Why was this movie so utterly forgettable?

The first one is miles ahead of this.

Will IW be rememberable in like two years?

Would IW be rememberable in like two years?

because it's capeshit you autistic manchild

aren't all of the marvel movies forgettable? Except for Iron-man 1 and Infinity wars?

More or less desu. Ultron was a real stinker though.

Imagine an Avengers movie bombing this hard.
Thanks Whedon.

because subconsciously you realised that Ultron was 100% right. He knew that an extinction level event was coming, and that the Avengers stood no chance. His connection to the infinity stones likely gave him "insider knowledge" of the coming invasion and the snap and all he did was to prepare for this. He knew that the Avengers, despite their good intentions, would ultimately pave the way for the fulfilling of this event, the fulfilling of the will of Thanos. Ultron tried to save the world, he tried to do exactly what he was programmed to do, and the Avengers stopped him.

The hero of A2 was Ultron, the villains were the avengers.

The Avengers are fully to blame for the events of infinity war. The avengers have always been the true enemies of mankind. And only when mankind evolves and takes matters into their own hands, can they be deposed and made equal to ourselves.

Ultron wanted to trigger this evolution, this mutation. Ultron wanted to create a race of super-powered human beings who could stand up to Thanos' invasion and increase the chances of stopping the snap from occuring. Ultron wanted to be the progenitor of mutantkind, of homo-superior.

And he still will be.

kek, I misread, thought you said unforgettable, but I've been looking for an excuse to write the above so fuck it. big things are coming, the plan has been underway for a long time. the fox talks and merger were just as much theatrics as the movie. theater doesn't end at the movies, it doesn't end, period. business is theater. this plan from iron man up to endgame, with the coming introduction of mutants and whoever else has been planned for decades.

Agree 100%. Iron Man, Infinity War and Nolan-batman are the only capeshits that are actual good movies. The rest of them are money hungry crowd pleasers with generic fight scenes

Because it turns to total shit after Ultron says "Peace in our time..." The only good bit in the movie are the hammer test.

He was trying to drop the city onto the planet, which would have caused a mass extinction event.

You make it sound like the Avengers are the bad guys because they failed to stop Thanos, that's some 2deep4u shit
besides they reverse the snap.

The only part of this movie I recall enjoying was when they were all drunkenly trying to pick up Mjolnir.

>messy fastpaced plot
>shitty slav accents
>paper badguys who present zero threat
>ultron just never comes across as convincing or dangerous despite being an intelligent vibranium golem

It still had plenty of good, but it just couldnt match the standard that avengers 1 set.

It had peak thor, a good iron man vs hulk fight, the part where vision is born was kino (interparty arguments/fighting, and then him awakening), and did anybody really not like hawkmans house part? The only movie that begins and ends with the gen 1 avengers all together (well, hulk leaves at the end, and thor leaves at the very end after saying goodbye).

I'd add Winter Soldier, but yeah, pretty much.

It’s one of the better Marvel films. It gets over looked because people didn’t like how dark Ultron got at the end of the film. He tells Vision that humans fucked and they will kill themselves eventually. This scares Marvel drones because they’re used to something like that being followed up with “Le ebic Ironman quip! XD” It’s the closest to serious Marvel has ever gotten to date.

winter solider?

it's capeshit

no they're the bad guys because instead of trying to make it so the world can take care of itself, they try to become the world's saviours. which ultimately dooms the world. because the world is dependent on them. that dependency fucks the world over when they split due to civil war, and is the sole reason for why the snap occurs.

if they truly cared about the world and were truly being selfless they would've done things a lot differently, making the world at large far more capable in itself, with or without them, but they didn't.

even now, they don't see it, they still think it's all on them, they all have god / saviour complexes and ultron saw this. they were blinded by their own hubris. they were always the bigger enemies from day one, all threats they've faced so far, except thanos perhaps, have been secondary villains to the true villains, the avengers themselves.

the best thing that can happen to the world in the MCU is for the avengers, or at least the main avengers, the original avengers to die. and for the snap or something else to cause mankind to in part, evolve into homo-superior. so it'd be much more capable generally speaking when it comes to protecting itself.

also, lets not forget, the extremis explanation scene in iron man 3 hints towards mutation being an eventuality in human beings, that there is an inherent, innate, untapped potential within man which extremis latches onto and exploits to perpetuate itself. a specific part of the brain that deals with superhuman abilities.

>trying
Cap succeeded.

It's better on each viewing.

