Son of perdition! Little Horn! Most unclean!

I loved that he honestly seemed like satan; like you couldn't trust him at all, like he'd snap at any moment.

Even when he's messing with John when lighting is cigarette.

What about that movie with Al Pacino and Keaunu Reeves

The one that always got me was that the crucifixion/resurrection was basically destiny/gods will, so was Judas really a bad guy?
He was just a pawn in gods plan and never really had a chance to be anything but the betrayer.
I hope God hooked him up with a bonus for being his patsy.

He was great, this movie is highly underrated.
never read the comics so i just view it as its own self contained thing.

That's not the only time hes done that either. Also check'd

This lad gets it.

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The devil in End of Days was pretty cool. Guy wrangled up a three way with the wife and grown daughter of one of his henchmen

That's one thing I love about 'The Last Temptation of Christ', the whole movie they build up the relationship between Jesus and Judas as best friends and his most loyal trusted follower while the rest of the apostles were flakes. So when he finally betrays him it carries so much more weight.

God knowing what will happen isn't the same as God controlling everything. Judas had free will just like everyone else, even Jesus.

Its entirely possible jesus told judas to turn him in.

Exactly this.
Jesus had to choose to be righteous, and Judas had to choose to betray him. That's a big part of what the story is about: the fact that doing the wrong thing is often very, very tempting, and doing the right thing is often very, very difficult, but making the right choice will ultimately pay off hugely, and making the wrong choice will always have dire consequences.

>Tfw no 10 hour epic on the old testament detailing the war in heaven, the fall of man and the rise of Isreal with the ending being the birth of Christ

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it's the talking walnut's bad thing not Mel's

This would be such an incredible miniseries. Who should make it?

Im not into the bible but curious what the bible says about angel free will?

As far as I know, the whole "angels don't have free will" thing is lore that didnh't exist until much later. It may have even come from The Divine Comedy, like the whole concept of Hell.

Ryan Murphy

Best Lucifer coming through guys
youtube.com/watch?v=ZhRYK9EYum4&t=106s

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>the fact that doing the wrong thing is often very, very tempting, and doing the right thing is often very, very difficult, but making the right choice will ultimately pay off hugely, and making the wrong choice will always have dire consequences.

Wow, the bible is such a deep book.

Yeah that performance was fucking great.

WTF im a christian now?

Putting Reeves next to a real actor is humiliating.

>if you don’t follow these specific rules you will burn for eternity
>basically we’ll Hellraiser your ass
>oh yah, that Hell thingy came from some poems and shit... but it’s totes real!
N-Nani?!

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If it wasn't for the Bible I would never have known to do the harder but right thing in my games to get epic loot at the end.

HOOOAHHHH
AAAHHH I YELL

>is presented with the origin of an idea that is so truthful and powerful it has become deeply engrained in our culture to the point that everyone is taught about it in many ways throughout their life
>"Wow how dumb I already know this lol"

>he doesn't know that they were referencing a literal massive firepit outside the city where they burned trash and threw dead bodies of people who were disgraced/criminals/etc.

He's right, though. Hell was literally a retcon.

Would this be one of the last great performances from Pacino?

Yeah I am sure the bible came up with the concept of virtuous behaviour, temptation and diligence even though there are sayings and allegories about these self-evident virtues in every single culture all arround the globe.
To be fair to the bible, you made it sound even more simplistic and low brow philosophic than how it is presented in the big book.

It's gnostic nonsense.

No, that would be the Dunkaccino scene, where he played a formerly great actor reduced to shitty gimmicks. To this day I have no idea how he immersed himself so well into that role.

Except Judas betraying Jesus on his design is apocryphal at best, and considered heretical. Don't overthink sandpeople's mythology collection book.

Snow Queen 2002

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>Hell was literally a retcon
No wonder every season after that happened has SUCKED ASS. How hasn't Earth been cancelled yet?

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>Except Judas betraying Jesus on his design is apocryphal at best
In simple english, doc. Can you explain what you meant?

What opponents of the omniscient aspect of the Christian God are unable to understand is that humanity has free will to do whatever they want but they apply aspects of humanity to God, who is not human except in the aspect of Jesus Christ.

If you must apply human methods of understand to an alien being, then you should think of it this way: you have a relative who is a complete fuck up and is constantly ruining his life. Are you really surprised when he gets busted for selling meth, or do you just nod your head and think to yourself "yeah, I knew that would happen"?

