"Forgive them father for they know not what they do."

sex is degenerate and not that good anyway

This one.

>>"Forgive them father for they know not what they do."
well i mean he's right. the shitstorm this created is non trivial.
plus he said he's coming back, and he will. when society is so utterly fucking cucked and oppressed that it can't stand it any more, it'll begin searching for a saviour figure. it's always the same kind of person eventually who we seek out - someone who can calm shit down and make everyone try to help eachother, after extended periods of oppression and suffering. the 'holy spirit', i.e the perfect personality, is out there now. he's always there, we just have to feel shit enough to need to find his help. shouldn't be too long.

as for 'know not what they do', imagine being judas after jesus was crucified. realising you just took money for backstabbing the son of god. ergo judas hanged himself, he'd have been so fucking scared it'd have been actual hell on earth. jj doesn't make mistakes.

>Because of their experiences during film production, many of the cast and filming crew converted to Catholicism after the completion of the film. Among those who converted was an atheist who played Judas Iscariot.
>Mel Gibson had a Canadian priest, Fr. Stephen Somerville, celebrate the Traditional Roman Catholic Latin Mass of the Apostolic Rite for the film crew each day before production began.
> Mel Gibson has stated that he will give $100 million of the film's gross to the Traditional Catholic Movement.
> Jim Caviezel Was Struck By Lightning Twice. The First Time Was During The Filming Of The Sermon On The Mount. The Second Was During The Crucifixion.
>Mel Gibson: Gibson's hands nail Christ to the cross during the Crucifixion scene. Gibson said "It was me that put him on the cross. It was my sins" that put him there. According to special edition commentaries, Gibson also supplied the foot of Jesus (washed by Mary Magdalene) and the arms that tie Judas' suicide rope. His crying, screaming voice is heard during the latter scene
>Jim Caviezel experienced a shoulder separation when the 150lb cross dropped on his shoulder. The scene is still in the movie.
>In one scene while hanging on the Cross, Jim Caviezel can be seen to have a blue colouration of skin. This was not a special effect, but a case of asphyxiation, the cause of death for crucified victims.
> As of 2010, it has not been commercially released in Israel for "lack of interest".

He gives back all he took from Job and paid with interest at the end.

Making a woman shiver with pleasure while fucking her hard is an amazing experience, I am sorry you never have experienced that.

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but I made giant sea snake n shit so don't talk back!

did the sky nigger gave lifes to his wife and children back as well?

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But his family is dead as shit though.

he just replaced them with a new wife and kids lmao

how do you think job got his wife and kids to begin with?

I really feel like going to church sometimes. But then I realize how uncomfortable I am around people. It wasn't like that when I was younger, I had family to go with. Now we're all separated, and I would be going alone. I would be like a random stranger at the church I don't really belong to. Do people actually go to church alone? It feels like the right thing to do, if I could just work up the courage.

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I go to Church alone, its pretty comfy actually and people there are nice from my experience. Unironically wanted to be a priest when growing up

FATHER FORGIVE ME FOR THESE GAINS I'M ABOUT TO ACHIEVE

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Sex without procreating is a degenerate experience, no matter how cool and awesome it feels.

>degenerate experience
You meant to say 'degenerate pursuit'. You'd still have been wrong though.

Me

He created the 13%

did it sometimes too (or at least once)
just do it

Why is it degenerate

is that true?
especially the lightning part

Last two times I've went to mass the priest has brought up refugees and how we have to help them. Maybe if they stopped trying to ruin my country I would care but the last time I got so fed up I nearly walked out.

just wait
maybe some "refugees" gonna "cultural enrich" your church and your priest

Ironclad does a good martyr scene.

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I doubt it, I live in a middle class area which makes it all the more hypocritical because they'll never be able to afford to live near us.
The church is dying here and I don't know who the hell they're trying to appeal to with stuff like this.

yes. he also was whipped a few times

calling something degenerate is a tautology

>the priest has brought up refugees and how we have to help them

That was unchristian of him. I hope you left him in doubt as to your position, user.

>The church is dying here and I don't know who the hell they're trying to appeal to with stuff like this.
That's sad to hear as a fellow christian, i wish people just wouldn't tolerate absolutely everything and just say "no" for once.

>and I don't know who the hell they're trying to appeal to with stuff like this.
pandering towards sjws and similar crowd
the church does that since years
doubt that it really works

either way, it doesn't matter if refugess can afford to live near you
it only matters, if the government decides, they should live near you

also, where do you live, and are you catholics, or protestants?

damn, was that lightning a sign of god himself?
and what did he mean with that?
did he wanted to say "stop that"
or did he only wanted to high-five him?

Not him but protestant

>degenerate experience

most good experiences are.

feeling good is actuallly bad tho

>implying dead children can ever be replaced

I remember after my surgeries everyone told me to read Job and it just made me feel worse

>good is bad

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Ireland, catholic. The church is in dire straits here, not even just over the sex abuse. They used to take bastards
off single mothers and send them to America to get adopted by proper Christians. So now they just roll over to everything, they didn't even really come out against abortion during our referendum last year

What did he mean by this?

They are just fairy tales, no need to be up set.

Pretty sure he fucked the whore.

Unironically what I tell under my breath every time some faggot does/says something idiotic.

unironically the same, I actually cried with the whole torture scene

Well all the pedophilia and institutional protection of pedophiles didn't exactly help.

what a gay passive aggressive thing to do
why are xtians so effeminate?

I know I said that
but still, their attempts at modernizing by bringing in emotive and frankly chilidish hymns, watering down the religion to 'jesus loves ya!' and so on do them no favours.

And God continued to still not give a fuck about a few million Earthlings as he had existed since the beginning of time and had created and tested Earthlings many hundreds of millions of times.

Why do Christians and Muslims call god omnipotent then claim he cares and loves us?
Omnipotence means he has existed since long as has so many planets and universes under his control that he couldn't possibly care about a few million humans on a shitty little planet in the middle of nowhere.

No, my child, Christ is the SON of God. They're two separate entities

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>I'm an omnipotent being that can forsee future and know everything
>I will put on a spectacle that I know won't hurt me or my authority in any way
>And then I will call it a sacrifice LOL

Jesus was essentially 1/3 of God put into a human vessel. When he ascended to heaven he became one with the trinity again.

Go to an Easter service this weekend, that is a good time for guests to visit.

bring your wallet, bitchboy

The triumvirate is both one and distinct. They are aspects of the same entity

N

Why not go alone? You go there for your own soul, anyway.

Just go. Remember Christians are a family of faith.

where's the fairy in Job?

>Muslims claim he cares and loves us
No Allah only loves Muslims

Dear chosen race, after giving you free will I’m really upset that you guys keep sinning. I’m sending my son to Earth, please kill him so I can collectively forgive you

God/YHWH/Shem

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The leviathan

Literally .0001 of the Universe has been explored and people just wanna say LOL IT WAS GOD. How fucking impatient can you be?

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God is never described as omnipotent in the Bible. In the creation story, he came to Earth (which was just a ball of water with Leviathan on it) and had to tame it to begin creating life.
In the story of Jonah, a man is swallowed by Leviathan (death) for 3 days. One of the last things Jesus says is that he will preform the 'sign of Jonah, ie: enter Death for 3 days. Since God's power level was never high enough to fight Leviathan/death by conventional means, he used his son as bait. When Jesus died, he was swallowed, but once inside the belly of the beast, he was able to destroy death from within.

