Imagine if he survived

When? I don't remember?

Imagine if the show still had good writing so that we wouldn't constantly be missing characters that died 4 seasons ago.

>i fucking binged all of GoT over the last two weeks just to be able to watch the last episodes live
>they're fucking shit

the show started going bad when he died but it really took a massive downturn in this last season

Lannister army would be at Winterfell, because he'd be smart enough to take the undead threat seriously once he actually saw one. Also, he probably would have brokered a peace with Dany long before then. When he was Hand and in KL under Joffrey, he was clearly aware of the dragons' existence when they were small and accepted it as truth, didn't dismiss them, so he'd obviously have been smart enough to closely monitor their development. Once he realized these suckers are getting bigger, he would have bent over backwards to give Dany anything she wanted to spare him and House Lannister. Mountain's head, total loyalty of the West, all the gold under Casterly Rock, his and Tyrion's vast political experience, etc. Show Tywin was well aware of the capabilities of dragons, he gave Arya a lecture on it while they sat in fucking Harrenhal, which was the mightiest fortress ever, nuked by dragons. Tywin doesn't pick the losing side, he would have been Dany's staunchest supporter, desperately trying to buy her goodwill. The political plot would then largely focus on Tywin trying to keep Cersei under control, since her selfish short-sightedness and desire to be queen would be a constant problem that Tywin would have no easy answer to.

Army of the Living would have proper tactics. No cavalry front line, trench in front of ground infantry, archers and artillery behind walls and elevated, constant stream of missile fire while trench and infantry hold the line. Regardless of outcome, the Living would have put up a much better fight under his guidance.

And as icing on the cake, in Winterfell, he'd meet Arya again, realize who she is/was, and have his mind blown that he had the missing Stark girl under his nose the whole time. Arya probably would have been chomping at the bit to kill him, though, as revenge for the Red Wedding. It would have undermined the defense of Winterfell and made for good tension.

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Cersei is nothing like Tywin. She has no idea of politics, military strategy or mantaining the loyalty of your subjects. Luckily for her, the writing has gone to shit and she was given massive plot armor.

If the Sept of Baelor attack had happened pre-S4, Cersei would have been realistically beheaded for blowing up the Vatican with several noble families inside, and if Tommen died a Lannister branch from Casterly Rock would have assumed the throne following the logical line of succession.

There is no way she could have held power without Lannister support which would have dissappeared the moment she blew up the Sept and tried to take over. Let alone control of the Reach, Dorne, the Riverlands which by now are basically ignored in the show and we don't even know who rules them.

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I both love and hate how anons on this mongolian pet-shaming forum can come up with much better shit than the official releases of pretty much everything

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>Ned is smuggled out of KL by Varys because he wants to weaken the Baratheon's/Lannister's position in KL prior to the Targs landing in Westeros to reclaim the Throne
>Makes it back to Winterfell after spending some time hidden in the Vale or in the Riverlands to recuperate in secret or something
>the girls are still trapped in KL and Robb is still in charge of the North when he gets back
what changes?

>ned

>Reach, Dorne, the Riverlands which by now...we don't even know who rules them.

Without defending the show's bad writing, I think that may be the point. The main characters aren't the only ones taking casualties, most of the houses of westeros have likely suffered big losses during the recent wars, so it wouldn't surprise me if those lands were basically in anarchy right now because there's literally nobody alive to govern them.

Take a look at Houses Umber and Karstark up in the North; their lords are just kids now because all the adults got whacked. I bet that's a very common occurrence. Distant relatives are suddenly finding themselves "in charge" because the other 15 people in front of them in the succession got Red Wedding'd or Green Trial'd, and they're just trying to keep their goddamn heads down because they saw what happens when you play the Game of Thrones. Somebody fucking kills you. All these noob lords are just trying to survive by pretending they're not there.

Tywin would not be able to control Dany. 0 chance he'd support her claim. Also his entire motivation is the legacy of the Lannisters, no chance he'd give up Casterly Rock or any of that other nonsense you wrote

It occurred to me some time ago that Tywin is one of the few truly intelligent characters in the series.

I stopped watching when he died

When he planned to have Cersei marry Loras after discovering their plot to marry him to Sansa.

well the rebellion might still come but yeah. Realistically the nobles would be funding an uprising against her

I think like other anons said a few details like supporting Dany would need to be ironed out, but overall yea, I agree, well written and thoughtful development. he's a reasonable and endlessly clever man bent on the preservation of his house, he doesn't need to be king if he can control the coins instead

If he survived, Dany would've definitely Harrenhal'd his ass desu.

He's literally the lead name in the show now, he's the "good" guy and isn't going anywhere

>Ned dodges execution in Season 1, ends up in the North with Robb, what changes.

Right off the bat, peace between Starks and Lannisters is now a realistic possibility, even if unlikely to happen and would be strained at best if it did happen. Ned's execution was what made peace impossible, the North could never forgive that.

If Ned is alive, then there may not be a declaration for King in the North, since that seems to have been triggered by Ned's execution. If that's the case, an alliance with Stannis is the most likely move for the Starks. Ned was the one who warned Stannis about Cersei's incest in the first place, thus getting Stannis in the game at all. This may, however, result in no Battle of the Black Water; the Starks would not want to attack King's Landing when they believe the Lannisters still have Sansa & Arya, or at the very least no Stark involvement down there. If Battle of the Black Water happens and there's no Stark support, then Blackwater result is the same, and Starks are alone again until Stannis washes up North.

