MARY SUE

But it's not subversive at all for a Mary Sue to kill the ultimate bad guy.

>Magic fire from a fucking dragon can't kill him
>A pissy little knife does

But there's a disconnect with those seasons were things were actually kind of rooted in the books, you have to treat her current character as a different character. The fact that she survived getting stabbed in the stomach was already a hint to what direction her character was gonna take.

unironically better and even does forced feminism less obnoxious and it had fucking brie larson in it.

Just how?

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Some people predicted it but thought it was such bad writing they wouldn't do it. They did it.

okay, once more for the noobs:
"subverting expectations" refers to a surprise not being set up properly. you see, screenwriters/authors can write anything into existence at any moment but when they do, that feels randumb. to prevent this, good writers tie their own hands by not springing stuff out of nowhere but setting things up in a prior scene/foreshadowing it.

so when we criticize TLJ and or the arya scene of subverting expectations, we're saying that this was a cheap asspull that hasn't been properly foreshadowed.

>magical ice king of zombies who can find the living all around him isn't able to or doesn't care about someone blatantly advancing in his direction and neither do any of the White Walkers without even the slightest suspicion
Yeah okay

you have to meticulously cut off someone's face to disguise as them

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it was one season of fighting in the dark with a stick where she takes multiple stab wounds to the gut and does parkour through the streets.
>Changes into a walker to sneak behind enemy lines
nice head canon, cope harder

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more like subverted the plot

I expected it. There was a setup for it and I thought it was a plausible theory. My personal preference was always Jon to kill the NK and Arya to kill Cersei because that's what I thought would be the most satisfying(Cersei being on Arya's list, she could have used her face shifting to infiltrate King's Landing. I suppose it could still happen, but it would be making it way too much into Arya's show.), but it's not as left field as you make it out to be. The way she did it was definitely stupid and ridiculous though.

>mary sue doesn't mean anything now
A mary sue is a character that is perfect without any effort. Arya is not a mary sue.

actually, it's a self-insert

None of those characters were trained by the most elite and secretive assassin guild. Please.

Yeah the ending seemed overly simplistic but it's not like Arya isn't supposed to canonically have special abilities everyone else doesn't.

She lost her virginal protection last episode, makes no sense she would have been able to kill the NK without the purity of her maidenhead.

>the night king can just sense every living creature because
Nowhere in the show was this ever stated. Yes he has amazing reflexes and fighting ability. No one ever said he's invincible.

I would have however preferred a better end to him. Or a better explanation. I though Bran was going to warg into the dragon and fuck shit up long enough for the other heros to arrive. I think that would have been a better ending.

> Didn't just stab him in the fucking hand

This

Show

stealing this, thanks user

It's valarian steel. If anything else in the show was going to kill him it was going to be dragon glass or valarian steel. We already knew that.

The night king was created when a knife was thrust into his torso. He died the same way.

Twice in his film series. He's 4-6 in his filmed bouts, the second loss was when he was already ancient..

you aren't correct on how "assassins" fight in different kinds of combat.
"assassins" specialize in subtleties like tracking, disguises, low kinetic striking. NOT SWORDFIGHTING
the best assassin ever will get blown the fuck out by a good swordsman in a duel just like a good swordsman doesn't stand a chance against an assassin stalking him for a day then stabbing him the neck when he isn't looking

Great. She has an AA degree in Faceless Man Studies.

Why is this only an issue when it's a girl who does it when most media have newcomers beating veterans?

3-7. He fought Clubber Lang twice and lost once.

>The night king was created when a knife was thrust into his torso
Then why would the same thing kill him if it's literally in his fucking chest? Are they like magnets and resonate or some fucking shit? Fuck this show

where are there examples of an untrained newcomer walking up to a lifelong warrior and owning his shit

Mfw it was foreshadowing

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>A character may be judged Mary Sue if she is competent in too many areas,
Fits Arya
>or is viewed as admirable by other sympathetic characters.
Literally has a scene where Beric and the Hound fawn over how courageous she is
>Mary Sues are generally presumed to be idealized self-inserts rather than true characters, although they may actually be intended as point-of-view characters for the reader.
Might not be a self-insert per se, but definitely meant to be a point-of-view character for the feminist fanbase of the show to identify with
>Someone at TvTropes observed that "Mary Sue" is actually the reaction that fans may have to a work that "is unduly favoring a character by changing other characters or the environment in inappropriate ways.
And this is what's happening right now.

Lol. Nice try but this was totally different. In TFA, they coreograph as if the Red Lobster dude tied up her sword arm so she drops it and that somehow frees up her arm. Makes no sense.

