Daily Reminder TLJ is Lucas kino
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Reminder that OP and Pablo are damage controlling.
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sorry misquote
did you guys forget luke going into exile because he failed to train kylo was the basis for the entire plot in force awakens?
>Luke in exile
>Jake Skywalker: tried to kill his nephew, ran awway like a coward on island to milk walruses while the First Order ramapges through the galaxy
Shill harder, faggot
Wowowowowo
No it's not
It wasn't George's idea to have Luke screw off to an island to die just because he messed up the entire galaxy by trying to kill his nephew in his sleep
That's all Rian
It's unimaginable that Luke would go into exile while the FO was detsroying the galaxy, that's JJ Abrams idea in TFA, Luke just vanished 'poof'. It's unimaginable that Luke would go in exile after trying to murder his nephew and realizing the Jedi were all wrong and need to die, that's Rian-the-shlock-Johnson. If George made him go in exile that's probably in search of something and would not leave his friends behind in danger.
I don't think anyone argues that. Luke went to into exile to find the original Jedi temple and left a map split up to find him.
Then when someone finds him and hands him his fathers old lightsaber he tosses it and ignores them like it's a MAD TV sketch.
This is the last time Lucas is mentioned in the Art of Force Awakens book.
Like the man himself said
>They weren’t that keen to have me involved anyway
So they took the Luke in exile cause they sure as fuck aren't above pilfering Lucas' ideas or straight up tracing McQuarrie's drawings, but they pretty much saw him as the most hated man in sci-fi. Abrams is, or at least pretends to be a typical cliche duologist fag. He's friends with Pegg who still probably foams at the mouth when talking about Ewoks. They both think Kasdan is what made the OT good and TFA was designed as some sort of safety blanket that traumatized SW fags can drape themselves with after all the torture that mean ol' Lucas put them through.
they gave him a courtesy meeting, saw if there's anything good to poach and then turned to Abrams and Kasdan.
amazingly, it's not that Luke being in exile was the problem, but what he was doing while in exile (NOTHING) and what got him there (CAUSING STAR WARS COLUMBINE BY TOYING WITH THE IDEA OF MURDERING HIS NEPHEW)
>TOYING WITH THE IDEA OF MURDERING HIS NEPHEW
This in itself doesn't bother me as much as the context of it. Yeah, the flashback scenes are hack-y and stupid, but what really bothers me is the entire backstory behind it. How/why did Luke let Ben get that fucked up to begin with? How did Snoke get his claws so deep into Ben without Luke and/or Leia taking a more proactive position? Where did Snoke come from? It's just easy convenient writing to justify why Rey is in the same position Luke was in the original trilogy and why there's once again a mean old wizard and his lightsaber wielding apprentice. By getting rid of said mean old wizard there's definitely room for IX to do something different but it's sort of too little too late now.
Also, why did Ben murder the whole school afterwards. Those kids did nothing to him
>oh, no, my uncle tried to kill me. Better fuck up my schoolmates
Fuck, if Luke killed him, those other kids would be alive.
Nobody complained about Luke being in exile, retard. People complained about the reason.
Calm down gramp
I'll never understand why people care about these movies so fucking much, the OT was mostly good but everything since then has been varying levels of trash, aside from a handful of videogames making good use of the license, the franchise has been in the toilet for decades.
Read TFA concept art book. George's plan was to have Luke be in exile hunting down old Jedi ruins for forgotten knowledge since Kylo Ren and his goons were stronger than him and he needed help. Rey would have been instrumental in helping him do this with her scavenging/archeology skills. Luke wasn't going to be a cuck who sat on a rock waiting to die because he forgot everything he learned about redeeming people from the Dark Side and assaulted his nephew. This damage control is obvious and pathetic. TLJ will never NOT be a massive fuck up, no matter how hard you try to twist the narrative. Fuck off, shill.
what a fucking waste
I'm like, 99% sure that if it was Lucas who wanted to go that direction, you'd actually name drop him to support your argument.
Also, exiled Luke wasn't the problem, it was the reasoning behind it that was unintelligible for the character.
Stop being a dishonest shill and go outside today
Stop coping and projecting
Have sex
Have sex
Have sex
The kikes even wanted to credit George as creative advisor, to keep the seal of approval and eventually blame him when they fuck up. George went on live television to explain he had nothing to do with this abomination
>oh, no, my uncle tried to kill me. Better fuck up my schoolmates
Better kill my dad first
It's fine if you don't like Star Wars, just don't tell us that we should stop liking it because the jews want to sell it to normies
Imagine taking one the most famous beloved characters in all movies and turning them into a joke. I'm glad I stopped caring about star wars a long time ago.
Have sex
Have an abortion
I can't believe you retards still don't understand the map was to the temple he was said to be looking for, not to Luke himself
Why doesn't Pablo give us the whole outline instead of cherry picking plot points that fits the Disney narrative. After the TLJ backlash there was a barrage of articles bashing George Lucas for some reason, telling us the prequels were bad and punished Luke was his idea...
Jews love to destroy hero archetypes
It leaves people jaded and unwilling to stand against them
>ywn see old Luke wrecking the knights of ren using a WOODEN STICK embued with his force power
Why live?
He's not referring to Lucas, because Lucas has no power over the production of these films. Either that or he's misusing the word 'supersede'.
Hack.
Exile Luke was never a problem.
Exile Luke being a juvenile baby that throws his lightsaber over his shoulder and drinks green penismilk like a baby, destroying what character Luke ever had, was.
Reminder that thinking Lucas' writing is above critique, especially after the prequels, is laughable.
Pablo Hidalgo?
More like
PUTO HIDALGO JAJAJAJA
You say, “Oh, what about this scene where this happens or that happens?” because you want to give the fullest experience that you can. And like you say, it was brief enough that I was — [chuckles] They had time for me to milk that big alien but to show any human emotion? Nah, we don’t have time for that. But again it’s not my call.
inverse.com
Luke in exile does not equal him being a whiney faggot like he was in the last Jedi
damage control
(disney didn't use lucas scripts)
Pablo Hidalgo is basically janitor-tier. A fat, talentless balding literally who.
Have sex
>Pablo Hidalgo is basically janitor-tier. A fat, talentless balding literally who.
Pretty sure he hates KK and Disney as much as we do. He is a Lucasfilm vet. When KK took over, instead of giving him the story group, she brought her friend Kiri Hart and Pablo seems to have been completely sidelined and I heard he didn't get along with JJ Abrams. But at the end of the day he is a Lucasfilm employee and can't say what he wants, he's on ejectable seat.
