>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
I don’t think it’s that bad of a quote. It’s a decent response to the “what if history wasn’t written by the victors and simply was written the way it happened”
Zachary Reyes
he's a faggot that's into gay fantasy shit
Luis Anderson
who cares about orcs? middle-earth ONU?
Lucas Reed
You can tell his hippie ass hates Tolkien even when he says good things about him.
He’s the anti-Tolkien. A sick degenerate version. Where Tolkien has poetry and valor, Martin has disgusting perversion and scat.
Brayden Walker
GoT s1-4>LotR
Luke Reyes
>Where Tolkien has poetry and valor cringed right there
>Where Tolkien has landscape descriptions and characters breaking into gay songs, Martin has food descriptions and characters breaking into gay orgies. fixed that for you bro
Sebastian Green
it's lotr for teenagers. adults don't read/watch shit about horses and knights and wizards and orcs.
Adrian Walker
he's retarded because there are no baby orcs and orc cradles if he'd read the books or even seen the movies he'd know that. He's just a hack who decided to shit on Tolkien in an interview for publicity
Alexander Edwards
Considering the size of Westeros, each of the nine constituencies should probably have like ten drastically different languages subdivided to several dialects. But fuck that, everybody speaks the Common Tongue and Wildlings speak the Old Tongue, bravo Martin!
Jayden James
Based
Cameron Flores
>fight in the greatest tragedy in human history >live to see it happen again >pour every ounce of your intellect, empathy and faith into a timeless work of fiction to try and make sense of the insane times you were born into
>some fat ugly draft dodger says you didn't include enough descriptions of judicial torture
I wonder if JRR ever criticized the people who wrote The Nibelungenleid for not including enough descriptions goblins.
In a war but not in direct combat, he was under bombardment for months in the trenches comanding a blue collor signals squad. Then was sen home for illness and the squad he commanded was killed by bombardment and by the end of the war all his fellow upper class friends/classmates who went to war a year before him were dead
Stfu. Uruk Hai arent all orcs so it's save to assume orcs preproduce sexually. Tolkien never stated otherwise.
Grayson Anderson
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?
No because orcs don't have "baby orcs in their little orc cradles" unlike White Walkers who do have babies and they were all kill by Arya now so I guess he must hate Arya for the genocide of an entire race
Xavier Ward
Gollum eats a young orc in the books...
Gavin Lopez
>he didn't say it doesn't happen so it could happen! that is called fanfiction
Joshua Perez
He has PTSD and sever survivors guilt
He went to war a year later than every one else he knew, Tolkien wanted to finish his degree and get married first. The ladies in his area had him listed to get a white feather. The week after he graduated (It also was a factor in his being offered a commission) he proposed and got married then enlisted and was sent to Officer school
Christian Diaz
>can’t appericate true art because it’s “gay”.
You’ll grow up soon enough.
Ethan Butler
>Nibelungenleid Yeah, you tried so sound smart but failed.
William Peterson
Tolkien wrote they procreate like the children of iluvatar. What do you think does that mean?
Ryder Fisher
Nigger I'm dumb as shit.
Austin Bailey
if actually does finish the books what are the chances he actually ends it with all the main characters dying? youtu.be/cGh3s0lPxCQ
The Hobbit came out of stories for his kids, at the same time he had been working on his epic for 20 years and it was not meant to be connected although he pulled a few ideas from his own work. when they demanded a sequel he combined the two worlds
Ryder Ramirez
He wrote Morgoth put humans in cages and raised them like animals for generations so they would breed with anything even orcs. Thus lost of various orc human hybrids Half orcs, goblin men, Orc Men etc
Noah Gomez
Stop posting this thread every single day you retard. >Muh tax policy >Muh little baby orcs We get it. Move on please.
Jayden Ramirez
i swear its just one extremely butthurt tolkienfag that makes this thread every day. tolkien is just as much of a hack as grrm
Charles Bell
>What's his fucking problem? Tolkien's monomyth is all good and fine but not the be-all-end-all to an adult interested in mythical medieval europe.