It's a narrative mess and it's bloated. It's bloated with cringe dialogue and very cringe jokes.

So it’s just another Marvel flick?

It should've been two movies.

But the point stands, I remember none of this happening

>these capeshit movies are ACTUALLY GOOD MOVIES
The absolute state of you humongous manchildren. Lose some weight, have sex, start reading books

No, it's not 50% philosophical drivel and cringe jokes, it's 90%. The good parts people mention are Vision's woke af shit and Hawkeye's "the city is floating and I have a bow and arrow", and if you notice even those two are philosophical drivel and a joke, they're just better written. It is that chock full.

There's barely a single conversation in that movie that is grounded in reality.

Don't ask questions. Just consume product and then become excited for next products.

Go shove it up your ass gramps

No it wouldn't you retard

Infinity War > Age of Ultron > The Avengers

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I like your head canon a lot

No build-up to Ultron. He just exists all of a sudden.

Winter Soldier and Civil War are up there just behind those two.

Yes, rebel. Rebel and never grow up. Consume and don't think

>complains about Ultron having a new origin
>"Quicksilver was a good thing" despite not being a fuckin X-man
K

wtf should I rewatch it?

No one's ever said that to me ;_;

>"They're doomed."
>"Yes."
I don't know how a three minute scene can be better than the entire rest of the movie, but this little interaction was great.

>Consume and don't think
You know this is projecting, right? Literally everyone in the thread is thinking about the product. You know very every well which type of human being acts without questioning.

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Unironicaly yes.

>THANOS IS FUCKED NOW

not everyone can have a high IQ such as mine user, it's ok.

it's because, even if you didn't realise it at the time, on some level you knew ultron was right and that everything the avengers have been doing up until this point has been backwards. the entire mcu filmography has been pointing towards this on every level. the avengers have done everything wrong, they've let humanity down far more than they've saved it. and it's time for them to move on, and time for humanity to take up its own mantle of protection, and be trusted with new power, and new self-responsibility.

Whedon wanted to do way way way too much and because of his hand in the success of Avengers 1 there was less (although not a complete lack of) pushback on it. This was also before Feige made it so that Marvel Studios answers directly to Alan Horn of Disney instead of Marvel the comic book company where they had a panel of retards like Joe Quesada, Bendis and Ike The Kike Perlmutter calling the shots.

Just to put it into perspective. Whedon wanted the first Avengers film to introduce Ant-man and the Wasp, and he fought so hard to have the Wasp be in and be the main character you followed that in the storyboard cinematics for most of the final action scenes she's still in it.

He tried to have Captain Marvel debut in AoU too, on top of Scarlet Witch, QS, Vision and Ultron.

It's like a filler between the first one and the real Avengers 2, Civil War.

And you have to watch it because Scarlet Witch and Vision play an integral role in Civil War and Infinity War.

The scene with Vision and the last Ultron in the woods is pretty kino, tbqh

I’ve gone back and rewatched most of the Marvel movies in preparation for Endgame and honestly most of them just suck major ass in retrospect.
I’m thinking these movies are good immediately coming out of the theater but after you do a rewatch they seem incredibly formulaic and stale.

It makes Vision a based as fuck character because he knows Ultron is right but is willing to let humans destroy themselves since he knows they'll be happier that way. He's like a ghost robot Jesus except not a faggot jew.

it's hardly a filler. it's one of if not the deepest narrative builder of the entire mcu movie series. it's just too deep for most people to follow beyond face value.

Whedon has a flair for getting a good ending scene right even if it's preceded by schlock. I think he doesn't just write with the ending in mind but literally writes endings and just doesn't always know how to get there first.

A lot of Buffy and Angel episodes are like that.

Which one was your favorite after rewatching? I did the same thing and mine is Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. After rewatching that film the music and story are just too good. I love 70s rock so I’m a little bias on that one.

Yeah. Controversial opinion but I think the first Ironman is actually not that great now. The scene with any actual heart to it that holds up well is this one. Pun intended.

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Civil War > Infinity War > AOU > A1

Well there's gonna be a nod to that in Endgame and lol at Captain Marvel, I'm glad they didn't bother with her character until right before Endgame.

Same thing that happened with Iron Man 2. Way too many heads butting over how the follow up should be. In both instances the director, the studio and Ike and his board all had different views on what the films should be and were too polite to tell the other to fuck off because of each ones hand in the success of the first one - that is, until they're editing this horrible piece of shit together with 4 plot threads and a shallow undeveloped bad guy.