>i've decided your unrefuted argument is 'old' and thus carries no merit
i want to strangle this person
Didn't they explain it with
>Supremacy was halfway into hyperspace
or something?
LUKE went into exile so he could commune with the microscopic Willis which were the source of Force in the Galaxy
GO SEE STAR WARS
WE'VE GOT GEORGE LUCAS BACK
PLEASE GET EXCITED
PLEASE
i hope old georgie boy asked for another billion to use his name
>I've heard this criticism for over a year now and I still can't rebuttal it
The absolute state of Disney shills lol
i've never seen that and it makes no sense
>haha we've finally got the last ship where we want them
>lets just hyperspace outta here
>LUKE went into exile so he could commune with the microscopic Willis which were the source of Force in the Galaxy
Are you implying this is bad compared to walrus milking Luke who gets beaten by a little girl with zero training and they commits suicide because everything he stood for was wrong?
He's right that it technically isn't a plot hole (it's not a strict inconsistency or anything), but it's still awful storytelling given how significant Snoke is to the events of the sequel trilogy. And no, the comparison to the Emperor in the OT doesn't hold.
>Pretty sure he hates KK and Disney as much as we do. He is a Lucasfilm vet.
Hhhahhahahah no, he's fucking useless. He LOVES the new stuff and what Disney has been doing. The only reason they keep him around is because he's probably a good bullshitter and (according to his twitter) pretends to have or has the correct political opinions. Aside from that he is just a useless version of Leland Chee. There are old tie-in writers like Luceno who could do much more in Hidalgos position, but they probably wouldn't want to have his job anyway because it sucks. It's the "storygroup" and not a single member in the team knows how to write or tell a story. At least he probably knows what a joke he is and doesn't take his life too seriously.
>Placing text book examples of plot holes in time purgatory because your cognitive dissonance can't withstand the criticism
Is this a Johnson burner account? Because this guy is almost more pathetic trying this hard and failing this spectacularly for a guy like Rian who wouldn't even be able to distinguish him from any other Twitter troll
As far as I remember it was some special tech the Supremacy (if it's even called that, can't be fucked to look it up) had, being half in hyperspace all the time. Can't tell where I read it, probably here or in a YouTube comment.
I know someone who defends Pablo as a beleaguered guy just doing his best and frustrated by angry fans, but reading this tells me this guy is just a snarky shitweasel with no interest in honesty.
>microscopic Willis
he needs to go back to mexico.
in a sequel though its a plothole. Like Voldemort gets replaced by movie/book 7 by some literally who
Well, fuck.
you have to question orders that completely out of reason
and reason in military speak is a very broad term
but I guess the "resistance" fighting for freedom wants its people not to question anything at all and follow suit blindly
Luke in exile existed before TLJ, because he was in exile at throughout TFA. The reasoning for his exile is the problem, and that was a reveal by TLJ. In TFA, all er knew was
>Luke Skywalker has vanished.
>One of Luke's pupils fell to the Dark Side. Luke felt responsible and left, some say to find the first Jedi temple.
It's not set in stone he had a brain fart and blindly trusting in a Force vision tried to kill a family member, both things he already learned to not do in ESB and ROTJ.
Pasta from yesterday:
>Luke carefully unclips the saber from his belt as not to wake Ben and turns it on, only for Ben to hear and instinctually defend himself, even if by then Luke's mind had cleared and he wouldn't have swung
>This is what Luke calls "a moment of pure instinct"
Luke fully intended to kill him, then stopped. This Luke is a maniac.
Also
>Luke's exile comes from George
I have no problem with Luke being in exile, else I would've rioted at the end of TFA. I have a problem with its reason. Luke could've still been responsible for Kylo's creation and not have his character annihilated, by the way, if they'd Old Man Logan'd it. TLJ as is even provides the building blocks for it.
To recap:
>In "Old Man Logan", Wolverine is living secluded from civilization and had vowed never to extend his claws again
>Later on it is revealed the reason for this is the following:
>All supervillains gang up on the X-Mansion
>Logan goes berserk and slaughters them all, looking for bis team mates
>suddenly Mysterio, master of illusion, appears
>it has all been an illusion, Logan has been tricked into seeing his friends as the enemy
>in bitter grief and shame, Logan leaves and after finding out his adamantium skull and healing factoe prevents him from commiting suicide, goes into exile
Now TLJ gave us Snoke as a master of the mind trick, connecting minds (Rey and Kylo) and projecting their image to them in a way that would kill pretty much everyone else (as according to Kylo's words). He also "turns Kylo's heart" from afar, same as Force slamming Hux from across the galaxy. Now all you need to do is substitute:
Logan=Luke
Mysterio=Snoke
Padawans=X-Men
Temple=X-Mansion
Use of Force=Use of claws
Force vision=illusion
And you're done. Luke now fears to be used as a weapon ever again, bears the responsibility of the deaths of his padawans and for frightening Ben away, shuts down his connection with the Force and leaves to seclude himself and simply die.
People who use this argument have never been in the military.
So what’s his comeback to the old chestnut?
What’s the in-universe reason why hyper-ramming wouldn’t have been an option in every other space fight, but is in this one?
>If George made him go in exile that's probably in search of something and would not leave his friends behind in danger
Ding ding.
It's like if in Terminator 2, suddenly Sarah Connor is morbidly obese. Sure, its POSSIBLE, but given her character, she wouldn't do that.
Stop trying to use Lucas as a scapegoat and make everyone blame him instead. It's not going to work.
You idiots keep taking Tweets out of context and keep twisting the narrative to save face. What Pablo said is true, but George never wanted Luke to sit on the island being a little bitch and letting the Republic fall and his friends suffer/die.
This.
cringe overload
This has always been my problem.
You can take character and change it, but you’re going to have to show me the transition.
You can’t just make a Mary Poppins sequel where she’s a vigilante cleaning up London, then say “it’s been a long t8me dude, she’s changed”
Where’s the “under risk of route and mutiny” option?
>hyperspace ramming bring detected as canon breaking successfully misblamed on reddit
It's the small victories we've got to celebrate.
