Endgame Plot Holes

What about the 2014 timeline that now has no thanos, no kree army and no gamora? Those are pretty massive changes

By putting the Stones back when they got them, it had almost no effect on the events of that timeline. In that timeline, the stone blinked out for a second and then that's it.

>Didn't they say that if you change something in the past it wont affect the present?
It doesn't affect their present but it does affect the timeline they take the stones from.
>takes time stone from Ancient One
>time stone isn't there for her to use to shit on Mads Milkenson
>When Dr Strange shows up and becomes a sorcerer, he can't use it to rewind time or fight Dormamu
>Dormamu takes over that timeline/reality

Sure, our original avengers won't be affected but the other avengers would.

Shh no you're retarded this is kino plot af and a movie so it doesn't need to be exact as long as there are superheroes.

>Well after I...put the stones back I thought...maybe I'll try some of that life Tony was telling me to get...
>It was beautiful
KINO SCENE!

it was ok, just a film
youtube.com/watch?v=o4r_kW7QGqg

Because Sneed

The objective was just to send the stones back to their respective timelines. Not really fixing the so called "butterfly effects". Bruce explains this, he basically says that 'back to the future' logic isn't possible, 'going to the past' is the avengers future. Think of it like this:

Chronological MCU events:
>NYC attack
>Thor: the dark world events
>Starlord stealing power stone
>Infinity War Thanos snap
>Tracking and killing thanos
5 years later
>Tony inventing time travel
>Going back to NYC attack
>Going back to asgard
>Going to steal the power stone before starlord
>Arriving back to the present

The past has already happened. Going in time does not alter THEIR PRESENT.

sounds like they're fine since no thanos means that no one is there to do the snap. sure, things will change but the whole point is to make sure that the timelines won't be destroyed because they didn't have the stones

If it doesn't affect the original timeline but it DOES create a split timeline, why is it even important to minimise the changes they make?

Hell, Tony has an extended conversation with his father, why was that ok? Why didn't he warn people about Thanos if he's fine with fucking about with things?

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>Hawkeye goes back and creates a split timeline where he calls his daughter
>everything else plays out the same
>so the Avengers from this timeline will also have to time travel to undo Infinity War
>so it'll have a hawkeye that goes back and does the same thing
>infinite timelines

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>we go back in time and get all the stones
>we make sure no one will miss them by taking them at the right time
>leading to our timeline being unchanged/fucked
>use the stones
>return them
fixed

It doesn’t create a split timeline.

How does Captain America even return all the stones in the first place.
Does he return them as soon as it was taken from the past? Then he would have great difficulty. Breaking into high security vaults. Different planets. Does Mr red face just sit around waiting until someone returns the stone? That sounds like a boring job.

>It doesn't affect their present but it does affect the timeline they take the stones from.
Think of it like this.
Now every single timeline must also create a time machine to go back in the past to get the stones to defeat Thanos. Which means there is now an infinite amount of timelines all going back to the past each time doing the same thing over and over again all perfectly.
But that also means someone stole the stones from the current timeline which doesn't happen because we already saw the current timeline in Avengers Assemble.

how did captain marvel find tony and nebula

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This is what I don't get, a lot of things changed. Cap knows that Buck's alive for example. How does that not create a split timeline?

Tony pulling the stones off of Thanos's glove at the end was so fucking stupid.

muh vagina

muh nano bots

so please explain why they had to go to alternate timelines then since they past already happened meaning that if thanos fucked the stones now they would still exist in their own past meaning that meaning that having to go to another timeline wasn't necessary

They can warp to exact co-ordinates so they could know exactly where and when they need returned.

Soulstone's a bit more awkward, though.

>How does Captain America even return all the stones in the first place.
>Does he return them as soon as it was taken from the past? Then he would have great difficulty. Breaking into high security vaults. Different planets. Does Mr red face just sit around waiting until someone returns the stone? That sounds like a boring job.
captain america should be able to return everything pretty easily
>space stone
put it back in the vault
>mind stone
hand it over to SHIELD/HYDRA
>power stone
put it back in the force field where quill can find it
>time stone
hand it back to ancient one
>soul stone
give it back to red skull
>reality
inject what's her face so she's carrying it again
they skipped it because it would have been boring except for meeting with red skull

How do they put the soul stone back?

>Tony used reality gem to make everyone think he's dead.
>everything is fine, Thanos and Army banished to space.
>Tony's eating cheeseburgers somewhere.

Because nothing changes. He goes “Huh, maybe Buck IS alive.” And then what? Nothing, there’s bigger threats.

Loki escapes with stone...and both still ends up on Asgard.

The Thanos comes to the future, but not until everyone is resurrected, thus it doesn’t matter if the snap happened or not.

There is ONE timeline, with no unstable paradoxes.

Shove it up the corpse of Scarjo's ass.

why dont you take your digits and go fly and ask red floaty guy yourself! go ahead!

>here, you can have this
>thanks

In fact, couldn't he just give it to the avengers or something?

>Because nothing changes
>States things that changed

Retarded or something?
The past can't be changed. Things that have happened have already happened. They've created branches. The significance of those branches may vary but they are still branches.

The ancient one said that if an infinity stone is taken out of the timeline, shit would get all fucked up right?