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Can god create a stone so heavy he cant lift it?
The answer is Jesus

Realistically speaking omnipotence cannot exist, its a logical paradox that contradicts itself.

St. John the Baptist, St. Joseph, St. Peter, St. Paul, St. Andrew, St. James, St. John, St. Thomas, St. James,St. Philip, St. Bartholomew, St. Matthew, St. Simon, St. Jude, St. Matthias, St. Barnabas, St. Luke, St. Mark, St. Stephen, St. Lawrence, St. Vincent, Sts. Fabian and Sebastian, Sts. John and Paul, Sts. Cosmas and Damian, St. Sylvester, St. Gregory, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, St. Martin, St. Nicholas, St. Anthony, St. Benedict, St. Bernard, St. Dominic, St. Francis, St. Mary Magdalene, St. Agatha, St. Lucy, St. Agnes, St. Cecilia, St. Anastasia, St. Catherine, St. Clare

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Made my pee pee small

>God is never described as omnipotent in the Bible.

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Plenty of people go alone, and you're always welcome, all things depending
People should be nice, otherwise they'll just keep to themselves. The ones sitting up front are usually like that, they're also usually the older folk who also go to weekday mass

>Omnipotence means he has existed since long

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>orders you to cut the foreskins of all babies or they will burn in hell for eternity
based yaweh

Giving Samson magical powers for growing out his hair but giving me erectile dysfunction for growing out mine.

Why do (((they))) hate Him so much?
youtube.com/watch?v=HytrKvXGljc

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jewish nonsense, you americans need to stop reading the jew scrolls and focus on the new testament

But then aren’t all of us his children?
Fucking Christianity and their bullshit is about semantics and it drives me insane.
People are so dumb.

Samson didn't take finasteride

Old testament god could be a real dick at times

Who was there to write that shit down?

not anymore retard, literally only der ewige kike does this
and forces it on unsuspecting Americans as their greatest ally

because He expelled the (((merchants))) and the (((moneylenders))) from the temple

kinda sounds like the state of the catholic church in general, I guess

Because He is the only thing that can defeat (((them)))
They'll always push degenerate thinking to make people slaves and forget about Christ

Who was there to write half the Bible down?
>Then Samson reaches towards the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!”
>Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it.
>Except of course for the sole witness, who fortunately came to me - author of this book - so that Samson’s dying deeds would be recorded. Praise be to YHWH that Samson didn’t kill him too

>adam and eve eat of the fruit
>when god shows up and sees them in leaves he has to ask them why they got dressed up
>bUt He'S oMnIpOtEnT

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>Eli Eli lama sabachthani?

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>kid steals cookie right in front of parent
>Child did you steal this cookie?
Same logic here

Based
He became human in the lowest form because he wanted a relationship

god asked cain where his brother was, too, even though he knew damn well what had occured

You really are a special kind of stupid

>Uh, no...
>parent kicks the child out of the house and condemns him and his grandchildren and his grandchildren’s grandchildren to potential eternal torment
S-sorry dad?

Moron. God loves us so much that he personally came down here to get us himself

see

That's not very logical. A=A.

...

We are children of the Father. Jesus is our fiancé.

Make him the Pope already

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Eternal damnation only happens if you refuse to let Jesus guide you into heaven

>OMG first black pope!!!22111!!!!!11!!!!!
despite how based he is this would be his future. it's such a shame

>create sin
>create beings capable of sin
>tell them how not to sin in an incredible cryptic, contradictory book, with millions of these beings never aware of it's existence before they die
>punish them forever when they sin just once
Is god a masochist ?

Mad tranny

the story of Job is a good precursor to the events of the new testament. When Job finally asks why God did this to him, we should not interpret the response as an appeal to some grand plan that is beyond Jobs vision. Rather the response is meant to place God at Jobs own perspective. It's a moment of solidarity
>now you tell me shit's fucked up, where were you when I started all this?
>you think I only messed up your life, but look around, this whole world is just as screwed up
God's experience of himself and the world is proposed to be the same as ours. This is brought to its rational conclusion of God suffering and dying like the lowest of us here on earth. Resurrected through belief and promising the same to us in return.

>Rather the response is meant to place God at Jobs own perspective. It's a moment of solidarity
le "god was there in auschwitz"

Check em and be blessed anons.

Why have thee forsaken me in my most vulnerable hour, Lord.

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I can't lie, I like those t-shirts. How much did they pay Heinz?

>It's a moment of solidarity
What in God's name are you talking about? His response boils down to "shut up and know your place"

>God I’m really sad that all my children died
>Well I’m really sad that they died too but look around you everyone’s dying. This whole world is fucked up. I created a fucked up world. But it’s okay because part of me is going to die a fucked up death, and then some tiny proportion of the population I created have the chance to not have a fucked up afterlife. The world’s still gonna be fucked up and everyone else will also be fucked up in the afterlife though.
>That’s nice God. So are my dead children going to be fucked up in the afterlife?
>Oh, who cares about them, I’ll just give you a bunch of new wives and children.
>Thanks, I guess...

It could be a dream come true. Especially how triggered /pole/ would be.

We're given free will, and whether we decide to be degenerate niggers is up to us

You think god gives a fuck?
Think again. He doesn't care.

And Cain had a smart ass reply back. God was peeved but protected Cain in spite of the genocide the Cain ethnicity stand-in committed against the Abel ethnicity stand-in.

That's the ultimate test of faith, and you're failing it, as is the majority of today's society.

>Dude just believe, I am the good guy here even though I could have prevented all the bad things from happening
>What, not satisfied? To hell you go!

Remember wh3n Jesus said, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?"

Then he said, "It is finished."

Then the modern era started. By the way, how do we change text to red when we quote Jesus, like in the KJV? TIA

It's not like God doesn't want to help you. People chose hell themselves.
>thanks God, but I'd rather watch porn and jerk off than follow your rules
>you're a MaLe BiGgOt CiS sCuM, you're no God of mine
That's how you damn yourself. It's purely your choice. The point of rules and commandments and avoiding sin is to be strong enough to follow the good path. We all know how hard it can be to do a good thing even if we know we should. God's not condemning anyone. It's just when concept of time runs out, you got your last chance before your soul's state is with Truth or not infinitely.

No, just based as fuck desu. Humans are the winiest shits ever, god understands us better than anyone.

But they are also the same being. This is your brain on Christianity.

>You think god gives a fuck?
>Think again. He doesn't care.
t. fat virgin

>Chad old testament God
>Virgin new testament God

the 3 are one, father son and holy ghost. jesus was supposedly the human form of god (or at least a piece of him)

nothing, you don't have to pay for parody

this

Sup fellow PFS bro

OT Yahweh doesn't. NT Jesus does.

What do you mean? He gives plenty of fucks, he gave so many fucks over a bet with Satan that he let Job’s family all die in a single day

>virgin jewish delusions
>chad paulinian fanfiction

To be fair god is a giant dick.
>I created all life
>also sex, womanising, drinking and most fun things feel great
>WTF why do you have sex, womanise and drink?
In all likelihood he is just some autist setting up arbitrary rules. He also doesn't seem to care a lot about starving people or people dying from easily preventable diseases.