Now imagine you love your relative more than anything else on this world. What happens when he redeems himself and turns his life around? Do you tell him "I always knew you had it in you"? Do you tell him you always believed in him?

Now pick those two scenarios apart and apply them to the Christian God.

I think it means that this element was added retroactively

>plese don't use the big words or my head will hurt
He's talking about fucking fanfiction.

was meant for

>there are sayings and allegories about these self-evident virtues in every single culture all arround the globe
Can you cite these sources for me?

>no capeshit for the book of Judges
>no kino showdown of the ancient gods between Yahweh, Dagon, Baal and Molech
>no good apocalypse movies

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Shaytaan is a djin that rebelled when he was told to prostrate to Adam

Calling them self-evident shows your naivete. Things that seem self-evident to you now had to be learned by your ancestors throughout generations, and their knowledge and understanding of these things developed and evolved very slowly through trial and error and becoming intelligent enough to start to notice patterns.
Ignorant children such as yourself who have no understanding of or respect for the sheer scope of what your ancestors have done for you, how completely they've shaped you and your culture... You're why the Western world is going to shit.

Wrong opinion, Viggo is the best devil

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>Freewill exists and God is NOT omniscient and thus NOT omnipotent.

>Freewill does NOT exist allowing God to be omniscient and possibly omnipotent.

You can't have both.

The Fall was an inside job

Free will and God's omniscience are not mutually exclusive, you brainlet.

youtube.com/watch?v=jNN2zU5s0_I
angel heart devil is second best

>little horn
Its little whore you deaf fuck.

Google determinism. Growing up beyond faith can be difficult, you may lose family and lose friends over it, but truth is the ultimate reward.

Can someone answer me something? I don't feel like spending days going through religious literature so my question might be dumb:

But how do people know that whatever they are doing will make them avoid hell? After all isn't the Bible somewhat open to interpretation? Also don't almost all christians not follow the bible word for word? How do they know that whatever they are doing is "good enough" to avoid hell? Are they all doing it on a leap of faith?

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the idiot god YHWH created this material prison for us all, the so-called "Satan" only seeks to free us from the illusion of existence

You don't have to go trough religions texts. Just ask the Christians themselves. They'll give you a better answer than Yea Forums ever will.

You cant "earn" your way to Heavwn. We are saved by Grace. Gods Grace. Faith in Jesus is all that is required to gain eternal Life.

That said, "faith without works is dead." If you believe but do not prove it through actions, you become a a clanging cymbal, just making a lot of noise. It's really a bullshit catch 22 that doesnt make sense, but that's the Abrahamic faiths for you.

If determinism is true you were determinisically determined to arrive at the "truth" and so the truth has no value in itself. Whether you believe in truths or lies you're ultimately subject to determinisic processes and so whether you believe in truth or lies it doesn't really matter.

Also why is god being so cryptic about all of this? Why doesn't he show a clear sign not like the image of himself in a toast and says "yo do this or you will go to hell"? Also how does the whole hell thing apply to people with mental illness? Brain damage has shown to change ones personality.

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Who knows these things?

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I'm not Christian, I'm just not a retard. You clearly have an extremely shallow and inaccurate understanding of these concepts. God's omniscience does not necessitate or imply determinism. We've known since Einstein that time is essentially a dimension. The passage of time we experience is a product of our perception, not an objective phenomenon. God being able to perceive the universe as a whole, outside the constraints of our limited perceptions, has no effect on whether or not we have free will. As an aside, it's also worth noting that the are multiple different types of free will.

>Brain damage has shown to change ones personality.
That's because their soul departed and their body was taken over by a demon.

Determinism is not true.
If God knows what has happened, is happening, and will happen, and is never wrong, then freewill does not exist. Unless you're saying God knows all of this but does not affect existence in anyway, but then why worship it?

Jesus Christ, you're dense.
Educate yourself on relativity and the philosophical concept of free will, and until you do stop trying to have arguments about it. You're in way over your head.

>can't answer the simplest thought experiment

It's alright. Just never stop learning, you'll get to the truth eventually.

>when you're too dumb to realize how dumb you are
you got BTFO kid
accept it and move on

>If I imply my opponent is ignorant maybe it will distract from my own ignorance
yikes

>pseuds arguing with each other: thr thread
The universe may not be deterministic but subatomic particles not being withheld to cause and effect doesn't somehow mean you, a grouping of molecules with a computer that is programmed to think it's "alive" and "real" have any free will.