How come nothing happened to the universe any of the numerous times a stone got destroyed?

because they're setting up the MCU for alternate timelines overlapping and causing chaos. so they have much more opportunity to connect different realities and have different versions of heroes appear and make sense like in enter the spideyverse.

It self corrects. None of those things matter. The only thing that could have been a paradox was Thanos coming to the future preventing himself from snapping, but it happens after Hulk snaps, preventing the paradox.

Do you need the Ancient One to explain it again to you? There is one timeline.

She knows the future, removing any one of the stones at that time would have rendered the universe defenseless. Against, for example, dormammu.

Did Cap use the Pym Particles to transfer back to 2023 once Peggy died or something?
How did Cap return the Reality Stone? Did he sneak up on Hershlag and shove it up her ass?

How does it self correct? Are you literally braindead. They state multiple times in the movie that you cannot change the past. It doesn't work that way. Cap can't suddenly remember telling himself Bucky's not dead. A different set of events didn't somehow just happen in the past. What the fuck are you even talking about

So, instead of a risky time heist, why not travel to back in time to The Garden, before Thanos destroys the stones and kill him, they can even do that universe a solid by snapping everyone back then taking the stones back to their universe and doing the same

>Space stone

BIG problem, its supposed to look like a cube, not a stone

>why not make time travel work right
fuck of this is marvel

They couldn't beat Infinity Thanos with a full cast, not sure how they'd put up a better fight a second time.
Would have loved it if they decided to go to the same place at the same time - the IW fight versus Thanos and have a do-over on that fight, with some of the cast becoming doubles. Then they borrow that timeline's stones and promptly bring it back.

Two timelines created, both saved. No fuck ups.

How did Captain America put the soul stone back?

Cap fought the Red Skull when he went to return the stone. Uncovering the truth of the Red Skull's duty and becoming the new soul stone guide. He spends decades there, waiting for someone to claim the soul stone once more. He then returns to his own timeline once his job is complete, and that's how we get old man cap.

Who says he did

Because it's shown before Thanos even gets one stone he already fucks people up, so a 6-stone thanos is omnipotent and completely suicidal. It makes sense that getting the stones before thanos is even aware of them is the safest play.

Even Thanos with no stones was fucking everyone's shit up

why didn't tony just build 20 suits and strap reactors to them
problem solved

Only because Thor was fat.
They should have got Thor to hit the gym before going back in time. The movie would have only been 2 hours long and we wouldn't have had to waste so much time.

The reality stone is the really problematic one. How did he get it back inside of Natalie Portman?

He was pretty fucked up after using all of the stones, and they wouldn't do a full frontal attack, what if Thor as already there at the Garden after Thanos ports in at the end of Infinity War, and imminently chops his head off

simplest answer is he injected his balls then peed in her butt

Because you can't undo the past, snap already happened. They just needed the stones.

He used the reality stone duh

>They took the gems fromt heir respective timelines
>2 alterations are created: Loki escaping with the Tesseract and Thanos learning about Future Avengers plan
>When Cap returns the gems those branched off timelines disappear, thus the timeline where Thanos learns about the plan doesnt happen
>Loki one probably will be the focus of Disney+ series

Adam Warlock movie incoming

You know how Cap did it

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I hope there is a deleted scene of Cap meeting Red Skull when delivering the Soulstone.

Hmm I guess. I took it as her saying that the universe was held together by the stones and would start crumbling if someone fucked with them

I don’t get why he was able to do what he did without drastically changing everything, like what about her daughter that he kissed?

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Why did the whole of IW set up a 'Hulk comes back out of Banner' moment, only for Endgame to just have 'Here's Hulk in a diner'?

Niece, not daughter.

It set up a “Hulk doesn’t want to come out moment”.

Banner forces the merge.

Reminder there's now a branched off timeline where Loki not only wasn't a prisoner during Dark World, but that he has the space stone, so that whole story could play out VERY differently.

Either old cap or our cap is from another timeline

Hulk was one of the most disappointing parts for me, it felt like a really disrespectful finale for him and we just didn't get anything. It's a shame the last we get of the Hulk will be Ragnarok.

the only thing I can think of is maybe Cap understood that what he was traveling to Was in fact alternate universes and not the actual past, so he decided to Live in an alternate 1940s then when he lived his life, used the wristband to travel back to his universe somehow?

>no kree army
Why?
But yes, in that timeline GOTG happens differently now, to some extent, and these 2 Avengers movies don't happen at all.

>and we'll see the ramifications of those alternate timelines they created in future movies.
I doubt it, unless they have Kang taking advantage of it. Maybe it causes his MCU origin?

When they went to New York Tony and Cap split up to get the cube and sceptre. But the cube and sceptre were in different times right?

Am I the only one who saw Loki behind valkkyrie when they first teleport in?

Cap not returning to the pad means that this cap was not the same cap that was sent from the pad

All will be answered in future movies. You see, Marvel movies take their time and don’t tell you everything. This is what keeps the audience wanting more.

DC could learn a thing or two from Marvel.

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Did you not watch The Avengers?

It makes more sense for the old cap to be an alternate universe cap who stole and returned our infinity stones to deal with Thanos in his own timeline.

>the numerous times a stone got destroyed?
WUT

weren't those 2 different movies?

I keep forgetting that the only reason Cap isn’t old is because he was frozen

No, it means he used his last Pym particle to jump to 1945 to be with Peg.

