Now I'm no expert on battles but i imagine sending a company of your strongest dudes to their death 3 seconds into a...

That's what I was really hoping the battle would be, absolute chaos, people realizing the futility, fucking each other over, retreating, etc. The Dothraki going first against commands would have been a good start to that

instead we got the most generic fantasy schlock imaginable. Everyone teamed up and defeated the enemy with only two minor deaths of note.

Why

just fucking why

>head on Cavalry charge
>In the dark
>With little to no armor for the riders or horses
>With no infantry support
>Against a formation that they knew was massively larger than theirs
Black and Browns should honestly be upset that the Unsullied and Dothraki got excessively BTFO because the white man ordered them to their deaths.

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>Know the only way to kill the dead is with fire
>Don't send in Dragons first
>Don't use Melisandre's fire
>Don't use wildfire
>Don't use flaming balls of pitch
>Don't use burning barrels

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Sansa was afraid of the chad Night King Javelin anti air
>I threw in college you know
>Yea, for some cushy knight school
>Try bone mountain university

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>>Know the only way to kill the dead is with fire
Since when?

She still has to defeat Cersei. Shes at a major disadvantage now that the largest bulk of her army is gone

they literally figured out you gotta burn bodies in season 1 when Jon saved Mormont's life.

They didnt order the dothraki to charge in, they did it themselves because that's all they know how to do.

Yeah that totally justifies sending a cavalry into the unknown not knowin’

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If only fire can kill a wight, then explain how Jon killed one with a dragonglass dagger right after saying that they can be destroyed by dragonglass..

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Kys namefag

Doesn't she have advisers or something? Does she even consult with them before she does this dumb shit

The Golden Company is going to declare for Jon when they discover he's Aegon, since historically the Golden Company were Targaryen Exiles and the Blackfyres have basically been thrown in the trashbin by Dabid.

It's quite genius, really. By keeping everything in the dark you save on CGI costs.

Next episode I bet she'll say this same thing or something close to it. Kicking off her arc as the mad bitch Dragon whore and the reason the other guys start to think she might not be the best for the realm after all.

Using wildfire would be extremely retarded in that battle

Exactly. That's why they only had ONE giant and ghost fucked off for the rest of the episode.

Does the fat man consult on the show or do the writers have complete control to write whatever bs?

The only thing Dabid consults is his See n' Say.

they had fucking trebuchets they could have thrown them pretty far away from everyone else.

It was a stupid decision for them to do that with the cavalry, but at least it failed as miserably as it should have. It would have been worse if the show went
>...and the cavalry charge totally pwns them cause dothraki are totally cool!
>Dabid, stop eating the crayons, I need to add Arya killing the Night King next.

It is a horrible strategy, but they did it to show the image of thousands of burning swords meeting a sudden stop in the form of a wall of undead as well as their swords going dark one after one.

I don't understand how Jorah, or the white direwolf, survived the charge.

They weren't fatally hit by the zombies. Is that really too hard to understand?
Jon has been surrounded by the wights a dozen times and he's still alive.

Most battles have been fought with some kind of tactic though, beyond select all units attack move left click

All the leaders and advisers were gathered around the map last episode, you may remember.
>Okay, the army of the dead are coming tomorrow, let's discuss how we can best defend th-
>No, let's all just get some sleep - I'm sure we can wing it with our heavy plot armor :^)

youtu.be/cxEFsfSgado

The bad decisions usually happen once the fighting starts and usually only result in localised fuck ups.

That could be very interesting. Imagine Danny going off the deep end, and Cersei winning by hanging on to power until Danny's camp self-destructs and everyone accepts Cersei because it can't be helped. She's like the Hillary Clinton of Westeros except she wins.

I can believe they thought up the image of the flaming swords going out and had to get there no matter the cost to believability.

what? the point whole point was get a pretty le ebic calvary charge with flame swords AND firey ball things flying in the back from a low angle shot. but in universe answer is that they need to prompt the whites into attacking because they wouldnt be able to last a siege. the calvary charge was probably actually pretty effective and the NK probably realized that if they keep sending waves of troops they could actually do a number and figured he needs to blitzkreig the castle and raise a new army post battle

test

>the cavalry charge was probably actually pretty effective

in no way, shape, or form was that charge effective.

Or turn around and flee but still vanish amid screams. Then everyone realises they're completely surrounded.

What you said doesn't make much sense. The Night King does not care about losing soliders, since he had a numerical advantage to begin with. If anything, he'd actually prefer for them to go on the offensive since they'd be giving up their advantage of having a defensive structure to protect them. Moreover, he has the cover of darkness which makes his soldiers more effective compared to the living. As for resurrections, he can do that at any time.

And yet this was one of the few good scenes

it was good until their dumbass charge.

All the charge did was within a few seconds give the enemy an entire zombie cavalry army while your own forces are OUTSIDE your fucking castle.

To equate it to your blitzkrieg example, it would be as if France decided the best way to halt the German advance was leave thousands of fully functional tanks to block the roads.

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its pretty clear you and the writers of this show dont know anything about even the most basic of tactics

>kills all the browns first
I was wrong about Dany. she is both BASED and REDPILLED

>The calvary charge was probably actually pretty effective
This was going good, but this gave it away

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Plot armor is pretty tough to penetrate

This was retarded and the fact that they got decimated in a minute is even more ridiculous.

you guys are idiots, the living army coudln't survive a siege, that's why they charged first, to cause NK to counterattack and get him out where they could kill him. yes there was going to be massive casualties for the living army but the dothraki always wanted to die in battle anyway. they already knew they couldn't survive a siege because they didn't have enough food stores for everyone. after the charge though, NK could have just kept back and forced them to die from starvation, but he was arrogant enough to think the living army was already beaten so he went in anyway after bran warged into a raven to goad him to attack directly.

i suggest you turn your fucking brains on for once and think about this logically.

They never had a hope of winning the battle you retard. They just had to buy time to kill the night king. The cavalry was on a suicide mission to take out as many wights as possible

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>swords burst into flames
>O'DOYLE RULES
>O'DOYLE RULES
>O'DOYLE RULES
>o'doyle rules
>o'doyle rules
>(((o'doyle rules)))
>...

>actually trying to defend this bullshit

>Deus Volt is a retarded GoTfag
Figures

Are you dead yet? Kill yourself.

Wouldn't they buy a lot more time by not killing themselves immediately?

