Is Leto to blame? Or is it the underwhelming cut? He said there was material for an entire joker movie already filmed...

The movie looked fucking stupid. End of story.

I think most people are too autistic at this point to take much a deviation of the norm without throwing a fit.

Leto played his version of the joker perfectly just like everyone before him who played their own versions. The problem is REEEEEE IT"S NOT WHAT I'M USED TO REEEEEE

Leto seems to be in love with his own image and tries too hard

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this
why do you think all that material was cut? Leto's joker was shit on every level

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Just because something is different does not mean it's good
What is he playing? A guy who gets the word "damaged" tattooed on his forehead like a tweenager's deviantart OC?

IT NOT MY JOKER FROM CARTOON REEEE I HATE IT I DONT UNDERSTAND IT I HATE IT REEEE *rocks back and forth in chair*

This post smells like Monster energy drink breath

this pretty much, anyone defending him is a contrarian

you're embarrassing yourself dude, can you tell me what's good about Leto's joker?

Suicide Squad was a worse movie than Leto was a Joker. Mind you, I don't think he was great either with some of his characterization and delivery, but I kinda liked what he was going for with the pseudo-shamanistic cartel aesthetic, the "religion" of his madness, and the ceremonial chemical vat. It deserved a better chance in a solo Batman movie that focused on him and his behavior as the antagonist. Cinematic Jokers have always had a lot of weight behind them with Nicholson and Ledger headlining movies, but he was such an afterthought in Suicide Squad. He seemed a whole lot more tryhard than otherwise when he was trying so hard for such little screentime. Honestly, who the fuck asked for him to get the "Spider-Man in Civil War" treatment? Leto certainly didn't. He clearly wanted to be the foil to Batfleck at some point, but if that was ever in the pipeline, it sure as shit isn't now. It felt like there was a whole lot of lore that fans speculated heavily over like the "joke's on your" Robin suit and possibility of Leto Joker actually being a former Robin, but there'll never be a payoff for it. Not to mention the disappointment that the much-speculated Willem Dafoe DC casting was anything other than the real deal OG Joker that corrupted Leto's character. So much missed opportunity with DC.

>oops
WE

it was far too kino for the pleb masses.

its character building. he isnt the real joker. he's insane jason todd who became the joker after he was thrown in the vat by the real joker, who is dead by the time the JL movie came out.

Imagine unironically beliving this

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This, leto is a try hard who isn't as talented and intelligent as he thinks he is

>honka honka
>honk honk
>both are clowns
Extravagant

it could be great for all we know.

could Jodorowsky make a kino joker movie?

God i hate leto, he really fucking downgrades everything he's in for me

>mails cast used condoms
CUT MY LIFE INTO PIECES

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>could Jodorowsky make a kino joker movie?
Like La cravate?

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I would be too if I fucked Angie Varona

nevertheless, his joker was unironically awful and everyone knows it
the worst depiction of the character so far and an embarrassing performance all around

This is the only right answer

For a while, I liked the rumor that Leto Joker was a former Robin that was turned evil by the original Joker, but now that DC is dropping the whole Universe, the whole thing is moot.

He should've been a 1920s style gangster with Tommy guns desu

that was way better than the holy mountain was.

its very jokerish. I have thought for years a pulp fiction anthology/unreliable narrator would be best for a joker movie. have the whole thing pieced together from the end backwards, with the cops having their version, the jokers and his goons each having a fractured fairy tales version of events, harleys version of events, and then there is The Batman's which is as close to the real story as they were going to get in world.

that would have been a good angle for them to try. but its far to experimental for the normies.

>is Leto to blame
your damn right he is he went to far

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What

And then after all this madness, Kate became the joker.

It's not THAT complicated. They just do Jason Todd except instead of being resurrected into Red Hood, he's brainwashed into being Joker Jr or whatever.

I know WB's said they're not focusing on DC being a connected universe anymore, but I'm sure they're keeping DCEU in their back pocket in case Joker (with Phoenix) is a hit and they can somehow bring back Affleck and Cavill for another Justice League.

Hi Jared

Affleck is done. Cavill most likely also. If they spin-off the Phoenix Joker it’ll be a with a new Batman and they won’t try any of that DCEU shit for at least another 10 years.

Except of course that Phoenix Joker is one and done so all they could do is set it in that same universe, but it wouldn’t be the same Joker.

most normie have no clue who jason todd is, and having that slowly building up the story with some out of the way, and rather bizzare joker movie done in a insane fear and loathing way would and could work well.