No, they're of the same essence.
It's so cool how you guys openly chastise things you have no interest in understanding to begin with. Very badass and epic.

>be god
>help the white guy win the football game and become rich
>make the black guy starve to death in africa

what did he mean by this?

This is my fetish.

No.

Stuffing your mouth with Mcdonalds every day isn't a right. It's sinful excess. And having sex isn't your right either. Doing it when it's not appropriate is also your fault.

>the Devil is the ultimate Jester
>does everything it can to make God angry
>its ultimate goal is to.make His best creation hate Him
>Jesus is born
>everything is forgiven

The Devil got BTFO

He just doesn't give a fuck about humans. Sure he says how much he loves us but then sends plagues, floods and destroys civilisations because they wanted to build a big tower

>be god/Jesus
>appear at a time with limited communication
>don't appear before humans when the whole globe is connected

How believable

God is one god, but three persons of the same essence, I forgot. Makes perfect sense now.

It's so cool how you guys openly chastise things you have no interest in understanding to begin with. Very badass and epic.

Cuck

if you look through history books and connect difference religions/cultures, you'll learn that the being typically associated with the underworld is also the being who helped humanity the most providing them with god like knowledge and "deals" that saved their lives. meanwhile, the being typically in 'heaven' (god/odin/etc) smote everyone for doing anything

tldr; satan is actually the good guy, which is why he is also connected with christmas

Thank you, based christcuck.

it's so cool how you blindly believe in a being that is omnipotent but deny basic science like evolution

>Virgin new testament God
Did you even read the New Testament or are you fueled entirely by boomer memes?

>Matthew 18:6, “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to fall away—it would be better for him if a heavy millstone were hung around his neck and he were drowned in the depths of the sea.”
>But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. -- Gospel of Luke (22:36, NIV)

Only two examples because I don't have any cool pastas to send you, had to fetch these myself. But basically, Jesus advocates for death penalty and wants you to buy a sword to stand your ground because just opening your arms to the unfaithful is cuckoldry - and God does not like that.
Or take that time Jesus whipped faggots out of the temple.

Memes are more powerful when people tell other people about it

It takes times but the results are forever
God knows

If god didn't want to have people to have sex so much he would have made it so that humans have mating seasons like a lot of other animals. Or made it so that anal sex isn't enjoyable.
He is a giant fucking dick and a sadist to boot. Plus he should be omniscient so why not send people directly to hell/heaven the moment they are born?

Good thing people wrote it down so that we could share it in the present then.

Who are you quoting?

>forgive them god because they know not what they do

>god specifically sent his son there specifically to die to save humanity

???????????

>calls out the jews
Mel your still my favorite. Apocalypto the s s masterpiece.

>Jesus advocates for death penalty
american protestantism™

Reminder Christianity is autism.

>If god didn't want to have people to be fat he would have made it so that humans have no taste buds like a lot of other animals. Or made it so that sugar isn't enjoyable.
epik

>he doesn't know what a quote looks like
oh you sweet summer child; how is your day off school treating you?

if god made us and knows all, then we do not have free will.

different gospels. none of the writers of the gospels were there when it happened.

that's the interpretation thats been privileged by systems that want to keep God as otherworldy. A God of the beyond.
> God will make Job see a startling universe if He can only do it by making Job see an idiotic universe. To startle man God becomes for an instant a blasphemer; one might almost say that God becomes for an instant an atheist. He unrolls before Job a long panorama of created things, the horse, the eagle, the raven, the wild ass, the peacock, the ostrich, the crocodile. He so describes each of them that it sounds like a monster walking in the sun. The whole is a sort of psalm or rhapsody of the sense of wonder. The maker of all things is astonished at the things He has Himself made. This we may call the third point. Job puts forward a note of interrogation; God answers with a note of exclamation.
>Instead of proving to Job that it is an explicable world, He insists that it is a much stranger world than Job ever thought it was.

>But it’s okay
again, that's your presupposition, that this is all acceptable to God, when it isn't. I'm saying that your experience of the world as unjust and broken, is exactly how God feels about it. Otherwise we have to think that Jesus wasn't actually suffering at all through his trials, because he had some outside assurance that this was all part of the plan and ok. That would be the highest blasphemy. God has to believe in himself as well.

Or to put this all in an atheist framework: We experience reality as broken, because it is broken. There's no higher order of perception, where all our subjective biases melt away and we can know things as they really are in themselves, and know all past present and future. Our experience of reality as limited is due to the fact that reality in itself is limited. The gaps in our knowledge of objects are gaps in the objects themselves. At no point do we have any reason, any justification, to posit a "perfect" world reality we're apart from. This is all

"why have you forsaken me"

can someone explain this? was he mad at God for killing him and bringin him back to Heaven?

>Chad God
>Divided the red sea
>Sent and army of pepes
>Burning bush
>almost made abrahm kill his son
>Flooded the world
>impregnate a virgin underage qt and cucked her husband
>etc

No, Catholic. He literally says in the gospels that kiddie diddlers need to be drowned.

See

Hardened the pharaoh's heart so he wouldn't free the hebrews so God would be somehow justified in killing the firstborn of all Egyptians

God made the World, but he doesn't want to control it.

You are left with the choice

jesus was human and at that moment, went through one of the most excruciating experiences imaginable. he felt, aside from the pain, probably great despair. i think it is normal for people to ask god why he has forsaken forgotten or allowed such bad things to happen to them in a moment like that.

>give humans free will
>they commit sin and get angry about sin
>"maybe i shouldnt have given them free will"
>Humans: WTF dont take away our free will

4 meme intellectuals challenging my ideals every 3 months on national TV is persecution. I feel ATTACKED.They politicized religion.

This is why atheism is just like a new religion. Because they have opinions, just like religious people.

fedora.jpg

see

But they do Jesus, they do.

He said it were better to etc etc; not you SHOULD DEFINITELY kill kiddy diddlers. He condamned the execution of the adulterous woman with the words "let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

see

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See

Thanks that helps a bit. I just always thought it odd that Jesus being son of God would suddenly not be ok with everything that was happening to him even though he is/part of God himself.

>be omnipotent and all knowing
>get DISAPPOINTED by your creation and decide to destroy it even though you knew how things turn out since the beginning of time
>change your opinion about that midway as well, even though you can foresee the future

topkek. Christianity truly has the deepest lore.

see
and

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See

See, that's now a discussion of whether we should, not if it's allowed. God allows for the death penalty, which was an argument countering user who said God is a virgin cuck.

why didn't he just snap his fingers and give everyone resources and salvation?

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Did you guys notice that he was a carpenter and the tools of execution were hammer and nails and wood?

absolute pottery

RIP Gene

Not even George would go this far.

Watch some donut man, user. He will show you the way
youtu.be/XZ3FU4yB6wA

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the word for carpenter/mason was similar. It was likely supposed to mean mason, as mason would be more in line with the prophecies and stories which all revolved around building things like houses and temples, laying foundations, etc.

thats only because it is well believed that Jesus was fucking Mary Magdalene, a known whore

>create adam and eve without the ability to discern right and wrong
>get mad when they pick wrong

It was an inside job

It's not that hard to control your sexual desires. Stop blaming God for being a little shit. People desire go do all sorts of awful shit, doesn't mean you should. Have some self-control, you subhuman.