That's retarded. There are many ways to deal with it. A seige is way better than sending a large portion of your group to die. That group will go a better chance later. Let them attack first. Waiting them out is a way better strategy.

Black people aren't actually human

>Imagine being this retarded

You're just an autistic incel. It's why you don't understand these things.

Why not instead have a dragon start strafing the dead and fly off? It would have a greater effect, without losing anyone.

> They just had to buy time to kill the night king.
>charge and die in 2minutes
>buying time
okay.

If each doth raki killed at least two wights it's a net loss in undead. They prolly killed more.

They LITERALLY had trebuchets they didnt need to do either of those things, regardless, the army of the dead was already charging full steam towards the castle so no matter what any retard says about the charge doing anything is wrong.

Literally all they had to do was kill at least two wights each and they would have bought winterfell time. Cavalry is meaningless against a horde that literally cannot be routed.

If you played a Total War game for like, ten minutes, you would legitimately have a better understanding of medieval battle strategy than D&D.

But you know, okay, it's a fantasy show. Fine, turn your brain off bro, clearly there's some reason why they set up the troop placements the way they did. It's all going to work out somehow, because Jon and the Night's Watch survivors know how the undead army works.
Except then the battle pans out EXACTLY like it would if you were to set up the troops that way in real life. So that means they fucking knew. D&D knew how fucking stupid it was and they still did it. Why?

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they didnt buy anyone time you absolute retard, they charge did nothing and had no positive effects on the battle.

Would you send your strongest fighters out in the dark against an enemy that can one-shot them, like how NK killed Viserion? Dothraki were just fodder, but they weren't cowards who were going to hide and not fight.

Besides, that's what they did for a little bit, dragons firing at the undead army until NK revealed his storm powers and blinded them.

So instead of feeding them big dick dothraki warriors and horses to add to the zombie army, pull them back and concentrate on a static defense.
>dude we're facing an army that doesn't fear, doesn't tire, doesn't feel pain, so let's fight them on open ground in pitch darkness
>dude let's put the catapults in front of the infantry
>dude let's put the infantry in front of the trenches
>oh no we're being routed and the troops have to squeeze through not only a tiny trench entrance, but the castle gate, how could this happen

Buy time? Buy TIME?
They weren't waiting for anyone. There was no fucking Eomer coming with 20,000 Rohirrim to save them. They literally needed to make a stand and defeat them there. All of them.

The Night King can fucking turn-undead EVERYONE in like a 300ft radius. That Calvary charge was not only retarded and suicidal, it actively helped the enemy by literally giving them more troops at the start of the fight.

I'm fucking retarded and immediately realized this when the battle scene started. What the hell were they thinking? The other scenes and the siege weren't that bad, but the large scale stuff was just plain fucking dumb.

have sex

>think about this logically and ignore all common sense in favor of my completely groundless headcanon

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Ya, it would be better to avoid sending out a dragon blindly, the point being it would at least be better than losing all of their dothraki immediately. They should have sent the dothraki into the castle and kept the horses as a food reserve (obviously not killing them all at once)

lol

They literally said in the previous episode the goal was to kill the night king. Holy shit you're such an incel that your cum has backed up into your brain.

In my headcannon the tactics are so shit because everyone listened to Sansa.
>Let's listen to this Sansa, she won the battle of the bastards!
>So eh I want those horsemen to charge first, alone
>Without backup Milady?
>They'll be fine, trust me I'm smart

It all makes sense

Jon's plan worked. How many undead hordes have you stopped?

No one sent in the calvary you fucking moron, they rushed in on their own volition because dothraki are nothing but savages who just horde around.

How stupid do you have to be to nitpick the stupid bullshit you're reaching for but ignore something as fundamental as this. Jesus Christ.

So before Melissandre showed up these dudes only had their arak with them? Doesnt this mean they literally had 0 chance of doing a single casualty to the wights? Why did they plan that charge in the first place before Meli showed up?

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>They should have sent the dothraki into the castle
no they should have been behind the castle and then they could have actually been useful when the army needed to retreat back into the castle by hitting the flanks of the undead when they werent a literal wall. they even could have done the whole flaming sword shit before they charged out to be useful.

If it hadn't been for arya and melisandre, his plan would have failed miserably and gotten everyone killed

How is "buying time" going to help them kill the Night King? Nothing you say makes any fucking sense.
It didn't work. Almost everyone died needlessly. The horde was stopped be a deus ex machina that will probably be ceaselessly mocked for years.

Sir Friend Zoned was the one that made them charge.

Jon snow:1 random incel:0

Then they all would have died much closer to the castle walls, and when NK did his revive dead spell, Jon would have been overwhelmed immediately when he went to challenge him.

Seriously, think already.

>Jon's plan worked.
people arnt arguing about the plan they are arguing about how stupid the battle looked because of shit like said

>Then they all would have died much closer to the castle walls
yeah because after the troops got back inside they couldnt just fuck off and out run any undead on foot.
shut up retard

They knew the night king was going after bran you retard. They weren't trying to kill every wight, they were just trying to survive until the night king was killed.

We all know you're just mad because you can't have sex

> Jon would have been overwhelmed immediately
He was already overwhelmed, the only reason why 40 fucking undead didnt dogpile his ass the second they came to life is because, "WE CANT KILL OFF JON SNOW"

No he doesn't, I literally just rewatched it, Melissandre and Arya are having a weird lesbian moment and then you hear some Dothraki fucker scream wildly -- Arya looks over and the horde begins to shittily charge.

All you fucking morons are shitting yourselves over plot points you don't even understand. The whole battle was a disorganized mess you Mongoloids. There's no one to blame for shitty tactics when it all fell apart in the first place.

There were hundreds of thousands of wights. They would never be able to kill them all.

Holy shit you must be 10 years old, go to be kid you have school tomorrow.

Too many mouths to feed Sandra planned this out like the cunt she is.

It was really convenient and shows the resilience of individual characters that Jorah didn't die charging head on after all the lights disappeared. And that Jaimie and Bryenne survived when they were in the front of the head on charge of white walkers. And that Grayjoy survived being in the frontline of the slave army for a long time. And that Jon survived charging NK head on, not once, but twice. And that he barely survived the ice fire from the dragon that tears down walls by hiding behind a wall.
How utterly convenient and I was shaking in my seat the entire time.