Meanwhile, Frey/Bolton betrayal might not happen. Freys betrayed because Robb didn't honor his oath to marry a Frey girl; if Ned were alive, that oath might never have been made in the first place, or Robb may have not ever met the healer girl, and kept his vow. Freys would have been cemented as allies, Boltons would not have thought Starks vulnerable, so no Red Wedding.

However, there's still the Iron Born. Cont'd next....

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Eddard would be able to keep Catelyn from doing retarded shit like freeing Jamie. Both sides would be more willing to negotiate peace, since Eddard isn't executed. This results in the North/Robb being less pissed, and they still have Jamie and could threaten to kill/harm him, which Tywin would never allow.

>Take a look at Houses Umber and Karstark up in the North; their lords are just kids now because all the adults got whacked. I bet that's a very common occurrence. Distant relatives are suddenly finding themselves "in charge" because the other 15 people in front of them in the succession got Red Wedding'd or Green Trial'd, and they're just trying to keep their goddamn heads down because they saw what happens when you play the Game of Thrones. Somebody fucking kills you. All these noob lords are just trying to survive by pretending they're not there.
I'd be fine with that outcome (a return to a more primitive and fragmented feudalism as it happened IRL when Rome fell) if the show had actually addressed it. Before, you had these complex, realistic houses and inter-familiar relationships, the major houses like the Lannisters had several branches, distant cousins, uncles, and lower houses with their own fiefdoms sworn to them, but all of that was basically handwaved away as the show got dumbed down. Cersei blows up the Sept and it's not mentioned ever again. There are no consequences. We don't see how the Lannisters in Casterly Rock (logical heirs after Tommen dies) react to it. We don't see other houses react to it. We don't see the ground troops react to it. We don't see rebellions, uprisings, a struggle to mantain control. Cersei just took over and keep control with no challenges and no questions asked. Arya poisons the entire Frey family, we never see how, or what happens afterwards. It is never addressed again. Littlefinger is killed and not a single Knight of the Vale steps to defend him, yet they were willing to die for him, fighting in the Battle of the Bastards two episodes before.

Good storytelling and complex world building are sacrificed again and again for "muh badass action sequence" and "yassssw kween slay".

Rewatching the earlier seasons of GoT is like watching an entirely different show.

Tullys are a bunch of newfags who are lucky that Aegon showed up

>If Battle of the Black Water happens and there's no Stark support, then Blackwater result is the same
If the North declares for Stannis with a respected leader like Eddard leading them then that might convince the Reach to ally with them over Renly, at which point the Battle for Blackwater is a foregone conclusion due to King's Landing being caught in a pincer

The last adult character.

I was so desperately hoping he would become like Postlethwaite in The Lost World. Just a badass methodical monster hunter. I always envisioned that he would ultimately put the survival of House Lannister above absolutely anything else in a magic dragon whitewalker wheelchairboy war

Tully is by far the most pathetic major house.
>Blackwoods are stronger than them
>Mooton is stronger than them
>Even house fucking Frey can wield a larger army than the Tully's

Why the fuck were they ever the overlords of the Riverlands when their house is so weak?

yep, I couldnt even put it into words about why this all sucked so much but this is true. I dont technically have a problem with Arya somehow killing all the freys. Fine, I mean lets continue this crazy hero storyline. It's not entirely impossible. But you'd imagine that wiping out an entire house's leadership should have some kind of reverberation in the land. A new house, infighting, something. If there is no effect of this then it's bad storytelling. Although I do hate the entire Arya storyline, I have to admit that. It could be a different tv show, there is no reason for it and it's totally overpowered. Plus, didnt they say that they would kill her for betraying the faceless? she failed the training and attacked the others right. So apparently all these master ultra perfect assassins who actually succeed at their training cant find a shitty assassin that failed at it.

Cont'd.

When the Stark forces go south, below Moat Cailin, the Iron Born use this opportunity to attack the coastline of the now undefended North. This would happen regardless of Ned's survival. Most importantly, they capture Moat Cailin itself, the only passage North, thus trapping the Stark host in the South.

Would Winterfell fall, though? This depends on Theon. If Ned were alive, would Theon still betray? Maybe. Theon's motive to betray seemed to be ambition and revenge for being taken a hostage by the Starks. However, maybe Ned would have realized Balon Greyjoy couldn't be trusted, so he would have held onto Theon extra-tight now, not letting him leave for the Iron Islands. Let's assume Ned would have been smart enough to not let Theon go.

With Theon still a hostage, maybe Balon would have held back. However, when Theon initially returns to the Iron Islands, it's clear that Balon considers Yara his true heir, so maybe Balon'd attack the North anyway, writing off Theon as dead already. If that happened, would Ned execute Theon? That's the implied threat of taking a hostage, after all. That could have been a big moral dilemma and the source of much drama. If Ned held back, though, I think Theon's loyalty would have been 100% pro-Stark at that point. Theon just watched his own father give him up for dead, and his supposed "jailer" show him more compassion than his own father ever did. Theon would declare himself for Stark. The Iron Born would never go inland as far as Winterfell, so Bran and Rickon never have to flee. They are, however, trapped in the North with Ironborn to their west and South.