Austin Rivera
t. eternally triggered tolkienfag
Kevin Powell
Gollum says he hunted YOUNG goblins who wandered away from their families
Anthony Anderson
tolkien wrote books for children, grrm writes books for edgy children please grow up
Ayden Young
no, i dont want to be like you.
Ian King
im pretty awesome user
Juan Campbell
Why wouldn't you kill baby orcs. They're fucking disgusting
Easton Bennett
>Northerners are so different that even their religion is separate from the other kingdoms >but their language is the same shit Braavos Martin!
>Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up, she was shitting brown water. The more she drank the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew. was he right?
Nicholas Hernandez
>Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow! Bright Blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow! bravo
Lucas Gutierrez
Diarrhea kills people from dehydration so yeah.
Josiah Myers
Tolkien is to creative literary genius what Martin is to hack pulp idiocy. They both so far surpass anyone else in their field that they will be remembered 1,000 years from now as a kind of yin and yang of fantasy, a Manichaen duality of speculative letters. For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. It is unfair to compare the two directly on any one point, because Martin is in every way the anti-Tolkien, patently sterile, parasitical, and inferior, but so much so that he becomes a monument in his own right, and counterbalances Tolkien. Could one exist without the other? Tolkien obviously could. But it is only by the contrast that Martin offers that we can truly appreciate the full depths and heights of Tolkien. Our understanding of Tolkien would be incomplete if Martin had never set pen to page. It is through only the abject failure and futility of Martin that we can approach an apprehension of the true scope and scale of Tolkien's hitherto inconceivable greatness. Perhaps this is what Tolkien had in mind when he wrote about the Music of the Ainur. If Tolkien is a subcreator in the image of Eru, truly Martin is like unto Melkor. It is only reflected in the awfulness of the one that we can fully see the goodness of the other.
Kayden Baker
>In a war but not in direct combat >en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Somme >Casualties and losses >British Empire c. 456,000[1][2][3] >French Third Republic c. 200,000[4][5][3] >German Empire c. 434,000–500,000
Robert Lee
FAT PINK MAST
Bentley Lewis
>For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. Both are equally valid forms of entertainment.
Easton Ortiz
>forms of entertainment. Spot the mutt
Brayden Gonzalez
Wasn't all the rulers in lotr corrupted/crazy/greedy
Hunter Powell
How wide does your mouth go when watching an episode of GoT?
Alright, so where's Gurm's tax policy discussions? What's that, it's just half a page of Tyrion and CIA talking about how they need mo' money?
Wyatt Lopez
He is right and is amazing how triggered are LOTR fans. It's also amazing how the only way they can react is in their usual alt-righter fashion of turning things into memes and not taking them seriously.
Daniel Moore
>What's his fucking problem? Boomerism. Their philosophy is perfectly symbolized by a head being stuck up an ass.
Joseph Fisher
What was Ned Stark tax policy? Martin doesn't even abide by his own standard. The economics of his world make no sense at all.
Caleb Foster
How wide does your get when you watch wizards, hobbits and elves fighting orcs?
Dylan Cooper
Honestly LOTR trilogy was DUMBED DOWN much more from Tolkien books than what Game of Thrones was untill they finished source material.
>I need a high degree of realism in my fantasy because I am unimaginative and unable to grasp hypothetical concepts Was GRRM a high functioning autist?
Jayden Martinez
it wasnt literally about tax policy. it was about going beyond mythology and incorporating more elements of the actual middle ages. which, btw, Shakespeare did before him, at times in an "ugly" way too. tragedy necessitates ugliness.
Carter Hughes
>Stop exploring things I don't like in my genre
Austin Reed
>criticizes Tolkien for lack of post-climax realism >LITERALLY COPIES THE CLIMAX OF LOTR FOR HIS MAGNUM OPUS
Blake Smith
How many times have you made this thread, you absolute schizo?
Joshua Myers
>3 episodes left How much screen time will we see devoted to tax policies?
Xavier Martin
>My books have so much more depth than Tolkien's >sells out and lets 2 fags completely ruin it and becomes so lazy he doesn't even finish it
Jonathan Lee
Probably now the the literal forces of evil, the zombies, the evil dragon and the time-travelling and omniscient wizard boy's arcs are completed, he can start working on the bill of rights for the survivors and determining their tax brackets, while devoting a couple pages on Danny's stool.