>hyperspace ramming has never been done before
>needs special shields to do it
Yet why did Hux start freaking out like he knew what was about to happen? Rian shits all over his scenes as if he has no internal logic at all
>Luke gives in to the dark side to protect Leia from Vader and palpatine
>when leia is being chased to death he doesn’t care until r2d2 reminds him he has a sister
TFA was shit, but TLJ was horrendous
>Luke gives in to the dark side to protect Leia from Vader and palpatine
>when leia is being chased to death he doesn’t care until r2d2 reminds him he has a sister
TFA was shit, but TLJ was horrendous
>something you don't understand or know yet isn't a plot hole
Yes it is, if nobody who's seen the movie can pinpoint you to scenes that clearly establish why something that shouldn't work because it could've been done in previous movies or it'd make everyone a dumbass in retrospective is indeed a plot hole. There's no plot to fill it yet. As soon as a sensible explanation is officially given, there's a fix fic for it. But the hole remains in the movie, as it requires tertiary material to work.
Not officially published explanations are headcanons.
Explanations never given but explained by a widely accepted headcanon are called fanon.
>Why assume it's easy?
Because it was conveyed that way in the movie. Unless there is a deleted scene showing it, she just turns the ship, powers up hyper drive and then pushes a lever forward. This isn't me cherry picking scenes, this is how the ram was conveyed in the movie and it looked pretty fucking easy
I notice he didn't have the balls to put "when a mutiny is imminent/in progress."
Yeah she didn't start sweating or bite her nails or even punched some equations into one of the displays. She was doing this without breaking a sweat, and she even let the FO continue to pick off transports for quite some time before she started turning the ship. Even if Plan A was staying in the ship to fly it past Crait until all the fuel is depleted and hyperspace ram was made up on the fly, she knew she was toast either way... so why wait until there's only 12 people left?
Also
>she assumes the FO is too stupid to go looking for the Resistance on the only planet they went past in over 18 hours
As if?
Johnson has demonstrated throughout the last year he has little more than basic English capacities, let alone any introspective or reasoning capabilities.
>Yeah she didn't start sweating or bite her nails or even punched some equations into one of the displays. She was doing this without breaking a sweat,
She's a stronk talented exceptional woman, sweetie
I can add even more to this and again this isn't head cannon or arguing themes, it was 100% brought up. The FO is actively scanning their ships based on when the medical frigate is destroyed and Hux comments on the ship was empty. This should mean they are aware they are using small craft to move people around but...not at all
Let's say Holdos plan wasn't revealed. The second they left the ship, the FO would know the ship was emptied and oh, theres a planet nearby... maybe they went there? This doesn't include the fact that the FO would be able to literally SEE the escape pods with their eyes but whatever
Which means it was an easy feat for her and she only waited with the kamikaze attack because she wanted to see more of her underlings die to seem more heroic. Which undermines what Leia says about her, wanting to seem less heroic and caring more about keeping the spark alight. Which in turn was the only justification for her keeping mum about even following any plan.
OP is being very misleading.
Yes, it is known that Lucas's original idea for the ST did include Luke not currently teaching any Jedi, but that's about as far as the similarities go. In Lucas's version of the story;
>Luke would have shown up midway through TFA instead of Han
>He would not have died
>He would have sensed Kira's (Rey) potential and taken her as his new apprentice before the movie ended
Kathleen and JJ thought that Luke would steal too much attention from Rey, so they opted to shun him out of the story completely, write him as a complete failure, and make it so that Rey doesn't need any training. She gets validation from Han before his death, and that's all the set-up they thought they needed.
>This doesn't include the fact that the FO would be able to literally SEE the escape pods with their eyes but whatever
Remember also, Snoke has a magnifying apparatus in place where the transport ships will be at the end since the beginning of the movie. He is never notified the Resistance is escaping, yet he knows and shows it to Rey (aping Palpy showing Luke the Rebel fleet in his trap). He doesn't tell his underlings, either.
Are you trying to make sense out of a movie written and made by a literal teenage girl trapped in the body of a 40 something manlet?
Look, I hate TLJ as much as everyone else here, but you're the ones jumping to conclusions with no arguments here, not him. He actually did refute the complaints about that scene invalidating space battles already, like 2 years ago now.
TLJ is a work of fractal incompetence. A single answer to a single problem is derailed by five other problems.
And what was his explanation? That's aside from the fact that he's not involved in writing and so his answers are not canon.
No, I'm highlighting that the movie even on its own makes no sense because characters need to be their own antithesis as well for it to happen the way it did.
Legends Luke could take the whole cast, not feeling really well. Has a tusken cold, didn't get a good night's rest.
And all of them would get that ass handed to them by the grand jedi master
But I did make a case. There needs to be a reason why it worked here and nowhere else.
It should be in the movie instead of on twitter but I’d like to hear it anyway.
cope, tranny
Pablo is fat incel
A Luke below EULuke's powerlevel would've been more than fantastic, provided he was Luke. Instead, we got Jake.
TLJ is the best Star Wars movie. Deal with it.
DJ sold out the resistance. That's how Snoke knows.
We can't deal with your retardation, you're asking for the impossible. Jusy kys yourself asap tranny mutt 56% mentally ill freak. George Lucas fucking hates you and Kathleen Kennedy, Rian, Abrams and Simon Pegg think you're worth less than shit for unironically clapping at this test audience approved pigslop. Go play with your funkopops, fucking bugman.
Why does Snoke get a magnifying glass and purple burqa aliens to maintain it while everyone concerned with actually keeping tabs on the situation outside of the ship is myopic and has to rely on scans that are only run on inquiry rather than a regular schedule?
And that's the biggest reason why they hate Luke so much, because it's the basis on his character.
He's greater than his dad ever imagined to be when Anakin was at his height before the fall. And don't get me wrong, Anakin was amazing and spectacular.
Luke became something more than what his dad was
Luke is a literal Force God and even that is contained in the original movies. It's what's to be after Return
DJ told Snoke to look through his window glass at the zoomed in image of the fleeing Rebels. I mean even if he did, the fucking window is still there and seeing the entire situation clearly.
An easy way to make Luke powerful but keep him in check is to write him as if on the verge of merging with the Force against his will. He's become too powerful and enlightened to remain corporeal but desperately needs to find someone who can carry the Jedi legacy before he ascends. Luke can't use his full power without tearing apart his body and going full Force ghost.
Legends Luke was honestly a Gary Stu and would not be better for the story than what we got. Luke was never supposed to be a hyper powerful Jedi, he was just the catalyst of their return. It's a real shame we never got the portrayal we deserved.