My favorite part on Yea Forums has always been the ironic religious posting. Not like the memes and shit, but the people who took "Christian board" seriously and then came here actually talking apologetics and stuff because they believed the memes.

Eve was a thot

right. I find it good that we can shit on MuhaMad and company too

Muslims, Christians and Jews are all semitic trash.

The phallic snake made a very convincing argument

More specifically

>Make two people with no concept of right and wrong.
>Specifically create a fruit they're not supposed to eat, in a world full of fruit they can eat.
>Why did you make this fruit that would turn them into intelligent gods if they ate it? Who the fuck knows. Could you have just as easily not made that fruit? Yes.
>Use them eating it as an excuse to ruin things for people for the rest of history, because you blame them for your fuck up.

Couldn't he just have not made the fruit? Wouldn't he have seen all this before it happened?

What's with stupid people always hating what they don't understand?

why are Christians polytheistic heretics? There is only one God

Extreme people do extreme things. At some point you need to grow up. And then it clicked for some of us.

I don't need some Canadian liberal tell me I need to clean my room when Church does the same much more extensively and with a wider support group.

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Omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive. The only branch of Christianity that is logically consistent is Calvinism (who, remember, drew upon Augustine as well as basic logic to formulate the basic truths of unconditional election, irresistible grace, limited atonement and perseverance of the saints). Christcucks, espscially Americans, can't handle that God is unknownable and ineffable and as fearsome to us as we are to grasshoppers, so they shame everyone for 'sinning' despite the fact that those sins were forewritten, as was their moralizing.

nobody ever took that obvious meme seriously you retarded nigger

He didn't that was Caine

>stupid people
>don't understand
>my made up bible stories

>let jews trick people into being degenerate fuckups
>blame the people who were misled
god sucks

>Omniscience and free will are mutually exclusive
That's where you're wrong kiddo. An entity out of time knowing what you'll do and how you'll end up after time runs out does not take away your choices.

There's literally only one reason people would be on Yea Forums posting unironic Christian apologetics, and that's if they are brainlets who took the memes seriously.

>God is unknownable and ineffable and as fearsome to us as we are to grasshoppers
How do you know that?

imagine having your mind so warped by memes that you believe this

How can it be ironic if they believed it you absolute brainlet? You are as paradox as the holy trinity

It was inevitable that God would make me believe that

totally celebrating easter tonight. Gonna watch passion with some brews and a pizza. fuck yeah

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable
You're probably just an angry atheist because Santa didn't stop your uncle from diddling you or something.

it's schism time
both sides are wrong

I'm saying the ironic shitposting caused the real idiots to feel like they were in good company.

There are people unironically preaching on Yea Forums, it's fucking hilarious.

or rather I was giving free reign as a teenager and not put in concentration bible camps to be brain washed

but you can take your pick

No. It's because we've experienced the world without God and its name is our youth on 4chinz. I can't take you seriously if you can gaze into the dilated tranny abyss and walk away as an atheist. The world is so horrible, you know hell is real and its here with us. Then it's just a small step to repent and want to fix yourself.

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It's basically the reason the "fedora" meme took over - it was a sign that enough unironic, devout worshipers were around and that the internet more resembled the general populace, even on Yea Forums itself

Why did God punish his chosen People (jews)?

But pol likes him? Oh what am I talking about you idiots only bring up pol as a semantic boogieman to win arguments in your head

See this is my point, this is the ironic Christposting that causes real retards to think that they're in good company. Which is fine I guess, it's just funny to me.

It's funny how you go from Deus Vult memes to actual, unironic preaching.

brainlets who just ad hominem Christians without taking the time to read and understand the basics of metaphysics, theology, and philosophy are fucking retarded.

If you believe in God but don’t believe that he’s all-good or all-knowing then what does that make you

U mad?
>or rather I was giving free reign as a teenager and not put in concentration bible camps to be brain washed
Hey, same thing for me, but I'm not a stupid asshole that's just angry because I can't understand things.

Wow. I’m not even religious but it’s starting to become increasingly obvious to me that most atheists are literally too dumb to even understand the religion they criticise. It’s peak pseudism, you can’t attack something from a false notion. It’s like when dawkins “refuted” the 5 ways of aqinas, but was literally too much of a dumb charlatan to know what aqinas meant and therefore refuted his own made up stance.

He knew exactly what choices we would make when he created us.
Essentially, he created someone (or let that someone be created) with the full knowledge that that person would go to hell.

Dumb

Not sure how that was a response to my question?

Also how does one "understand the basics of metaphysics"? And why would an understanding of either that, philosophy, or theology get you any closer to somehow knowing that there is an unknowable creator of the universe?

Is your answer just "You haven't studied enough to understand why I don't have to support my assertion"?

an idiot because you're using the word "God" for "really powerful dude lol"

Well, I suppose the question is what kind of god do you believe in? One that created the universe, or at least the fundamental laws that allowed it to be created, but is otherwise uninvolved? Generally that's called "deism".

I never Deus Vulted tho. I just hate everything and am convinced things were better in the past. Plus, Christian apologeticism, especially Aquinas is powerful stuff.

Yes, and I don't see a problem with that. Your own fault if you're a redditor.

In what way did he misunderstand it?

I'm not even religious but that was one of the most kino movies i've ever seen , based mel.

You can believe in an all-knowing god without falling into calvinism by acknowledging knowing as limited, not god.

>Plus, Christian apologeticism, especially Aquinas is powerful stuff.
Nigga, you fucking serious? There isn't a single apologetic form that is remotely compelling, whether you're trying to go transcendental, presuppositional, or some weird incredulity argument. They're all nonsense.

Khazar milkers

Why would God-incarnate ask why God abandoned Himself?

Jesus as a Muslim prophet confirmed.

If an entity created the universe, would he not be called God?

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The libs and atheists would be so excited until he started reforms that end up with them being Deus Vulted

>having any sort of higher conviction is a meme

This is why incel losers and autists abpund on this board, because for a man to be an actual fucking man he has the strength to humble himself to belief in truisms that he feels and realizes are self evident after actually living through life. Not everyone has to be put in bible camps or similar to return to the church and Christ; it's a redpill that gradually rings truer and truer after having lived a life of sin, becoming an edgy atheist, having seen the world for what it is in politics, seeing true evil, deep introspection and fierce study of metaphysics, science, history, and theology.

Brainlet atheists want some fucking god equation and everything to be done for them. Fuck you.

One example is aqinas and his argument involving “motion”. Any philosophically versed person can tell you that through most of the middle ages motion was meant in the way aristotle termed it, the transition from one state to another. This is pivotal to aqinas’ argument. Dawkins, probably having read very little philosophy and wanting to epically refute aqinas with le logic, assumed he meant spatial motion, which literally makes no sense. He created a strawman that didn’t even make sense if you read aqinas argument as that, but used it as a “refutation” regardless. If you want good arguments against aqinas, kant and hume had some. But Dawkins is a typical pseud like most modern atheists

>kant isn’t compelling
holy pseud

>truisms
I don't think you know what that word means

>Yes, and I don't see a problem with that.
You don’t see a problem with a benevolent God letting someone be born so that person can suffer for eternity in hell? With creating an intelligent species where the majority of its members would go to hell?

woah this guy solved philosophy apparently lmao

>>having any sort of higher conviction is a meme
>Proceeds to meme

Yeah ok. I do like this new combination of memes though. Christians adopting the "incel" meme is gonna be good because now you can stop using logical or apologetic arguments, and start implying that if losers want to become "real men" they have to go to Church. That's a solid tactic IMO.