So how do the Starks shore up the beleagured North? Maybe Ned sends Robb with a small force to sneak past Moat Cailin to meet up with Ramsey's forces, who at this point is still a relatively unknown quantity. Uh oh. Cont'd....

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I still see Loras going against Stannis, he was Renly's lover. He'd likely force the Reach to go against Stannis, or at least cause a schism between his anti-Stannis faction and the pro-Stark faction. I can see a furious Loras, now calling himself the Prince of Thorns, leading a bunch of gung-ho and romantic young knights in an initially benevolent, but increasingly violent, campaign against Stannis's forces.

I know Catelyn Stark def liked the idea of Robb Stark marrying Margery Tyrell, maybe she'd roll the dice on slighting the Freys if it meant getting Highgarden on their side. If she did that, then it would open up the possibility of the Red Wedding again, this time with Ned and the Tyrells in attendance (remember, it was Edmure Tully's marriage to a Frey girl, with the married Robb in attendance with his wife). That'd be a nightmare.

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Cont'd.
I farted.
Cont'd....

Ok, so lets say no Red Wedding, and Robb has gone North to defend Winterfell from encroaching Ironborn to the west and south. His right-hand man is Ramsey Snow, who at this point is an unknown quantity. I can see Ramsey using the campaign as a cover for his cruelty, flaying the ironborn. He'd obviously butt heads with Robb a few times, it might result in violence. If it does, this might cause a small civil war in the North between Robb and Ramsey, while Roose and Ned are south and ostensibly at peace with each other. When word reaches them, idk how it would go. I know Ned would order Roose to put a leash on Ramsey. Would Roose listen? I know the Boltons have always coveted dominion of the North and they have an ancient feud with the Starks, but at this point the Starks aren't as weak as in the main timeline where the Red Wedding takes place, so Roose might not think this is a good time to press that claim. Let's pause there in the North.

Back down south, let's say Stannis still assassinates Renly and takes his stormlords. What does Highgarden do? This user mentions the idea of the Tyrells siding with Starks/Stannis because of Ned being a respected leader , and I fiddle with the idea of Robb and Margery marrying here , but I think Tyrells will still ultimately side with Lannisters. Loras will never forgive his lover's murderer and Margery wants to be *the* Queen. No King in the North in my timeline, so Robb is just a lord's heir, whereas Joffrey is a current king. So, Tyrells still lobby to side with Lannisters, but there's a hitch; the Lannisters still have Sansa. Joff marrying Margery would secure the Tyrell alliance, but since peace is now still possible between Starks and Lannisters and no Red Wedding opportunity, Tywin may want to honor the Sansa/Joffrey marriage as way to help broker a peace with the Starks, and poach them from Stannis.

Autism

He died right before the show turned to shit, so in hindsight he was the lucky one.

Twyin's death was the first irredeemably bullshit moment in the dhow

I was thinking, there are a couple things in the story that don't make sense. Everyone hates Jaime for betraying his king, but no one hates Twyn for lying to the Targaryens and saying he wanted to help defend the city, then sacking it when his troops were allowed in. It was the only time the city was sacked in recent memory, shouldn't most of the people alive there remember it and hate all Lannisters with a passion? Isn't what he did a violation of guest rights?

Also, why did the Targs flee to Essos, they were loved in Dorne, they could have gone to Sunspear.

The population of KL does hate the Lannisters exactly for that reason but they can't rise up

>Tywin proposes a treaty with Night King to sacrifice one thousand infants annually
>He invites all the White Walkers to commemorate peace and friendship
>Rains of Castamere starts playing
>Crossbowmen shoot dragonglass bolts and massacre White Walkers, ending the threat once and for all
>"And who, are you..."

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more just writefagging, or I guess plotfagging
pretty based, taking apart stories and piecing them together is how you yourself become a good writer

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Thanks, see below.

I think Tywin would ultimately decide on Joffrey marrying Margery for the same reasons as in the main timeline; he needs the Tyrell support to fight Stannis at the Blackwater, and the Tyrells take advantage of this pressing need to get the big concession, Margery being queen.

So Stannis loses Blackwater, goes North. Margery marries Joffrey, and we get the Purple Wedding again for the same reasons, Tyrells think Joff is a psycho. Sansa still gets whisked away by Littlefinger as Joffrey dies, but they likely wouldn't go to the Vale if Ned and Catelyn are still alive, they'd go to them. Littlefinger would try to insert himself as their adviser, while trying to discretely get Ned killed so he can marry Catelyn.

Unless Joffrey kills her first. It's clear that Joff is a psycho and it seems that Ned was his first kill. If Ned escaped execution, but Sansa's still in his clutches, he may take out his frustration on her, ultimately killing her as another traitor. If that happens, then no peace between Starks and Lannisters is possible. But let's split the difference, say Sansa survives but is much more scarred from Joffrey's increased attentions. Starks are shocked.