And ultimately brainlet user is correct that if God knows all of this then he determines who goes to heaven and hell from the beginning. Calvinists were right. Stop trying to gaslight poor brainlet user by making silly nonsemse arguments about reality being subjective.

I really liked Tom Waits in Imaginarium. Satan works best for me when he's not openly malicious.

>The universe may not be deterministic but subatomic particles not being withheld to cause and effect doesn't somehow mean you, a grouping of molecules with a computer that is programmed to think it's "alive" and "real" have any free will.
Nobody argued this.

>And ultimately brainlet user is correct that if God knows all of this then he determines who goes to heaven and hell from the beginning. Calvinists were right. Stop trying to gaslight poor brainlet user by making silly nonsemse arguments about reality being subjective.
Nobody argued this.

You, my friend, are the true brainlet in this thread.

The faith without works is dead bit is oft misunderstood, but that's the case with many things regarding dogma. What the statement arguably means is that a life sequestered and spent in solitary prayer is wasted and if you truly love the LORD then you go forth and spread goodness. That's why a lot of monasteries were dedicated to brewing beer or providing medical care.

To use a Yea Forums hot topic: it's like the Night's Watch in Game of Thrones. Back in the day, you could order a troublesome person to take the vows and they'd go off and serve Jesus and get out of your hair.

Oh, i only read like two posts and am still drunk from last night. Carry on then

>pseudointellectual retard: the post

It's either free will or an omniscience God, can't have both.

Spoiler, it's free will, God doesn't exist.

The absence of God doesn't somehow magically mean people "decide" anything independent of the causes that bring them to that decision

That's for the best, it doesn't bear much relation to to the Hellblazer comics and the character is very much Constantine in name only. Shame they didn't go the extra mile and just make it an original thing.

oh look, another brainlet jumping in to contribute more retardation. thanks bud.

Liz Hurley was the best devil because I want to ejaculate inside her.

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Why even bother thinking about someone who exists out of time though? We have no way of imagining such a being, so we could essentially just make him whatever we want and it will always be wrong because our starting point is impossible for us to understand.

Mel "Terror of Tel Aviv" Gibson

Wait just a fucking second.
>Judas
>Jewdas
>(((Jew)))das

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Nobody itt had contributed anything but retardation.

>Tfw haven't had sex in 2 weeks
Help bros

We can get a glimpse of his presence trough the use of strong psychedelic drugs. After that it gets easier thinking about how such a being might behave.

>We have no way of imagining such a being
Yes, we do. We know that time exists only in our perception. It is a product of how our physical brains function. Everything that ever has existed and ever will exist really just "exists". This may be difficult to comprehend, but it's not impossible. So, when we talk about God being "outside of time", all it really means is that God doesn't have a physical brain and can see the universe as it really is. This ability--called omniscience--has no effect whatsoever on the issue of free will, because relativity has already shown is that time is--essentially--all in our heads, anyway.
Free will is a much more complex issue than most of these wannabe armchair philosophers clearly think. Watching some YouTube videos or reading some internet articles about it isn't going to give you a full picture of the issue and all of the arguments and ideas and discussions involved.

It isn't.

christiancourier.com/articles/184-little-horn-of-daniels-sea-beast-the

One interpretation of Daniel 7 is that the Beast of the Apocalypse's "little horn" is the Antichrist, which is close enough to the devil that they may have meant it to be that in the movie.

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From all the portrayals I've seen Viggo Mortensen in The Prophecy is my favourite: youtube.com/watch?v=8CiuSr-6xP4

Peter Stormare is a close second though, Turbo Kong was also pretty good.

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try 2 years nigga

Try 3.5 years faggot

>that moment at the end of Lucifer when he realizes he never had free will and so escapes YHWH's design by literally stepping out of the comic book
Lucifer>Sandman

>reading comic books
yikes

i don't really rate dinero but angel heart slaps

is there literally any reference to an antichrist in the synoptic gospels?

christian tradition is fanfic-tier

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Im sorry but this post is the most psuedointellectual thing I've ever read on Yea Forums. Time is NECESSARY for you to think. Imagining someone who doesn't need time to do so is impossible. Either you're lacking in your ability to express your thoughts or your thoughts are flawed. Hopefully the former, but you should dwell on it some more either way.