This, leto's joker was based. There's a reason why this board can't relate to him

>realistic
that fucking word again

12 year old opinion

I like to think of Leto as Tom Cruise but instead of crazy good he is crazy bad

*tips fedorina*

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Too hilarious to be true

correct

I'm not sure what anyone could have done to perform his scenes better. They were really oddly written.

Of those few that have played the joker it felt like they weren't really changing up their usual style of acting much. Leto on the other hand seemed to be playing what was written which was just really really fucking bad.

It was a lot of mistakes made with Suicide Squad where they went with the big name Will Smith for a relatively smaller role that didn't need it, then got someone entirely wrong for an iconic character.

It was always going to be edge mania, but apparently a lot was cut, and the edit was stupid anyway. I'm sure with the right edit they could have turned it into more of a tim burton-esque film -- meaning it's dark and weird but doesn't veer into hot topic territory (sometimes burton fucks this up though). Leto is probably still pissed at how much they cut

he would of been fine if it wasnt the horrible costume design

Aye. There were some great elements before the justice league whedon thing.

It really was bad though. I mean, the whole movie. Will Smith and the Mexican dude were like the only redeeming qualities

I liked Wallace.

The idea and image was cool but the way he played it was just too try hard. You can’t even do an exaggerated parody of his take on the character to make fun of him because the way he actually played it is way worse than anything you could do to try to emphasize how bad it was.

I can’t 100% blame him, it’s a huge roll to fill that seems like it’ll be fun, but then when you’re actually there in makeup it’s gotta hit you and make it super hard to do what you gotta do to find your voice and make the magic happen. The worst thing is there wasn’t some editor or competent director to step in and tell him when it was shit and help to steer him in the right direction, that’s what was needed above all else.

no shit idiot

leto is a shit actor and shit singer i dont care to answer your question beyond that

Leto sucks in general but this fuck up was not on him. The whole movie was a clusterfuck.

What were they used for though?

You know what's up. He was like a living comic book character.

The Leto Joker was like something out of a 13 year old boys fantasies about being 2edgy4u. It was a huge fucking disappointment for anyone who is out of their edgelord phase.

Didn't help that he acted like a 13 year old edgelord on set the entire time either. What a massive faggot that guy is.

A friend of mine got a joker tattoo a few days before the whole DAMAGED pic dropped. I've never seen more instant regret for a tat. Usually it takes a few years.

>getting a tattoo related to pop culture

This post is the truth of it.

It always made more sense that it was Jason Todd (location of his J tattoo and the Arkhamverse Todd; bullet scars match the location of the Robin suit, poetry with Beyond's Time Drake being mindfucked into a Joker clone, and it also explains why Batmanslaughter didn't kill him) and that the real, older, Joker was either out there still or died the night he 'killed' Jason'. But yeah. I agree with most of your post.

Let is edgy shit tier and would have made an unwatchable movie.
He is literally cringe for cringe people. Which is saying a lot for joker fans

The fault goes to whoever made him a cuck clown gangster

I've got a tattoo of Pyramid Head from Silent Hill covering my entire calve and I will fucking fight you I love it so much.

EVERYTHING THAT IS EVER PRODUCED IS GOOD AND MUST BE FREE OF CRITICISM

SH2 is a patrician game so you can have a pass

you sound like somebody that enjoys the taste of semen

you're the guy who gets mad when someone complains about a fantasy world having no internal consistency because dragons aren't reel dude

Can we rank cine Jokers in terms of legit criminal operator capability and dominant presence?

1. Nicholson
2. Leto
3. Phoenix
4. Ledger
5. Romero

The thing about Nicholson is that he's an operator but his high intelligence does mean he's less "insane" than other Jokers, which is more frightening and disturbing. He's able to compartmentalise his insanity a bit, but his insanity is then expressed through his successful actions and public gallantry, which is what The Joker is really about.

Ledger as is becoming a common criticism doesn't convincingly hold command in a crew of brutish excons. He's too much like an edgy serial killer, which is okay by itself, but not when he's supposed to run a Gotham wide syndicate.

Leto's aesthetic will never be strongly defended but it does seem like a psycho boss would could arise in America in 15 years, once the cartels permanently solidify holds in the US or a North American Union. Tbqh I think Leto is underrated in the role.

Phoenix too seems more believable right now then Ledger, his danger factor evokes many criminal trajectories, like an unhinged Whitey Bulger or Dillinger. Phoenix has very limited range as an actor but no one argues his inner darkness and bad attitude doesn't fit this part.

0. Hamill

That arguably could have been the studio planting viral bullshit and it clearly worked. Set pranks are normal on any set. Clooney once bought Danny DeVito an ostrage in a dress and wig and put it in his trailer. Val Kilmer likes to put goldfists in costars sinks.