What happens to Arya? I think she'd escape KL at the same time Ned would, but her story remains unchanged until she meets up with the Starks in the Riverlands. Remember, in main timeline, she went there but arrived just outside as the Red Wedding was happening. That's where she met the Hound, and then eventually fucked off to Braavos. If no Red Wedding, then ultimately no Faceless Men training, so no Arya killing NK at Battle of Winterfell. She just meets up with family, big happy reunion. Maybe she continues her waterdancer training, but she doesn't become nearly as deadly as in show/books. She may still seek revenge for Sansa's treatment, though.

Let's jump back to the North with Robb and Ramsey.

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Autism isn’t necessarily a bad thing friend. Nor did I want to imply I didn’t like your post. Still autistic though Faggot. Mostly because the thread was about the big nigga tywin surviving not neddard.

I take it back your a wight night. Fuck you I was talking to our creative autistic friend.

He’s too based for D&D fanfiction.

Imagine if he survived

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see ¨
They would just ruin his character even more. Hope he manages to take Winterfell in the books.

Back up North, Robb & Ramsey have themselves a little war. Because neither of them have more than a few hundred men, it's more a series of skirmishes. At some point while Robb is out of Winterfell, Ramsey attacks and sacks the place. Bran and Rickon escape, flee north, have their Three Eyed Raven/Beyond the Wall plot. With Winterfell a ruin, Robb and his hundred or so guys also flee north to Castle Black, hoping to find the younger brothers and see if Jon Snow and the Night's Watch can do anything to help. Robb and Co end up helping Jon and NW defend Wall against Mance's Wildling army, because of course he'd help out his brother.

Sacking Winterfell is the straw that breaks the camel's back between Stark and Bolton. At this point, perhaps Roose and Littlefinger had already decided to use the Northern conflict as a way to dispose of Ned since the Southern war is dying down a bit. Stark army is able to travel north again since Robb/Ramsey took back Moat Cailin first thing.

Now stuck in a three-front war (North, South, and West against ironborn), Starks are in trouble, but not out of the fight. Tywin, sensing weakness, does not initiate any hostilities but does begin to position himself to strike in case an opportunity presents itself.

Help arrives in the form of Stannis, who's remaining forces, having landed North of the wall and just kicked the wilding army's ass, is now marching south to help out the Stark's northern front. Stannis and Starks never broke their alliance, so this works out. Stannis helps recapture Winterfell and evens the odds against the Boltons.

Next is Jon Snow's story.

The whole point is the show turned to shit partly BECAUSE he died. D&D, on top of not having any book material left, now didn't have a character whose dialogue and strategic thinking required they put forth any actual effort in their writing (and these are smart Jew fucks and can write quality dialogue when they want to, we’ve covered this in many other threads). They knew full well normies would accept whatever bullshit Tyrion spewed as the apex of wit (“I drink and I know things”) so Tyrion became the only source of “intelligent political commentary”, since the average retard watching literally didn’t need another one. Tywin’s death rekt the writing for characters like Littlefinger and Varys because they had no one they needed to keep up with, and D&D will never miss an opportunity to stick to the absolute bare minimum, so we got these former intrigue masterminds turned into completely aimless morons plotting into the wind. One got bested by fucking Sansa + Arya in the most inexplicable manner possible (yas kween) and now watch Daenerys burn Varys when ‘he betrays her’ like she warned him before this shitshow is over.

He is none of those things. He is a bull headed retard who can only think in the short term which ultimately leads to his houses decline.

>imagine if he survived

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Tywin owned every scene he was in, he was amazing

Kevan was so fucking Based in the books, him being basically as smart and cunning as Tywin was a pleasant suprise.
The show absolutely butchered him, but atleast they made him one of the few chars from the show to actually stand up to Cersei and her bullshit.

>Kevan Lannister tried to cry out … to his guards, his wife, his brother … but the words would not come.

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In the books, when Joffrey wants to give Sansa her brother's head as a wedding gift, Kevan is the first person at the table to speak up against it.
>Kevan's own son was murdered in Stark custody months earlier
>Tyrion explicitly says Kevan was devastated by the loss
>he STILL defends the Starks' daughter even though the Starks didn't defend his son

reminder that King Tommen + Queen Margaery with Tywin or Kevan as Hand was unambiguously the best possible outcome for the realm

He was the best character. The most intelligent too. Hence why he had to throw away all his characterization and be banging some whore his disgusting son was fucking just to spite Tyrion because...reasons? It certainly wasn't in his character, Tywin loathed Tyrion, but he wasn't so base as to play epic multiyear long pranks on Tyrion and share his son's chlamydia when he could just pay a bunch of his men to run a train on her in front of him (like the peasant girl).

But he was too clever to continue to let live, with Tywin in the picture most of the post civil war plot simply wouldn't have happened, so Tywin had to get yanked off stage so fat fuck wouldn't have to think of a smart way to defeat his best character.

one of the few things the show did right was cast Dance, and gave Tywin a couple good scenes

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Jon's story is virtually unchanged up until the Battle for the Wall against Mance's Wildlings. The difference is that Robb is at his side with about 100 Stark men-at-arms. Robb marches South with Stannis while Jon remains at the Wall. Jon, now Lord Commander, still lets the Wildlings in. This causes something of a rift between Robb and Ned with Jon, but I feel like they'd eventually come around as they grow to understand the threat of the WWs.