Isaiah Gutierrez
bascially just listen to your council/generals and you'll be fine
Henry Martin
>councilors can't be self serving, treacherous, or just plain stupid
Daniel Cruz
Well considering that Westeros has gone through 1000+ years of medieval feudalism, any real threat is probably gone with the magic elements.
Jordan Barnes
The problem is that he is a hack. But he got some inspiration and made a series of books that somehow got notoriety from some HBO big guys that made his franchise into a television blockbuster. With so much fame, pretty much like power, the success went for his head and now he thinks he is the big shit, the result is that he becomes a pseud, acting like his forced and arrogant opinions are worth shit.
Noah Price
Tolkien was concerned with creating his own mythology that spanned thousands of years, not giving the nitty-gritty on tax policy. That's why this quote is retarded
Jeremiah Green
BUT THINK OF THE ORC BABIES
Elijah Robinson
he didn't say that tolkien should have focussed on tax policy instead. he is expressing that he is craving for something beyond mythology, something more down-to-earth
If I wanted to read about tax policy, or "something more down-to-earth" I would read anything related to my country, not fantasy books >inb4 muh realism Realism is not a modifier for being better or worse
Blake Miller
it didnt actually really happen so it doesnt matter if they "gone through" 1000s of years of something or not
>oh dinosaurs existed millions of years ago and "westeros" was inhabited by them, but 10.000 years ago evil mages made great sacrificial pits to burn dinosaur remains. However these pits were destroyed by meteors in a great catastrophe 5000 years ago so there is actually no single piece of evidence that dinosaurs existed or should have existed and were burned by ancient mages but I'll write it down anyway.
Andrew Morgan
>something more down-to-earth >literal zombie Hitler >army of the dead >dragons both as plot devices and fantasy elements >that deus ex machina green fire explosions (hurr durr greek fire) >time-travelling wizard boy >literal forest creatures with magic powers . . . And my personal favorite: >Jon gets resurrected
Ayden Cooper
His books are about people that can mind control dragons and prophesies of the old gods.
Carson Moore
>LITERALLY COPIES THE CLIMAX OF LOTR FOR HIS MAGNUM OPUS
Arya stands before King Jon Snew. She begins to bow.
"My Friend, you bow to no one.", Jon says.
With that, everyone bows down to the teleporting teenage girl assassin. Then Goose the Space Cat moonwalks across the screen.
The End.
William Powell
I disagree. That probably was Martin's intention, but the way he went about expressing it sounds more like he missed the point of what Tolkien was trying to achieve with LOTR. He should've compared the overall objectives of his works compared to Tokien's instead of asking for Aragrorn's genocide policies
Elijah Ross
Tolkien envy is very common
Tyler Evans
>Aragorn and Gandalf bring all the armies of men to distract Sauron, so that Frodo can destroy the ring, which also destroys his control over his armies and the Nazgul
>Jon et al. plan to distract the NK in order to deliver a killing blow that will automatically make all others and zombies die instantly
Jayden White
well GRRM has taken Tolkien and moved him towards Shakespeare. that's not a statement about the quality of his writing just about the direction: insertion of tragedy into the fantasy genre. here, fantasy, as opposed to the middle ages for Shakespeare, forms the backdrop for the unfolding drama. i just doubt GRRM has it in him to finish off his drama with skillful catharsis. it's a tall order to ask for in any case. living up to aristotle or shakespeare, that is. as for tax policy, as i have said, that is just a stand-in for the nitty-gritty details of a medieval world, as opposed to mythology glossing over such things.