In both instances Feige didn't want to tell Favreau/Whedon "no", and Favreau/Whedon didn't want to tell Marvel "no", both just hoping the other would come around to their vision as they got there.

Same thing happened with Ant-man, only before filming and with no previous bankable MCU film for Edgar Wright to fall back on, so when he threatened to walk they just said "okay".

With IM2, Favreau and the suits just had very different ideas for the sequel and they tried too hard to make them all work, while also setting up the Avengers.

With Avengers 2, Joss Whedon's ego got way too fucking huge. Whedon even had it in his contract that he would get to consult on every film and help make sure the world was shaping to his vision, and when that ran up they gladly told him to fuck off.

yes and no, ultron and vision are cut from the same cloth, but they're two sides of the same coin. they're essentially the dark and the light of whatever they both came from. they're a mirror image of each other.

remember when ultron called him naive? he is. ultron was far more "switched on" forgive the pun, he knew what needed to be done, but vision disagreed because he had a much more idealistic, hopeful view of things. which ultimately in part led to the downfall of the universe, the avengers, himself and mankind. but at the same time, ultron was somewhat too pessimistic, and while his sense of urgency wasn't unjustified, the way he tried to force things into being I believe personally, were a bit too radical. but I also believe that his hand was forced because he knew that to do things how he did was his only chance, he could never convince the avengers to go along with what he saw as the only way to protect mankind, because it would mean making mankind suffer to the point of forcing evolution. and they were corrupted by their own hubris far too much for that, they believed they could do it all, that they could be the saviours and like children, mankind should be protected from all negativity.

neither vision nor ultron were 100% right, which is to be expected because they're two polarisations of the same duality. if, somehow, you were to merge vision and ultron together on every level, this synthesis would likely bring about a far more balanced and far more "switched on" version of the two, who would know exactly what needed to be done and when.`

>"[Captain Marvel] was in a draft. But to me, it would have done that character a disservice, to meet her fully formed, in a costume and part of the Avengers already when 99% of the audience would go, 'Who is that?' It’s just not the way we’ve done it before... The way we reveal Scarlet Witch [in costume] at the end of the movie? Those were Captain Marvel plate shots. Joss said, 'We’ll cast her later!' And I said, 'Yeah Joss, we’ll cast her later.' [Whispers to an invisible associate who isn't Joss] 'We’re not putting her in there!'

fucking kek, Feige is based

David Fury once said Whedon has a beginning and an end. The rest he makes up as he goes. He tends to write cyclically. The final scene/arc/act is almost always some kind of mirror to the first. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it does not.

Probably because it's capeshit, and all capeshit is bad. Except maybe The Crow, and my enjoyment of that one is only half serious

Sometimes I think the MCU was actually saved by the success of Guardians of the Galaxy showing the execs that they can get the fuck out of the way and just let "the guy" do his vision. They've been letting the Russos do their shit so far and it's been pretty good.

well yeah. Vision even said, he was just born yesterday

god I love that scene, wish the whole movie could have been that good. only other scene that comes close is with Andy Serkis talking about the angler fish

you cannot rightly call it a movie. all capeshit is a product.

I didnt watch the red ones in theaters (I thought avengers 1 was going to be gay; turned out to be good though juvenile) and the green ones I did see in theaters but wish I hadnt. The red ones were obviously bad (to me), and I actually like capeshit. The green ones mostly drew me in because I saw earlier movies that were good and was thereby suckered. Im still angry about ragnarok.

Black panther, ragnarok, and cap marvel were just next level bad. Anytime something gets too popular, the jews move in and start corrupting.

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Winter Soldier and GotG both definitely paved the way for it, they were even cited as the reason Disney allowed Feige to relinquish himself from review under Marvel's board and just answer to Disney.

I wonder who he would have wanted. He's shit at casting. The guy actually wanted Hemsworth for Captain America.

Got done with phase 2 so I’d say GotG1 this far actually, with Avengers close second (and literally only because of the revolving shot)

It felt like Batman Begins to me: amazing first half and generic second half.

Yeah he's the Kubo Tite of cinema. Few good scenes held together by duct tape and human saliva. He is good in small amounts and his ability to depict good group dynamics helped launch off the MCU with Avengers, but it's a good thing he's not he only one writing.

I wonder if the robotic, scrambled sounding voice we heard at the end of the 2nd or maybe 1st trailer wasn't perhaps a "fixed" vision, but actually a vision fixed by somehow incorporating parts of ultron's mind that they somehow retained within stark's database or whatever. maybe we'll finally get to see a synthesis between the two instead of two seperate polarisations of the same mind.