>and fierce study of metaphysics, science, history, and theology.
If studying history or science makes you religious, I'm pretty sure you're doing it wrong. If studying theology makes you religious, I'm pretty sure you're missing the point.

>u mad
no, indeed I am smiling at your stupidity
>can't understand things
there's a difference between comprehending and repetition and only one of those is considered "understanding". I'll spoil it for you parroting what you heard on sundays isn't understanding

>I’m pretty sure
>I’m pretty sure
I’m pretty sure that’s not an argument

>Kant, the guy who championed empiricism and rationalism, is the guy who's ideas somehow lead you to Christianity

That's one you're gonna have to explain to me.

No. It's their choice if they want to. Free will is a higher good than getting a socialist happy ending. Some people like suffering and it'll be their unironic pick. Sometimes I remember how much I liked jerking off and think I'd gladly suffer just to jerk off a bit more rather than go with God. So I had to stop jacking it so I don't go the wrong path. But it's still a legitimate path I can chose if I want to.

>if you disagree with me you are brainwashed!
totally sounds like someone who understands things lmao

If God is benevolent and omnipotent, why did he allow Junko Furata to suffer agonizing torture and death as a teenager only to suffer further for all eternity in hell because she was a nonbeliever?

It's not meant to be one. Just saying "study science and history lol you'll realize Jesus is the true lord and savior of the universe" is also not an argument. I'm pointing out that I have no fucking clue how one can lead you to the other, and I don't think you do either.

you're all going to fail

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He’s repeatedly called a christian apologist though? Most notably by Nietzsche. One of his major points is that most truth is subjective

>not the Yea Forums approved version

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>start implying that if losers want to become "real men" they have to go to Church
It's true.

Do you have any idea how much respect you get when you say you go to mass irl? People are taken aback, you have the spotlight. Then you double down, say you do it every week. They ask you to make sure you're a believer and you're not fucking with them. You just smirk and say yes. Girls especially want to talk with you after you say that. Now you're the chad of the social occasion. Unironically.

>you are fishing when Jesus starts power walking towards you

youtube.com/watch?v=OL1g881T1us

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>No. It's their choice if they want to.
Fucking wat. You literally just agreed with and said you were ok with the concept that everyone is pre-determined to go to Hell by God before they're born. Meaning there is no choice involved.

You can't then say YOU chose to stop jacking off. God chose that for you, he created you in such a way that at that moment, you would make that choice. There is no free will there.

You could not believe this, but it would contradict what you previously said.

How is this relevant lol

Pope Benedict wrote books about evolution as a guiding principle of God.

no, unless if you think if an average human can create a universe then they should also be called God

Why are the jews so evil?

If God was truly omnipotent, he could have easily reconciled free will and belief. He can choose not to create someone that ends up in hell. But He does.
Also, you are making it sound like every unbeliever makes a conscious informed choice to turn away from God. Which is not true. Many unbelievers lack knowledge of Christianity, lack the resources to learn, etc
I don’t believe a benevolent deity would create a person, let him be in circumstances where he’d never make the decision to turn to Jesus because he was never aware of this decision’s importance, and subsequently suffer eternal damnation.

>>reads odyssey
>I like the author's sense of imagination and symbolism since we know none of those things existed

>>reads bible
>IT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS!!!

I don't think you understand much of Kant. His whole position was that "metaphysical" ideas about god, souls, all that shit was ideal, but not real. Because these things are not physically understandable, they exist as concepts without rational or empirical basis.

Basically he's saying it's impossible for us to experience anything "metaphysical" and thus any claims relating to those things are entirely speculative and unfalsifiable, which by definition makes them useless.

Because they're the chosen people of the OT god

Based
Is there anything he can't do?

This is your brain on Calvinism.

Nothing that you said follows from my post. I don't argue with Calvinists because I'm convinced they're the most deranged and sadistic of all men. I pity your souls and steer far away.

Again, just because those out of time know how everything within time plays out, it does not invalidate our free choices in the uncertain temporality.

But an average human can’t create a universe. That’s an idiotic comparison.

Lol I remember this
youtu.be/5St6vwWxny4

you know all of science user? you can imagine even something more rudimentary as an accurate simulation of a universe

The Marvel Cinematic Universe

>I don't argue with Calvinists
I'm not a Calvinist, because I'm not a Christian.

>Again, just because those out of time know how everything within time plays out, it does not invalidate our free choices in the uncertain temporality.
How do you know this? How do you demonstrate this claim?

>Many unbelievers lack knowledge of Christianity, lack the resources to learn
And they can convert upon their death. No problem here. For example, Zen in eastern religions is a glimpse of Logos. Upon death, all the ancient Chinese will see the Truth and if they're good men, they'll follow it as they've been striving towards righteousness during their lives even if not knowing the endpoint.

>But an average human can’t create a universe
How do you know this? How do you demonstrate this to be true?

Point is you only said you're calling them God because they created the universe, not because of anything else, therefore a human should be called God if they can create a universe, whether physically or virtually such that its inhabitants believe in a universe much like our own. Seems like a weak standard for Godhood but if that's how you want to play it then that's a fair line to draw

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>because those out of time know how everything within time plays out, it does not invalidate our free choices in the uncertain temporality.
It does because God himself made the choice to let the person going to hell be created.
He made the choice to create humanity as it is and let circumstances play out the way they did, fully knowing that the majority of us would be damned forever.
Imagine knowing with 100% certainty what direction an ant would walk in. Then placing the ants in such a way that some of these ants would walk into waters and die, and others would survive. Yes, the ants “chose” to die or live, but you are still ultimately responsible for their deaths.

>they can convert upon their death
Does all of humanity get offered this choice upon death?

>God himself made the choice to let the person going to hell be created
Imagine being this uneducated
j u s t

God didn't create Hell. Hell is a state of separation from God and after your time on earth runs out you have no more but one time to reunite with God. If you don't, your being will bathe in eternal suffering.

This is theology 101.

And some people like suffering and they can pick it if they want voluntarily

If somehow one day a human does create a universe with its own sentient individuals, then yes, he might as well be a God to them.

Literally called the final judgement lol

Everyone gets a chance. Being a Christian just makes it easier because you know better what to expect and how to grind your stats during life.

god is a nigger

>he doesn't exalt Ahura Mazda

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I don’t see how this contradicts what I said. Just replace all mentions of “hell” with “state of eternal separation” and it still stands.

It's not as autistic as Talmudism

Alpha and omega as fuck

based aryan horseman

If every human being, after death, gets a fully informed choice between eternal suffering and eternal happiness, then why would they not pick the latter?
This is a little bit like backing a man up against a cliff and asking him if he chooses to jump off isn’t it

Is Satan basically a nigger?