He didn't get along with JJ because JJ tried to ignore the story group as much as he could and is probably doing it again
That would actually be kind of cool, and probably what Lucas meant when he was talking about the microbiotic universe concepts for episodes 7-9 and not the news outlets' retarded slander of making an osmosis jones movie.
kek
Nice self-portrait.
His portrayal in Jedi Outcast was fine, he was a Jedi Master that didn't most of his time teaching but wasn't OP
>Luke is a literal Force God and even that is contained in the original movies.
I don't see it desu. OT Luke develops a great personality, his Force feats were definitely way below Force God and that's part of what makes him great. Anakin had a stunted personality through nurture, but extraordinary potential, which he squandered when he became Vader. Luke achieved more through human qualities than supernatural abilities.
Pablo is a writer and one of the leading figures of the story group. He worked very closely with Rian Johnson during the production of the movie.
In fact, Rian Johnson himself said a while back that it was Pablo Hidalgo SPECIFICALLY who he discussed the Hyperspace ram scene with when conceptualizing it.
>I say we let it slide
tl;dr Luke was in 'exile' as a period of meditation to 'find himself', he did not abandon his family and friends because of some out of character lapse in judgement, and Kira was supposed to draw him into action much sooner and their relationship was intended as a legitimate affectionate master and student bonding.
Fatty Pablo also gets triggered by youtubers and people on twitter who don't fellate Disney.
The reason comes down to scale and tech. To sum up what he wrote on twitter about it;
The main problem with people claiming that the scene invalidated previous space battles of the franchise is that for some inexplicable reason, people decided to turn their brains off and assume that the tech being used in TLJ is no different than the shit being used back in The Phantom Menace.
The reality is, Hyperspace and shielding has progressed an extreme amount in the past 50 years of Star Wars. We went from physical blockades in TPM to entire planetary shields in Rogue One. Hyperspace Rings in AOTC to single-pilot starfighters that could travel through Hyperspace in ANH.
The Raddus is the single largest cruiser the Rebels or the Resistance EVER had, and on top of that, had one of the most advanced and powerful hyperdrives ever. The In-Universe science of it is simply that nothing else in the history of the GCW or the First Order Conflict could have done what the Raddus did.
People constantly say shit like "just slap a hyperdrive on an asteroid, or get droids to fly X-Wings into the enemies! Why didn't they just do that at the Death Star!" - But sometimes the simple answer is the smart one. The stupid thing to do is to assume that just because the Raddus does it in TLJ, that every other ship in Star Wars history could do it too.
The logical implication of the fact that we hadn't seen that before is to conclude that it's because it couldn't have been done before. That's pretty much what Rian and the writers and story group assumed would be. Much like you wouldn't assume that the Death Star could have blown up 5 planets through Hyperspace back in ANH. The logical conclusion of Starkiller Base is "Oh this is stronger, newer, larger tech able to do something we hadn't seen before", so why wouldn't it be the same for the Raddus?
(cont in next post)
thing else to complain about.
cont:
And yes, before you take the "but realistically the size and tech shouldn't matter, if you could shoot a pea at hyperspeed it would still damage whatever you shot it through!" route, that's a really lame and stupid hill to die on because you could tear apart the entire franchise for it's In-Universe sci-fi and logic that doesn't align with our current IRL understanding of space travel.
All you need to know is that, In-Universe, there is a tech progression for stronger and faster hypserspace travel, especially for larger cruisers, and the Raddus is the first and only ship of that scale and power to do that kind of damage that the good guys have ever had. Nothing they could have launched into the Death Star would have been strong enough at that time in history to have worked. It's really nothing to get hung up on.
And to clarify before people just say "sh-shill!", I hate TLJ and I hate the ST in general, I think Rian and JJ are hacks. But Pablo is right, the Hyperspace Ram is literally the least of the movies problems, and people claiming that it ruins previous space battles are basically just choosing assumptions that hurt the franchise instead of logical ones, for the sake of trying to sound smart and having something else to complain about.
Some people speculate that the students reacted to his blowing up that hut and turning on Luke and it split into a fight in which the students who wound up leaving with Kylo fought with him against the other students. Clearly, they won that battle in deadly fashion.
There's always been hyperspeed in SW. Doesn't matter if the 'tech changed' from TPM to TLJ. Its still hyperspeed drive, what is stopping someone from attaching one to an asteroid and firing it at stuff with the 'old tech'. lol
No doubt
The prequels were much better written, they had actual characters and story, not a bunch of memes and one-liners that lack any emotion or coherence. Luke is a cliched everyboy "hero" that goes through an absurdly rapid transformation between the fifth and the sixth episodes. Anakin's emotional instability and his exposure as a psychopath are gripping; and his doomed relationship with Padme is touching. In the compromised and boring "original trilogy" Han, Leia, Darth Vader and Obi Wan are complete meme characters, nothing about them is remotely believable or human. And why doesn't anyone care about deaths in those movies? Leia's planet destruction, Luke's stepparents' death, all of the blown up rebels--the list could go on--all the deaths are forgotten moments later.
As for direction, the movies from the "original trilogy" were mostly incoherent, badly edited and full of logical problems. The prequel trilogy is a work of a "vulgar auteur".
J. J. Abrams is a postmodernist with an eye for dense compositions and an autist (much like Lucas) who was a bad choice for a supposedly "charming" and "humorous" reunion movie--the only interesting character is the autistic Kylo Ren (the autistic Spock from "Star Trek" is the only interesting character there too), and overall lack of human "charm" emphasizes logical problems.
I feel neutral about the series overall, and honestly don't care about trolling or contrarianism. Here are my sincere rankings:
1. "Star Wars: The Last Jedi"
2. "Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones"
3. "Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace"
4. "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith"
5. "Star Wars"
6. "The Empire Strikes Back"
7. "Return of the Jedi"
8. "Star Wars: The Force Awakens"
Don't reply if you aren't going to at least pretend to have read my posts or know what you're talking about.
lel even Admiral Gender Studies ship is a mary sue
How was Hux able to freak out and know what was coming if the Raddus was a super special ship with a secret capability like that? He literally looked as if he'd been educated on hyperspace ramming and knew what was coming instantly. He reacted much more violently than if he thought they were simply going to be rammed slowly like how the Executor got destroyed in Return of the Jedi, he somehow knew they had seconds to act.