I'm pretty sure they already had a framework in place for Avengers 1. When he was first announced, it was said he was reworking someone else's script.

I saw a webm of the first avengers on here, it looked like it was running at 48fps. wtf

Interpolated. You can do that with anything now. And it was 60 fps

Yeah, Zak Penn's script, which had Loki use Abomination to help him and shit

Yeah the original Iron Man was awesome. I even liked that Ed Norton Hulk movie which came out the same year. Beyond that yeah, most of these movies are forgettable

If they had balls in A4 they'll finally admit that SHIELD is completely full of shit as a reason for needing to time travel.

the intentions were good, but the methodology caused more ruination than anything. ironically I think this is one of the things that captain marvel shows. Fury really isn't as much of a badass as we think, it's a persona.

>time travel
What's people's obsession with time travel? Y'all have no right to bitch about bad writing, you are all abysmal writers. Abysmal.

>Y'all
Anyway, the reason is that time travel was the reason they were able to roll everything back in the comics

I came out of the cinema thinking that and I'm happy that more people are coming around on Marvel instead of just moaning about how he lost his eye to a cat.

>b-but nazis were npcs too!
Good cope, that justifies your manchilderness. But you're critical so you can't be an npc lmao

I legit wondered for 10 seconds who the guy with the glasses on the right was.

Funny thing is Fury isn't really even an agent of Shield in the movie. He's a rookie alright but they spend most of the movie running from the authorities including Shield.

Time travel is all but confirmed for A4 dumbass, I didn't write shit.

Sounds about right, but I doubt they were selfaware when they wrote the character like that

>stealth archery edition

It's Hawkman

most people take things at face value, I don't blame them I mean, it's hard work paying attention to deep intricacies of cinema, and most people don't see any benefit in it. but yeah, a deeper look at the cat thing has wider implications for the mcu. fury was a poser. shield was a shitshow and the avengers were more villainous than heroic.

yeah, and he suddenly decides to get even deeper into an organisation that is so easily led astray and corruptable. once again showing weakness in his character. probably also partly why he had the idea for the avengers initiative, he wasn't looking for heroes, he was looking for saviours, people to save humanity from itself.

maybe, maybe not.

>Time travel is all but confirmed for A4
And you have any source for that except the footage of Cap in his old Avenges suit which can simply be just a crazy quantum realm / dream sequence or flashback?

You know even long dead characters like The Ancient One are listed for this movie, right?

>Carol is actually right about everything in the movie, including the jokes.
"Give me that pager, you clearly can't be trusted with it."

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Comics

yep, she's trained to see weakness in other people so she can exploit it as a warrior, or work around it as an ally.

Uhum.

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it's ma'amdarin!!!!

I was getting tired of the quips in the MCU but Thor Ragnarok was pretty funny. It felt less formulaic than something like BP or Avengers 2 as well
It's gotten to the point though where the villains are way more interesting. Not even in an "hurr durr Thanos did nothing wrong!" way, just that they're far more interesting and charismatic than any of the heroes. Shit, I'm still mad that the two henchmen sent to capture Vision lost because of plot-induced incompetence

guardians 1 and iron man for me.

It's a thick movie. Like if you re-watch it the first scene with skrulls in in the slums. At that point we are told that they were impersonating the refugees. Later developments kind of re contextualize that; they actually really were refugees themselves. They weren't waiting there to ambush.

They made Ultron into robot Tony Stark.

all the marvel movies are desu, some more than others. I think this goes over peoples head because it's marvel and people don't really expect capeshit to be deep, nor do they really want it to for the most part. normies just want special effects and shock value.

like here in the uk when I go to see a film normies always laugh at the simplest most obvious jokes that are so obvious they can't even be called jokes, and then me and my mother (who I usually take to see marvel shit or sci-fi shit) laugh at way more subtle things and it's awkward as fuck sometimes. we laugh when everyone else is silent and everyone else laughs when we're silent.

I think MCU villains peaked at Zeno for the sole thematic reason that he's an "avenger." His goal is to avenge his dead Sokovian family, a catastrophe the heroes caused.

this too. zemo should've really made it hit home just how villainous the avengers have actually been.

pretty much all mcu villains have "had a point" or been justified to a degree. all villains have essentially been just as good as the avengers themselves, they've just had different perspectives.

who the heroes are, and who the villains are, is very much subjective. we only think the avengers are the heroes for the most part because the movies are from their points of view.