You haven't understood it properly. Past Thanos could never have changed the snap in the MAIN timeline, no matter when he travelled to.

I wonder if Cap really did lay low and hide in that other 1940's or he was active, saves Bucky, stops Hydra from infiltrating SHIELD, teams up with 1940s Thor to kill baby Thanos

Cepter = mind

Cube = space

Yeah and those were 2 different movies

>removing any one of the stones
No, her or some other magician only use the time stone to help hold off magical or other-dimensional threats, as established in Dr. Strange.

>Did Cap use the Pym Particles to transfer back to 2023 once Peggy died or something?
This is the one that NOBODY knows for sure.

>Cap can't suddenly remember telling himself Bucky's not dead.
A new alternate timelin Cap can (but it will be remembering he WAS TOLD, not telling himself, which main Cap obviously has to remember).

I need to watch the movie again but shield always had the cube, this is shown in Captain Marvel

You know what I don’t even know man I’m
Confused

He would've spawned on the pad if he did. It's implied that he's just been living a second life in the background while everything else happens.

because planets are very big and they can't know the exact place where Thanos is going to appear?

The Ancient One explains it with that strand of time, where it splits if one or more of the infinity stones go missing. They're not so much worried about altering things here or there, they're worried about undamentally fucking up the timeline.

That's a good point. I suppose the reality stone can change it back to a cube.

It would've made things a lot harder for them to get the stones.

Both were in 2012 Avengers

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I want my 'Hulk finally has cause to completely rage out and re-emerge' moment, DAMMIT.

Which means he changed the past which would create another timeline, so he wouldn't appear at the end of the movie, unless the end of the movie is in that timeline.

he could have just stole more in the 1970s

jfc Yea Forums is full of literal retards

>just been living a second life in the background while everything else happens.
Doesn't really follow the alt timeline rules that Hulk set out, which is why people think

They don't have to return to the pad. He could have kept living in alt reality past 2023, then jumped back to the bench in the original timeline. Hulk even mentioned that he "flew past his time stamp" or something like that.

WHY TIME TRAVEL ITS A SHIT TIER PLOT DEVICE AND THEY IGNORE THEIR OWN ESTABLISHED RULES ANYWAY

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some villains exist outside of time and one fucked timeline can come back and bite the main timeline's ass

It's fucking weird they state exactly how time travel works in the movie, then stick by those rules until the very end.

>The Ancient One explains it with that strand of time, where it splits if one or more of the infinity stones go missing.
She, or Banner, NEVER said it had to be a stone that causes a timeline to branch off. Yes, her example showed the stones, because they ARE major items that have large effects, but they even give 'kill baby Thanos' as another example of something that would do it.

>TAKE THAT THING AS FAR AWAY FROM HERE
>NO WE NEED IT HERE TO TAKE THE STONES BACK TO THE PAST, FIND THAT VAN
Actually not really, as you clearly wait till you get back to Earth and probably several weeks before you return them. This moment was the single worst part of the movie, and served only to keep the fighting going and have the scenes of Spider-Man running with it and the whole scuffle around having the gauntlet there. Makes no fucking sense to not leave the planet with it, or teleport it.

when they went back to the future they all should have been in different time line future where the stones were taken. they should not have met up together thats universe jumping.

She literally says the stones keep the timeline intact or something to that effect

>Cap using hammer
Everyone clapped

>”On your left”
Everyone clapped

>Spider-Man shows up
Everyone clapped

>Giant Ant man
Everyone claps

>Scarlet Witch revenge
Everyone claps

>That “GIRL POWAH” scene
Theater was completely silent

Probably the most un-organic shit I’ve ever seen. Like all the men just happen to be busy?

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what this should of done was make Earth 616 and all the other bullshit earths and we could have had the x-men and mutants official now.

I didn't even notice until people pointed it out, it was that flaccid.

Time travel is a shit. Hate the whole aspect

People seriously went into this movie not knowing they were going back in time?

>Guy Steve is counsoling just happens to be gay

Uh what. How can they save people in other timelines. Thanos snaps all of them. This is the only timeline where they win, remember what Strange said?

Yeah. I mean literally nobody cared. Except for... people on Yea Forums. Isn’t that weird? Would marvel really gin up a fake controversy about female superhero’s on the internet? Why would they do that?

I thought the stones would get scattered and it would be a reclaimation battle versus Thanos
This time travel thing blew ass

I'm not disputing that it might be the worst case, but it's clearly not the only case.

>literally first confirmed gay guy in the MCU
>they don't draw any attention to it
I don't see anything wrong with this.

>Theater was completely silent
Based audiences.

I thought it would either be soul stone fuckery (everyone wasn’t dead, just “trapped”) or Thanos changing sides.

I didn’t expect half assed iron man figuring out time travel, just cause the movie called for it.

Well where the fuck did Loki get the scepter from?

I was disappointed the very first time it was revealed that actors had been seen on the old movie sets in old costumes. I was still hoping it wouldn't have been the core of the whole movie.
Now if they do Kang, everyone will go 'Oh, not time travel again'.

It sucked but Endgame is meant to be a ride through 20+ Avengers movies. You can’t get this movie if you don’t get that it’s the capstone of this massive franchise. Love or hate it people have been talking about these movies for a decade.

Wtf is the pad for then? If you can just jump around Where ever and whenever you want with the suit.