Lmao
Which is crazy considering all Pablo supposedly did was assure Rian there was no conflict with the pre-established universe. Pablo's "explanation" was an admitted guess on his part, later deleted in yet another tantrum/Twitter purge, probably because everyone pointed out how it made no sense. The guy is either a liar or an idiot.
>[Luke] was STILL godlike
He died telling his nephew 'lol u suckzorz' after nearly letting his last student get killed or turned to the dark side. Because he was too tired. What the fuck kind of brain damage do you have to have to think what Luke did at the end of the film was at all inspiring?
Hyperdrive is hyperdrive. Doesn't matter if the 'tech got better'. Its still hyperdrive. You'd still be able to ram whatever you want. You don't need 'special ship tech' to do it.
FUCKING FAGGOT, THAT'S NOT THE ORIGINAL COPYPASTA! YOU JUST ADDED THE LAST JEDI AT THE TOP OF THE LIST YOU FUCKING FRAUD SHILL
JANNIES, ARREST THIS RETARDED TRANNY
Now let's watch as the most cost effective first strike weapon in existence never shows up again in IX or any later shit Disney shovels.
all the time? that's literally what those people are paid to do?
So if "the tech" has simply advanced that far, why didn't the First Order just blow five star destroyers to topple the Republic instead of putting all their eggs in the Death Star 3 basket?
I used to think this strip was being unfair to JJ.
how does this stop it from happening in the future?
>All you need to know is that, In-Universe, there is a tech progression for stronger and faster hypserspace travel
that's literally not even what happened.
Honestly, just shitty writing. Like I said, the movie sucks.
My absolute best answer I can give is that, as Hux pointed out earlier in the scene, they detected that the Raddus was empty and about the jump to hyperspace. When it turned to face him, he may have realized that there was at least intent to do damage with it, and it's possible that a hyperspace collision of this scale had never been recorded, and as such Hux panicked because he was unsure if the Supremacy would be able to take the hit or not.
You're objectively wrong. You don't get to dictate the laws of this fictional universe, if they say the tech got better and that it was possible with the Raddus, then that is the rules established for the universe by the people in charge. You don't have to like it, but it just is how it is.
That's the thing, the Raddus was huge, much larger than the First Order Star Destroyers. It was their Home ship. The Resistance only had one, all their other cruisers were tiny in comparison. They're not going to be able to snap their fingers and get another one. Nobody is going to scrap their entire military funding to put everything into a one-time-use giant nuke.
First Order Star Destroyers are smaller than the Raddus, and probably don't all share the Hyperdrive and whatever Shielding magic shit that the Raddus did.
Also your arguments are tackling the idea that FUTURE Star Wars space battles are now beholden to the knowledge that the Hyperspace Ram happened, which is fine to discuss. That's the consequence of elevating stakes and tech in fiction.
I'm simply arguing that the ram doesn't invalidate the PAST space battles where it is easily assumed that the tech wasn't known or able to be able to produce that kind of destruction.
Based. I like this perspective even better.
Have sex
Pablo wasn't wrong, there was no conflict with the pre-established universe. They were just breaking into new ground and progressing the tech and scale of possibilities in the series with something bigger that we hadn't seen before, just like Starkiller Base.
Do I personally agree and like that? Not really. Tech progression is always iffy as fuck in Star Wars. It constantly feels like things progress too slow and too quick depending on the story. But strictly speaking, there was nothing explicitly saying it couldnt be written to be possible if the sci-fi magic tech could be advanced enough to do it, which is what Pablo and Rian agreed upon.
And he deleted his tweets for many reasons, but mostly because he doesn't even talk about Star Wars on his personal account really anymore. Nothing really wrong with that.
>J. J. Abrams is a postmodernist with an eye for dense compositions and an autist (much like Lucas)
JJ is a no-talent fraud who is allwoed to make movies because he's a jew, his dad is a producer and he was introduced to Spielberg at early aged, he gave him access to Hollywood. I don't even know if this fucker has been to a film school, I don't think so because he lacks the most basic filmmakings skills. TFA is an abomination in every way, not just the terrible story and characters but also on the technical aspects. Have you seen the editing? Incredibly bad.
The “it’s new tech hurr durr” argument is so fucking lame. In the SW universe, hyperspeed has to have been around for a couple of centuries at least, based on what is SHOWN on screen. Our technological bursts in real life are not comparable or at least should not be, and that fact that everyone immediately leans on the crutch of “insert current events here” and then back tracks to “its a kids movie, Have Sex™“ when the discussion doesn’t go their way, is damning. And to be fair, the droid blockade vs Druidia planet shield is a horrible argument. The droid Army was an invading force meant to prevent any ships from coming and going. They wouldn’t just beam a bubble around the whole planet and suck out their air. Come to think of it, the primitive Gungans entire way of life was based on large-scale shield technology. Hell, Hoth had a large scale shield as well.
Point is, all arguments trying to defend the soullessness and creativity bankrupt, erratic and unchecked writing is useless. None of this nushit is even mediocre in terms of story; it’s shit. And anyone who performs mental backflips to explain the inconsistency is shit as well.
Your entire argument boils down to poorly explained techno-magic that depends on the universe having an arbitrary you-must-be-this-big-and-fast-to-devestate threshold. Also now they absolutely can pump out nukes considering all they need are large enough asteroids or even a dense enough metal rod with a special hyperdrive and shields welded on.
>logically speaking, only now that there is such a huge thing as the Raddus, that hyperspace ramming is now logical.
>but size doesn't matter if you're going at hyperspee-
>ugh why are you trying to apply logic to a movie about space wizards?
Internal in-universe and storytelling logic is not the same thing as applying real world logic and science fact. As I already said, if you wanted to do that, Star Wars could be torn apart and invalidated from its very first scene.
Maybe. I don't know. It's poorly explained and can go either way. For the last time, I've been arguing that the scene doesn't invalidate Pre-TLJ space battles, im not going to arguing in defense of hypothetical ones in the future that haven't happened yet. All they'd even have to say is that shield tech was developed to the point that hyperspace ramming wont work again, as lazy and shit as it is.
the fucking shrapnel of the explosion blows up entire star destroyers. don't tell me you need a huge fucking rock.
Did the cartoonist forget to draw JJ's nose?
internal in universe logic when the Death Star II was made insanely big, literally nobody thought it was now magically capable of hyperdrive ramming. You're making up your own head canon of how big = hyperdrive ram, not using internal in universe and storytelling logic.