His joker was shit and Phoenix is a much better actor. Imagine being the only Joker more people hate than like

Something being realistic doesn't make it good.

Leto = Dylan Roof
Ledger = Aurora Orange Hair fag
Phoenix = Columbine
Nicholson = Christchurch
Romero = Adam Lanza
yes?

Kek. 70% this

he's hot eye candy and has a cool appeal to millennials but his acting wasn't anything commendable. a lot of scenes he seemed on the precipice of making something rather faithful to the joker seen in the adventures of batman cartoons but the direction of david ayer forced him into this flashy gangster joker persona looking guy rather than a classy mischevious comic with smart wit and philosophical reasoning rather than just killing because i'm DAMAGED and don't give a fuck.

Leto is underrated because he was placed with a shitty director that only knows how to make action films with no substance.

>Not to mention the disappointment that the much-speculated Willem Dafoe DC casting was anything other than the real deal OG Joker that corrupted Leto's Robin character. So much missed opportunity with DC.
Such based. Damn.

Fuck that man. The Outsider was kino. Name a better gajin yakuza flick. And no Black Rain isn't better. Just had better poster art.

I still can't believe DC thought Leto's Joker was going to be some hit that would last multiple movies. What were they smoooooking? Cigarettes?

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This.

it was the writing and direction. casting leto as joker and then NOT having him be a previous robin having been turnt the fuck out by the real joker (who should have been willem defoe), introducing him in a movie that he didn't even fucking belong in, filming a bunch of extra shit you didn't even bother using, etc. etc. etc.

the shit wrote itself and they went against the grain every step of the way.

>damaged

It wasn't cool.

His laugh was shit
His acting was shit
His design (the tattoos and clothes) were shit

Everything was shit. He was the worst Joker.

>Except of course that Phoenix Joker is one and done
You really believe that? It's s marketing ploy. Todd Phillips is a greedy nose and loves sequels. Joker will probably make $180 million or more in US. $500 ww. Even if Phoenix dies in it, they can make it a prank to sequelize. But Matt Reeves' Batman is set in a different era from Phillips, so DC would just create a parallel universe that Phillips oversees. That is DC's bread and butter now: multi-verses that go R rated hardcore and PG13 fantasy like Aquaman and PG family like Shazam. That's an assault on Marvel's cool cred from all angles.

Expect a sequel to Joker announced before December. No way it doesn't overperform, tracking is skyrocketing.

They dated

The tattoos made no fucking since. Those Hahahaha's and the Joker smile tat on the hand and to top it off the "damaged" forehead tattoo? It was the cringiest shit i've ever seen.

Joker doesn't have philosophical reasoning you edgelord he's just a crazy guy that likes to fuck with Batman by causing chaos

MOM'S GONNA FREAK

nice.
is she really a working girl like that?

>Leto is probably still pissed at how much they cut
No shit. Leto is furious. Didn't he have a contract for multiple Joker films? That's why he signed to be Marvel/Sony's Morbius. He got fucked nearly as bad as Brandon Routh.

It wasn't letos fault. The whole concept wasn't what people wanted out of the joker

>the jogger

Kek, even though I'm looking forward to it.

Going by the Joker scenes that made it in, they did a huge fucking favor by cutting what they did.

I meant that Nicholson is arguably both the **most insane** and the best operator of any cine Joker.

Hamill isn't a cinema Joker, he's animated, can't compare those performances. But in general yes he's the best ever.

>Phoenix has very limited range as an actor
Please explain how his characters in gladiator and inherent vice are similar

The only halfway enjoyable parts were introductory bits, which makes since if it was really cut by trailer editors.

Also Cara crust witch but that's a different story.

>But in general yes he's the best ever.
Total NPC opinion. His voice is ok, and he would never cut it as the joker on the big screen. Watch him play The trickster on cw's flash. Total cringefest

Smoldering entitlement and stoned glowering, not a stretch. All his PTA roles were DoA, and DDL wipes the floor with him. Imagine DDL in The Master or Inherent Vice. They'd be ranked near Chinatown, Clockwork Orange and TWBB. And sadly, Joaquin is merely a reduced shadow of River Phoenix, whom Johnny Depp murdered to achieve success.

Hamil would probably be better at directing or advising a live action Joker more than portraying one; he understands the character well and had a lot of input in his characterisation on the animated series, if I remember correctly.