Given to him by the Chitauri / Thanos

I'm still mad they didn't have soul stone fuckery to bring Vision back in a duplicate body.

I recall it as going down a dark path or something. But what happens if the stones are destroyed?? Which happened on our timeline anyway.. but only after everything was fubar’d

How would traveling back to return the stones work if that's not their past they're traveling back to but part of a brand new alternate universe? That's dimension hopping, not time traveling.

Thanos' genius plan in Avengers was to give away the one stone he had in order to get one other.

Vision is shit

It’s really too bad they didn’t keep Thanos. He was literally top-tier hero material.

Just came back from it and I can't even picture the scene

So glad I’m not from America. Bloody clapping at the movies. Learn how to express yourselves you monkeys.

How exactly is that a plothole?

This. Didn’t help that he was so OP either. I’m not gunna miss him. My boy Thanos on the other hand....

They didn't really HAVE to return the stones at all. It was courtesy to not fuck up the other timelines (and/or prevent some of thos timelines even having to branch off).

He was OP in Ultron (also bad movie).
But then he does nothing of note at all, and it seems like he’s actually underpowered, with what CM can do.

Why did they want to return the stones though. I really don’t get why this would be bad. Thanos is going to get them all, snap, and destroy them.

Yea, captain marvel literally just flew into their spaceship and fucked it up but decided to put thanos in a fingerlock.. not to mention they had already killed him before with a shittier team.

they basically have Dragonball Z time travel.

Lets rule out Chaos theory and that their very presence in these time lines alters things then we have a couple of possible new time lines:

1) Loki escaping w/ the Tesseract/Space Stone
2) Cap Staying w. Peggy which would have had unforeseen effects.

Also, how does Cap have his shield back at the end? Shit was broke... Not to far of a stretch to think the Wakandans could have repaired it but then how the heck did he get it?

>Girl Power
Funny I was spending too much time watching Peter Parker to give a shit.

It's a different cap

But they can't travel to those timelines in the first place, since that's a whole new universe that was branched off of the main one and not their own timeline's past. If Cap were to try to go to 2012 New York, he wouldn't find the bald lady without the time stone or SHIELD without the scepter and tesseract, that's not part of his timeline that he can travel back to.

>a whole new universe that was branched off of the main one and not their own timeline's past.
Yes, so you go back to the branching point, replace the stone, and the branching doesn't happen. Before the branch the alt timeline and the main timeline were still one single timeline.

Fucking Hawkeye.

Makes sense.

How is cap old at the end? He shouldn’t exist right? How could him being there not change anything.

it's no plot holes, they explain it in a very stupid way

stones together = one massive thread of reality

stones apart = splintering reality (different timelines)

bring all stones back = merge everything back to one reality

since they brought all the stones back, there are no alternate versions of anything. it's all back to the way it was. it all happened the way it happened because it was always going to happen that way, because time travel.

Wait the scene with the Ancient One makes no sense whatsoever.
By going back in time you create a branch. If Cap is going back to return all the stones, that still leaves one branch where the stone did not get returned, which is all the branches that were created during Endgame.
Essentially Cap will create new branches by going back to return the stones - which will be happy branches, but there are still 6 bad ones with no stones.

1970 - Pym is missing a few Pym Particle vials, Howard Stark talked with Howard Potts
2013 - Thor's mom knows she's about to die, Rocket disrupts some guards
2014 - Thanos and his army is wiped out, Gamora is possibly not in that universe, or if she's there then she has some knowledge of future events
2018 - Clint's son is missing a baseball glove

It makes sense if he went back, lived with Peggy for whatever number of years and grows old, then "timetravels" back to his proper timeline

>But what happens if the stones are destroyed?

A super dark timeline, I hope the new Avengers are up for it

So he can travel anywhere any time he wants? Wtf was the machine for?

He can't travel back to that branching point. That's not his past. That's now a brand new universe. He's rewinding a tape, not selecting an edited file. He'd have to travel to another dimension to return the stones, not travel back in time.

All Thanos had to do was grab the Space, Time, or Reality stone and peace the fuck out instead of punching Captain Marvel. This is probably what actually happened; Thanos used the reality stone to make the Avengers/etc think they had won

I thought it only creates a branch if the stones are missing. Thats the only way I can explain capt at the end and other stuff

Given this - and that the Ancient One hands over the stone - this means that changing events in the past does not create other branches, only removing infinity stones does.
This means the events in and did not create new timelines and the past was altered BTTF style and old cap is really cap and cap saved himself at some point and married real Carter

Either that or is correct and they just fucked up 6 timelines

Except in the movie they state multiple times that the past cannot be changed. You can't go and kill baby Thanos. Things that have happened have happened.

There are 6 irreversibly fucked timelines with missing stones.

They decide themselves when they travel back to their original timelines by using their time GPS, but you cannot decide where to go back to unless you use a pad.
I know, I know, there's the line about Hulk "bringing him back", but who fucking knows. There's no way to tie a bow on that particular event.

Only four.
1970, 2012, 2013, 2014.

They messed up with 2 more timelines. 2014 and 2012
2014 timeline is now without a thanos (he's dead now) and with a rogue loki with the tesseract (since he doesn't respond to thanos anymore). That might come back to bite them in the ass if someone else decides to screw up and travel to the 'main' timeline (all perspective, but whatever)
2012 only lacks a few pym particles and that's it. It can be some butterfly effect shit but so far no significant changes

Oh yeah sorry, forget about the grouping

Then changing stuff in the past doesn’t matter at all? I get that it won’t change their present / future, but they could go back have sex with their past selves and then go back, that timeline then doesn’t exist???