I'm not, im feeding back the logic established by the creators
And why the fuck would anybody even consider the Death Star II to be launched at something as a projectile?
There is no where in-movie where a character says
>hey you heard about the new hyperdrive tech we got, they say it can hyperdrive ram
you are grasping at straws and essentially saying
>a wizard did it
hyperdrive is hyperdrive
>everything need to be spelled out and explained to the audience for it to count and make sense
If he wasn’t trying to kill him than what the fuck was he doing? And does he not realize that luke exiling himself wasn’t the problem it was the way he was written?
You people are legitimately mentally ill.
Considering nothing else was spelled out and explained to the audience, this one case might've helped.
You goin fishing tomorrow chico man? Sure are testing a lot of bait
Movies are a visual medium, you show don’t tell. If you even don’t tell but write an explanation afterwards on Twitter it’s clear you suck at making movies.
They wanted a cool visual scene and forgot about what it meant for the franchise as a whole.
More like Pablo Cuckdalgo
luke went into exile in shadows of the empire to get his shit together, which was lucas approved canon.
what he didn't do was become some alien titty sucking snarky incel.
Well you sure proved was correct.
Pretty sure Lucas's old scripts for episode 7 showed him in a mentor role or a hermit, while being in exile is not bad and can be interesting, just because Rian modified Lucas's idea, doesn't mean it was implemented good or even passable at all.
Episode VII was an abortion of a terrible script, even more terrible dialogue and poor implementation of the iconic characters of the OT. There's a reason that most people don't like TLJ, because it's not only a shit film but a shit star wars film.
You're literally adding on your own headcanon of how hyperdrive ramming is now capable despite the creators never having it be a thing because it would destroy the logic of space battles.
Yeah, they quietly omitted how during the early stages, the First Order wasn't an Empire.
So if Rey activates a switch on the lightsaber and now can magically pass through other lightsabers is that a plothole?
sorry bro the movie still sucks ass
and the fact that if took you this long to come up with that excuse is kind of pathetic
>"i say we let it slide"
no your shit is garbage
>Take one aspect of what Lucas wrote
>Shit all over it
>"It's totally the same guys"
Please don't link MADtv with this garbage.
Ok, what about 2010s SNL
Weak damage control.
Star Wars: Skywalkers
Will they ever leave Lucas alone?
any by skywalker, they obviously mean not skywalker
"THE MAP WAS TO THE TEMPLE! REALLY!!!"
Much better
Okay devils advocate, you only have to use your brain to figure out that the map is obviously to the temple. Luke didn't tell anybody what or where or why, just that he'd be in that location, so to him it was a map to that temple, to everyone else they just knew it as a map that would take them to Luke.
With that said, its still a fucking retarded mcguffin and makes no sense for either TFA or TLJ for it to exist or for Luke to have left that map to anybody unless he intended to come back, which he didnt even after finding out what had happened to his friends/family/galaxy while he was gone.
Some of the comics were kino like Dark Times, Tales and Vader Cry of Shadows
The Last Jedi is better directed than perhaps every single Star Wars film besides Empire Strikes Back and Revenge of the Sith
And has a script worse than Attack of the Clones.
ohnononono b-but /tvpol/ incels told me lucas was based & redpilled and the devils rian johnson and kathleen kennedy betrayed him to kill star wars and destroy the white race
Maybe he was afraid of being labelled an antisemite
We already had this thread
That's what people unironically say about things that are different. Script was actually fine for Star wars which notoriously usually has pretty meh scripts. But it's how you stage the dialogue and direct it ultimately that hits or not. Revenge of the Sith has some pretty bad dialogue by conventional means but it's done well and with a purpose to make it more theatrical and it actually works.
Same with the last jedi in situations
The fact they STILL think Luke being in exile was the problem shows that they haven't learned anything from this..
>Script was actually fine for Star wars
No. Even if you're on board with the movie's narrative decisions its use of humor is so awful it almost deflates the entire story.
>Revenge of the Sith has some pretty bad dialogue by conventional means but it's done well
Also no.
An entire character and all her lines are so bad (Rose), she's not even on the poster of the next film in the trilogy. There are also huge mistakes like Poe getting the idea to call Maz for help instead of Finn when he never Maz in TFA. And the last scene you get retarded expository lines like "Luke didnt die in pain, he died with peace and purpose" to tell the audience exactly how to feel.
I agreed with you that the direction was fine, so swallow your pride and agree with me that the dialogue was a cringefest.
>He LOVES the new stuff and what Disney has been doing
You're a complete moron if you think this. He has slammed TFA, JJ, AOTC and Bad Robot on twitter. He even though Starkiller made no sense
>the movie's narrative decisions its use of humor is so awful it almost deflates the entire story.
Now you need to just stop there, you've exposed yourself as a fake star wars fan or you are just clouded by anger. star wars has always had some out of place humor to complement the drama. What do you think plays do they have comedy and drama, thats what movies should do. The comedy was actually a bigger hit than anything disney had done and was better than ep I and II humor when i liked episode I fully
You don't like comfy Rey following Skywalker around while he doesn't even give a shit about her and does his daily routine of drinking blue/green titty milk? it was an homage to his tattooine milk days, dude needs some milk. Lighten up.
Porgs almost turning the lighsaber on was funny, Chewy roasting and about to eat a roasted porg infront of others was legimately laugh out loud funny in the theater.
You all need to lighten up.
>AOTC
>Disney
You can hate Starkiller and still be a huge supporter of Disney. I'd love to see some of these tweets bashing JJ if you still have them
I'll give you that the script wasn't perfect but ultimately it's heart was it's themes which were nice
That line about luke at the end was too much but other stuff was fine
Poe must have knew about maz somehow is all, it was a surprise slightly but its no biggie
I thought the dialogue luke had was pretty good
Continued and meant for
You
You just changed your whole fucking argument. All I said was the script and comedy in TLJ was bad, not that I hate all humor in Star Wars. The other movies' jokes were all pitch perfect and never dominated the entire scene like Poe's prank call does, they were just small quips in tense situations and didn't destroy the entire tone like the prank call did. There was no "Heh that's not a ship landing, thats a droid ironing clothes" while characters are sneaking around the Death Star and in danger.
So yeah don't fucking move the goalposts, humor is good, bad humor is shit.
>Now you need to just stop there, you've exposed yourself as a fake star wars fan or you are just clouded by anger.