Have sex.

wasn't this actually covered in pic related? i remember that when god went missing there was that long flashback about the angels

WHO /gnostic/ HERE?

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>Yes, we do. We know that time exists only in our perception. It is a product of how our physical brains function
im on board with the rest of what you are saying but this doesnt make any sense to me. are you saying a rock doesnt experience the same flow of time? if you removed the brain from a body it would just stop being affected by time?

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t. future mass murderers

This is why I liked The Last Temptation of Christ by Scorsese
It essentially said "Judas HAD to do what he did otherwise the crucifixion and thus the saving of man wouldn't have happened"

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>Time is NECESSARY for you to think.
Nobody said it wasn't. What does that have to do with anything?

>Imagining someone who doesn't need time to do so is impossible
Nobody said anything about "imagining someone who doesn't need time to think." Are you retarded? Have you actually understood anything that's been discussed in this conversation?

This is what you get when you try to have actual intelligent discussions on Yea Forums.

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Are you familiar at all with Einstein's theory of relativity? If not, you should really learn about it. It's fascinating, and way too complicated to explain in a Yea Forums post.

That's all I got

Gnostics are GOAT

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Time is essentially a sense, like sight or hearing. It isn't an objective phenomenon that exists out in the world, it's a product of our perception. Similar to how your ears translate waves in the air into sound, your brain translates your experience of reality into linear time. That's not the best comparison, but I hope it at least helps a little. It's difficult to really wrap your head around.

I'm not sure where the idea that the Serpent in Eden was the same character as Lucifer originated, but it is neither textually supported, nor does it make sense since the Jews had no such concept, and Hades/Hell was a later addition based on interpolating Greek & Roman traditions, which the Jews absolutely did not do.

If your reading of the theory of relativity is that time is only existent in our head then you read it wrong moron. If every human being died time would still move forward.

The Theory of Relativity does NOT in any way say that "Time is only in our heads". It specifically states that our PERCEPTION of time is relative to our position, meaning that two observers do not necessarily need to perceive the same experience of "time", and yet both will be completely correct in their observations because they can and do experience the same "time" differently.

Time is still extant, and it still exists absent minds to observe it, because space still exists. It has nothing to do with our perception. We experience time linearly and quantify it out of necessity, but that has no bearing on the actual fundamental principal.

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>If every human being died time would still move forward.
That's like saying that if every human died, the sun would still shine. Or that if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, it will still make a sound. These things aren't true. Our entire perception of reality is a product of the way our brains process information. Relativity has shown us that time is no different. The world that you know needs a perceiver, and without one it does not exist. What DOES exist, objectively? We have no possible way of knowing because everything we experience is through the lens of our senses.

>t. brainlets who think they're actually smart
the worst kind of brainlet

>That's like saying that if every human died, the sun would still shine.
Well it would still be there. And unless in this hypothetical, all living things (insects, plants, animals) died too, then it'd still be there for them to live off of. And it'd still be there to make the planets orbit and melt ice and shit. So I don't understand what you're saying.

>Or that if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, it will still make a sound.
Objectively, it still produces vibrations that move the air in such a way that could be heard were there an observer to hear it.

>The world that you know needs a perceiver, and without one it does not exist. What DOES exist, objectively? We have no possible way of knowing because everything we experience is through the lens of our senses.
This is a weird statement because it both acknowledges that there are objective qualities to reality, but denies we can determine what they are, which I don't think is true.

Sure, our own personal model is relative to our perception, but that's not a particularly deep or insightful observation, because it adds nothing of substance to a discussion. Yes, you don't KNOW FOR A MILLION PERCENT SURE that the sun is there when you're not looking at it. But you also can't overcome the problem of solipsism, and that's just as useful.

>The Theory of Relativity does NOT in any way say that "Time is only in our heads". It specifically states that our PERCEPTION of time is relative
Same thing, bud.

>two observers do not necessarily need to perceive the same experience of "time", and yet both will be completely correct in their observations
This is a ridiculous statement. What do you even mean by "correct" here?

>Time is still extant, and it still exists absent minds to observe it, because space still exists. It has nothing to do with our perception
Neither time nor space can be said to exist absent minds to observe them or outside of our perception. Not to be condescending, but you have a lot more to learn about these things.