Luke Wilson
this so much >tries to make a realistic fantasy world that isn't simple
>SO THERE IS THIS KING AND HE IS ACTUALLY MAD BECAUSE OF INCEST AND HE IS INVULNERABLE TO FIRE AND HIS KIDS CAN TAME DRAGONS ALSO BECAUSE I FIGURED OUT TOO LATE IN SUCH A COMPLICATED WORLD WITH INTERESTING CHARACTERS I CREATED A UNIVERSAL BAD GUY THAT IS LITERALLY DEAD SO NOW DEAD IS THE UNIVERSAL ENEMY ALSO I TRIED TO BE SUCH A GREAT WRITER THAT I AM NOW IMPOSSIBLE TO FINISH THE SERIES BECAUSE I MADE IT WAY TO COMPLICATED TO MAKE IT COOL SO I LET MYSELF GET KEKED AND LET OTHERS FINISH IT IN THE SIMPLEST NORMIE WAY POSSIBLE
Thomas Parker
Best part of these threads is that the autists that get angry about this quote are movieonlyfags LARPing as book readers.
yes. unlike Shakespeare, his backdrop is fantasy. so all of that is fine. the quality of his work will be judged based on whether there is a point to all of it, at the end. if he can do that, he will live on as a great writer, even beyond the genre. if he can't or dies, he'll merely be one of the most successful fantasy authors.
Jaxson Gomez
Is it safe to say that George RR Martin is a fat fucking fraud?
Anthony Wilson
if u think ur literate because u read a few fantasy books without ending I lmao at ur life, I read a lot of classics and only watched GOT but know it's such shit and the books will never be finished that I'm not even borrowing them from a friend
GRRM doesnt use anything of shakespeare and his views of middle ages are not "gritty" but just edgylord tier
Landon Green
t. buttmad showfags
Landon Sullivan
>tries to make a realistic fantasy world that isn't simple i dont think the point is being super-realistic. the point is being authentic to the medieval world, picking up on historical events or tropes and inserting them into fantasy.
Brody Cook
>Ruling is hard. But in his books, rulers do fine as long as they're not complete idiots / insane.
Landon Clark
Even worse If I wanted to see something about tax policy or something more down to earth, I would watch Pawn Stars
>He wrote Morgoth put humans in cages and raised them like animals for generations so they would breed with anything even orcs Tolkien predicted americans?
Gotta love the administrative structure of Faith of the Seven. Their hierarchy goes: >High Septon >Septon Bravo Martin! Can you be more primitive? The historical medieval Catholic hierarchy was complex, it needed to be. It went: >Pope >Archbishop >Bishop >Archdeacon >Priest >Deacon >Subdeacon >Pastor Each of them having their own jurisdiction.
William Roberts
>Also I don't think Martin is the only one to try a more gritty approach Certainly not. If you're interested in a good (critical) take on GRRM, the second half of this video is pretty good: youtube.com/watch?v=iePTjdDXslM
Oliver Johnson
Well, to be fair, the Orthodox organization was/is a great Patriarch and mutiple others autocephalus priests. But even then, shit was even more greater than Martin's shitty faith Also, no one gives a shit about religion on Westeros, and turns out people are more violent, wicked and immoral. What Martin mean by this?
Zachary Morales
>tfw an RTS and MMO's villain has more depth to his character than the villain built up for 8 seasons of an "award winning" show
Levi Jackson
>Also, no one gives a shit about religion on Westeros This, religion was very integrated into daily life in every post-classical society, but Westeros might as well be secular.
Julian Sullivan
Martin tried to copy Christianity with the faith of the seven but its still shit.
Gabriel Taylor
>Angry for being called out as LARPer >Le War of the Roses meme. >Pic of a dramatized history book of The War of the Roses for high schoolers as if it was high literature. >Yea Forums asks itself why other boards laugh at them. Here, a sci-fi book that will teach you more about physics than the drawings on that book about history.
Proofs? "Ruler X surely had my meme syndrome" doesn't count as proving.
Hudson Rogers
It feels like Martin didn't even thought about that until someone told him in the last minute >"heh, my tax policy is done, finally i can publish" >"what about religion" >"oh, uh, hey, tax policy"
Lucas Flores
Because for decades everyone was sure technology would liberate man and then they all saw it melt the faces off their friends and decided to turn away from it all and pen their thoughts over such sorrow.
Anthony Cook
If Martin's world shared the same religions as Earth, his story wouldn't have credibility. Instead, he puts religion on the background, because the point of his books are "people are bad, get over it".
Grayson Parker
They had cannons in the middle ages yet they dont have gunpowder in Westeros, Martin is a fucking hack.
