Could Luke have defeated Sheev instead of throwing away his lightsaber?

Luke tapped dark side energy to beat Vader. He was on the edge of turning into a sith, thats why he throw away his lightsaber. Turning on the lightsaber to fight Palpatine = tutning into a shit = Emperor victory.

if you kill your enemy, they win - old Jedi saying

Well jedi and sith lightsabers are different though

heh, wookiepedia to the rescue.

shit like this makes me upset that disney eschewed the entire eu. It's like come on, stuff like this would have been fascinating to explore in the fucking movies.

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He defeated him By trowing his lightsaber you dense shit

of course I forgot the fucking link

starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sith_sword

they're look and function the same way and have the same name. in what relevant way are they different?

Pretty sure thats not true and it was specifically mentioned somewhere that since Palpatine was already God Emperor of the Galaxy at that point he considered saber fighting to be beneath him. He had Vader for that shit anyway and there were no threats where he'd ever need to use it anyway since he pretty much just ran shit from the shadows in his fortified bases with tons of security, defenses. And even still he'd have Dark Side powers like Force lightning. Just no need

>The weapon's magnetic properties, combined with its attraction to the dark side of the Force, caused it to react unusually to discharges of Force lightning; The blade would attract and absorb the energy, storing it like an electric capacitor until the blade made contact with a substantial physical object, whereupon the amplified electrical energy was discharged— to an extremely devastating effect.[source?]

imagine seeing a jedi get absolutely blown the fuck out by this on screen.

Vader was the face of the Empire and pretty much the only one who could even be a threat to him. And Vaders suit was designed to basically malfunction and magnify the effects of Force Lightning which Palpatine put in in case he should ever turn on him. thats why Vader ended up dying.

I'm strictly going off of information stated in the OT with zero outside sources at the time the movies released. there was no indication that the emperor used lightsabers, and calling it a "jedi weapon" seemed to imply it was an exclusive weapon to them only. hell we didn't even know the emperor was a sith, only as he's never referred to as that. all we know about him is that he's a creepy old space wizard who uses the dark side.

Sheev nor Yoda should've been given lightsabers in the PT and their fighting capabilities should've been wrecking everyone's shit with sheer Force ability.

This. Taking in just the OT, the Emperor is an evil space wizard and Vader is just a Jedi turned bad.

What a brainlet.
Let me tell you how to win:
By saving the people you love. Not by fighting the people you hate.
THAT'S how we're gonna win.

Smooch.

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yeah, just pick him up and toss him down an elevator shaft.

Naw Luke would've lost and sheev was counting on that. He wanted Vader dead and he wanted Luke to be his new apprentice and for Luke to be his underling then it's pretty reasonable to assume sheev could've easily defeated him and sheev knew that.

Sheev only ever fought with a lightsaber as a joke. He was mocking Yoda and the Jedi in general. It was clearly something he disdained and showed much greater power with his actual techniques later.

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Reminder that Sheev dual-wielding against Maul and his brother is canon

Sheev and Yoda should never have brought out their sabers.

Vader fought like one because his cybernetics held him back while Palpatine withheld knowledge from him.
Palpatine was like a level 9000 Wizard of the Darkside and his potential limit was maybe 15,000. Darth Vader was like a level 1500 Dark Wizard but because of his physical and psychological injuries he would never be able to get to even 5000. If Vader didnt lose to Kenobi he could have had unlimited force potential. he knew enough shit and was capable enough to literally fuck up anyone in the galaxy except Palpatine. Palpatine either felt afraid of losing his power or thought Vader was unworthy as a successor so he used him as best he could.

Luke is eseentially at Vaders level in return of the Jedi and has the potential to surpass Palpatine. Thats why Palpatine wants him to turn because id imagine Palpatine is concerned with discovering the mysteries of the force and knows Vader is too damaged to help him because he needs an apprentice that is equal or able to equal and surpass him.

Its sort of like Palpatine is a master carpenter/architect and the entire galaxy is filled with drooling subhuman squid people. In order to advance the theory of structure and build something really impressive he needs someone to work with both physically and mentally capable. Vader is like a really smart guy but hes been traumatized and he only had one arm. Hes useful for smaller projects and for ensuring the braindead retards dont smash up Palpatine's house/school.
Luke is like Vaders prodigal son who isnt traumatized and isnt a thumbless idiot. Hes perfect as long as he subscribes to Palpatines school of thought towards architecture. The thing is that Luke would rather go live in a tree and help plants grow into the structures that are needed rather than to chop one down and force it into being. Luke sees purpose as something naturally expressed as a will of the universe while Palpatine thinks the universe should bend to his will and that purpose is gaining power.