Nice try, shill.
>like Poe's pran call he does
Like Han's call in the death star
You need to realize Rian is on a meta level of comedy and is doing it post post ironically
Most of them were deleted, but there's where he doesn't correct a guy who ranked TFA only above AOTC.
(cont)
>the movie's narrative decisions its use of humor is so awful it almost deflates the entire story.
We talking about star wars the prequels arguably are notorious for their bad comedy ruining the movies or unintentional comedy. Star Wars always had corny moments starting from return of the jedi at least
No.
>I'd love to see some of these tweets bashing JJ if you still have them
He deleted them but /swco/ had an archive. Bad Robot did a bunch of shit that made Lucasfilm extremely bitter. If the opening crawl doesnt make sense for TFA, its because JJ changed it at the last minute without telling anyone.
>destroys the marvelization of your franchise
Han says one fucking line to a guy who can't see him and thinks he's a stormtrooper, then hangs up so he isn't discovered. You can feel the suspense and danger he is in. Poe says like 5 lines one after another to a guy who can see him and knows he's an enemy combatant yet doesnt attack him. All the danger is sucked out instantly. You're pretending those are the same?
You just exposed yourself as a retard who doesn't know shit about humor and comedy and a dumb Disney shill who thinks the movies are the same as the classics.
Star Wars always had humor, even Revenge of the Sith had some humor, but its placement never came at the cost of emotional investment in the way TLJ constantly undermines itself. Not all the humor in TLJ is bad in itself, but a lot of the placement is. It scrambles the tone. Rey's cute little embarrassment at Kylo's shirtlessness being immediately followed with her impassioned question of why he killed his father is just weird and stifles the emotional content. The film having an extensive prank phone call (at the start of the movie, no less, when establishing tone is important) doesn't work. It's weird writing and feels desperate and self-conscious. (As it should be, since the story is awful anyway.)
Can't remember anything really funny from Revenge of the Sith besides the light banter between Anakin and Grevious, but it wasn't laugh funny it was smile funny. I can't think of anything actually funny in ROTS. But the entire saving the chancellor in the beginning has it's tone extremely light and almost slightly forced
>Rey's cute little embarrassment at Kylo's shirtlessness being immediately followed with her impassioned question of why he killed his father is just weird and stifles the emotional content.
Have you seen Brick. I like that entire feel of the scene, Rian sometimes directs to make things feel slightly uncomfortable or abnormal but I think his tone works even though it can sway, the entire thing had a moody tone to it in general. I liked it personally
I can see not liking the prank call but it didnt really bother me as i didn't expect it at all, might have giggled at the mother joke as did the theater.
>wah wah dumb Disney shill because I only liked TLJ out of the four total movies and thought the others were shit
>can't handle actual banter in a movie
>getting mad at Poe showing a little banter that was better than who talks furst you talk furst me talk furst
You're a phony desu
Well I guess we have proof that phony fans are better Star Wars fans than the Star Wars shills.
No argument for how Poe's shit completely destroys the suspense and Han's doesn't? Thought so, only thing phony is your pathetic "All humor is same its just banter bro Rian is genius he make great movie Brick let's talk about that instead of Last Jedi" post. Kill yourself shitbrained shill.
The suspense hadn't really started, Poe starts battling after that as does everyone else, and the movies suspense happens as the film goes on.
You can't handle a little banter at the beg of the movie before the movie really has even begun.
>unironically calling Yo Mama jokes "banter"
>unironically defending Yo Mama jokes
0.0000000004 Mickey Pal Points have been deposited into your Imagination E-Wallet.
The First Order had just found them, scaring the shit out of everyone evacuating and then had a clear line of fire at the famous ace pilot of the Resistance. Fuck off that the suspense hadn't started, literally every shill post you make is more retarded than the last.
>unironically calling Yo Mama jokes "banter"
What do you think yo mama jokes are? You apparently can't handle "a little" banter. Rian bantered in the one way that pisses you off so much, absolutely based and meta.
Can't wait for his trilogy.
Poe was cool and calm and quipping with BB-8 like literally anyone has ever quipped with R2D2 and how anakin had done so in the beg of Episode III
You are actually a dipshit
Glad you finally revealed yourself Darth Shillious.
Episode IX will be shit just like Episode VII but be loved by normies
But I'm the shill for saying wait for the Riankino
based mouseketeer poster.
And still no explanation for how Maz could have possibly had the lightsaber. I thought it would have made sense if it was a replica of Luke's original saber that he infused with Force memories as a signpost to the person who was worthy come find him. He could still toss it over his shoulder even and explain later in the movie that it was a fake and Rey will need to start over with a saber of her own.
>Can't remember anything really funny from Revenge of the Sith besides the light banter between Anakin and Grevious, but it wasn't laugh funny it was smile funny. I can't think of anything actually funny in ROTS. But the entire saving the chancellor in the beginning has it's tone extremely light and almost slightly forced
I'd say Yoda pushing the Royal Guards down and later sending the Emperor flying and stumbling over his desk were both pretty funny and got huge laughs during the three or four times I saw the movie in theaters. Other than that, I'd say you're correct. The movie did have its share of awkward prequel humor such as silly voices on some of the droids and the Separatist aliens/characters, but it is played seriously enough for the most part, and the silly stuff either gets a few chuckles or a non-reaction.
The scene where Obi-Wan is standing in a Superman pose at Padmé's spaceship's boarding ramp was probably unintentional humor as it did get a few laughs in theater back in '05 when it happened despite occurring in the middle of an otherwise very serious scene (Padmé is essentially breaking up with Anakin who then proceeds to choke her).
Fucking every single time? Jesus christ no wonder Star Wars is dead if this is the best shills have to offer
Damn disneyshills can't catch a break
>Can't remember anything really funny from Revenge of the Sith
Almost the entire opening act with Obi-Wan and Anakin they are dropping one liners. Don't forget the Super Battle Droids bullying R2. Most of the comedy is removed because the tone shifts midway.
>Can't remember anything really funny from Revenge of the Sith besides the light banter between Anakin and Grevious, but it wasn't laugh funny it was smile funny. I can't think of anything actually funny in ROTS.
It's still there, though, whether you laughed at it and clapped or not. The point is that it didn't undermine the serious parts of the story. Other things do, like the shit dialogue in general and other sources of *unintended* comedy, but humor isn't used to deflate constantly the way it is in TLJ.