Except charging doesnt "buy you time" because the night king isnt remotely close to them at this point

You're wrong because of the formation, they obviously put the dothraki in the van for a suicide charge. Unlike the unsullied they were all Calvary, of fucking course the plan was to charge.

So the plan was to put the cavalry in front and then what? Not charge?

>Loses a full quarter of their troops in a heedless cavalry charge
>It's okay guys, the dothraki may have all died, but we killed 1/20th of the dead, we can last a lot longer against them now!
It would almost be better to have the dothraki lead a chunk of the dead away from winterfell in a fake retreat, then leave them alone to hit and run at their leisure. Even if the dead don't chase after them, they are free to turn around and pick them off as cavalry archers until they do break off from the seige.

yes because running into a bunch of wights from the side is the same as running into them head on.
just fucking shut up, you are too dumb to understand the most basic of tactics, who said anything about even killing them all you dumb shit, even if they all died attacking the flank it would have still made more sense than them running face first into the horde and dying in 30 fucking seconds.

>If only we had an archive of some kind to find out how the dead army fights their battles.... oh well. Good night brann.

If each doth raki killed at least two wights it's a net loss in undead, this buying time

>Oh no, the howling wind is stopping our flaming arrows from igniting the trench
>The solution is to slowly escort a priestess with magic powers to shout and pray and barely make it
>While the guy with a magic flaming sword watches in awe

Hwy?

Uuuuuuh yeah? In real life typically when real peoples lives are on the line you don't want to fucking lose

Which undead horde did you stop again?

Explain Custer's Last Stand then

Why did they need to make them attack? NK was drawn to bran remember? Their whole pla was based around the NK not being able to leave bran alone in the first place. Just be quiet.

Should have set up fire trenches in a way to funnel the undead into tight spots blocked by Unsullied. Have the catapults behind them for culling the ranks of approaching wights and the Dothraki keep the flanks clear with charges and regrouping.

But hey, I only play video games, I'm not a military genius.

youtube.com/watch?v=H-PvMJbZ1l4
yes because sir firend zone just pulls out his sword at 2:15 FOR NO REASON, not to indicate that they were about to charge.

It wasnt that it was the fact this battle had NO stragey. They just lined up and waited. They had 2 fucking dragons, literally unlimtied CAP with napalm. They should have waited for the dead to attack then just lite them up. Then when the other dragon came the two dragons attack that. Then light a trench full of oil. Shoot burning arrows into them. Job done.

They were not supposed to charge. You can see it based on Danys reaction of hopping on the dragon and abandoning the plan -- which we don't know because it didn't happen. Whenever Dany hops on the dragon flies off it always means shit has hit the fan.

There's plenty of precedent that you are going to ignore in favor of trying to replicate those Medieval 2 Total War battles you played all those years ago. It's honestly pathetic watching this shit.

Before they got their flaming sword out of nowhere they literally had no chance at all to kill a single zombie, yet the plan was still to put them in front

it worked in LOTR

Strategy? Tactics? Logic? Not necessary. This is a TV show which is all about meme scenes. Writers could have Podrick challenge the Night King to a dance off with the loser having to commit suicide and everyone would lap it up. The heroes win because plot says so.

You can fight with perfect strategy and still lose. Even Sun Tzu died in an ambush.

Unarmored light cavalry domt last very long when they had a literal, 15ft wave of skelles crash down and over them. And they could not charge through and out of the infantry because the skelles dont get hurt from being trampled like real infantry and they were stacked shoulder to shoulder. Thats how cavalry actually breaks formations.

Just go watch LOTR rohirrim charge to see a well done cavalary scene.

He pulls out his sword because everyone's fucking swords are on fire.

He had a good strat and still lost.

he pulls out his sword because he's THE COMMANDER and he's ABOUT TO ORDER A CHARGE.

>they were not supposed to charge
Then why were they in the very front genius

Now, that would've been EPIC!!!!

Theres nothing typical about being a rape thirsty idiot.

You could also say she just couldn't stand seeing them all die and changed her mind, choosing not to stick to the plan. In fact that makes more sense because you see Jon grab her and try to stop her. She just pussied out because she felt sad sacrificing them all which was the plan.

>Would you send your strongest fighters out in the dark against an enemy that can one-shot them, like how NK killed Viserion?
Thats exactly what they did though. Jon even tried to divebomb the full group of wights on the treeline by himself even though he knows 1 spear and he is dead.

Dany and Jon were calm when they were charging. It was only when they were all dying did she panic.

On top of that, since when does merely pulling out your sword mean he signaled a charge.

4:02 is when they start to charge. Jorah did not do shit.

Now fuck off and go rewatch the episode.

there's a significant difference between using the wrong tactics and just straight up sending some of your best dudes into the dark zombie-filled abyss to die

>They were not supposed to charge
>lets let all the horses soak up the first wave of zombied by just standing there
the only reason marrysue dragon queen jumped on her dragon was because she saw the charge stop dead

What were they supposed to do, then?

You realize that just one barrel of Wildfire could annihilate the zombie army since they all roam in herds and wildfire could be fueled indefinitely if it has something to burn?

they charged because the fire was starting to burn their hands. it was meli's fault they all died like that.

>On top of that, since when does merely pulling out your sword mean he signaled a charge.
>what does it mean when the commander of your calvary force pulls out their weapon and gets ready to use it
how stupid can you get?

We will not know because the plan failed from the very get go.

D&D is that you?

wildfire is like nitroglycerin times 1000, it's not stable, plus they didn't have any at winterfell

that's like suggesting why gendry didn't make machine guns for everyone

How many things can a troop of light-armoured cavalry do in the first line of battle?
This isn't hard user.

they would not have been able to pull off the hammer and anvil

the zombie army was far too vast to flank. Should have started with the good ol' "just send the fucking trebuchet fire and dragons first" formation

>the dothraki always wanted to die in battle anyway

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It worked in LOTR because they had tens of thousands of veteran heavy cavalry charging into loose formations of short, mortal enemies who can be get scared and run. They have been fighting and killing orc armies for centuries. They even had closeups of the orks shitting their pants before the charge.

The dothraki were outnumbered 10,000 to 1, a bunch of nomad savages who have been getting paid off by towns with real armies and just fucking up each other and villagers for centuries, who have never fought at night probably, or fought skelles, and had short swords instead of lances or spears like the rohirrim.