Back south, the Starks have basically run out of reasons to keep fighting the war of the Five Kings; they have all of their family members back from the Lannisters now, but Stannis still expects them to keep fighting, especially now that he helped defend the Wall and retake Winterfell. Stannis leans on these actions hard to keep the Starks in the war to the South, while he takes care of the Bolton rebellion in the North. Maybe Stannis and Robb make a disastrous attack on the Dreadfort and get killed/captured by the Boltons. This would trigger the Starks to rush North to save Robb, and make Jon try to take the Wildlings south to do the same, triggering the mutiny/assassination against him.

And at this point, I'm gonna call it a night. In summary, I think Ned's survival would not really change the ultimate trajectory of the story, just lessening some of the atrocities along the way.

Agreed. A competent administrator with two sweethearts as the final veto to keep his ruthlessness in check. Maybe swap out Tywin for Tyrion, since Tyrion is less prone to violence (but still ruthless when he needs to be).

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I don't think it was out of character for Tywin to fuck whores secretly, he'd been a widower for decades and it's clearly not considered that serious of a sin in ASOIAF. His problem with Tyrion whoring was that Tyrion did it very publicly and threw it in everyone's faces, just like Tywin's father let his mistress wear his mother's jewels and walk around the castle.

fuck i really hate those hack at hbo quarters

>if Tommen died a Lannister branch from Casterly Rock would have assumed the throne following the logical line of succession.
There could have been a power grab, but it wouldn't have been justified with line of succession.
You need to understand that Baratheons justified their claim via their grandmother; primogeniture doesn't give a shit about the consort's family.

He doesn't have to control her. She would destroy herself. But while she commanded dragons there was no way to beat her in the open field. So Tywin would manipulate some other house or army into hurling themselves at Dany, see how they fared, and if they got blown the fuck out Tywin would approach Dany as a peace maker-sure we can't defeat you in the long run, but war with us would leave you queen of a smoking ash heap. So she becomes queen, taking her only trump card-dragons-off the table, and is forced to rule over a malcontented populace bitter at this mad queen seizing power with a foreign army, her dragons ravaging the country side and further turning the people against her. Odds are Stannis would've tried to fight her as well, further alienating Baratheon supporters when he inevitably lost, cementing Dany's ascendancy not as a legitimate Westerosian claim but a foreign invasion. Since Dany lacks any political intrigue Tywin would effortlessly outmaneuver her at court, filling up the councils with allies utterly hostile to Dany. She would be making blunder after blunder, or tricked into doing so, all while her Dothraki army acts like bandits and her dragons destroy foodstuffs. Dany would only last as long as Tywin found her useful before she would be found one morning with her throat slit in bed.

And since GRRM couldn't stomach this happening to his story he had Tywin killed off in the most ridiculous way possible.

THE KING WHO CARED. THE FIRELORD

Fuck you bookfags for spoiling his death. Made it that far without one of you fucking things up. I'm glad the retarded show ending is canon and you'll never get a final book.

So he would do what? Wage a land war against dragons? Hell no, he knows exactly how that goes down, Casterly Rock gets burnt. His only options are a) peace or b) assassination. He would only go for assassination if he was 100000% certain it would work, because if it was botched, guess who's prime suspect and getting their home burnt down.

It also depends on whether Tyrion still ends up Dany's Hand. If we're saying that Tyrion shot Tywin, but Tywin survived and Tyrion still fled across the Narrow Sea, there may be the chance for the two of them to convince Dany to spare him. However, Tyrion may want to finish the job, and might goad Dany into wasting Tywin. But if we're saying Tywin has survived until season 8 of the show, then that means he has to reckon with Dany eventually, and he's unlikely to spitefully oppose her the way Cersei is doing. I can see Tywin eventually staging a coup against Cersei and having her put under house arrest somewhere remote to minimize the odds of upsetting Dany. The Lannisters would already be on thin ice with her, Cersei would just be a liability. Tywin would absolutely do that.

I can also see this happening, Tywin falsely allying with Dany while trying to undermine her on the political aspect. But that's a dangerous game, Dany doesn't need anything resembling proof to Dracarys somebody, she can fry anybody she wants at any time. And unless Tyrion has somehow been removed as Dany's Hand, Tyrion can counteract Tywin's political maneuvering. But what happens when Tywin is confronted with the zombie threat? When he finally sees one with his own eyes? What does he do? Does he continue to manipulate and backbite? Or does he put it all aside for the sake of saving humanity (and by extension, House Lannister)? I feel like he's smart enough to recognize the need for unity and optimal cooperation. Even fucking Jaime figured that one out, why wouldn't Tywin do an immediate 180 the second he laid eyes on a zombie?

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Tywin certainly would be fucking whores, but not low class ones like Shae, and certainly not one that his dwarf son is plowing.

Except for the only whore we saw him fuck was Shae.

Checked

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Damn I actually enjoyed that. The things that could have been. Thanks man

>Imagine if he survived
what change?