This but unironically

>There are 6 irreversibly fucked timelines with missing stones.
Dr. Strange saw 13,999,999 fucked timelines so that's not too bad is it?

how do you think Dormamu travels? the Quantum realm?

Nope, but there's also no reason to return the stones at this point, they'd never go back to these four timelines. Banner got it wrong. The Ancient One was only convinced by Strange giving up the time stone. Who knows why.

I suspect Strange will attempt to reconcile all the timelines to the one success.

He can create portals to other dimensions. It's unclear how.

if that was the case then why was old cap in their timeline

The Ancient One had no problem with lending them the stone as long as they succeded, Strange behaviour conviced her that they would

Let's not forget when Thor stole Mjolnir from the past, completely fucking over the Thor of that timeline.
Unless they can just forge a new Mjolnir whenever they want I guess.

Leaving it open for more movies

She still doomed her own timeline

Cap brought it back along with the Reality stone you brainlet

how?

because of

Oh yeah I guess he did have it, nevermind.

We can assume it's Dragon Ball rules, in which the timeline you return to is the same continuity every time, it just has no effect on your own timeline. Every time they timetravel it doesn't create another branch, they go to the same branch.

from the Ancient One POV she saw Hulk dissappear and 1 second later Cap appeared and gave her the stone back

They made significant changes when they went back, how can it not branch?

All answers can be answered with “they wrote a script and didn’t bother to think about it”

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I just don’t understand how cap ended up on the bench. I would have accepted him coming back to the platform as an old man. Which would have made sense given that banner had just said “how ever long it takes him”.

Fair summary, yes.

The timelines did branch, but the changes they made to the past weren't significant enough that they fucked that timeline for good. Loki escapes, but he's a minor threat. And Thanos went to the future so their timeline doesn't even have to worry about him anymore. That timeline is gonna be okay.

i guess him appearing on the bench is just more cinematic, my headcanon is that he came back 1 hour earlier and just waited for them

>give women a bunch of scenes in the fight already
>still feel the need to shoehorn a "She's not alone" scene

The movie was pretty good and no parts were really specifically bad except for that. It was the most forced scene in cinema history.

Yeah it’s regarded. Futurama did this shit better

He walked up to the bench and sat down on it.
Everyone else might have been too distracted to notice I guess.

not only this but
>timelines where thanos gamora nebula and the army dont exist so the avengers never happen
>inifinite timelines split once cap time travels back since it makes an infinite loop of caps traveling back creating the same timeline over and over again inifinetly
>same with hawkeye
idk its like the writers sat down and said "We're going to make as many plotholes as we can"

also how did thanos time travel his whole army with enough magic power to only travel one person

The MCU takes place in a universe where Cap lived his life with Peggy after returning the stones, showed up at Stark's funeral as an old man and chilled out on a bench while his young self traveled back to another timeline, repeating the same thing.

>There's a timeline where Loki, Heimdall, Scarjo and Tony are still alive, no Thanos to worry about
>but Ego takes Quill since Gamora can't save him, and likely destroys all life
>That timeline is going to be okay
hmmmm

Yeah that was the only scene of the movie that genuinely bothered me. They already had a fuckton of female representation. They had Pepper in an Iron Man suit for fuck's sake. But they still felt the need to stick that all female empowerment scene in. It was gratuitous and unnecessary.

That means there was never any doubt they’d win, as the original timeline already did it. Strange wouldn’t have been worried at all.

No it wouldn’t? Literally no one would be able to create the infinity gauntlet when all the stones will literally always be in the future and they would have literally know way of knowing that

when was this ?

Maybe Ego doesn't find him since the guardians would never form without Thanos coming after the stone.
Ego only found out about Quill because he held an infinity stone without dying.
Without Thanos Ronan wouldn't have been after the stone and the guardians wouldn't use the stone to kill him.

>but Ego takes Quill since Gamora can't save him, and likely destroys all life
haha holy shit

What are you talking about? Unless Tony did his thing, cap would have never gone back. The future isn’t set, the past is flexible. Why is this shit so hard.

There's a pit of bones on Ego - he tried this shit with all his kids hoping for a demigod - he would have found him

The real complicated part is how Cap managed to stay hidden all this time in the original timeline.
Peggy getting dementia helped, but how didn't anyone notice him for all those years?

Why didn't they travel to a timeline minutes before Tony died, tossed the gauntlet to someone else, and take him back to the present? Why didn't they do the same with Gamora or ScarJo? That's more of a what if but still, fuck those timelines the present needs them more.

half of this is headcanon... all of the last paragraph

Tom Holland and Harley Keener Ty Simpkins are so handsome.

1 outcome where they win.

I'm not talking about saving people from the snap, I'm saying save them from whatever bad shit that happens because they didn't have the stone they needed. Like Doramamu. The Ancient One explained it in plain English with a visual aid and you morons still don't understand. You all think it's like other movie time travel and it's not. They explain their own logic very well.

Why didn't strange just take his time stone back and bring Tony back

Well without Gamora getting in the way maybe Groot and Rocket successfully kidnap Quill and turn him over to the ravagers where he gets killed. A bit of a stretch but problem solved.