>he would never cut it as the joker on the big screen
Never said he would or could. I said Hammill's Joker is the best Joker in TV/film. But that you can't rank him among actors playing Joker on screen. Hammill in Joker makeup wouldn't be the greatest I agree.

his role was way too little in suicide squad to sell leto’s joker to the audience. this was their major mistake. after ledger’s joker had such a cultural impact and good reception, they had to sell the already sceptical audience on his portrayal but instead we just get a couple scenes of basically nothing. it’s either give him a major role and heaps of screentime in suicide squad or start with a solo movie.

>ostrage
Wow I'm astonished you've typed up that entire post without forgetting to breathe

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Bowie would have made this movie so much better. Leto was okay.

And why does the Joker need to be realistic?

Leto can't act

imo

1. Phoenix
2. Ledger
3. Nicholson
4. Leto
5. Romero

Phoenix seems like he could lead a decentralized crime syndicate - something like less politically motivated antifa, the alt-right, or any eastern-european drunkslav syndicate

Ledger is good as a solo-operator but shit in a group - would probably be unabomber tier irl

Nicholson would run a classic syndicate that would be highly effective for a short period of time - easily mitigated by police crackdown

Leto wouldn't get anywhere, focused way too much on the "insane" aspect so he would maybe get away with a short term crime spree or incite a riot / stampede - something damaging but short lived.

based

What about Her?

Fuck. You are correct, sir

G-rated Joker is a stupid concept in the first place.

>has sex
What a cool guy.

>Phoenix has very limited range as an actor
My hairy ass.

>there are people ranking Phoenix's Joker based on a trailer
>some are ranking him as the best joker

The absolute state of 4channel

Not sure how much use is there in actually looking at the believability of super crime. A world where a criminal as gimmicky as the Joker could make it big in organized crime is one probably pretty different from ours. The most believable is probably Ledger's in just being a very successful terrorist who's not actually motivated by long term financial success.

Nicholsons's version works in the world his movie is set in, in other words a highly exaggerated pastiche of pulpy prohibition era crime fiction, in the real world his love for theatrics, no matter how well he pulls them off, would be a hindrance no one would want to deal with. Being a flamboyant faggot only draws attention you don't want for a career in crime

We know neither enough about Leto's nor Phoenix's actual career to determine how good at crime they are. If Leto can contain his autism he might actually be able to successfully run a crime syndicate but he sure as hell doesn't look like it. Phoenix so far seems more like a depressed sadsack venting his frustration than an actual career criminal but that remains to be seen

>if I keep saying why they made the bad decision maybe it wont seem so bad anymore

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Correct me but your rankings don't correlate with your conclusions about who's the best Joker in terms of catalyzing and operating a dominant Gotham criminal org. (And that's not necessarily a general qualifier for a great Joker but each movie features a Joker as a crime boss or alpha gangster in an alpha urban shithole so it's highly relevant for a hierarchy ranking.)

Based on your descriptions, Nicholson should rank numero uno, then Phoenix (based on current speculation and promotions), then Leto, then Ledger. Yet you have Dead Olsen Twin Casualty as ... number two?

>Not sure how much use is there in actually looking at the believability of super crime.
Well I'm not sure any of the cinema Jokers fall under "super crime" in terms of supernatural or superheroic feats of villainy that are impossible to mortals. Obviously the Jokers all exist in an exaggerated world, but each movie is pretty grounded compared to Avengers, Aquaman, etc. None of these Jokers has super strength or immortality. That's why the discussion about their realistic criminal abilities is worthwhile. I'd compare them all to Dick Tracy villains, or the Sin City movies, or The Crow's.

>in the real world Nicholson Joker's love for theatrics, no matter how well he pulls them off, would be a hindrance no one would want to deal with
I don't agree. Look at Jussie Smollett's theatrics in Chicago, or Donald Trump's entire career. Look at Pablo Escobar. Or Duerte's iron fist with jokes in the Phillipines. Look at Hitler who was far more successful and powerful than any Joker on film. Hitler's sadistic theatrics and branding and Trump's Vegas mafia pinstripe narcissistic Gotham night club capitalism combine into Nicholson's Joker. Gotham is like 50x more corrupt than modern Chicago, so a Nicholson Joker with mob hegemony and fat bankrolls and hyper addictive products and poison runs parallel.

Thats all fine but I think we can all agree the Leto Joker is a cancelled character who only appeared in a few choppy scenes in one bad movie

>Being a flamboyant faggot only draws attention you don't want for a career in crime
Again, look at Hitler. Look at Trump. Look at Jeffrey Epstein. Look at Harvey Weinstein (who's probably had several people killed). Pablo Escobar through parades. He gave out money like Nicholson's to the unwashed masses. He promoted himself as a godlike folk hero. And he was as brutal as Nicholson's Joker. He blew up a commercial airliner to say FU to the US.