Why don't force users all just choke eachother? Seems effective no?

It's kinda silly, in the fight Sheev kept constantly fucking them up with the force, but would deliberately prolong the fight just so he could keep fighting them with the lightsabers the two brothers were so attached to. Sword fighting is kind of a joke when you can lift tons of material at will, shoot lightning, etc.

They have never once demonstrated why that's not possible.

AOTC, Dooku uses lightning against Obiwan and he effortlessly blocks it with his lightsaber.

In ROTS, Dooku chokes Obiwan and tosses him across the room. Super effective.

Later in the film, there's one scene where Anakin and Obiwan both try to force push each other and it sort of cancels out. That's the ONE time in the franchise that demonstrated why 2 force users maybe won't use their powers all the time.

TFA. Kylo Ren blows the shit out of Rey by tossing her against a tree. He immediately forgets he can do this to her at any time.
Admittedly, he fought Finn because he was just venting anger.

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wish more people would understand this, the prequels were very revisionist

>Vader didnt lose to Kenobi he could have had unlimited force potential. he knew enough shit and was capable enough to literally fuck up anyone in the galaxy except Palpatine
Except Lucas himself said that if Vader didn't get fucked up he'd become twice as powerful as the Emperor and that in his actual armoured state he's at about 80% of the Emperor's power.

Yeah, I always thought it was established that a force user could only manipulate another with the force if they get them off guard.

It's pretty effective, but some of them use force absorption too quickly for you to do any real damage.
If there's lava nearby you can quickly use force choke to grab them and chuck them in, in the instant they're asborbing the choke they're already hurdling towards the lava or are hovering above it.

t. jedi academy pro

That reminds me of this
youtube.com/watch?v=c2ob1eFi0hw

Been years since I played but from memory in The Force Unleashed if you attempt a force ability on another Jedi/Sith who sees it coming they literally just deflect it.

So fucking based

Yeah, I don't think anyone besides those game developers believed Vader would have taken over immediately had he won at Mustafar.

Well he did train Maul exclusively in physical sith training with little to no actual power based training. Maul thought him and his brother both being physically a match for Sideious would be enough and Palpatine showed Maul just exactly that he was trained to be used as a tool and nothing else.

I think that would have got across better if Palpatine lost (or feigned to lose) the saber fight only to fuck them over completely with his far superior force abilities.

I wonder why Sheev wanted Vader in the first place then if he was just going to easily pass him in power and kill him.

It's possible at one point I guess, but I get the impression that Sheev didn't really subscribe to the old Sith ways of inevitibly being usurped by a stronger apprentice thus ensuring the Sith go stronger. He was already the one who saw their thousand year plan of ruling the galaxy come to fruition happen. He intended on living forever. Vader getting fucked up and having that suit kind of seems like a saving grace.

Exactly everything written on Wookiepedia is fucking retarded.

It seems like he assumed he'd be able to manipulate Anakin forever which to be fair was the case until Luke came into play.

It possible, not likely but possible.

One thing especially early on in the movies and in expanded canon established is Palpatine is esentially looking to find an apprentice to equal or surpass him. Together they could further the Sith cause more than anyone else in 1000s of years and hopefully replace him on day.

Maul was a trial run at training an apprentice, someone to physically intimidate and kill in the shadows at his order but never skilled enough to defeat him.
Dooku was just a perfect pawn to use his scheme to defeat the jedi. Former jedi master to be the face of the enemy, needed minimal training, but already at his peak and never getting further. Also Dooku was just foolish enough to not think Sideious would discard him when his usefulness ran out

It's a fair point. He definitely acknowledges to Yoda that Vader would become more powerful than the both of them.
The Sith Rule of Two is difficult because it's hard to think that any Sith would want to actively try to find someone to usurp them. Maybe Sheev was a traditionalist.

Wouldnt be surprised if hes incapable of just completely dominating opponents when hes actually forced to fight. Majority of the time he plays the part of weak old man but when hes backed into a corner with no way out but through em he goes full blast.

Vader was not on par with Sidious at the time of Mustafar. Sure he might have attempted it but Sheev wouldn't have fallen for a bitch move like in that video.

It makes sense that if Sheev is so dominant in other areas of the Force that his saber skills may be lacking compared to other excellent duelists like Windu / Maul etc

Sheev was all he had at that point.