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There was no ticking clock element at all, though. It's not like they were tryin to buy time in order for Bran to do anything first or something like that. The entire battle didnt have any effect on the way the NK was ultimately killed. Everybody could have stayed at home except for Bran and Arya hiding in a bush to NANI the NK in the final moment. Its laughable.

>spend the entire war effort making dragon glass swords and spears
>never once think to make all traps and barricades surrounding the castle out of the stuff
>all those walkers climbing up the walls would have been dead cutting themselves
>they could have made grids of dragon glass spikes surrounding all the inner and outer walls and entrances
>large shields with spikes of dragon glass stabbing and pushing the white niggers into even more dragon glass on the walls and in designated pits on the ground
>funnel all the white niggers onto false floors with dragon glass spikes they'd all fall into and get stuck and die in
>use the dragons to make bombing raids with dragon glass shrapnel raining from the skies

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Cavalry was useless in this battle. The undead army flanks were too far wide, and sending them out to kill the loners on the flank or draw some portion of the army to them would make sense, but that would be without Viserion. To have them so far wide of the castle would make then easy target for the dragon and effectively waste them.
The only plan was to make put the horses away from the battle and have the dothrakis man the wall with the other soldiers.

this is another rule I don't get. What amount of dragon glass exposure actually kills a skelly? That little girl only had to stab the giant in the eye but everyone else seems to have to swing as hard as they can to cleave them in two. Surely just touching them doesn't do it but some slight penetration does?

Also why would the blue fire have hurt Dany

There was a ticking clock element: food. They didn't have enough food for everyone. Sansa herself said they never planned to have enough food for the Dothrakis and the 2 dragons. They HAD to kill NK as fast as possible.

I hate defending this garbage, but they DID have dragonglass on all the barricades. The stupid fucking writers just let them crawl through them anyways. Prop department did their job.

Eat the horses, you don't need them in this battle.
Besides the undead were attacking in the first place. If they didn't want to attack, then they wouldn't have attacked after the useless charge anyway.

>To have them so far wide of the castle would make then easy target for the dragon and effectively waste them.
Nobody knew they had the zombie dragon until it showed up.

they only had the dragonglass on the top parts, not in between

>Night king walks up to Bran
>steps on one pointy boi

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bran told them

>There was a ticking clock element: food.
no the night king was not planning any battle of attrition, he was running his super expendable super large army of undead straight at the castle.

Now you are just fucking with me. I literally was arguing that them delaying the NK from reaching Bran was pointless because the fact that he died there and how he died there could have been accomplished without a battle first.

Whole episode doesn't have any sense but american retards shit themselves in front of their tv screens or seek some stupid excuses for every fuckup and argue in the internet that everything is great while it's something on the level of "Xena: Warrior Princess".

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Even multiplayer Mount & Blade sieges have more strategy then this shitter.
Bannerlord never ever.

They didn't have that much dragonglass. It wasn't like there was a dragonglass mine there at Winterfell like there was on Dragonsreach, they only brought what they could, so they had to make arrowheads and spear tips and swords for the fighters.

And besides, you did see how many wights there were in the army of the dead? The few that ended up in spike pits would have built up into a pile of bones that the other wights would have walked on top of. They're not the white walkers that explode into ice, just reanimated skeletons.

>didn't have that much
>dragonsreach
brainlet

That's true. What's not right is that before any wight put in contact with fire, it bursted into flames and now they can put out fires by sitting on top of it?

>they charged because the fire was starting to burn their hands. it was meli's fault they all died like that.
Ok, I laughed.

>Strongest

Dothraki can’t fight

youtube.com/watch?v=J7MYlRzLqD0

roman army would btfo all these retards

ok, let's hear your brilliant plan to lead the dothraki horde to victory then. remember, NK can revive dead people to fight for him.

I don't understand how they got wiped out so easily. They were on horses and they were claimed to be the best in an open field. Everything was in their favor.

Not even a company. Thats thousands of valuable men and horses. That's a fucking division of men. More comparable to sending the whole northern houses armies to die in a single fucking charge. And they were Dothraki. Which makes them even more valuable. And to be sent into the fucking dark to be btfo like that. Absolutely inexcusable writing. Only thought went into that was
>le ebin wicked cool shot
I didn't want to believe it. Even after Ramsey pulled that shirtless bullshit back in season 4.
This show got too big for its own good. Now everything is done for cool points. No logic or thought is put into this shit anymore.
This show is unironically like the fucking Night King and all who praise this shit are like the wites.

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literally just hold them back while bombarding the skellys with trebuchet and dragon fire

actually anything other than just sending them off to die

they came across a wall of World War Z zombies that knew how to stab you with knives

>friends hype me up for this episode
>expect some helm's deep tier battle
>turns out to be worse than battle of five armies
im so disappointed i don't know where to start

Even then, It was so fast that you could see all of their flames run out in 15 seconds. I would expected some manuevers to run away from whatever they hit.

Wights are literally mindless zombies. They could have had one Dothraki ride around in a circle and have all the wights chase him while everyone shoots them withh arrows. Classic kiting manoeuvre which would work because the skellies are basically dumber than actual video game AI

>Unsullied and the rest hold the line in trenches
>Cavalry encircles the flank
>Catapults and dragons bombard the center
>Special team targets the NK

But maybe the horde was too large for this then

See

They were unbeaten on an open field boys, it seemed pretty obvious they were gonna do it again.

It's not as stupid as Ramsey meeting both Stannis and John outside the walls in both battles.

Exactly. I went into this episode like most people did. Expecting heavy losses and main character deaths as the night king btfo everyone and ended with them retreating. For fucks sake. They gained EVEN MORE undead men to fight as the battle went on. Yet somehow, even after thousands upon thousands of zombies swarmed the castle, even after the undead dragon started burning everything around it, even with the fucking SUPPOSEDLY 99 crasters sons/white walkers, even with the fucking Night King that has fucking Marvel Comics powers and tanked a fucking sustained blast of dragonfire and smiled, they still fucking lost with a fucking prick from a 100 pound little girl-assassin training or not.
Simply bad writing. This is probably one of the worst episodes of this entire show. What now? The army of the dead was supposed to represent how fighting for the throne meant nothing in the end. Now what? Back to SmugQueen And QuipPirate? This show fucking sucks

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And where are they going to go? Where would they maneuver? They all got clogged up in a sea of zombies. Stupid ass show

To me it seems they rushed 2 episodes worth of material into one, just to rush the fat fuck to finally conclude the plot.
This could have been two solid episodes had they took time and effort.
Build up enemy for 7seasons.
BTFO them in one battle.
Kind of liked it. Abrupt shutdowns of characters has been the hallmark of got.