Ranking Jokers' operator skills, you have to consider the realism rules for their respective Gothams. That's why Ledger's Joker sparks growing dissonance now, because as this generation ages, their understanding of criminal enterprises and leadership matures, and Ledger's Joker displays little tact or talent for maintaining stature as Gotham's number one crime boss. This is a problem with the script, the direction, the depiction of Gotham as the most real ever depicted in film, and the performance.

>We know neither enough about Leto's nor Phoenix's actual career to determine how good at crime they are
Debatable. Phoenix is a known unknown but we know Phillips and Scorsese discussed Joker in terms of gangster pictures, not just Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. And we know Scorsese isn't fond of capeshit, show his endorsement as a producer along with DeNiro's cosign and Phillips' obsession with Goodfellas, just see The Hangovers, means Phoenix probably has grounded operator skills and demented prowess.

Leto Joker gets shit on for his appearance, but he resembles a modern cartel kingpin, amplified by a designer drug hip hop rave multiculti future. Is he much crazier than Tuco in Breaking Bad or Drexel in True Romance or Gary Oldman in The Professional? He's the only Joker who could appear as a Mexican drug lord on CNN, and you'd buy it, and so would millions of Instagram thots. Look at that modelesque nigger who had facial and neck tattoos in his mug shots that went viral. He was a career criminal. A billionaire thot married him and paid for his entire lifestyle. Leto's Joker isn't far from reality. And while Suicide Squad is an abortion the taco director's visual and fashion renderings were meant to be steeped in the future, that's why Mexicans and wiggers flocked to it and thots imitated the looks. It looks like Blade Runner if the US borders were erased for the entire world and ecstasy advanced faster than computers while IQs dropped.

People confuse shitting on Suicide Squad for being a horrible movie, shitting on Leto's Joker performance, shitting on Leto's Joker appearance, and fail to address how despite all this Suicide Squad is one of the most definitive visual mainstream movies as far as cultural impact in a long time. That's not a good thing but it's a fact

Her is literally a movie where Phoenix plays a timid white male cuck. His ironic mustache acts for him. Compare Phoenix in Her to Cage in Adaptation of Hoffman in Synecdoche NY, he's a drama student by comparison, a less is more fraud.

Want to know who should have replaced Phoenix on Her to make legendary kino? Vincent Gallo. Impossible to argue he wouldn't be 100x better in role

Leto Joker seems like he would fit far better as a villain in a grittier crime drama (like The Wire, but in Gotham) as opposed to a big budget superhero film.

To be honest if there ever ends up being any payoff for the Jason Todd theory, it would redeem it all for me, and clarify why his character felt so jarringly stupid

Other than girls dressing up like Harley for Halloween I haven't seen a single cultural impact from this movie. Can you list them?

>dat student film acting
>realistic
have gex

Leto was a good Joker.

>ma look! no socks
>amiedgy yet?
cringe

Exactly. No excuses, it just sucked.

I never saw Suicide Squad but honestly the pre-release memes cemented him as a pretty memorable Joker. It literally got to the point where I couldn't distinguish the Yea Forums meme stories from the real ones, I wish the movie had never come out at all because that shit was hilarious, it was all so petulant and childish

>Lights! Camera! INSANITY!

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Yes, and Batman 89 did it and better

Both. Suicide Squad was fucking shit. The only good thing about that movie was Margot Robbie.

Popular opinion : watched SS only for Cara Delevingne

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Jack Nicholson is the ultimate Joker. He just wants to gas the city because he finds it funny.

He isn't trying to prove a 101 philosophy point on the city.

this, he's just a comic book villain. and that's the way he should be depicted, the joker was created as a kid's comic book character, designed to sell weight sets to teenaged nerds, nothing more. cringy as fuck seeing 14 year olds trying to turn it into a whole babby tier philosophical statement just because he had a somewhat cool character design in some decent-ish action flick that came out 10 years ago.
i mean, is this the joke or something, am I the punchline? oh my god I...
honk honk

leto choose this costume so...

Didn't he start making cat purr noises in scenes? That's all I can remember from that hot garbage.

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he'll never have sex with you.
need to quash that fantasy in the bud.

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When she was hot and had tits...

weak script

in terms of organization capacity you're right, but i was ranking them on effectiveness - whatever stated goal they wanted to i ranked them on their potential to accomplish it.
ledger effectively wanted to force batman into making hard choices, rather than leading a criminal organization.

in terms of organization leading you're on the nose.