Yoda getting the guards gets a little laugh
Imagine still having to shill the last jedi, more than a year later.
>Technology got better
>It's now more unsafe
>But one with this one ship that happened to be the card up the suicidal sleeve of the new hero we just introduced
>No one else in the ship seemed to know this was the one ship in the universe with this capacity, only Lady Kamikaze
Who has to shill it?
Imagine calling an opposing point of view shilling almost two years after a movie has been made because you're that bootyblasted
You must graduate
Yes, elements that will solve the problem in the story have to be introduced before they're used, otherwise they're just an asspull.
This is basic writing.
>meta level of comedy and is doing it post post ironically
You chimps should be locked up.
Disney and soibois who can't accept that it was bad, apparently.
Right user it was bad and everything that gets 80-100% on rt audience scores is great, capeshit is great.
Kys
Pretty sure it's still sitting at 44% audience score, even after cleaning up all the russian bots.
So?
That means it's actually artistic and divisive. People loved rogue one and the force awakens they have high audience scores so will every marvel shitfest
This is why everyone on the planet despises you people.
You're beyond lucky that western civilization is so tolerant.
shit meme
and you're literally defending capeshit getting high rt scores and the rt scores mattering
I didn't even bring up RT scores you fucking chimp.
You think if Disney just put the OT characters in the same frame together not being fucking assholes their trilogy wouldn't be getting as much blowback? Keep all the mystery boxes, the shitty fight scenes, ugly aliens, and anti-capitalist PSA on Casino Planet, even keep the purple haired cunt in the evening gown, but have a few scenes in the first movie with Luke, Leia, and Han together as respected figures, would Disney have to spend so much time and energy against their own fanbase?
He's talking about audience scores, not capeshit critic scores. Find one other good movie that has 44% audience score, any movie. You can't, even Captain Fungus has higher. Maybe something Stanley Kubrick did was artistic and divisive, should be easy to find. Oh wait, 2001 is at 89%. I'm sure you can find one.
Maybe, but that would defeat the purpose of nuwars.
Disney doesn't want the original star wars fanbase.
> just do a shit load of homework to convince yourself the movie wasn't a disjointed mess
None of that bullshit matters ever, what they spent hundreds of millions of dollars to put on screen does.
>He never tried to kill him
Okay Pablo, lets get someone to stand over your bed holding a gun he is loading.
See how his defense goes on the attempted murder charges.
...
In reply to you, you fucking inbred mongoloid.
>He's talking about audience scores, not capeshit critic scores.
You're talking about capeshit audience scores. The audience scores for capeshit are high ergo they mean shit
They are also high for oscarbait trash
Noah is a movie that has a low audience score and is actually good, but divisive
>Why assume its easy
BB8 literally gets behind the controls of walker in that movie.
Controls presumably meant for human hands.
Yeah but there he was supposed to be found halfway into episode 7 and still be hopeful and inspiring just unsure on what to do, and not a titty milk drinking, self hating hobo
based muh my LUUUKE faggots still seething, I like the tears, a quick reminder TLJ is kino ;)
SHUT
IT
DOWN
Why does Lucasfilm hate Luke Skywalker so much? This is reaching worse than Sony Ghostbusters levels of resentment.
He's a white male.
>I don’t wanna clickbait
Then stop trying to spread your propaganda by lying.
Damn this cuck.
According to TFA SW art book, it actually was George’s idea to have Luke screw off to an island and die. Don’t know about the rest. That could be Rian. It could be JJ. It could be KK or some team at Lucasfilm. RJ didn’t have a clean slate and free reign over the story like everybody here seems to think. I know he himself said the clean slate thing but he’s full of shit
I wish ICE would throw this spic over the wall.
All we know of George's plan is him as a hermit on an island with a female who seeks him out, nothing about Luke wanting to die. Also some concept art that showed a temple and ornate buildings on the island, not huts and trees and caves.
The FO wasn’t destroying the galaxy when he went into exile. They didn’t start destroying anything on a large scale until TFA. The movies don’t say this, but official FO backstory says they were a remnant of the empire that fled to the outer rim and gained power, made alliances, brought others under their power and influence, etc. They never came into actual large scale conflict with the Republic until TFA but they were not on friendly terms.
Luke led a Jedi school and it failed so he fled because he was a failure. He lost his nephew and some of his Jedi while the others went to the dark side. That’s why he went into exile. Because the Jedi suck, like he says. They didn’t even see that Palpatine was a Sith Lord. And it was his fault. It’s Luke’s fault that Luke became Jake Skywalker. I get why fans hate it and I’m not defending it, but it’s not like it doesn’t make sense. Luke’s friends can hold their own. What’s Luke by his lonesome going to do?
medium.com
This seems to be everything and has nothing about Luke being suicidal, just that he's in "a dark place". Also Lucas wanted Snoke to be the sexy Twi'lek Sith from the EU and sex Kylo into betrayal.
You said the First Order wasn't destroying them yet, but then apparently "his friends can't hold their own" against them. Which is it? Also even if he thinks its hopeless, would he just run away and leave his sister to die? That's the part people hate
but he is not lying lol
LOL you can sense the nervosity. Pretty sure the original story is NDA material and he can get fired for saying too much. he's only allowed to repeat Disney propaganda which makes me think they have a unit dedicated for this BS. They decided to release only one thing and that is Luke was in exile in the original script to blame George for what KK and Rian did. These fuckers are absolute shameless scum
>What I wish is that they had been more accepting of his guidance and advice. Because he had an outline for 7, 8, and 9. And it is vastly different to what they have done.
>Mark Hamill
metro.us
>must read the novelization of a movie for it to correlate
>let it slide
fuck this asshole and the horse he rode in on
So glad we got Emperor again but worse, instead of a sexy villain.
Just think of how many think pieces calling Star Wars problematic journalists would want to write. It would really conflict with their Disney check.
>Snoke
>Not sexy in that golden bathrobe
Fuck off mate.
Saged. Dude honestly go fuck yourself. Salt-mining a dumb fuck corporate piece of shit soulless movie. Pic related is you. Go fuck yourself
It's well known Lucas threw out a few ideas, but he was washing his hands of SW and more or less told Disney, "well if you want to bring Luke back here's what he could have been doing rather than just being at the centre of events and keeping things together for the last thirty years like he was in the EU books".
If anything other than RJ wanted this, it would have happened in the old EU rather than continuing with a consistent characterisation of Luke.