Kek, it is hard to imagine the show going back to Season 1/2 medieval politics after spending the last 3 seasons heavily setting up this apocalyptic battle that is basically concluded now (unless there is some asspull and Bran becomes the Night King via time loop magic or something).

>Melisandre pops up out of nowhere
>none of the Dothraki have dragonglass weapons
>the Dothraki charge into nothingness for no reason at all

It was at that point, I knew we were in for some shit. I tried to ignore the bad formations and tactics, because I am no expert on medieval battle strategies and don't really care much about that stuff. But then the episode immediately starts with shit that is so retarded that it is impossible to ignore.

When this battle was being planned out, what were the Dothraki supposed to do? Were they told to charge blindly into 100,000 zombies, or did Melisandre give them an unwarranted confidence boost? Why were they wielding plain metal arakhs in the first place? Why weren't they using dragonglass weapons? How were they supposed to kill wights with metal swords?

D&D just do not care. They wanted a hope spot at the beginning of the episode (I don't know why, since it's an 80 minute battle episode, and we all know the conflict won't be resolved in the first 15 minutes), but couldn't give a fuck if it made sense or not. This episode was like a Marvel movie, because all the main characters were in perilous situations, seconds away from death, and then are all saved at the last second when the villain dies. I could have sworn Guardians of the Galaxy 2 had the same last act.

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You're all bad strategists, I would rather follow Dany into battle than any of you.

>They didn't have that much dragonglass
If only they had two large flying creatures that could quickly transport large amount of goods from the mine and back. Instead of going one some incest-ridden guilty trip with no purpose.

if only they had some fire breathing dragons that could've lit up the perimeter so they could see what they were up against

needing dragonglass to kill a common zombo in this universe is a stupid rule anyway. Overall I feel like the whole dragonglass thing was just an easy way to pull Dany and Jon together

It’s a metaphor for the indifference of white people to the plight of brown people

I would be more worried about the fact that they only had a couple of blacksmith and 3 days to prepare 20k weapons and fortifications in dragonglass

>strongest
>brown people that dont wear armor
d&d are based and this scene was realistic

Ah yes, because surely Night King or his generals wouldn't just chuck spears at the dragons and kill them immediately, like we already saw him do with one of the dragons already.

>D&D just do not care.

They care about creating visual spectacle and oh fuck moments. And I have to admit watching all the flames get snuffed out in the darkness makes for a cool visual.

The problem is the show doesn't give a shit how it gets there anymore. They constantly fuck over characters and make them seem like idiots and fools in order to create these moments.

B-but we didn't see the blacksmiths training, maybe he was working with the God of Tools and thus managed to be efficient. You know, magic and stuff :^)

>Overall I feel like the whole dragonglass thing was just an easy way to pull Dany and Jon together
It's straight from the books, so I am not going to blame D&D for that. I also don't really think it's all that stupid. What's stupid is having a mountain of dragonglass and not using it to better equip the cavalry.

>needing dragonglass to kill a common zombo in this universe is a stupid rule anyway. Overall I feel like the whole dragonglass thing was just an easy way to pull Dany and Jon together

More likely it's just because having to burn every corpse would be a logistic and stunt nightmare. That shit is dangerous. They would still need to go get dragonglass to kill the White Walkers so plenty of reason for Jon to go fuck Dany.

I'm not trying to justify it but the reasoning I hear usually is in order to set the tone of the episode as bleak and hopeless, and also present how dangerous the wights are, as they just wipe out incredibly dangerous warriors in an instant.
Of course what this actually does is make the Dothraki and especially Dany look incompetent and stupid

I think you mean to say, "if only they had some kind of siege weapon capable of launching 90kg projectiles over 300m to light up the area"

It's actually pretty in-character for the dothraki
youtube.com/watch?v=QjnaLl4QqOI

yeah they shouldve used guns and tanks and shit, perhaps a nuke

>It's straight from the books, so I am not going to blame D&D for that. I also don't really think it's all that stupid. What's stupid is having a mountain of dragonglass and not using it to better equip the cavalry.

Only fire has been shown effective in killing WIGHTS in the books. We've had no cases of them being killed by dragonglass and no one has ever mentioned it, just fire.

>dothraki charge in order to provoke NK into attacking Winterfell
>they all die
>NK could easily decide to wait and troll the shit out of the living
wanna know how i know you're absolutely, one hundred fucking percent, retarded?

Tyrion is literally a genius in tactics.

Unsullied are lorewise the strongest fighting company in existence, so that checks out. Not sure why OP thinks Dothraki are the strongest. They're especially brutal, but they're uncoordinated and wouldn't stand against an army of Westeros knights. They'd only win with numbers advantage.

>Tyrion is literally a genius in tactics.

Tyrion has been a god damn idiot and fucked up everything since season 4.

>Unsullied are lorewise the strongest fighting company in existence
>too stupid to set up formations or spear walls in this fight
WEW

They formed a line, and they formed that box around Melisandre.

This. He's a dumb fuck since season 5 and a waste of screen time. People like now purely because of inertia.

>The Golden Company is going to declare for Jon when they discover he's Aegon,
They already know about Dany, and she's as Targ as can be, but they haven't had any issue joining Cersei against her anyway

Doesn't mean they're not the strongest company we know of, lorewise. If they equal in number to the Golden Company, then Cersei stands no chance.

To be fair what formation can stand against a horde of enemies who don't care about their lifes and mindlessly charge at you, throwing their bodies like sacks of flour?
In battle humans are careful to not lose their lifes. Dead don't care.

she still has dragons, and if the writers weren't such awful hacks the Reach,Riverlands, Vale, North, stormlands and dorne are theoretically now allied. really the biggest threat was just dealt with already that's why everyone is so let down

>mindless zombies
>mindless zombies controlled by a intelligence who can employ tactics

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you could kill them with valyrian steel and dragon glass, but yes fire would have been the easiest to both procure and setup for defenses but Jon was just autistic about the whole muh dragon glass

>fill huge pits with fire that is really really hard to put out
how is that retarded? the only reason didn't work because the pit they built ONE pit that was like 2-3 ft deep with spikes facing TOWARDS them like a bunch of retards. really their whole defense setup was retarded

Because then the wights that got engulfed with wildfire would still be running right at the defenders, and then they would have lit up on fire too

>Wights are literally mindless zombies.
Do you remember when the wight, commonly referred to as "Dumb Cunt," realized that the ice has frozen back over in Beyond The Wall?