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I only wish Stannis could have put Tywin's traitorous head on a pike, along with every one of his disgusting children. Every major house who wasn't Stark, Tully, or Baratheon (and the Arryn family of the Vale until Littlefinger had Lysa poison him) should have been summarily eliminated. Shame will never get to see Robert's Rebellion and see the real good guys win for once.

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I think he was talking abput Tyrion, not Jon Snow.

all of what you said is what makes the books the books, and what show only normies will never understand. the show is like a cartoon compared to the books, way too fucking much is lost in adaptation.

The walkers never make it past crasters

>imagine if Mel resurrected him and his army and he Helms Deep'd Winterfell via Bran crows leading him through the storm

Tywin was one of the best characters in the show and one of the pillars in the "game" of thrones itself. But he was a dumbass for underestimated Tyrion. In fact, it makes zero sense why he would have done that since he's trusted him to be hand of the king in his absence.
That being said, Tywin's death had a domino effect on the show. All the political players got either neutered or killed. Baelish and Olenna outright killed, Varys and Tyrion just thrown to the side to strenghten Dany, which in itself isn't really that much of an issue but jesus christ they're like shadows of their former selves.

Current Varys is like a little puppy dog, whereas in the early seasons he used to go head to head with Baelish. Unless he's playing the long con, but I doubt it. And Tyrion ironically has become the dumbass that his father took him for right after he died.

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Varys kills him with a crossbow and his little birds so Young Griff can have a better chance against Tommen right?

Yes, strongest houses united, smartest men backing them as advisors and even had the Faith through the High Sparrow united.

They could have rallied a crusade against the White Walkers.

>But he was a dumbass for underestimated Tyrion
You mean he overestimated Tyrion.

He knows Tyrion is smart, but when he made him Hand, though he did a good job he mostly whored around. He said numerous times to drop the whore - since it makes the family look bad (one of the big things Tywin cares about and tries to instill in his children) - but Tyrion fucks around anyway.

For reference, the ho' that was Tyrion first love got bought by Tywin to fuck his entire army. It's rough, but Tywin wants Tyrion to get his dick under control.

When Tyrion went up to his room with the crossbow Tywin stared him in the eye and said something along the lines of "Dude, I was gonna send you north to take the black - spooky shit is happening there apparently and I need you to be my eyes there, you think I was gonna kill you? You're my son"

He expected Tyrion to be as pragmatic and apathetic as him - logical decisions over emotions. He clearly was wrong

> muh family
> muh name

He never cared abou his children, only about his ego.

If you think about it, Tyrion going emotionally apeshit would have been the most likely reason for Tywin dying. Tywin couldn't have foreseen such a blatantly stupid idea to just waltz into the privy with a crossbow and shoot your own father. He also was assured that Tyrion was going to be executed and didn't suspect someone was going to plot with the most famous drunk, whore-mongering midget of Westeros for his escape.

Bran and Gendry are so handsome.

This. He cared about the idea of his family, but didn't give a shit about actually interacting with his family.

>started a war to liberate Tyrion from the Starks
>he never cared about his children
He is the epitome asian parent, he doesn't show it or say it, it should just be a given, now you should get on board and act for the betterment of the clan

Only because it would look bad for his family if Tyrion was captured

>one of my favorite characters
>still liked the way things turned out with him
it didn't feel forced unlike with stannis

based and yerrowpirred

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again, like most asian parents. Love isn't something you say or do, it's in the blood, it's in the inheritance, it's the fact that he provided food at the table and gave them an education. Tyrion was an ungrateful shit

>Tyrion was an ungrateful shit
Considering what happened with Tysha Tyrion has a right to hate his father

And he was also willing to murder him for something he knows Tyrion was innocent off

>He is the epitome asian parent
never occurred to me but it's completely true

>white parents: say they love you and care for you
>you become a neet
Starks

>mexican parents: slave over a hot stove and works hard to give you what they never had
>you either become a fat jolly man or a spoiled privileged gangsta
Baratheons

>black parents
>...
>you either become super successful from hard work caring for yourself or a spoiled privileged gangsta
Targaryens (minus the incest)

He wasn't, he was gonna send him North to take the Black, he was gonna tell him first thing in the morning but the Tyrion snuck up and killed him at night,

If he were at the Battle of Winterfell he still would have sent the Dothraki out first, but out of wanting to genocide the horse raping savages and not out of actual retardation

What about the Boltons? Are they gypsies?

to be fair shae was way above a low class whore by then

Surely there are ways to genocide them that would be less detrimental to the war effort!

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He'd probably be stabbed in the belly by the sneaky assassin troll.

Tywin wasn't even planning to execute Tyrion. In the privy scene he's saying, "Come on, dumbass, I wasn't about to ACTUALLY kill you. I had to say all that stuff in the throne room. But we'll work something out." Unfortunately Tyrion was still pissed about having his peasant girl raped.

I don't watch gotshit but holy shit is that the guy from last action hero?

I think most of their army just got rekt at the start of the war

don't know but he's charles dance

Ned would have backed Stannis for the throne and they would have steamrolled the Lannisters during blackwater. I doubt Renly would have had the balls to make a claim for the throne with the northern army teaming up with Stannis.

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Haven't been keeping up with the show since the shitfest of season 5. Is Euron alive or dead? Also whose your top five characters, fags?