When Cap marvel has the gauntlet and literally every Marvel girl shows up to help her even Gamora who doesn’t even know who Cap marvel is

I'm talking after they won they should have gone back in time to pluck a Tony from the past and bring him to the present.

>travel with captain marvel to the events of infinity war
>get nick fury to call captain marvel
>two thors, two caps, two ironmen, two captain marvel and a smart hulk
>kill thanos then collect the stones
>you dont have to bother with any time splitting fuckery since you just hand the stones to the avengers just as if they had killed thanos by themselves

It bothered me that they didn’t even tell her about the time travel

They gonna do Kang with a artschool director apparently.

Recall that Yondu didn't want him dead, he wanted to save him from Ego.
If they handed him to the ravagers, they'd hand him to Ego, one way or the other.
I'm sure we can come up with reasons why it wouldn't happen, but I think it's fairly likely that it did.
Of course, Strange would know it was happening, and would likely do something about it, but who knows honestly

Yep

Would have erased Tony's kid and he would have bailed on the plan.

Yeah but when they get back to their reality, Thanos would have still snapped. You're using conventional movie time travel logic, not the rules they laid out in the movie.

his daughter is still alive in his timeline though? It'd be up to timeline B tony to get pepper preggers

Because they threw in a causal loop when they said it didn’t work that way. Cap hiding the entire time in main timeline is stupid as fuck. Them letting an old man sit on a bench metres away from them doing shit to save the world is stupid as fuck. The captain America chilling on the bench fucked up the movie for me.

Why didn't they travel to Titan, pull the glove off of Thanos and bring it back to the present?

>Cap hiding the entire time in main timeline is stupid as fuck.
That's not what happened though. There are no loops in this version. I don't know why you people are having such a hard time understanding something so simple.

>go to timeline B and kill inifinity war thanos
>go back to timeline A and snap the fingers
>send someone back to timeline B and give the timeline B avengers the stones
how is this breaking the movie's time travel logic?

Then how the hell did he end up on the bench?

if cap goes back in time, and stays in the 40s then how do the superheroes of today even know who he is since he doesnt get encased in ice, SHIELD is never formed so none of the events of any movie post-Captain America even happens

even bullshit timetravel doesnt explain the plothole properly, because "your futures past is your pasts current future", that literally means nothing

He was already frozen. There were two caps in that timeline. One frozen, and one from the future.

That's how they'll bring back Iron Man, Captain America, and Black Widow in the future. Duh.

But don’t they still gotta fight other bad guys in their timeline?

I think its meant to be implied that cap lived the rest of his life from the 40s to modern day
but that would make him almost 100 right, so why wait that long to reveal himself to the cast

if he went back in time, to live in the past, then there MUST BE a split timeline that has a cap living through the events of history like Korean, Vietnam, JFK, 9/11 etc, but he just doesnt do anything? he just sits tight and looks on as the world goes by so he could wait till 2019 to go see bucky and the nigger?
its completely fucking fucked

>that literally means nothing
It's literally necessary for the story to work. Otherwise they would have just gone and killed baby Thanos.

But they say changing the past doesn't change the future and yet they clearly create a time loop, if that perspective is right.

Of course that's what happened. He didn't time travel back to the present. He went the long way round. And he didn't end up in a branching timeline. Which means he was hidden in the main timeline all along.

He teleported there. You don't need a quantum tunnel to exit or enter once you've already gone through it. Remember when Tony and Steve travel to 1970 without the big time machine? Remember how everyone travels back without building one on the other end? Steve could just come back when he wants. He probably teleported 200ft away and then sat down while they were freaking out over him over-shooting the portal.

Is there ANYTHING she can't do?

yeah but in that timeline, when cap is unfrozen, what happens?
cause hes not gonna be the cap, cause he doesnt have the shield?
will he come back as a villain?
will he just stay encased in ice?
will current cap go and find him in the ice and kill him so theres only one cap?
he knows about the existence of himself in this timeline, so he cant not know when hes going to return

no its not
in the MCU version of time travel, they could go back in time, kill baby thanos, but it wouldnt matter because current thanos is already alive so baby thanos' death doesnt affect current thanos because he already exists

thats why this timetravel is so fucked

Nah, they are putting a lid on those characters. Partially because they represent the original avengers and also because they cost so much money to hire now.

I hadn't realized it, but that's right. It's a Captain America who knows 9/11 happens and refuses to do anything.

Events would unfold exactly as they did originally. Just the time traveling Cap sits back and watches as a civilian.

>spoiler
I guess he didn't want to risk changing things butterfly effect style and potentially ruin their victory over thanos

They had gone through it multiple times though at that point. Why did cap have to enter through the portal when he left to return the stones?

It's still really messy with that and branching timelines, even if we ignore the fact that the timeline is different inherently by him being there.

Think of it as the portal linking you to your "present" time/timeline. They can jump all around after going through once, but where/when they went in the portal makes sure they come back out there instead of in the future of the new past they traveled to. There's no real reason this is the case, but that's how it behaves.

The more I think about this the stupider it gets. Wtf was the blue chick from 2014 doing with the portal anyway. How the fuck did she pick up thanoses massive as spaceship from 2019 end.

Okay, one more time even though I already explained it.