Sheev trying to turn Luke was such a shit attempt compared to Anakin, which was completely understandable. Not only did he say he'd save his wife(which the Jedi were against in the first place), but Anakin hated Samuel L. Jackson from day 1 while Sheev was basically like his father or grandfather(Obi-wan more of an older brother). No surprise in that decisive moment he'd go with Sheev lol, that nigger was a straight dick his entire life while he felt more comfortable talking to Sheev about personal shit than probably anyone other than Padme. Compare that to Luke where Sheev basically just tries to piss him off. So I guess suddenly if Luke reaches a boiling point of hate he's just going to kneel down and join him rather than fight him to the death? Lol

I dont think he's lacking, but he is old (and after getting scarred by his own lightning and having more years pass, his form would atrophy), and Force Augmentation on his body can only carry him so far for so long. That said, with how powerful he is in the Dark Side of the Force, his level of augmentation with it, while brief, could still keep him as more than a match for the likes of Maul.

I always liked the idea that Palpatine and Yoda were wizards and Obi Wan and Vader were knights. They could all use the force but specialized in different areas. Just at this fucking guy that's an evil wizard. He has no business holding a sword

>Sheev was all he had at that point

He still had Padme before Mustafar and had he won there she was taken into the ship by C-3PO. I'm sure she'd want no part of the shit Anakin was in but she's still there all the same. Whether she got the kids or not is another question

Sheev mastered all forms of lightsaber combat as well. He literally fucked up those 3 Jedi Masters in 2 seconds that went with Mace to arrest him. And made Maul and his brother look like retards when he fought them.

the only one comparable to him is probably Mace Dindu(or Luke in some of the expanded universe shit)., but the consensus seems to be that Sheev threw that fight to look weaker and get Anakin to help him to the point where he wouldn't be able to go back.

If it makes you feel better, force-imbued blades are canon again because of the Secrets of the Empire VR experience and the same one in Secrets of the Empire will apparently have a big role in the Vader: Immortal VR games.

I guess you could read into what Dooku says during AotC where he seems evenly matched with Yoda regarding Force ability and declares the only way they'll break the stalemate is via lightsaber so maybe Force fights really are mostly a battle of attrition. Although Yoda and Sheev fight in reverse to this (sabers then force) so fuck knows.

Imagine if Sheev instead just fired off the greatest barrage of lightning the series had seen to establish himself as fuck strong with only Windu surviving as opposed to playing spin 2 win.

Probably not. It's clear that by the time of RotJ Luke is supposed to be the bee's knees, though.
At one time Lucas didn't think Yoda was a fighter of any kind:
>Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?
>Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
>Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.
>Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.
>Kasdan: You mean he wouldn’t be any good in a fight?
>Lucas: Not with Darth Vader he wouldn’t.
>Kasdan: I accept it, but I don’t like it.
I actually don't mind Yoda fighting, but I don't think he should have been flipping around with a lightsaber. Same for Palpatine.

Is it possible to do a Sheev playthrough on Kotor2?

I've never really bought the idea that Vader being crippled physically would hurt his Force potential. Why would that have anything to do with it? If anything makes sense it's the idea that being mentally scarred and psychologically off-kilter hurt his potential with the Force, not simply being tag-teamed by ol' Ben and some lava.

I remember being in the threater when Yoda and Palpatine drew their sabers for the first time and you bet I was one of those faggots hyped as fuck. "Oh shit"

The Palpatine-Yoda fight was fantastic, no way the series is better without it. Sure they could have just thrown lightning and force pushes around I guess, but the combination of both was the right choice IMO.

As a kid I always imagined Yoda as a tactician/general, I don't think I ever conceived of him zipping around like AOTC. I may just lack imagination

Same. They shouldn't have had Yoda fight Dooku in AOTC, the first and last time he draws his sword should have been ROTS

Something to do with less of a connection to the living force or something. Maybe being a cripple effects it in other ways - seems most force users use their hands as catalysts when directing their abilities and he has none so finds it harder to concentrate.

>when Yoda and Palpatine drew their sabers for the first time and you bet I was one of those faggots hyped as fuck. "Oh shit"
I was too, but looking back I think it's pretty tasteless and boring.

>and it was specifically mentioned somewhere
Anything not explicitly stated in the OT is literally just autistic fan fiction.

Because some of them like that, and it gets awkward fighting someone with a hard-on.

No because Yoda didn't teach him how to block lightning despite knowing it was a thing Luke would come up against

No. Back then, the Emperor was so powerful that no Jedi could defeat him.

>And Vaders suit was designed to basically malfunction and magnify the effects of Force Lightning which Palpatine put in in case he should ever turn on him.
Sounds like what someone in charge of a novelisation would write.