>Euron Greyjoy
>Jorah Mormont
>Ramsay Bolton
>Tywin Lannister
>Bronn

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Theon wouldn't betray because Rob wouldn't go south. Ned would lead the army and Rob would take over winterfell.

He would be boycotted by the feminazis

>Tywin
>Tyrion (before becoming useless)
>Littlefinger
>Joffrey
>The Hound (I know he's memey but shut up)

kek

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>Tywin Lannister
>Stannis Baratheon
>Ramsay Bolton
>Robert Baratheon
>Ned Stark

>last action hero
Oh shit it is Benedict. Great actor, he was my favorite part about that movie

in a way i feel like tywin's death was also the death of tyrion's character. tyrion basically became a pointless quip machine after that point.

Kek

definitely. D&D can't write smart characters.

Tywin is an exception. Great character and probably the best acted character on the show.

He would have turned to shit just like other remaining smart characters. It takes a smart writer to pen a smart character and these two numbnuts can't do shit without the books

>If anyone could figure out how to put them down, it would be him.
or season 1-3 Tyrion

wasn't he a genius at making explosives, those would've been useful at the gates of Winterfell

>Tywin proposes a treaty with Night King to sacrifice one thousand infants annually
>*arya teleports behind his back*
>"he nothing personal old kid"
>"im just a girl" starts playing

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totally plausible if a midget was able to cap him on the shitter

yes

Bronn isn't dumb either, he's just not important enough to be playing the game of political intrigue.

Nah.
He’s not a retard and would know there’s no chance she’s gonna let him off the hook for betraying her father and his part in her nephew and nieces death.

The absolute travesty about Tyrion's character in the latter half of the show. Tyrion should have gone on some sort of soul searching during Season 5 or 6 to find out what his purpose really was, but he was almost demoted to plot device to become Daenerys's lacky. It's a real shame how much Tyrion devolved after Season 4.

Either put a focus on Tyrion's existential crisis after the fallout at King's Landing or have him written out of the majority of Season 5 to do two things
>Give the show more time to develop more important plots
>Have a cliffhanger surprise that Jorah delivers Tyrion to Daenerys with the audience not expecting it.

If they went the existential crisis route, they could have followed his same basic storyline of venturing through Essos but put more impact on the fact that Tyrion is actually starting to see more magical things (Dragons, Stone Men, and the Dothraki) and fundamentally change his character from nihilist bordering suicide to wonderstruck skeptic. That would lead to a harder hit of him becoming Dany's hand in deciding to join her to actually give himself a righteous purpose in his eyes.

That change would lead to better interactions between characters when he returned to Westeros in people seeing him become more openly kind, forgiving, and honorable but still be conflicted with serving the would-be conqueror of the Seven Kingdoms against everything he once cared for in Westeros.

What the fuck even happened to zombie Catelyn / Lady Stonecunt? Didn't watch the last few seasons of GoT.

doesn't even exist I don't think

Never doubt a master of real politik. Tywin managed to navigate many troubled waters with Many enemies. He took the weak house Lannister (generations of mismanagement) who’s bannermen we’re trying usurp them and turned them into one of the most powerful, respected and feared houses. He was able to be named hand to the king managed the kingdom so well no one cared about the kings madness. He dodged any bad losses during the rebellion, able to ingratiate himself to the winners despite not participating. He was able to get his family into royal succession, able to take down multiple kingdoms in rebellion. Tywin was truly the man. His only mistake is he should’ve killed Tyrion sooner.

At least we have sex unlike you.

remember when he designed a saddle for disabled Bran from scratch?
it should be a crime how this character was gutted and turned into comedic relief dwarf

Who else thinks the dwarf is going to become supreme ruler?

The realm prospers under king Tommen and Queen Margery for a while. The faith militant never become a major player in kings landing and the tyrells stay loyal to the crown. Hopefully the vale doesn't rebel against such overwhelming odds so Jons little rebellion gets put down as well.
Once word gets out that Daenarys has 3 large dragons and a dothraki horde Tywin bends the knee to her and convinces Tommen to surrender the throne until he figures out how to kill dragons.

dany burns him anyway for betraying her father

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They outright skipped her and her plot. She is just dead and buried on the show.

Why would Stannis make a bad king?

>Also whose your top five characters, fags?
>Tywin Lannister
>The Hound
>Bronn
>Robb Stark
>S1-S3 Tyrion

Too inflexible and stubborn. He had no sense of compromise, he communicated entirely in unreasonable ultimatums. Imagine if when he met Renly, he decided to team up with Renly. Let Renly be king and the "face" of the Baratheon regime while Stannis serves as Hand and did most the administrating. That would have created a plausible political arrangement, while keeping Reach and Stormlands united. No Tyrells would swoop into Battle of the Blackwater to save KL, so the Lannisters would have lost that battle and the Baratheons would be ruling right now.

But nope, he told Renly "kneel or die", despite the fact that Renly was totally right about Stannis being too unpopular. The surviving storm lords only side with Stannis because he's literally the last choice once Renly dies, and Stannis ends up paying dearly for his fratricide when the Tyrell host stomps his ass at the Blackwater. One ounce of compromise and he'd be king in all but name. Do you seriously think Renly would have done more than sit on the throne looking pretty? No, he'd rock the ceremonial/diplomatic aspect, but the administrative part would be left entirely to Stannis.