In GOT, Arya's arms aren't miraculously freed when she drops the blade. It's a completely legit move.

Criticize the writing but the choreography here is is legit.

It often is but it is specifically defined as a perfect character without any character progression to get there. Those tend to be self-inserts by shit writers who want to see an idealized version of themselves.

Arya is no doubt a special, strong character with special abilities but she wasn't born with that nor is she invincible and perfect.

Did not the girl train for retribution for her family's name for the past four seasons? Plus, the Hound saved her ass plenty. A real Mary Sue wouldn't have need for such experience building.

Arya defeating the Night King insted of Jon would be like if Toph defeated the Fire Lord instead of Aang.

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>Mel obsesses over Stannis being "the one who was promised" to the point she demands his daughter be burnt
>Stannis dies like a cuck to a fucking woman

>Mel starts obsessing over Jon being the one who was promised.
>Nothing happens.
>A 16 year old girl kills the NK instead.

Jesus what was the fucking point of it all.

have sex

She didn't swordfight the night king to death though did she? She assassinated him with a very simple thrust of a knife.

This. Stories should inspire, not demoralize.

But what else can you expect from a show produced by two fucking kikes, ay?

On the plus side, I did finally get to see that little goblina's side boob. she's got a great rack. I kind of want her to do full frontal but since they're all about using her to subvert expectations I don't want the final episode reveal to be that she is actually a trap with a prosthetic hodor penis

I don't know. Is it even the same thing? What knife did the little fairies use?

All I'm pointing out is that it thematically wraps around. He was created with a knife to the chest and taken out by a knife to the chest.

I really sympathized with Mel this episode, I too wanted to kill myself after witnessing such hackery

>But it's not subversive at all for a Mary Sue to kill the ultimate bad guy.
I disagree. It was more subversive because nobody knew how much of a Mary Sue Arya actually was until she killed the fucking Night King.

>unironically better
Endgame wasn't better at all. It was also a gigantic disappointment with an even more nonsensical plot.

>subverting expectations
>Aryas entire story arc has been learning to become the best killer ever
>learned how to wear people's faces and entirely shapeshifting her body to become an even better killer
The real subversion would have been Arya attempting to kill him and getting utter btfo, either physically or though the use of her power being linked to the NK though death

I mean

Is there ANY way we can stop this stupid fucking trend? Any way at all?

the sex wasn't shown on screen, there's no proof her hymen was ruptured, actually she seemed very unsatisfied after whatever they did, they could have just fondle each other and kiss without actually having coitus and there's nothing to prove otherwise.

break up media monopolies and big tech monopolies because this is just one big psy op

>Might not be a self-insert per se, but definitely meant to be a point-of-view character for the feminist fanbase of the show to identify with
Sure and this is a magical world with Jon fucking Snow who was born with the right lineage and becomes the greatest swordsman in the world and leader of the north who leads the war against the dead. And he was brought back to life from death. He gets to bang the hot main female character and gets to ride a dragon. He's meant to be the male idealized character for male fans to identify with.

So is Dany. This show has been full of special characters who are really cool and shit. Lol what kind of argument is this?

This show is full of magic, special abilities, unexplained, and inexplicable events. Yeah man. That's the show we're talking about here.

A mary sue has no character development. They are just perfect from the git go. Arya isn't that. She worked up to being an ace. Criticize her and the ending if you want but calling every female character that is strong in this show a mary sue is inaccurate.

umm when cloud strife threw sephiroth off the mako reactor bridge in nifleheim he wasn't even in S.O.L.D.I.E.R which you find out when he comes back from being lost in the lifestream

since FF7 is the greatest final fantasy game of all time that's pretty legit

Say what you want but the russos went out of their way to give the fans what they wanted (mjolnir n cap, avengers assemble) and the feminism that was forced on them they did in the most patronizing way possible as a fuck you

Unironically this.
>reeeeee, super special op female character in a fictional world with magic and op abilities

>and the feminism that was forced on them they did in the most patronizing way possible as a fuck you
imagine thinking this unironically, holy shit you are dumb

Glad i dropped this shit mid season 7 when i realised just how awful writing is and its literally just a bad tumblr fanfiction past season 4
Also reminder to kill yourself if you still like this show and watch new episodes without just skipping to jamie scenes

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But one of the Russos plays a fag in the beginning?

There's nothing inherently wrong with subversion, only when it's done for the point of subversion and without care for the audience's expectations and hype.

i think the meaning has changed again and it often means someone too good, unrealistically good

was this a deus ex machina?

The faceless men have abilities that walk the line between reality and magic. She was trained by them. She defeated one in combat. She's the blind nigga samurai.