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How could they be running from a 10 foot deep trench? Why would you set up shot outside the castle anyway?

>Build trebuchets and place them in FRONT of our lines
>using light cavalry to start the battle in a headlong charge (basically trying to zerg rush the zerg)
>Use them for a couple of volleys max
>Unsullied in loose formation, not phalanx
>Unsullied positioned in front of the trenches
>Dothraki in front, not on flanks
>using Vale knights as footmen/spearmen instead of what they're famous for "heavy cavalry"
>Trench is like 20ft away, not 100+ to allow archers time to pick off undead
>Spikes in the trench facing towards the castle
>Spikes too large to impale any of the wights
>Gate isn't barricaded or reinforced
>Dragons only occasionally used, fuck off for most of the battle
>Godswood walls aren't manned
>Barely any archers
>No phalanx behind the gate
>Everyone using meme weapons like hammers and polearms
they had Yohn Royce and Jaime on their side, two of the most experienced commanders available in Westeros at the time along with jorah who was a war veteran. they had no reason for the extremely poor battle formations and tactics they employed

I mean it's dark, why not get the dragon light the surroundings so they can actually see shit

Either wights are controlled by the white walkers, either it's a stupid moments. Wights have proven time and time again during Jon's moments at the wall they have no concern for personnel safety

>Because then the wights that got engulfed with wildfire would still be running right at the defenders, and then they would have lit up on fire too
that's why you make your trenches deeper than 2-3ft

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-only- Jorah and the wolf survived, aka, the only named character. Stop being dense on purpose.

that would be too logical

The dothraki are devastating in open fields as it was mentioned previously however they need to build up speed on their horses to break enemy formations. That's why they were sent in first

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>we need to break da zombie horde tight formation dany

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They didn't know that zombies just run in hordes without any order

is Arya going to ask or talk about him

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> stop firing the catapults and trebuchets

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What would have been the point? Kill a few hundred wights when there's still 100000 rushing you?

>sending elite, lighty armored cav alone as vanguard into the thick of the enemy formation in prolonged combat
There’s imperfect tactics and just plain retardation

why even fight then?

>Only make one trench
>Send a wolf to the front lines with no dragonglass weapons

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You steel yourself for the rush of hundreds of thousands of skeletons, not needlessly try to put more rocks in the trebuchets.

>Yohn Royce
Was he even in this episode?

I guarantee that the defending armies could not only have withheld the wight force we saw, but they also could have won that battle. They had multiple compotent generals there, and I guarantee Jamie knew at least something about midieval tactics. They didnt even need to use it though. If they equipped all menial infantry with halberd or sarissa pikes and put them shoulder to shoulder in a phalanx with unsullied on the first 5 or so lines, utilized archers on the battlements and back line, situated the calvary on the flanks and attacked once the lines met, and used the dragons to take out the giant and periodically strafe infantry, they could have kicked the shit out of the entire WW army.

i cant tell if youre actually a brainlet or just trolling. Why would they assume a tight-ranked 'human' style formation out of mindless zombies? not to mention almost all of the leaders have seen the zombie hordes

the wights could simply throw themselves into the trenches to snuff out the fires and create a "ground" for the others to stand and climb on.

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I mean they all got their swords set on fire randomly and that was probably pretty hot so they wanted to get the fighting going quickly.

why did they put people on the outside in the first place? just man the walls, have the dragons burn the dead when they get close, shoot arrows down and maybe get some of these babies in case the NK shows up

sure, sending the sand people to their death has merits and all but they could've used the horses as meat

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lold

Wights would just flood the gaps, crawl under the spears and the spears would break after a couple impalements
You brainlets don't understand that the dead don't tire,don't care about dying and they don't break

That was the plan
Those sneaky northmen
I bet they didnt even tell the dothrakis that the were facing snow zombies
The probably thought they were fighting a nightbattle with the lannisters

they only had dragonglass all over the big caltrop things inside the castles courtyard, you literally cant defend this shit

this guy makes an extremely valid point

>You're now aware that the dothraki were killed off so HBO wouldn't have to pay for any more elaborate horse combat scenes...
Personally, I would have opted for a long seige that result in starvation and horse eating, but Kamikaze attack is like 4th from last on my my list. Better then all the horses getting the flu an keeling over without a send off, I suppose.

I didn't get why they had so many problem with food when they had thousands of horses they shouldn't be using at hand

Thats why every army in thousands of years of human warfare has put their artillery BEHIND THEIR ARMY so they workers can reload and fire unhindered.

>the wights could simply throw themselves into the trenches to snuff out the fires
that's why you make more than 1 trench and make it deeper than fucking 3 ft deep a 10 ft deep trench filled with wild fire/fire/proper stakes is gonna take out and slow down a lot of wights we have legit real life modern and ancient trenches that are better than what they fucking came up with. imagine this but deeper filled with spikes and fire.

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they fucking forgot about shield walls for some reason

Attached: untitled-541.gif (500x260, 2.97M)

>dragonglass kills wights in the show
>no one thinks to use trebuchet launched crushed dragon glass as makeshift white phosphorous

stop being logical

It kills wights when they're stabbed with it, not from skin contact. If it worked, they may as well use WW1/Russian civil war/Rif war tactics of dropping obsidian powder from dragons.

no,but he was at the war council

Attached: 1123555 3.png (1920x1080, 1.46M)

Like there's any difference when it's a fine powder it would still penetrate flesh slightly. the show even has fucking sinbad style skellingtons how the fuck does stabbing them make any sense?

what about davos, all he did was stand around gawking at melly and then at arya

Why didn't they shoot fireballs into the darkness afterwards so death dothraki wouldn't come back to life.

The whole battle was retarded.

How many undeads have open wounds? All of them?

Its like a literal charge of the light brigade hahahahahahahahahaha

their charges have been stopped by unsullied shield walls before and they typically rely on overpowering numbers( they essentially tried to zerg rush the zerg). dothraki are just as good with bows, they would have been better employed as light skirmish cavalry. I can fucking guarantee that several thousand dothraki archers harassing the undead flanks would have been more effective than a head-on charge

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pretty fucking important battle to "get wrong" though, is it not?

it's like pottery

Scene with all lights going off was cool tb h. I was more annoyed that it wasn't clear who led the attack. Usually you have a general in battles no?