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So that what? our little goblin falling from the ceiling and slice his neck with a toothpick?

Renly being king would be pretty bad from a succession standpoint

Tyrion had plenty of reasons to hate Tywin but killing him was a shortsighted move.

more likely he'd go with them for now because the undead would be a bigger threat, and wait for a moment to fuck over dany and her dragons after the NK was defeated

>Jon Snow doesnt go north to take the Black
>Instead, Eddard sends him south to squire for Stannis
What changed

Imagine your younger brother skipping you over and saying he's king and you can eat dust. Stannis wasn't unreasonable in any way. Unpopular or not, he was the next in line. Just as Stannis' saw Robert as a drunken fool, but still his older brother and king, so should Renly have seen Stannis' the same way. It's likely that Renly would have inherited from Stannis' anyway because the chances of Stannis having a son from his wife are extremely slim to none.

Renly was an idiot who wanted to grab power because he thought being popular means everything. And he paid the price for it.

>Also whose your top five characters, fags?

>Jon Snow
>Bronn
>Jaimie Lannister
>Bran
>Theon Greystark

well the reach is theoretically under control of house tarly so lady tarly would be current acting lord of the reach, radmure is still alive so he's still lord of the riverlands. it's dorne that was a massive waste of everyone's time. the only good thing we got from that dumpster fire was bad poosey tits

>Bronn
Ok but seriously now, who are your favorites?

>The absolute travesty about Tyrion's character in the latter half of the show. Tyrion should have gone on some sort of soul searching during Season 5 or 6 to find out what his purpose really was, but he was almost demoted to plot device to become Daenerys's lacky. It's a real shame how much Tyrion devolved after Season 4.
What they did to Tyrion's arc was a travesty. It had so much potential, but D&D do not have the balls to do anything impactful on their own. Have a deep and complex character with his own motivations, good and evil? Nah, better to have the good funny drunken dwarf instead.

>come now, I know I sentenced you to death, but I would never let you die. you're a lannister!
>now be a good boy, put away that crossbow and we'll discuss this over tea and crumpets
What did he mean by this?

Where's
Tysha?

Imagine Tyrions reaction if he actually shit gold?
I wonder what it would smell like? ha ha

The stupid thing about this is that Tyrion's reason for killing him in the book is way more impactful than Tywin sleeping with some whore. It's probably the single most defining character moment in Tyrion and it was completely ignored.
This

>Davos
>Stannis
>Tywin
>Littlefinger
>Eddard
unironically

>what changes?
tons of shit really, neds' death was a massive trigger to a ton of events

Walder Frey only wanted Robb because he was king of the north if he wasn't a marriage deal for Edmure would have been a perfectly acceptable bargain

>Stannis wasn't unreasonable
Stannis literally decided to murder his own brother because brother said "no". They could have worked out some kind of arrangement given time.

Stannis was an idiot who thought you could just steamroll everybody, and he paid the price for it. Renly's spurned allies/lover showed up at the Blackwater and kicked his ass, that's why they lost. He would later go on to murder his own daughter because "muh R'hollor". This is not a sign of strength, it's a huge fucking problem. Neither of these kinslayings worked out for Stannis; sacrificing his daughter didn't help him win the First Battle of Winterfell, he got trounced and then Brienne killed him in the woods. Game over for Stannis, because he thought kinslaying and strongman bullshit was a viable alternative to building effective alliances.

ok, but either way, no Red Wedding because the conditions just aren't there. No slighted Walder Frey to jump ship to Tywin.

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Robert B
Oberyn
Tywin
Jaime
Hound

Roughly in this order

>Stannis literally decided to murder his own brother because brother said "no". They could have worked out some kind of arrangement given time.
I don't think Renly made an inclinations on an arrangement. In fact, Stannis is the one who compromises and tried to reason with Renly by giving him his old seat at the council and naming him his heir. Renly wanted the throne and he wouldn't have been content with anything less. As far as who killed who, Renly rebelled against his older brother and tried to fight him in a war. I don't really think Renly cared much about Stannis'. You can't use that against Stannis but at the same time ignore Renly's actions that spurned the whole thing. As I said, we can use Stannis' when he was in the same position Renly was in. Did Stannis like Robert? Did Stannis find Robert competent? Did Stannis agree with most of Robert's decisions. To all of those questions - no. But Stannis did whatever was asked of him because Robert was his elder brother, the king and that was the way of the world. You can't trample on every law and custom just because you feel like it.
youtube.com/watch?v=DP4BDHaKEjg&t=98s
I think this scene from Troy illustrates the releationship between Stannis' and Robert. The only difference is that Robert couldn't give a single fuck about the sacrifices Stannis made for him.

Whether those things worked for him in the show or not is absolutely irrelevant on whether he was right to do what he did or wrong. And he was completely right - brother or no, Renly deserved death as soon as he raised his banners against his older brother and tried to march against him in war.

I'm so happy they killed him off before they completely murdered his character.
Cersei is not even close to the same character as she was before, they killed CIA ENTIRELY because they had no idea how to write the character.
There is actually not a single similarity between this series and what we had 6 seasons ago.

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