She snuck up on him. It's not that hard to believe. She sneaks around a room full of undead and doesn't get noticed until she accidentally made a sound, a blood drop and door closing without a click.

I wish they hadn't slowed down the knife trick and made it happen in a flash but whatever I'm not in charge.

Why does she look like danny devito in this shot

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Hang yourself already you mouthbreathing retard

Many people expected that was mary sue writing, what NOBODY expected was that it was real. They have trumped up the story as this big "iam not like other fantasy writers te-hihih", the big plot twist is that they wrote the biggest mary sue in history, and made a point of promoting it as if it wasant.

The "little ninja badass girl" is one of the oldest most idiotics mary sues you can write, its the definition of teenage girl power fantasies. It happened in star wars recently, along with in many other stories, older and recent.

If this is how it plays out in the book George will be remembered as one of the biggest frauds in literary history.

This is teen wolf and twillight levels of retardation, and i hope to god that is not what martin intends, but seeing the show now, and how much of an outspoken progressive he is, i'am seriously starting to get worried.

you didnt miss much since you dropped it. melly returned this episode, that was alright. the rest was forgettable. you saw lady olenna's final scene, you did everything right. the last really great moment of the show.

Long ago it was associated with self inserts, of children inserting their flawless donut steels into D&D campaigns

Sam is GRRMs claimed self-insert, and sure as fuck no one calls the fat fuck a mary sue. It just means flawless or only ancillarily flawed character

So the Azor Ahai prophecy was bullshit?

I think incels just call every special female character a mary sue.

>she's a special character therefore she's a mary sue
Yeah and Jon Snow is special. Literally fucking comes back from the dead. Talk about shitty writing. This show isn't realistic. Sperging over OP female characters in this context is inconsistent.

>people have the audacity to say this episode subverted expectations
Has anyone said that?

No that's what the dragons are for.

Or the night king surviving fire because we need his death to drag on a bit longer.

A lot of people seem to want a Hollywood movie. In a realistic setting, just because a character is a general or "important" doesn't mean they are invulnerable to conventional danger. And unlucky rock and you die.

Though admittedly the show contradicts a dedication to realistic tone by giving ass pull survivals to "important" characters repeatedly in the very same episode.

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Pure, unadulterated autism.

Should of have everyone be driven from the castle into the forest and, after 3-5 other main characters bite it, zombie stannis brings in a surprise assist for the final anyaa/john kill.

>Someone literally sacrificed his life to save her
>Mary sue
c'mon now

It just feels really poopy cause I expected a lot of main characters to die since it was so seemingly built up and hyped for the longest time and every time I saw a main character I was like “oh shit this is it” but then the camera would just keep cutting between different characters fighting for their life over and over again and then literally nothing happened.

Except ya know my boy Jorah and Theon and little Lyanna but I just expected more and it felt like I’d get more but then I didn’t

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>people have the audacity to say this episode subverted expectations
It did subvert expectations. It subverted expectations in the same way The Last Jedi subverted expectations.

C'mon. What did you think the forge was about at all?

Definitely Mary Sue

Everyone knows that it's apart of the global liberal conspiracy to turn the planet into a communist fag colony.

Thank white baby jesus I got my guns

It was subversive that the Night King had no importance, no meaningful motivation, and ultimately no real payoff. All of the fan theories about Bran being the Night King, or the Night King being global warming or whatever, none of that happened. It was completely subversive of expectations; it's just that the expectation being subverted was that we were going to get something good.

I would have preferred a better end for him but for the sake of memes
>Arya played spy in TF2 for 1000 hours

#Trump2020

>Arya has to hide, HIDE, and sneak, to avoid detection in the keep

>They hear fucking blood drops on the floor

>Minutes later, she teleports and kills the Night King

This makes absolutely no fucking sense. If she was a super ninja, she should be teleporting/killing them with ease as they are FAR BELOW the fucking Night King, who withstood a DRAGONFIRE BLAST.

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Maybe that's that the twist. You didn't expect that they could do so bad, but they did. Just to prove you wrong.

was there some significance to Jon bailing on dany and sam and all that or?

HOW COME NONE OF THE LEAKERS GOT THIS RIGHT?

>Do you know what the worst part is?
>She'll kill Cersei too

I don't really see the issue with the way things played out.

Yes, she was the one who technically delivered the killing blow to the NK but so what? Jon Snow is still the true hero. Arya wouldn't have even had the chance to kill the NK if he hadn't united the north and convinced the dragon queen with 3 (now 2) dragons and a sizeable army to help defend Winterfell. The city would have been overrun in minutes, Arya and Bran would be dead, and the world would be fucked. Just because he didn't swing the sword doesn't mean he wasn't responsible for the victory.