>God didn't create Hell.
>Hell is a state of separation from God

I'm confused though. On the one hand, God is all-powerful, can do whatever he wants, and can make the universe any way he chooses.

On the other hand, he set limits and rules about who can be near him and created the possibility of spending eternity away from him.

Couldn't he have just not done that? And if your answer involves anything other than "Yes, he could have an chose not to", then it means inherently God is not all-powerful as there are some rules he cannot break.

Because you hate this website, but you're still here.

It's like you never even thought about these things before. I can't spoonfeed you everything now.

God is not a meme skydaddy. He is a person and a thing, a concept you can't grasp. He is rules itself and goodness itself. Rules are good and God, being perfect, will never break his own rules. He can, but won't as that would make Him imperfect.

>It's like you never even thought about these things before. I can't spoonfeed you everything now.
I was raised Christian. I broke with the faith precisely because I thought about these things.
And you didn't answer my question.

But who decides what is good? Is what God does good because God does it? Or does God do it because it is good?

Amen, have a blessed Holy Weekend based brothers

I answered with the first sentence.

Then why did He set these rules in such a way that some people will spend eternity away from Him
However you frame it, it comes down to God deliberately choosing to exclude some people from his eternal goodness. Even if these people had "free will".

>Couldn't he have just not done that?
He could, but then it would be pointless.

The point of creation is to make a point. those that fail to grasp his point die in eternal suffering that's all.

You should also stop believing an all-powerful being is synonym with a morally good being. He is all powerful and goes beyond the concepts of good and evil.

I don't hate this website and I can choose to leave this website whenever I want. It's far from eternal suffering.

bout to settle in for a reflective good friday screening of the passion of the Christ. Happy Easter fellow brothers in Christ

>satan is actually the good guy, which is why he is also connected with christmas
you're thinking of santa

Jesus loves you.
Spend time with your family this weekend.

>You should also stop believing an all-powerful being is synonym with a morally good being. He is all powerful and goes beyond the concepts of good and evil.
Are you Christian? That doesn't sound like a very orthodox position

Yes.

I think you have the wrong idea. God isn't just some shitty hugbox where everyone is made comfortable. Yes, some people will mostly likely be excluded and that's fine. Fuck plebbitards and cucks and all those shitty people. And you too, your taste in movies is probably shit. God will give us all a chance, but we have to be men and take control of our actions to do the right thing. And that's fine.

He murdered a bunch of innocent Egyptian children after hardening the Pharao's heart

kino. i feel for the jaded anons who never felt the touch of god. i too was once an edgy libfag.

No, Satan/The Serpent was sent by the Monad to impart greater truths to humanity

>given free will
>controls all the variables
nice try god, I know this is you you jewish fuck.
Not only did you create a tree of wisdom you did not need because of your omnipotence but you then created a fallen angel (which is its own truckload of retarded) to tempt us and you knew exactly how it would pan out because you could obviously see the future with your ability to perfectly calculate all elements of the universe so basically you knew what would happen with your dumb experiment and decided your children and every child of your children going forward forever deserve an eternity of suffering.

You're no better than some creep that tortures cats, you just want to inflict suffering because it makes you feel powerful.
It's fucking pathetic.
>b-but I created everything s-so I get to decide
fine, but don't pretend you aren't a shitty sadistic god.

>God isn't just some shitty hugbox where everyone is made comfortable
If He's all-good and all-powerful, why would He not want as many people as possible (which should be all of them) to avoid damnation? Unless His "good" is utterly alien to us
>and that's fine. Fuck plebbitards and cucks and all those shitty people
Why is that fine? Why do you want people to suffer forever?

>He could, but then it would be pointless.
What would be pointless?

>The point of creation is to make a point
Says who? Also how do you know it's "creation"? How do you demonstrate that anything was "created"? You can assert it, but how do you demonstrate it?

>those that fail to grasp his point die in eternal suffering that's all.
But why did God choose that when he could have just as easily have not? He could have made it so people don't eternally suffer. So he chose it because he wanted people to suffer eternally for finite "transgressions".

>You should also stop believing an all-powerful being is synonym with a morally good being.
I'm not the one who made the conflation. I didn't say he was all-good. You did. You said it here >He is all powerful and goes beyond the concepts of good and evil.
I don't buy that. How do you demonstrate that there is something that can be ostensibly evil, but not actually evil because of some unknown magical context?

>Yes.

I thought I could have left it without pointing out that you're gonna meme answer. Can you try again without memeing?

>On April 4, 2009, William Lane Craig and Christopher Hitchens met at Biola University to debate the question of God’s existence. Craig is one of the world’s foremost Christian apologists. Hitchens, is a leading spokesman for the “new atheism” movement. In front of an overflow crowd and a global internet audience, they debated the origin and design of the universe, the implications of human morality, the deity of Jesus, and the validity of Christ’s resurrection. It was a compelling clash of worldviews and an examination of the major arguments for and against Christianity and atheism. Christopher Hitchens passed away from hospital acquired pneumonia in 2015, a complication arising from his diagnosis of esophageal cancer in 2011. Many scholars have since pointed to the 2009 William Lane Craig debate as the incident which sent Hitchens to an early grave.

youtube.com/watch?v=0tYm41hb48o

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If god wanted as many people as possible to be damned he wouldn't have created the concept of damnation.
He can see everything, he knows where we'll be in a million years, he knew back when he created the earth.
He's literally got the entire cosmos in his hands, in his very mind.
This isn't some Greek or Snownigger shit where there's loads of gods and they're basically just superheroes that fuck around, god is THE god.
The code for everything in the universe is all him.
Time, space, reality, all dimensions and spiritual planes are all him.

I'm sure it was a mistake, but please capitalize the G in God next time. Thanks!

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Sounds like a nice story. Can you prove it?

Imagine being a theologian or religious philosopher and, in the process of defending their faith, ending up with an abstract God completely divorced from what the uneducated mainstream religious masses believe in

People chose to suffer because they don't want to do the right thing. They won't forgive, they want to sin rather than live wholesome lives etc.
In the end, you have to respect their own choice. You're literally arguing for a totalitarian system where God performs lobotomy on those who commit wrong think.
>Unless His "good" is utterly alien to us
No, you're just a discord tranny.

I seriously can't believe how atheists pretend to be cool and masculine, but then they get pissy over the ideas of choice and consequences.

>be atheist
>eventually die
>"heh, checkmate atheists!"

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>If god wanted as many people as possible to be damned he wouldn't have created the concept of damnation.
I never said He wanted as many people as possible to be damned. I asked why shouldn't He want as many people as possible to NOT be damned.
>He can see everything, he knows where we'll be in a million years, he knew back when he created the earth.
Yeah, and I'm saying that if He knew where we'd be in a million years when He created the earth, then He's responsible for our damnation.

That's because people are retards who don't know their own religions. How is that surprising? It's the same with every hobby. People indulge into television or games or literature, but they don't get it. They watch marvel, play fortnite and read twilight.

So what? Truth stays the Truth. The best you can do for all these men is give them guidelines thru a Christian society. Which we have destroyed.
And this is why atheism and rationalism is failing. You can't educate the masses and without faith you can't do that. And atheistic faiths are terrible.