Prime timeline - the MCU as we know it

NYC 2012 - time, loki steals space, mind - Timeline A

NJ 1970 - no space stone - Timeline B

Asgard 2013 - reality, hammer - Timeline C

Vormir, the other place 2014 - Power, soul, thanos & army - Timeline D

Even though Timeline D is chronologically after Timeline A, it's not the same timeline. In other words in Timeline D, Loki never stole the space stone. Everything is normal MCU until the Prime heroes intervene.

Timeline A can't have Ultron because there's no mind stone. Also its version of Dr Strange can't beat Doramamu.

Timeline B can't have Captain Marvel, SHIELD's dark energy projects, or the blue portal above NYC because no space stone.

Timeline C means the Dark Elves get beaten easier. No convergence shit.

Timeline D means The Guardians are never formed. Thanos isn't there either since he leaves.

In any of these timelines there is no Snap. Either because no Thanos or because there's a missing infinity stone. Cap puts them all back and they all play out like MCU as we know it, unless they're part of the bad futures where they ultimately lose to Thanos in Endgame.

Cap then travels back to post-WWII times where a version of himself is already frozen. This is Timeline E. He spends his life with Peggy until she dies of old age probably around 2015-2016. He then returns to the Prime timeline, overshoots the pad, and sits on the bench. The Prime Peggy had a different husband, and is dead as we seen in Civil War.

Still don’t get how he ended up on the bench and not on the platform. If he had just came back on the platform this would all make sense.

Tony and Steve somehow ended up in NJ, which is a bit away from Manhattan, without a platform to jump to. So obviously there's not only movement in time, but movement in space is also possible.

The real fucked part is that they know how to time travel now and there's no reason for them not to. Even without the time stone they can still just build a new machine, and use Pym particles. So whatever future threats exist, they can just time travel their way out. Now the subtext of every future movie is "why not just travel back and fix things again?"

14,000,605 possibilities

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How can you not understand branching off?
If time is a road, the branch point is a fork. AHEAD of the fork are 2 different timelines, but before it there's a single road.

out of an infinite amount of possibilities.

You kind of have to handwave it as Thanos' gang as being able to reverse engineer the whole technology from the one watch thing.

Yeah, that would fix everything. is pretty close to how it would make sense, but there's no reason to think "overshooting the portal" is possible when returning.

>Tony and Steve somehow ended up in NJ,
The return trips to the Prime Tmeline always come back through a portal. Time machines inherently travel through space as well, it's probably part of the coordinates they typed in.

They literally saved that other Timeline by killing their Thanos. That other Universe will never go through the snap now that their Thanos is dead. They saved the other Universe and Fixed theirs at the same time.

which is why I don’t see why they have the platform in the first place. If you can jump from one timeline to another with just the suit and some red shit.

i agree

>bring all stones back = merge everything back to one reality
>bring all stones back
Oops, loki in 2012 has the space stone.
Plus, Thanos disappearing in 2014 makes another timeline. It doesn't HAVE to be a missing stone.

That's why they did the "past is really the future" thing. No amount of time travel can fix the problem in the timeline they care about.

This isnt Dragonball my dude

The earth moves through space you know. Going back in time 2 months would result in you dying in space unless you can move through space as well.

>not knowing they were going back in time?
I think most people expected something with time travel - but with the time stone and as the conclusion/epilogue, not plot

The gauntlet was visibly damaged after the last the movie, I figured it wouldn't be capable of powering multiple stones at the same anymore, making for an even fight with Thanos

Instead they chop the head off a cripple, cry for half an hour, nerf thor, delete hulk and build a time machine

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>If you can jump from one timeline to another with just the suit
I don't think they can really control it. They don't really explore the idea in the movie.

2013 - Loki has had the space stone for a year, and isn't in his Asgard jail cell when the elves attack. Major changes could result (if Loki hasn't fucked anything up with the space stone already).

Same in my theater. No one cared for it

>No amount of time travel can fix the problem in the timeline they care about.
I should point out that this just prevents it solving problems involving killing someone. The same "we need this item that was stolen/destroyed" can always be fixed, but time travel probably won't come up again because it's incredibly hard to do it well once, let alone twice.

>all the brainlets in the thread
It's so simple and yet you refuse to understand.

The jump from 2012 to 1970? The example you just said ending up in nj from New York. No portal was needed to go from the 2012 timeline to the 1970 timeline. So I don’t see why they need a portal for any other jump.

>this means that changing events in the past does not create other branches
No it doesn't. When Hulk said you can't kill baby Thanos, he didn't mean it'd be magically impossible, he meant it wouldn't change the established/main timeline. You could kill the baby just fine, and FROM THAT POINT ON, in that branched off timeline, there'd be no Thanos. But return to the present you came from, and Thanos still wasn't killed as a baby, and the snap still happened.

what happened to cable's timeline?

>Didn't they say that if you change something in the past it wont affect the present?
they never once tested this theory why the fuck not? you just have to send someone back an hour to scratch a table or something

This seems to be a big detail a lot of people have missed but they did stress that when you ‘alter the past’ in this version of time travel you create an alternate reality, where that timeline is different. Hulk hinted at it and the Ancient One stated it explicitly. Whilst it is probably more accurate than most time travel rules it’s for convenience. But yeah they kept entirely consistent with their established time travel rules.

>>but Ego takes Quill since Gamora can't save him, and likely destroys all life
Wasn't it more Rocket and Nebula crashing their ship into Ego that saved Quill?