Brandon Williams
>Over three hundred years of practice >Not a single heresy Bravo Martin!
Sebastian Martinez
There is a tax policy?
Nicholas Hughes
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Yes....and? Orcs are, by nature, evil. They are bred to kill, they don't reproduce on their own and they don't know how to lead a peaceful life, neither do they have any interest in.
Ian James
Wheres the religious diversity in Essos, the continent where human civilization actually began in Martin?
Logan Rogers
Of course not, and that's why joke is on Martin
Carter Morales
Well there’s the assassin cult, whatever the Dothraki does and other Essos states also seems to have their own thing
You're still far too proud of having read a couple of shite books.
After you've read a few hundred, you can play with us.
Luke Jenkins
Oh, I read Raft, probably before you were born. Mediocre. Like all Baxter books: sounds good on the cover blurb, but is weak in the execution.
Christian Howard
Tolkien and Martin both wrote/write FANTASY. They're both entitled to make their fantasy worlds as close to or as far from real life as possible. Martin has no right to say Tolkien fucked up because "obviously there would still be orcs left" and Tolkien fans can't say that Martin's books are somehow not "real medieval fantasy" because he adds degeneracy.
Kayden White
There is no real reason why there couldn't be gunpowder, it wouldn't change things that much. Gunpowder weapons during the Late Medieval Period were pretty ineffective, expensive and uncommon, and unstable (Ottoman's artillery engineer died when one of his cannons exploded).
Camden Nguyen
Maybe he means that tolkien didnt run into a line of machine guns and was gunned down?
Leo Myers
western tragedy has a long tradition of dealing with perversion
Noah Anderson
>Implying to have read more than 5 obligatory books in high school. >"I'm old and have read all his books but I can only use general terms because if I go to specifics my bullshit will be discovered." Come on Yea Forums, at least try not to sound like the normalfags you are.
Thomas Harris
>imagine being stuck in medieval times for 1000s of years >not able to mix saltpeter and sulphur from wildfire with charcoal >not even able to use a sightseer who can see in the FUTURE to create m16's >still believing this shit show
Colton Murphy
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles? Jesus Christ what a dumb faggot, did he even read any Tolkien? Orcs are purely evil beings they have no possibility at redemption and must be exterminated, is that so hard to grasp, fat man?
THIS GUY is a fucking retard. Tolkien wrote LOTR after he came back from WW1 and his soul was shattered. One of the reasons the ending has Frodo all fucked up with PTSD and with wounds that will never heal is to show what many of the veterans had once hte war was over. Tolkien was never going to talk about Aragorn's economic policy or stuff like that since the entire story was not about that
Specifically, Baxter can't write characters for shite, they're all colorless cut outs. In his plotting, he starts well and points towards an interesting idea, but can't seem to come up with a conclusion that doesn't seem rushed, and what he ends up giving the reader usually just involves Americans being cunts and everything blowing up.
And I've probably read about a dozen of his books, so gave him a fair shot, but he always disappoints.
Game of Thrones is the most retarded and soulless franchise of all time. I don’t know why Normies keep liking it and Harry Potter.
Hudson Bell
Game of Thrones is just ugly actually Everything has to be gritty and dark, there is no such thing as good Harry Potter is quite the opposite, even Voldemort was a pussy and acted like a fairy
Luke Wood
In my [chews big mac] book A Game of Wieners, Tyrion Lannister [takes a big scoop of Butterfinger Bar ice cream] demands Trial by Wiener Combat in order to [snorts corn syrup] be freed from the Eyrie, a castle [guzzles lard] built on a mountain shaped like a [keels over from a heart attack] wiener.
>Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles Making all the orcs explode after pippin stabs Sauron with a ninja move would have been better, right?
Parker Martin
Yes, obviously. You thought Aragorn and Frodo were the heroes? SUBVERTED
>this is just like LOTR guys! I notice incels do this a lot, while SJWs do it with Harry Potter
why?
Jayden King
Both come from the same place: Reddit
Wyatt Ross
His problem is that he's bitter about being a third-rate Tolkien derivative like all fantasy authors. He also doesn't really understand LotR, but most people don't, either. Peter Jackson didn't at all.