How does a skeleton move of it doesn’t have muscle tissue?

Not just that, why did they charge with arakhs instead of being outfitted with obsidian arrows and doing the Mongol/Hungarian/Hun/Turk thing they were based on? The zombies never showed up with any ranged weapons other than the NK's javelin. So the dothraki had the advantage of speed and range without counter.
The more I think about this scene, the dumber it gets.

so the white blocks are their estimation of the undead army?
>Hey dothraki, tomorrow you will plow right into that shit xD
>you want obsidian? you still have your shitty dothraki swords that do fuck all against the undead, right? just use those.
>don't worry, we will give you the wolf that can't harm the wights either

>it wasn't clear who led the attack
Jorah was leading the cavalry

just imagine having 50k Dothraki archers armed with dragon glass arrows harassing the shit out of the undead horde they'd thin out the herd in no time

Jorah Mormont clearly led the charge

This. They were going in total darkness against tens of thousands of enemies they couldn't have killed.

They won, who cares about tactics. A couple of dothraki are a small price to pay to save humanity

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they really shouldnt have had too much trouble with the undead numbers if they had deployed and prepared properly. dany estimated 100k wights so let's be generous and say the night king amassed 200k wights. dany and jon had at least 100k troops at least 70-80k dothraki cavalry 30k vale knights,8k unsullied, 20k mix of northerners and wildlings, 2 dragons AND a castle that is famed for how fuck hard it is to siege against 200k undead soldiers whose main strategy is charging at their targets with no ranged support,siege engines or cavalry aside from the 100 others controlling them. with the entire army having a weakness to dragonglass,fire and valyrian steel. it's really really dumb at how badly they mismanaged their troops

that's the problem they only won due to a deus ex machina by el goblina assassina. the fucking night king should have won the fight with how retarded they planned the defense

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And the zombies would have to retreat into a close-packed formation. Perfect for dragonfire bombing. i.e. the dothraki could have been useful and made the battle trivial from the start, and that was fucking obvious since Daenerys had both dothraki and dragons back in Essos. Instead, D&D decided to kill the dothraki because muh desperate last stand.

lets be real the only reason they did this, and the only reason their had flaming swords was that scene where the fires go out one after another and you feel the horror of the army of the dead. that was the only reason to create that moment there was no thinking past that point just have a moment for the "fans" in a bar to gasp at and clutch the arm of the guy/girl next to them.

They could have held much longer of they stayed behind the trenches that got lit on fire.
Also throwing themselves increases their losses by a lot and slows down their advance.

they had the numbers to actually repel the fucking wights even without cersei's help, their entire problem stems from the fact that the wights had a dragon of their own which they served to the night king on a silver platter.

>expert magical assassin is a deus ex machina
Not really, it's actually consistent with her character. She's silent, fast, deadly, it checks out

You send your cavalry to one of the flanks, then hit the enemys back ranks as they charge the shield wall

t.HEMA nerd

its not that hard honestly, have the Dothraki line up on each side of the caste out of view of the army of the dead have unsullied be the front line in formation. Once they are pushed back you light the trenches and as the army of the dead just stands there focused on the fire and caste your cavalry sweeps in from both sides and fucking runs them over.

Way more effective than charging into the night with no vision and no idea how the enemy is set up only to get swarmed by a countercharging army of zombies.

>literally requires a trampoline to do that stunt that she did
>hundreds of undead that could detect blood dripping and their leaders suddenly can't detect a goblin

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that's the other thing nothing prevented the NK from just raising the Dothraki and sending them right back at them. I actually expected that to happen because it is the ultimate middle finger to the enemy and absolutely DESTROYS the morale of the people to the point where I would expect untrained fighters to just flee outright.

>i suggest you turn your fucking brains on for once and think about this logically.
it's ironic that you say this because I think yours is turned off

dont be so mean to Masie she said in an interview that she knew people would hate it and she was unsure of it herself. Also in another interview she said that she had direct input in toning down the Waif terminator chase scene when she said what D&D had planned was way too over the top. She is a good one and without her it wouldve been even more ridiculous.

>wouldn't stand against an army of Westeros knights.
Don't be retarded, you are just like D&D the Dothraki dont jump into lances like they do on the show, they haven't done that since their first fight with the unsullied, that's wy you don't go into the open against them: they will outrun any heavy calvary and said heavy calvary will just be exposed to lost horses to ranged weapons
This guy gets it. "spear walls" work becuase they maximize energy and allow rotation of the front and back lines so they can drink water and rest, but an army that doesnt fear death, doesnt need to rest and doesnt need to eat or drink will eventually rekt you anyway.
Jaime isn't an experienced commander in the show. He is as experienced as Jon

>is in order to set the tone of the episode as bleak and hopeless, and also present how dangerous the wights are
this only happens because the solutions they come up with are the most retarded and amateurish mistakes a commander could come up with

how did the night king not notice the trampoline there? Is he retarded?

>have under your command the leaders and survivors of several major wars
>also have under your command the tribal leaders of the entire cavalry contingent
>"Sending our light cavalry to their immediate deaths is okay."
>"OOGA BOOGA RAPE ME SKELLY!"

Imagine being so bad at writing that a barely legal actor has to call you out.

>I can fucking guarantee that several thousand dothraki archers harassing the undead flanks would have been more effective than a head-on charge
This was literally the best use of the dothraki possible. The arrows were extremely lethal to the army of the dead and they could outrun the army of the dead.

>Jaime isn't an experienced commander in the show
Tywin gave him command of 30k troops back in season 1-2 more than what jon has commanded in the watch, he was also defacto commander of all loyalist crown forces after tywin died

They needed a 10 year old who played any RTS tutorial on as an advisor.

>don't do the thing that makes sense
Okay D&D

Because Jorah had to die later as an eternal cuck to Queen Mary Sue Angel Tits

Jaime is referenced being at multiple legendary battles, was leader of the kingsguard, and captured two fortresses in the last season without a drop of blood spilled. One that even the mad king couldnt take.

>She's silent, fast, deadly
Just like a fart.

>Tywin gave him command of 30k troops back in season 1-2 more than what jon has commanded in the watch
And what happened after that?
>he was also defacto commander of all loyalist crown forces after tywin died
That was my boy Kevan aka BEST Lannister after Genna.