Zeno was great, mostly because Daniel Brühl is damn amazing
Didn't he fucking win in the end as well? The MCU is STILL pretending the Avengers aren't gonna end up reuniting, right?

MCU hasn’t made a bad movie yet.

>what we were promised
youtube.com/watch?v=tmeOjFno6Do

>what we got
youtube.com/watch?v=gu-nJ3DUpqw

Iron man 3 objectively.

No, this is stupid. Zeno was mad because his family got killed as collateral damage or something, right? Well fuck that, the entire point of these capeshit movies is that they're saving entire countries or even the planet. They aren't a humanitarian organization providing disaster relief
Vision going "hurr durr the Avengers invite challenge" almost made me roll my eyes out of my head

This is more indicative of you having a bad memory, not the movie being bad.

I find most MCU jokes cringe. I laughed the most at Guardians 1 and Captain Marvel but I think that last one is because I'm a 90s kid. The fucking loading screen was the best joke in the entire movie. It's just this super tense moment with dramatic music where Carol&co sit down to a computer running on Windows 95 and put in the disc to listen to the black box recording of her jet crash, and the camera just stays there for 20 seconds in silence until someone suddenly goes "What are we waiting for?" and furry goes "For it to load." It's such an alien concept to half the group there.

legit captain marvel shills in this thread
im out

Age of Ultron had that extra in the last act with absolutely massive tits that the camera was weirdly focussed on. That’s pretty much all I remember from it

>>go read some books
>>read
This is a board dedicated to movies, dumbass.

Non-Marvel fans are such man-children.

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That's not the reason. Starrk created Ultron. He caused the destruction on more levels than just "failing to save the city it adequately".

This was also at a time when Starrk's shit was not tolerated too well by the public, especially over there in Not-Slovakia. There are people throwing bottles at his robotic police force before Ultron is even created.

you're missing the point. for all the "good" the avengers do they cause just as many problems and for all the lives they save they cost the earth many more.

the snap itself is evidence of this. the only reason half the world was purged was because of the avengers failure. they divided themselves over their miniscule unimportant differences and got in too deep with their own hubris because of their view accomplishments, losing sight of the endgame and costing themselves and everyone else more than anything any of the other threats posed to take from them.

this failure in itself makes the avengers the biggest villains to date. they held back humanity, they put themselves before the bigger picture, and they left the world and the universe open to decimation.

I think Thor 2 was bad.

>and for all the lives they save they cost the earth many more
No. This feels like blowback equivalent to the retards complaining about property damage in Man of Steel
>blah blah the Snap
And if the Avengers hadn't existed, Thanos somehow wouldn't have won? Let's face it, he could have taken all of the Infinity stones at any point during the MCU or even before Iron Man 1 and the only reason he didn't was because of dramatic arcs and because comic book villains are assholes who delegate when they shouldn't

"I have successfully privatised world peace"

*things progressively get worse with each passing day until eventually half the world's population disappears*

see where hubris gets you?

all of the avengers are egomaniacs. especially stark.

Guardians movies.

Aren't most MCU villains kind of avengers themselves?

IM1 dude isn't.
IM2 guy wants revenge on daddy Starrk.
IM3 guy wants revenge for Starrk shaming him.
Loki wants revenge for his upbringing.
Ronan is an ethnic cleanser with an immense victimhood complex who wants revenge on everyone for mistreating his people or some shit.

well, unironically, yes. because the situations the avengers "saved" the earth from, would've happened. and this would've pushed forward the evolution of mankind into homo-superior. which would've meant that mankind could've fought any external threats, not requiring saviours like the avengers.

one of the main routes of evolution or mutation in the marvel universe is great stress. this is why ultron wanted to cause an extinction level event, there was no more time for progressivism, he had to act now to force the human condition to evolve rapidly. this is what he meant by weeding out the weak from the strong. all those who didn't mutate would perish, all those who would mutate would survive and band together. preparing themselves for an even greater threat.

Occam's Razor, user. It's the simplest explanation for undoing the snap and all the old dead characters being in it.

Based pseud

all of the villains have connections to the avengers one way or another, they're either created by them, or created by secondary conditions born from the avengers actions.

so in a sense no, but in a sense yes, the avengers created all of the problems they had to save the earth from.

I did the same but found them to be fun and an incredible accomplishment of world building never seen before in film history.

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>and this would've pushed forward the evolution of mankind into homo-superior
Okay sorry I didn't realize you were actually insane

that's a compliment coming from you, thanks.