The argument of any theist is that the universe cannot have come from nothing.
For this to make sense you need to believe god is the original and thus is one with the universe.
Instead of the concept of time and space and matter springing forth from some paradox it's instead the creation of god who works beyond our understanding of the laws of the universe.
This form of god would have to have the upmost understanding and foresight, even omnipotence in order to create the way he did, thinking millions and billions of years in advance.
For god to evolve his creations with such perfect selection he'd have to be at the very least so hyper power in terms of intellect and processing that given all the base variables he can essentially see the future.
Being that he controls all base variables as the creator of the universe, that means he controls everything and everyone.

>People chose to suffer because they don't want to do the right thing. They won't forgive, they want to sin rather than live wholesome lives etc.
You're saying this as though the "right thing" is self-evident. Which it obviously isn't, looking at all the other religions in the world, all the people arguing over ethics and morality. They didn't "choose" to be eternally separated from God - or rather they did but they didn't know that was what they were doing. Would you blame a toddler for sticking a fork into a power socket and being electrocuted?
>You're literally arguing for a totalitarian system where God performs lobotomy on those who commit wrong think
No, I'm saying that God doesn't need to perform lobotomy and doesn't need to have anyone go to hell. He could have just not made it that way. He could have made the Truth more self-evident. He could have created the world so that almost everyone ends up in circumstances where they believe. He had the power to do so. He had the knowledge to do so. He just didn't want to.
People are damned because he wants them to be damned.

Based and Zealpilled

>Imagine being a theologian or religious philosopher and, in the process of defending their faith, ending up with an abstract God completely divorced from what the uneducated mainstream religious masses believe in
This is ironically how most apologists ends up.

The average Christian doesn't think about complex things like God's motivations, what really is good or evil, the idea of free-will or how it relates to the stories and parables. Someone says "God is good" and they clap and they believe it.

But when you have to start apoligetics, you have to defend things like slavery, human sacrifice, torment, removing free will, the problem of evil, and more metaphysical ideas like where does God come from and why, then you have to create ad-hoc explanations for these things that are off-script from normal religious teaching or thought, which means you have to end up creating your own answers and thus your own unique model of a god and it's religion.

Yeah okay mate but I was talking to people who believed in both free will and God's benevolence, not whatever the hell you are

But most of the truths are very self evident and have arisen in many societies with very few deviations.

Pagan gods were anticipations of God's greatness in nature. Zen is the anticipation of the wholesome harmony of Logos. etc.
It's everywhere and all human societies have seen a glimpse of it.

>The argument of any theist is that the universe cannot have come from nothing.
Prove it.

>For this to make sense you need to believe god is the original and thus is one with the universe.
Well to believe that, I'd have to be convinced of it, which has not happened yet.

>Instead of the concept of time and space and matter springing forth from some paradox it's instead the creation of god who works beyond our understanding of the laws of the universe.
"We don't understand it so magic did it."

>This form of god would have to have the upmost understanding and foresight, even omnipotence in order to create the way he did, thinking millions and billions of years in advance.
How do you know that? What evidence leads you to this conclusion, and how do you demonstrate that it is correct?

>For god to evolve his creations with such perfect selection he'd have to be at the very least so hyper power in terms of intellect and processing that given all the base variables he can essentially see the future.
I don't know what this means. Are you saying you believe a god both created the universe AND is personally guiding evolution? How do you demonstrate this? How do you establish that what you're attributing to a god aren't just things that happen naturally?

>Being that he controls all base variables as the creator of the universe, that means he controls everything and everyone.
How do you demonstrate this to be true?

Yeah, this.
I respect apologists, I really do. I'd take them over the slobbering New Atheists any day.
But when it comes down to it, their beliefs are almost as far from mainstream Christian belief as it is from straight-up gnosticism.

>But most of the truths are very self evident and have arisen in many societies with very few deviations.
Doesn't that point to the idea that some basic ideas of morality are an inherent product of a cooperative society and human intuition, reason, and empathy?

How do you discount that as a potential explanation, and instead jump to "an ominpotent, unknowable super-being created these concepts for us"? Doesn't that require a few more unfounded assumptions than the former?

"This is the evidence of one who saw it. Trustworthy evidence, and he knows what he saw". Literally said today during the gospel reading.

>But when you have to start apoligetics, you have to defend things like slavery, human sacrifice, torment, removing free will, the problem of evil, and more metaphysical ideas like where does God come from and why, then you have to create ad-hoc explanations for these things that are off-script from normal religious teaching or thought, which means you have to end up creating your own answers and thus your own unique model of a god and it's religion.

not true at all. this is an extremely ignorant statement that only reveals how little you have studied Christian apologetics.

>But most of the truths are very self evident and have arisen in many societies with very few deviations.
This is a massive oversimplification of religious belief. By that logic practically any religion could be the "true" one. May Christianity is but a reflection of the truth in Islam. Or Buddhism. Or whatever.
This in no way shows how the Truth of Christianity - why you should believe and follow its tenets or risk damnation - is self-evident. Because it isn't.

You've switched gears. This is a completely different argument than the one we're having and I'm not going to follow you there.

There are anticipations of God everywhere because both logic and feeling lead us towards the truth, even when it's not fully revealed. Obviously, I believe Christianity was the revelation of its final form.

>I don't know what this means. Are you saying you believe a god both created the universe AND is personally guiding evolution? How do you demonstrate this? How do you establish that what you're attributing to a god aren't just things that happen naturally?
I don't think he has ever intervened in nature because he already knew what would happen.
He governed exactly how matter was brought into the universe, what time is, all the raw inputs because he knew how they'd play out.
As all the stars and energy burst forth he'd be able to see the circulatory system of a bandicoot or the penis bone of a whale.
He'd already know how Earth is destroyed, he decides everything from instant 0.
>How do you demonstrate this to be true?
The only way any kind of higher conscious being that creates everything can exist is if they control everything and know everything.
An apathetic god that creates the universe without trying is really no different than the atheist belief of the creation of the universe.
If you think of god as being unconcerned with the development of the universe and only did so incidentally then you may as well think of it as a big bang and leave it at that.
Such a god would not be aware of spirituality or concepts of good and evil, we're just bacteria spewing from its existence.

>You've switched gears. This is a completely different argument than the one we're having and I'm not going to follow you there.
I haven't switched gears. My point was that the "right thing" - which you define as what would lead them to salvation - is not as self-evident as you think. You seem to have misinterpreted my point.
>There are anticipations of God everywhere because both logic and feeling lead us towards the truth, even when it's not fully revealed. Obviously, I believe Christianity was the revelation of its final form.
And there are plenty of people who would say that "truth" lies in other religions, so it seems where that logic and feeling is leading to is up to debate.

Is it? You think that the average Christian will have ever heard of counterfactuals in his life?

>not true at all.
Then how come there are so many different schools of apologetics all with different concepts of god and different answers for the same questions?

How come you aren't a presuppositionalist? Or are you?

>I don't think he has ever intervened in nature because he already knew what would happen.
>He governed exactly how matter was brought into the universe, what time is, all the raw inputs because he knew how they'd play out.

Ok, but is your follow-up to this that God doesn't specifically involve himself with anything that can be called "nature", but somehow the personal lives of individual humans are a different matter? Or do you believe in a completely non-inereventional diest god?

Also that would mean you don't believe Genesis or any of the other Bible stories about creation or anything from the Old Testament because clearly you are not a young-Earther which means none of those actually happened.