It's called hand signals. They've been around for, like, forever.

m.9gag.com/gag/awA8m6x

It was done for visuals and a trailer shot and you're a fag

this

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>Jaime isn't an experienced commander
He was at the most battles out of anyone in the show what are you even typing about

>And what happened after that?
got fucked over by rob stark at the whispering woods but before that, he was fucking over the riverlords
>That was my boy Kevan aka BEST Lannister after Genna
ok after kevan was blown up. Jaime was the one who sieged highgarden and riverun

>Jaime is referenced being at multiple legendary battles
But not as a commander
>and captured two fortresses in the last season without a drop of blood spilled.
Yes, and that's when he actually starts to be smart, just like in the books, before his father died he just rely on his skill, i don't remember about the series, but in the book as a kid he is only interested in Brynden Tully's fights and less about tactics. same for Dayne. Jaime was a hot headed golden boy, but he never cared about command until much later in his life, in the show he gets defeated in his first battle and then doesn't get involved in the army until his father dies.

being present doesn't make you an expert

Can someone plesh post the "Dothraki dying" image?

>time travel plot
Only way to make it worse, I guess.

There is nothing Mary Sue about Dany. Jon, Arya, Sansa are much MUCH bigger mary sues. They lived the extremes alone, Dany has dragons, army who are protecting her. And honestly, she was the only good woman character from EP3

>turd versus polished turd

Isn't this what cavalry does though? Charge the fuck out of infantry? Sure they could've had backup or something but you wouldn't want them to just sit and wait for for the wights, that's literally what you have dudes with shields and long pointy sticks for. They were just massively outnumbered.
Maybe a flank would've been best though, while unsullied were holding the wights back. And obviously utilize the fucking dragons better.

But Arya rejected to become no one. She stayed Arya and left. Stupid. Her whole character development is arse. She's "badass" only because the plot requires her to be and dabid decided she had to be. Hacks.

I'm not even sure how she became some sort of super martial arts assassin, at best she'd be a good infiltrator even jaquen hagar was captured and a prisoner during season 2. she spent like 2 yrs max at the house of black and white and spent like an entire year getting her ass kicked. did the waif transfer all her abilities to arya when she stabbed her? how is she suddenly able to do all this shit?

>They're especially brutal, but they're uncoordinated and wouldn't stand against an army of Westeros knights

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>He was at the most battles out of anyone in the show what are you even typing about
And in most of those fights he wasn't giving orders but just killing people. Out of Dayne, Jaime and Barristan the later was probably the one that cared the most about command, The Dayne were experienced killing baratheons
Dany isn't a mary sue, she is a broken character, she was supposed to be developed to be on the edge of madness, but they run out of time and making her, fan service and popularity killed her character

>at best she'd be a good infiltrator even jaquen hagar was captured and a prisoner during season 2
He wasn't captured, little finger paid him to kill Ned Stark on his way to the wall.

Arya is the dead, it's only the Waif that is left wearing her face and she defeated the NK.

Sansa isn't a Mary Sue because she's incompetent and has been thrown about like a dog toy the entire show. This "empowered" "smart" Sansa of the recent two seasons is a joke. She never acquired any skill or demonstrated any instance where she had intelligence or capabilities.

Jon isn't a Mary Sue because he literally died once already and has gotten by solely on his charisma and his sword arm. He's also dumb as shit and a bad commander.

Dany is a Mary Sue because no matter what happens to her, Plot Armor rushes to her rescue. Evil brother? Rapist husband kills him. Almost poisoned? Beta Knight saves her. Lost in a desert? Dragons save her. Attacked by slavers? Dragons save her. Lost in a desert again? Dragons save her again. Captured by Dothraki? Impervious to flames. Surrounded by zombies? Beta Knight saves her again. Etc. etc.

>30k vale knights
try 2000

>still trying to push calling her "goblina"
Fucking reddit, goblinos are by definition mixed race,you are like a retard posting bane memes in facebook

That's how it could be explained, but you know dabid won't go with it.

Dany and Jon are the same. If Dany got murdered and resurrected you'd have listed that. She's also dumb as shit and you didn't list it

>This "empowered" "smart" Sansa of the recent two seasons is a joke. She never acquired any skill or demonstrated any instance where she had intelligence or capabilities.
The guideline was that she ends up being skilled in manipulation, and betrays littlefinger, a nice arc, she being mentored by LF, of course the show never bothered with that.

>try 2000
is it because of the budget for the dragon cgi and they couldn't pay for either more extras or cgi time? Robyn ordered a full mobilization of the vale and they can field 30-40k men and were still "fresh" having just entered the "war"

she's been called a goblina for a long time now or is quasimodo more of your thing?

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>is quasimodo more of your thing?
Yes, it's accurate.
>she's been called a goblina for a long time now, calling her globlina is like calling indians "sandniggers" or canadians "white".
No, she was called a GOBLIN

To the viewer, she's dumb as shit. To the setting she's in, she always makes the right decision and gives a stern smug lecturing voice right before she makes it. I WISH Dany would die. Everyone memes about how "subverting expectations" is now the height of story telling when it obviously fucking isn't. But her being killed would actually be a great way of closing out the show and killing this magical girl trope.

where was this mentioned? I recall he was a criminal that yoren got from acok in to books and I don't believe it was mentioned in the show

already seen goblina references to her since about season 5-6

The problem is that they are trapped, If Jon wins, the classical hero has won, they have not subverted anything, same for dany if she wins, if they kill both they will make the fanbase mad and they are extremely afraid of that. They killed the show and put themselves on a corner the minute they started the fanservice.
Littlefinger talks about hiring them to kill dany and knows how much they cost. Faceless men are not paid to kill some drunktard or rapist from king's landing dungeons
The "goblino" meme didn't existed during season 5 and didn't started until months after season 6 had ended, nice larping tho, stop pretending you are not a redditor misusing a dead /int/ meme, and yes it's from /int/ since i'm sure the first thing you will go to KYM.

>Every “popular” show gets to be shitty as long as everyone else says it’s good
>fuck using your own judgement when reddit and twitter can do it for you dishonestly
Go back

This didn't sit right with me either, even though its clearly the tactic the show employs. How the fuck was it not explained to everyone that they aren't even really fighting an army, but a swarm of undead beserkers? Jon knows their tactics

>Littlefinger talks about hiring them to kill dany and knows how much they cost.
yeah sure but when was it mentioned he was hired to kill ned?