for example. Now they build up and think that building up to nothing will have the same effect just because its unexpected, but it isn't new or refreshing, nor does it add to the complexity of the work.
Jaxson Flores
Yeah I think a look at a a specific era's ads offers an unadulterated lens at the culture. Additionally, you can never "feel" or truly "get" how a certain society is till after the fact. There's also a lot of B.S. too with history and how we inaccurately shape decades into representing certain things, but this effect will happen to ours as well and irony, deconstructing, postmodernism, will definitely play a huge role. I really don't like it, but at the same time I understand that this is a 'necessary progression' towards the general public "waking up", or "truth" seeking. There's a feeling of anguish at first upon realization that everything we've been taught was a lie. Though decades like the 20s, 50s, 80s, etc. operated more smoothly, they lived in the lie we have been slowly uncovering.
Yes and no, the first act were they go to Thanos and the result was super subverting, but then what the story was left with had no choice but to go in a safe direction, which I wouldn't be surprised if rise of the sky walker does the same thing.
Which is really the problem with subversion as well, you want to make fans happy by giving them the ending they expected but they ruin it by making this huge subversion in the middle but don't commit to it and you just end up with the same old thing but with a really sour note in the beginning that only hinders the climax.
Matthew Rivera
What is that lie?
Jordan Bailey
>from Star Wars to Game of Thrones The problem with these shows is that they present themselves as formulaic to begin with.
So the subversion of expectations is almost required to make it interesting. GoT is filled with prophecies and if they're acted out as written, then who fucking cares? Star Wars is remaking the OT and if they don't deviate from that structure at all then it's similarly boring.
Hunter Roberts
I've seen this a lot in the recent Disney/Pixar movies where they try to make the main villains a surprise reveal to the audience. In the renaissance era of Disney animated films it was always very clear who the villain was at the start of the movie
Oliver Clark
my favorite game to play is watch a horror movie and see if i can guess if they will go for no twist, twist, or double twist
Oliver Johnson
Post-modernists despise grand narratives.
Nothing is allowed to be noble or heroic, that's patriarchal, hierarchical, and oppressive. Everything must be subverted, including cultures, mythologies, and narrative structure itself.
Connor Moore
Hoping some soulless Hollywood fuck sees this, subverting expectations sucks dick it's not clever.
Jordan Davis
don't worry teevee, some day i'll become a famous director and you'll like my flicks (screencap this)
Lincoln Robinson
You carry the face of us all little one
John White
becaues normies think that >MANY TWISTS = HIGH IQ WRITING they hate sincere straightforward shows because that's "cheesy"
Christopher Butler
>Has deconstruction/subverting expectations
You mean twists? Fuck outta here with your zoomer ways of describing shit faggot.
Nathaniel Butler
We need to bring back the Hero's Journey and its archetypal symbolism
Zachary Torres
Yes, but subverting a prophecy by forgetting you made it is hack writing, rather than it coming true, but in an ironic, unexpected way ala Shakespeare. Besides, D&D actually did try to make a prophecy come true in the most brain-shrivellingly retarded way by ret conning the throwaway line from S3 about muh blue eyes. So they didn't subvert anything. They are not intelligent, interesting or original in any way.
Jason Wood
I'm all for a good twist, but there better be a damn good narrative or thematic reason behind it aside from shock value or bucking trends. Above all else, it better be well fucking executed. The real problem isn't 'subverting expectations' -- it's that studios are clearly shoehorning them in everywhere lazily as if to check off some box that was mandated by a suit's short-sighted research that showed media with twists 'were well received by younger audiences.'
People have been waiting for neo-sincerity since the 90s. All the shit thats happening to film or video games has been going on with Literature for the better part of a century.
Jonathan Perez
>Literature ya gotta expect it from pseuds though.