You ignore the greater implications. If Arya killed the Night King, then she is the Lightbringer. And The Prince Who Was Promised is the one who pulled the Lightbringer from the fire. In this case, the fire is the Brotherhood Without Banners. I think you know what this means

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you know that to do drawfags

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>Yea Forums - people use words they don’t understand

What is the background of the showrunners

pry desert people out of positions of influence

I bet one did, but there are so many fan theories fake leaks and all it got buried with them.

it was already done in another thread

Well obviously shes not double triple spin flipping from wall to wall but the girl can ghost walk.

It's a fantasy show. Hobbits can go unnoticed when they wish why cant little miss blind nigga samurai?

Its obvious they put that sneak scene in just so that when she kills the NK everyone will be pissed because of the previous scene. People know it doesnt make sense. But that is the whole point.

Almost every form of entertainment recently is designed to piss people off. They are breeding negative energy. Think about it.

Cleganebowl, Hound is seriously injured, and arya mercy kills him with needle.

>sneaks quietly to avoid random low tier undead at the castle

>kills the night king in one shot

SPOT THE PROBLEM

>supporting a kike puppet

You mistake me for someone else, pal.

The fuck is this, Clue?

Should have fled south where it was warmer. Bought some time to make the proper fortificaitions and picked a prime location to make their stand instead of a castle in the middle of a tundra surrounded by flat terrain on all sides.

Should have stocked up on wildfire

Choosen a setting in which to funnel the dead like the gate at Meereen or something.

Ballistas up the ass to take the night king out of the sky.

I mean anywhere but on the night kings home terf where rations are hard to bring in and the elements weaken living soldiers.

>changes into a walker to sneak around

gee faggot why not do that IN THE LIBRARY AT THE KEEP WHERE SHE WAS HIDING UNDER BEDS

HOW CONVENIENT

When did this board turned into tumblr and reddit

2016 election

You made the right choice by voting for him, we had no other option.

I don't have an issue with her killing the night king. I do think there should have been more explanation as to exactly how she snuck up behind him without alerting the other walking dead.

I also think the dead hearing her little drops of blood while they are making more noise simply walking around was a bit hyperbolic.

But hey I stopped expecting realism and consistency in this show a long long time ago.

If I knew this was how the NK was going to go down, I wouldn't have bothered to watch it at all. I feel swindled.

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It was a stronk wymn you incel! Deal with it!!

Yeah that was great. They even show you the exact moment her spirit breaks. She reverts from badass to child and shes hiding. Killing them would only bring more. Then she gets her second wind and goes to ambush the nightking the only place she knows he'll be. Notice she doesn't help the iron born fight walkers?

...

Yes. He didn't bail on Dany. When he left her she looked like she was fine on her Dragon.

When he runs past Sam it's because he doesn't have a moment to spare and the world is literally on the line. It's much bigger than him or Sam.

>I feel swindled by a show produced by jews

You deserved it

she has to sneak around pleb tier enemies yet the NIGHT KING is dispatched in a single blow.

shit writing.

I'am not american, nor do i live in the USA.

FYI this is supposedly how our latest Yea Forums shooter was stopped in San Diego - for real. A rabbi grabbed his gun.

Oh fuck. The Hound is afraid of fire. He has rejected the lord of light so many times. Burned by fire.

To turn out that he was the Prince Who Was Promised would be Lucas-tier poetry. I can get behind it.

Except she almost died multiple times without the help of men.

so the baby they did earlier is going to become new night's king

Furthermore, the night king and the dead should have been the final battle, not Cersei. Cersei should have been defeated in the first half of Season 8 and then the armies of men could have been consolidated for the final battle against the dead.

wtf spoilers

Agreed, everything was over so quickly after 8 fucking seasons. Also, where is Ghost

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add endgame thanos

>No one expected Arya to fucking kill the Night King.

I did. It's obvious. Like when they have a new wearing a helmet in a fight. It's going to be a woman.

To be fair she could have one shotted any of those walkers too but it was obvious that it would have been wasted effort and that it would only result in a zerg rush. I understand her sneaking around as her assassin class would do to focus on the more important target but yeah, showing the walkers being able to detect the slightest slightest noise whereas the night king didn't notice her sneak up is poor writing.

I don't think the walkers should have been able to hear her at all. Their footsteps and grunting would have been louder than a drop of blood from 5 inches off the ground. That whole chase scene was a bit unnecessary. They could have shown her sneaking around to get to bran.