It's not a story trope that aged well, and Marvel has been "adapting" bad plots with relative artistic freedom. The mere possibility of time travel creates more shit than it solves in these kinds of stories.

Tell me again how Thanos coming to earth and taking all the stones that were here unopposed would force humantiy as a whole to evolve
Remember, no Iron Man and Avengers means your pal Ultron didn't exist to force them to evolve
Also detail to me how any mutant would beat 3-stone Thanos
Have fun

Can't argue with that, but the point remains the same. The only other explanation is parallel universes, which is even more shitty.

It's basically the "DC movie of Marvel films".

19 outta 20 ain't bad when the competition batting ZERO

even if the avengers never took up the mantel of earth's defenders the conditions in which most villains were created would still have existed. so most of the threats the avengers created and saved the world from would've still existed even if the avengers as a group never did. and these threats will have been much more successful in their efforts, changing the world as we know it into something far different than the earth we know in infinity war.

that's a lot of extremely traumatic global events for mankind to deal with in a short space of time. that's a lot of potential for mutation.

ultron saw this. the avengers saving mankind from these global threats was holding mankind back on such a deep, even genetic level. in order to save mankind, ultron had to expose mankind to an extinction level event. he saw that the only way to combat the coming threats was to have a unified, superhuman population.

so I'm not talking about any one mutant taking on thanos. I'm talking about a whole population of superhumans working in unison to take him and his army down.

>so most of the threats the avengers created would've still existed
>but it's the avengers' fault they exist in the timeline shown
ok

there's a difference between the avengers and the individuals that comprise the avengers.

obviously the individuals will have existed in some form even if the avengers as a group didn't.

that's my point. you're only missing it because you're salty for some reason.

I find amazing this level of pseud for such movie. If the Avengers never existed Thanos would had snapped anyway. There is no working around that.

But he's right. You are either insane or you head boiled on cracked.com.

Thor two wasn’t great but it suffered mostly at being too much fantasy based for the average film viewer.
It still worked as a good set-up movie for the larger scale of what was to come.

It would result in both. The catastrophe is their motivation to travel back. There you have a traditional time paradox. They can't prevent it because then they wouldn't have the motivation to go back to prevent it. It would only work with multiverse theory and creating a different time branch every time you go back, except due to butterfly effect you can still mess your whole world up if you go too far back.

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maybe, or maybe the villains that possessed the stones would've put up more of a fight against thanos and made it so he never had the chance to collect them, or at the very least, made it so it took him far longer, giving mankind a lot longer to fulfill its potential as the eventual homo-superior race, the mutants / mutates.

I mean, if things were different and the avengers in question weren't there to combat the threats that sought to collect the stones, like red skull, or the dark elves or whoever else. thanos would have a lot more rivalry to contend with. and humanity again would go through far more as a result of those other contenders, but events not least as bad as the snap, hitting a sweet spot of potentially traumatic enough to instigate mutation, but not traumatic enough to cause extinction or something on par with the snap.

and FYI it's not uncommon for people with low creative scope to misidentify big ideas with insanity. doesn't actually mean I'm insane, it just means you're not a deep thinker as I am, which is fine, not everyone is. jumping to ad hominems speaks volumes about your character though.

Kino

youtube.com/watch?v=9DA6ZP96OdI

The main reason Thanos didn’t go after the stones until he did was because Odin was still around.

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He literally says fuck it at the end of Ultron, user.

we will never see an odin vs thanos one on one fight. feelsbadman.

>"We all have our time machines, don't we? Those that take us back are memories, and those that carry us forward are dreams."

You are overthinking the mcu or the best troll ever.

It was a middle chapter with the job of establishing the further saga, but they didn't really have an idea of what they were actually going to do for the rest of the saga so all that set up and middle chapter stuff came off really hammy, vague and bloated.

It should have been a movie about showing the Avengers at their prime, to make Civil War all that more tragic but they were itching for Avengers conflict since the first film but they didn't even know they'd be doing Civil War when they made this movie so they tried to cram the Tony/Steve conflict in this and it just came off in Civil War like the full Avengers team never really got along and were always at eachother's throats.

The movie also should have made Ultron more interesting. I rememeber reading some rewrite suggestion where Ultron was restricted by his programming so that he couldn't actually fatally harm or kill humans, and so this was his primary goal for the Vision body with the mind stone (to unlock his true potential and actually enact his world ending plan) and to fight the Avengers he recruits a bunch of surviving MCU villains to form a temporary Masters of Evil to do his bidding. Characters like Abomination, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Crossbones.