Well they had a finite amount of pym particles. But yeah they could have done that test as part of the other tests.

That's not true though. The timeline they took the stones from has a Thanos that went to another timeline and died. Therefore that timeline will never need a time machine to fix what Thanos did because he never snapped

Post
>yfw
youtube.com/watch?v=99gkJfL27qY

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>We only have enough pym particles for one attempt.
>Hey why don't we just steal some pym particles from the past? That's literally what we're doing with the infinity stones after all. And Scott, you know where to get Pym particles with no risk. And it would be a good test run for the stones.
>SHUT UP! THIS HAS TO BE SUSPENSEFUL!

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It was a nice little nod to Captain Hydra from the comics.

>And he didn't end up in a branching timeline.
But that requires a level of contrivance. Cap with Peggy should create differences in Peggy's timeline, which affect othere people's timelines, which affect...and the next thing you know, 9/11 doesn't happen and there's no way it's the same timeline.

>disney gets word that people aren't clapping for female characters
>clapping now mandatory in all theaters

this isn't dragon ball fuckhead

Except it wont, pepper is already pregnant by the time infinity wars begun, going back in time to kill thanos wont affect anything

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why didn't they at least try? they didn't test a single theory

Thor has ptsd from decapitating thanos, he's gone to shit the past 5 years but "beer that might be good" convinces him to go back?
"time travel is literally impossible" 1 night of creating 3d models of moebius strip later "omg i did it lol"
"hey guys, this is like the only chance we get to go back in time, we might die or ruin the universe if we fuck it up, let's try and tget hings right."
>literally ten seconds after arriving at Morag, "duude I just remember thanos and half the world will be here searching for the stone at this time"
>"also I forgot to tell the other guys that the soul stone requires a sacrifice to obtain, oopsie daisy, i guess one of them will die"
meanwhile in 2012
>"guys i have a plan, we'll have antman become small and literally kick the suitcase from within a crowd of people so that it slides to us, nobody will notice"
meanwhile in whenever the fuck mr beer and furrydude were
>"our plan consists of convincing a girl that this 120kg hobo-looking sack of shit is thor and then we can steal one of the most precious items in the universe from her when she turns around"
if antman can just turn giant, what's the fucking point of hulk? Why didn't he just step on thanos?
how did hawkeye not die when a huge concrete building collapsed on him?
why the fuck would you act surprised when your BROTHER asks for mayo on his hotdog? jesus christ, was this the first time they had hotdogs as a family?

Then he'd be traveling to a different universe, not traveling back in time. None of the events of the time heist happened in his past in 2012. If he set the date of the battle of new york in his time watch and traveled back he'd meet a wizard with the time stone and Shield agents with the scepter and tesseract, while having 6 infinity stones in his briefcase.

>He then returns to the Prime timeline, overshoots the pad, and sits on the bench.
This is the issue. Why did the movie have it happen this way? He could/should have turned up on the pad, as an old man.

They seemed to have it as an already established law of physics.

>they had a finite amount of pym particles
That's honestly a near-plot hole, even if they couldn't just go back and grab more, and if all of them in the present were in their possession. For some reason they're supposed to be really, really hard to figure out but it feels like with the tech already understood enough to build a giant quantum portal without testing, the particles can't be that hard either.

>pepper is already pregnant
He's not held up on "I don't want to not have a kid", it's "I don't want to lose the kid I have and lovex3000 now".

>Then he'd be traveling to a different universe, not traveling back in time
You're the only person who thinks this, though. And I don't get why.

I just accept it as that the portal can send him back to a specific timeline somehow, and undoing the changes in the right order will have him hop through the right timelines.

No the cap fucked it up at the end. Or the platform they were using was useless as they jumped from 2012 to 1970 without one.

Do you think going back to dinosaur time, making no changes at all, and coming back, STILL creates a new universe? Because in this movie, that isn't what they're saying at all.

So fucking hype

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>as they jumped from 2012 to 1970 without one
To return to the original timeline (the one we actually care about), he needs to come through the portal. Any amount of time travel after going through the portal isn't going to be in the same timeline, no matter what. Going from 2012 to 1970 is fine, since that's still not in the Prime timeline.

Thank you. This was my only major gripe with the movie. And whether the portal actually did anything they couldn’t do without it.

Then how did cap come back without going through the portal?

its possible that its a multiversal thing were multiple caps are staying with peggy and living their lives in secret, we are told that peggy had a husband.

That's just it being unclear what makes a new timeline that sticks around. All we really know for sure is that removing an infinity stone will do it.

That's why it's a plot hole. The only explanation that kind of works is that putting all the stones back removed the other timelines (except maybe the one with Loki escaping), and somehow the timeline disappearing just plops him down in the next one until only the original is left.

Obviously he brought Quicksilver with him who ran him over to the bench and then princess carried Wanda home to make sweet forbidden love to each other.

now. but actors tend to get cheaper if they got rehired. hamill was paid 8 mil to appear on last jedi.
knowing rdj's addiction, he will probably go back to mcu just so he can have something to distract himself with.

The biggest plot hole is why did nobody want to marry Rocket?

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>ould make him almost 100 right
200

Furries don't get roles in Hollywood.

I'm not talking about the actors, I'm talking about the characters.

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It's illegal to force someone to pretend to be a furry.

He already has a gf

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