>The only way any kind of higher conscious being that creates everything can exist is if they control everything and know everything.
I don't know that this is true. How can you? You are stating knowledge but you have no way to demonstrate how you acquired this knowledge.

>An apathetic god that creates the universe without trying is really no different than the atheist belief of the creation of the universe.
I suppose? A universe with an uninvolved god and a universe without one seem like, at least conceptually, they would appear the same.

>If you think of god as being unconcerned with the development of the universe and only did so incidentally then you may as well think of it as a big bang and leave it at that.
But that sounds like what you're asserting? Or are you somehow not? I mean, you seem to believe the Big Bang happened, you just believe that there was a god behind it and I'm confused as to why.

>dude people disagree
Ok.

But you were asking about Christianity's stance on some things. We were not discussing moral relativism.

What if there is suffering in this life because of people's choices?

These kind of remarks are Jewish psyops at the grassroots level. It's the kind of shit you see with companies trying to advertise their films on here, they post with "hello, fellow goyim" style.

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Also if his assertion is that every Christian has grappled with the stories of human sacrifice and the God-given laws on slavery in the Bible, he's extremely mistaken. Fuck, most people don't even know about the mixed fabric laws.

So any explanations people come up with these are going to be personal and ad hoc, either they come up with a reason why those things can exist and not change their view of God and the Bible, or those things are false but somehow they maintain their faith that the Bible is true about everything else. But they have to come to one of those two positions, and how they get there is always going to be individual.

I'm not discussing moral relativism. I don't know why you think I am. Let me walk you through what I was saying
You said:
>People chose to suffer because they don't want to do the right thing. They won't forgive, they want to sin rather than live wholesome lives etc.
I said
>You're saying this as though the "right thing" is self-evident. Which it obviously isn't, looking at all the other religions in the world, all the people arguing over ethics and morality.
You said
>But most of the truths are very self evident and have arisen in many societies with very few deviations.
I contested that these truths are self-evident. That's how we got here.

>Then how come there are so many different schools of apologetics all with different concepts of god and different answers for the same questions?

does the existence of multiple wrong theories preclude the existence of one that is correct? of course not. well-meaning christians get many things wrong, and there are simply many things Scripture doesn't answer about God.

I think most Christians ignore the old testament outright. The spiteful, petty god of the OT seems very different than the cool, understanding father figure of the NT. It's the Jewish god vs the Christian god. I don't know why they even included most of the OT when putting the bible together.

>Also if his assertion is that every Christian has grappled with the stories of human sacrifice and the God-given laws on slavery in the Bible, he's extremely mistaken.

didn't say that at all but nice strawman. Salvation isn't dependent on having studied the Bible like a seminary graduate. It's believing Jesus Christ is Lord and repenting of your sins, and being born again.

Yes, and to the majority of Christians out there, that's all their faith is. Believing in Christ the Lord, repenting, being born again in God's love.
All the apologetics, all the philosophical acrobatics, that would be alien to them.

What seems spiteful and petty to you, a fallen human being mired in sin, judging according to human moral relativistic standards, is actually the only righteous response from a God who is infinitely just and unwilling to let the slightest amount of wickedness go unpunished. God would not be just if he was "OK" with wickedness, fortunately for you he was willing to die in your place and attributes Christ's perfect righteousness to you, if you accept it

>“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

>Also that would mean you don't believe Genesis or any of the other Bible stories about creation or anything from the Old Testament because clearly you are not a young-Earther which means none of those actually happened.
I don't believe anything written in the bible.
The bible was written by men, not divine beings.
>I don't know that this is true. How can you? You are stating knowledge but you have no way to demonstrate how you acquired this knowledge.
If you intend to create something the only way anything unintentional can happen is if elements you didn't consider intrude on it.
There are no outer elements when you create the universe time and space.
So the only way God could be surprised by anything is if he wasn't all powerful, that he was just one of those gods from shitty religions where there's 20 of them and they just drink and fuck all the time.
>you just believe that there was a god behind it and I'm confused as to why.
The difference is whether you believe the big bang just happened, whether it was the fart of some deity that didn't understand what it was doing or if it was a god that created literally everything.
I assert since this event creates the relativism of everything afterwards that it must mean that god teed-off the chain of events that lead to the result he wanted.
Choice is impossible with an all-powerful god.
Everything is a consequence of his creation of the universe.
That doesn't mean we should give up and not judge the wicked.
But we should probably make peace with the fact that all of existence probably doesn't mean that much to god, we may even have a higher purpose beyond heaven or earth.

>does the existence of multiple wrong theories preclude the existence of one that is correct?
Of course not. But here's the challenge: How do we figure out which one is correct? It's possible that they can all be wrong, but you have to demonstrate a method of identifying how one can be established to be right.

>I think most Christians ignore the old testament outright
Except the 10 Commandments I guess. They included the Old Testament because that's where all the prophecies they wanted to claim came true were found.

>Salvation isn't dependent on having studied the Bible like a seminary graduate.
How do you know that?

>It's believing Jesus Christ is Lord and repenting of your sins, and being born again.
How do you demonstrate that? Also why have a Bible at all then?

But more importantly, I agree that this is what most Christians do. I'm specifically saying, something you said was false BTW, that anyone who attempts to go about apologizing or justifying things in their Bible will inherently create ad-hoc or personal interpretations of things that make sense to them, thus creating their own idea of who God is and what he wants, what is true and what is parable, and what they can eject or ignore and still remain "Christian".

>from a God who is infinitely just and unwilling to let the slightest amount of wickedness go unpunished.

Wasn't there that time that God told Moses to kill a whole city of people and then give 1000 of the virgin women (the rest of the women they took for themselves) to God as a sacrifice?

Or that time he told Jephthah to sacrifice the first thing that came out of his house, which was his daughter?

Who was he punishing there?

so what? are you required to have mastered the highest level of philosophical thought before professing belief in something? Do the majority of atheists attain an expert level understanding of particle physics before claiming the universe is uncaused? Or do they just trust that smarter people than them have figured it out and are satisfied to have a more general understanding?

What every Christian does know is that Christ changed their lives in a real, tangible, personal way. You don't have to have spent years in a monastery studying aquinas to know God is real.

>Who was he punishing there?
Thots
God is based as fuck

>I don't believe anything written in the bible.
>The bible was written by men, not divine beings.
That's...an odd Christian position...

>here are no outer elements when you create the universe time and space.
How do you know that?

>So the only way God could be surprised by anything is if he wasn't all powerful, that he was just one of those gods from shitty religions where there's 20 of them and they just drink and fuck all the time.
How do you know he's not? If you're not going off the Bible, how did you establish that there's only one single all-powerful deity, and not a team of them working on the same project?

>it must mean that god teed-off the chain of events that lead to the result he wanted.
I get that you believe this, but you haven't told me why you're convinced it's true.

>prophecies they wanted to claim came true
Except they literally did come true you spaz.
You are doing a good job brother. Thank you for your thoughtful and knowledgeable posts.
>t. Catholic

I'm not saying that only apologists and theologians are "real Christians". I'm saying they're a world away from the vast majority of these "real Christians", so much so that it's almost like completely different faiths when it comes to the way they think about God.