They also needed to segment the team somewhat like they did in Infinity War, having the Masters of Evil be part of it would allow that much more naturally.

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Yes and no, he needed the stones to snap. Forming the avengers and the reasons for it are the reason they got snapped so quickly when there was an easy opportunity to nip it in the bud. Earth was left spread-eagled and naked when they started haphazardly using the tesseract for weapons tests, but then Fury and the avengers get butthurt when it summons Loki and Thanos' attention. At that point Earth may as well have been handed over to Loki then the avengers, probably would've fared better by now.

why not both? stop trying to limit my ability user.

user, you are confusing necessary plot contrivance and enemies sorted conveniently in power for some deep meaning in a children movie. And you are smug about it. Lmao.

What the fuck is this GameTheory fanfic retardation?

The reason he didn't go for the stones is explained in the movie. He doesn't know where the fuck the Soul Stone is until Nebula tried to assassinate him and he spent ages torturing the information out of her (that Gamora knew of it's location).

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So, the damage control just started?

>it suffered mostly at being too much fantasy based for the average film viewer.
The problem was that it wasn't entirely fantasy-based and they wasted time on utter bullshit with earth instead of the elves.
Then whatever it setup it had was pissed away in Ragnarok

>hurr the Avengers are responsible for everything bad, only mutants can save the world!!
X-Menfags are this desperate to tear down the Avengers so their team of literal SJWs can become the new prime heroes, lol.

do you think thanos snapped away half of his armies? or do you think he retains the same numbers of chtauri and the runners? food for thought.

perhaps if earth allied itself with him he would've spared the other half and sought another means of saving the earth from the same doom as titan. probably not, but who knows.

I'm just trying to have a discussion and ironically some anons are getting butthurt by it, by simple ideas. I'm just baiting them with the smugness user, and they / you took the bait. good job. there's nothing to be smug about when it comes to ideas that may or may not be wrong.

And he did but he didn’t attack any of the 9 realms until Odin was dead.

I don't favour any group over any of the others, I like the universe in general. same as I don't favour marvel over dc or vice versa. I enjoy it all. so I'm not trying to tear anything down.

I think the extra layer of depth I've theorised about brings about a whole new level of meaning to the entire mcu franchise, and despite my negative points about the avengers I think it brings a whole new level of humanity to them. so as negative an impact as they might have had in the short-term, in the long-term, they're a lesson learned, and they did mean well, so they deserve no vitriol.

Even if he knew where all the stones were he wouldn’t of made a move until Odin was dead.
This is all explained In the comics, frogger.

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Did you watch his army attack Earth in Avengers 1?

could you go into a little bit more detail with that? what's so special about odin that he would've been able to interfere with thanos' plans so much?

>no Hank Pym
I can forgive the change in origin of Ultron in MCU. It always bothered me that Pym shrinking technology and creating an AI was done by the same person. Makes more sense for Tony who already developed Jarvis and also had a history in robotics.

>no stakes
There were stakes to a degree. Dropping the landmass from the planned max height and the turbo engines was explained to have almost extinction level consequences. But ultimately it's a literal where place so I get it. At least it triggered the Civil War and a change in inter-team politics. Probably forgotten about by now, but it wasn't completely without stakes.

>robot army
I 100% agree that generic robots are shitty enemies. Same in both film and games.

I like that Quicksilver is dead. Not happy about the execution, but the guy is fucking OP and it's hard to have threat levels when he could just skullfuck Thanos in 0.00001 seconds of his arrival.

>Ultron is a literal who
Mostly agree. I understand that they wanted him to be sort of act like an evil Tony, but I don't think it worked in execution.

I DID like the intro though. I liked how Scarlet Who fucked with Tony's brain and gave him a vision of his worst fear which played quite well into the conclusion of Infinity War. It also mostly explains why he rushed the creation of Ultron.

That's about all I liked though. That I can remember. (still better than Iron Man 2)

I just wish Black Widow had better hair in that one. Straight was a mistake. Iron Man 2 is a bit too much, but Avengers 1 was pretty good. Infinity War was worst hair.

Okay. Sure. But the end of Avengers 1 would have been New York being nuked and a lot of alien whale things probably loose in the world. A lot more damage.

Avengers 2 never would have happened.

Infinity War still would have happened and half the universe would be gone. No time travel bullshit to reverse it like how Endgame will unfortunately end up.

Hail Extremis Hydra though.