More simply, Vader's suit functions on electricity, so bolts would automatically make it malfunction, no need for a conspiracy here.

I assume they generate some Force field that you can't just penetrate without effort. I think some scenes demonstrate that; it's why they don't just throw each other away every occasion.

The force flows through living matter, So Anakin getting most of his body chopped up and toasted inside out depleted his connection severely.

I find that pretty stupid, honestly. The Force was always depicted as a spiritual and psychological thing.

I second this sentiment.

Agreed

Fewer body parts equals a smaller midochlorian count thus less power

Midichlorians indicate strength in the force theyre not the cause of force powers though. Otherwise yoda would be weak af since hes like 50lbs and all a force user wouod have to do to get super powerful would be to get really fat.

reminder that based sheev is back to save us from the women, chinks and niggers that ruined star wars.

It was a bit boring because you know that they both live and neither of them will even get maimed. Problem with all prequels. You know who lives.

When I saw AOTC most of the audience started laughing during Yoda vs Dooku fight. I was irritated by them but mostly I was irritated by the fact that it was actually hilarious.

I feel really bad for Darth Vader and I think his story at the end of RotS is cruel

How? He was about to get melted if Vader hadnt saved him

Obviously not in the films, but the Jedi Knight games had it so that using force choke left you vulnerable to other force powers, so pull and push were very effective responses to someone trying to choke you.

No. Luke already knew that no ones ever really gone, so there wouldn't be any point in doing so

youtube.com/watch?v=FVzc20Bm8Xo

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>TFA. Kylo Ren blows the shit out of Rey by tossing her against a tree. He immediately forgets he can do this to her at any time.
Or when he fucking paralyzes her and then puts her to sleep.

This.

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Ow

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This is spot on. The original conception seemed to be that the Jedi were some religious paladin types who fought with laser swords, but overall they were lawfully good warriors. They had some communion with the force, but it was about ideals and minor boosts from force use. The Dark Side was about power and manipulating the force to gain more power. What the fuck do you need a laser sword for when you can throw people around and kill them with your mind. Even Yoda doesn't harp on about sword techniques but the spirituality of the force.

By the time the PT was being developed Lucas didn't really understand his own iconography.
>All the Jedi now wear the robes of Tatooine inhabitants
>Everyone has light sabers
I kinda wanted that the Jedi had armour and looked more like knights/samurai. Instead they are all space Shaolin monks with laser swords. They should have been more emphasis on their militarism rather than over emphasis on spirituality. It's no bother now as it is what it is now in the EU and the films.

>YYYAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGG

>Yoked-a

>his own iconography.
>his own
Lucas is the Steve Jobs of Star Wars. The Dagobah part was written almost exclusively by another guy.

I like how this question portrays how the meaning of Star Wars was completely lost in the culture shift. Now everyone wants to fight and be stronger than the other guy, and these are the big questions.

No one remembers that the One Ring was destroyed when Gollum (another bad guy) bit it off Frodo's finger and accidentally fell into the volcano.
No one remembers Vader (another bad guy) killed Palpatine when he saw his son being tortured.

Now everyone frowns at the idea of evil being destined to self-destruct by its own nature, and good not having to actually "fight it." Because everyone in this culture is terrified of threats they fear will destroy them if they don't fight.

And yet these were the "mortals" of these stories at the time. The world has gone insane from fear.

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>B-but my epic battles
All cinematic portrayals of good vs evil in the modern age are just climax episodes of DBZ

youtube.com/watch?v=6MObSV4te7I

That entire fight was incredible. Sheev's laughing his ass off the entire time. He intentionally prolongs the fights and sets them up to think they have some kind of advantage and then absolutely shreks them. Sheev's the personification of schadenfreude and I'm convinced he only did it to watch Maul despair.
Really, watch any fight where Sheev uses a lightsaber. They're a toy to him. He's above that noise. He only does it because he enjoys screwing with his victims and making them suffer.

>join sheev
>rule galaxy with senate funnyman and cyborg dad
>enjoy bantz with all the imperial officers
>prevent the awful sequel trilogy from happening
Honestly a better outcome. And most of the republic got star killer'd anyway in the force awakens so their rebellion was all for nothing anyway

It's all about spectacle, spectacle, spectacle

like it doesn't affect them at all or they wave themselves out of it immediately?
Sounds like it works on the assumption that it's on all the time, which is fairly reasonable I think.

Shame the lightsaber combat wasn't as organic in unleashed.