Ok, full damage control

>the comics

Which are not the MCU.

yep, agree with your first point. and the nuking of NY + the alien forces still lurking around earth would've likely caused some mutation to occur through the extreme stress and other things, so you would've seen more and more "heroes" emerge, new mutants who would've taken the avengers' place. maybe not in such an organised manner though.

3rd point is arguable, it's definitely possible but it depends on how the new mutants fared on earth, they could potentially connection the invasion to thanos and find a way to him. or goad him into coming back to earth to tie up loose ends before the snap. not knowing just how much humanity had changed.

extremis hydra would've been based. but at the same time, potentially unnecessary due to the new mutants popping up left right and center, including within the ranks of hydra.

idek what you mean but ok

>not referring the shit cgi

Why the fuck did Odin die in the comics? Did he just piss off and leave everyone else to deal with it like the mcu?

That's fair.
I think I'm of the few that didn't like Thor 1/2 but quite liked Ragnarok as a comedy. A lot of people were expecting a proper Ragnarok I guess but I think it was still the first time Thor was used well while still allowing him a degree of depth. He lost a lot in that film and lost everything by Infinity War.

I think Incredible Hulk cops a lot of shit but was a reasonable 6-7/10 to me.

I break the MCU down to 3 categories:
>Good
>Meh
>Bad

>Good
Iron Man
Winter Soldier
GOTG 1&2
Civil War
Ragnarok
Infinity War

>Meh
Hulk
Avengers
Iron Man 3 (good for Tony dealing with aftermath of Avengers. Not much else)
Ant-Man
Doc Strange
Spider-Man

>Bad
Iron Man 2
Thor 1 & 2
Cap America 1
Avengers Ultron
Ant-Man 2 Wasp
Cap Marvel

>FUCKING HORRIBLE
Black Panther (fell asleep on 2 separate occasions trying to watch it. BP was much more interesting in Civil War but boring as fuck here)

Scarlett had no nude scenes

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Even though the Marvel films are all 7.5/10 films, they have me invested in Endgame.

I have a feeling that a lot of interest in the MCU will evaporate after Endgame. If they're not careful, it could be a The Last Jedi situation which splits the fanbase.

I'm resigned to time travel shenanigans. At the very least though, I want severe consequences. RDJ and Evans are probably retiring from their roles so I guess they might retire/die.

Sadly, I have a feeling that most characters will forget that Infinity War even happened. I don't see Spider-Man having anxiety attacks because he remembers dying in Far From Home.

Guardians of the Galaxy = Homecoming > Winter Soldier > Ragnarok > Captain America = Infinity War = Iron Man > Ant-Man > Iron Man 3 = Captain Marvel = Doctor Strange = Avengers > Thor = Civil War = Black Panther > Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 > Ant-Man and the Wasp = Age of Ultron >>> Thor 2

In that order. Without accounting for hype and simply looking at film making.

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They're probably intending on pushing it on. Captain Marvel should be evidence of that. Their better option is to rest the MCU for 2 years.

Because Whedon is a hack.

The villain was good, but the saving of civilians felt forced and the sequence of plot was weak.

They are the bad guys. They try to prevent events from happening that will ultimately be better for the universe.

I watched this yesterday day and I like it

>enjoying Homecoming as much as GOTG
Is everything ok at home, user?

Imagine thinking this unironically

It's an interesting order. I wouldn't personally attempt to do a complete list in order of preference which is why I find just lumping them in categories much easier.

However, I don't really understand how your Black Panther is rated as high as it is. You've even put Captain Marvel higher still.

When you say "simply looking at film making", what exactly do you mean? I think Cap Marvel is a disaster of editing and really poor acting from the lead. I don't even like Doc Strange but comparing both leads as essentially Mary Sues (Strange with his photographic memory graduated from magic school and is better than everyone after months whilst other wizards have been training there for years), Doc Strange actually has a character arc and more interesting visuals.

I don't really want to break down your list too much. Everyone's entitled to their preferences so ignore the above.

Just interested again in what the good qualities of film making you're considering.

>However, I don't really understand how your Black Panther is rated as high as it is
It's actually not high. Civil War and Thor are just that low; there are just still movies below them.

CW and BP are actually very similar in regards to the stupidity of the plot. Both inflate a conflict artificially, and only have a few individual moments that are good. Marvel and Doctor Strange are essentially the same in being very rushed origin stories that timeskip a though a lot and don't properly develop the character on screen, and IM3 is just there becasue it's shitty parts pull it down to that level even though the good parts are good.