Do you have more of the Spurdo demiurge

Try 6 and the last person was your oneitis.
I leave the house twice a year for thanksgiving and christmas where I just drink my flask outside smoking cigarettes while the family opens gifts and eats.

>but making the right choice will ultimately pay off hugely
This doesn't happen.

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What city, i want to look this up.

>Being an unapologetic brainlet
Sad.

you are conflating relativity with babbys first thought experiment on perception, to wit: your retarded and should go back to /x/

>Well it would still be there
What is this "it" you refer to?

>it still produces vibrations that move the air
Those are not sound. Sound is the experience of waves in the air interacting with the organs within your ear, which then interact with the neurons in your brain. Without all of those things, the phenomenon called "sound" cannot exist.

>it both acknowledges that there are objective qualities to reality, but denies we can determine what they are, which I don't think is true.
Avoiding solipsism, there must be objective qualities to reality because the origins of our perceptions seem to come from outside of us. Going back to the tree, the sound waves are an external thing that interact with our internal self and create the perception of sound. But what is the source of the sound waves? You might say it's the tree, but what is the tree? All we understand about the tree is our perception of it. How it looks, feels, smells, tastes, etc. But these are all things that only exist in our minds, because without our specific "hardware" a tree would have none of these characteristics. So what is a tree, really? We cannot say. We're limited by our own perceptions.

He's taking about Gehenna, outside of Jerusalem.

medium.com/@BrazenChurch/hell-a-biblical-staple-the-bible-never-actually-mentions-c28b18b1aaaa

Belzec

>your retarded

Ok thanks

*sips*
have sex brainlets

Omnipotence isn't the same as determinism. For example if the universe oscillated and you were an external observer you would know what everyone would end up choosing but they still chose it.

>itt: people who haven't read the Bible cover to cover

The existence of a right and wrong choice both morally and practically is a fundamental concept necessary for even the most primitive societies to function.

The way OP phrased it was very primitive and laughably underwhelming in its insight, considering he tried to sell it as ancient biblical wisdom.

There are great ancient philosophers such as Aristotele who elaborated much more pointed on the nature of virtue and its role for society long before the bible

youtube.com/watch?v=UqvlvOiQFAg

>What is this "it" you refer to?
Obviously the sun. A rock is still a rock even if no one is there to identify it as such. We label, we don't create things simply by defining them.

>Those are not sound. Sound is the experience of waves in the air interacting with the organs within your ear
In the most literal sense, yes. But again, just because the concept of "sound" as you define it still exists. Just because we are not there to experience, and thus identify and quanitfy it, doesn't mean someone COULDN'T. And the fact that someone or something could observe and quantify that sound, means that there has to be something objective about it.

>there must be objective qualities to reality because the origins of our perceptions seem to come from outside of us.
Correct.

>You might say it's the tree, but what is the tree?
A tree.

>But these are all things that only exist in our minds,
No, our quantification of them exists in our minds, but those are recordings of objective phenomena.

>because without our specific "hardware" a tree would have none of these characteristics.
That's not true at all? In fact, I'd say you're gonna need to demonstrate the voracity of this claim, or else it's just nonsense. How do you know this? How did you come to this conclusion? How did you measure and test that your conclusion is true? It seems that, like solipsism, you're posing an unfalsifiable claim because if there's no one with out specific senses around to quantify the tree, then there's no way to support your statement?

I suppose if some alien life with different perception capabilities and none of ours were to quantify the tree, and measured it completely differently you'd have an argument, but failing that I don't see it.

Thanks for reminding me brother, I gotta pick up the Blu-ray so I can watch it again

>The PAssion of the Christ is a shit movie

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Oh, I see le r*dittors are here

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how do you know all this shit?

Wrong, God knows everything you're ever going to do, but you still have free will to choose that thing God already knew you were going to do.

Judas wasn't necessary to Jesus being killed, given how pissed off the Pharisees already were. His betrayal just made it more of a spectacle. Given time they would have nutted up and done the deed without Judas' offer.

living in your head rent free

Faggot. Sandman is based and you are a super retard

I don't know if you're being purposefully disingenuous or if you're actually this dense, but either way it's clear I'm wasting my time trying to reason with you.

>God make a human
>God knows human will become a genocider
>God has power to stop it but doesn't, in fact him being a future killer of millions is actually by his design as all things are
>but we all totally have "free" will

Lmao.

>and Jesus said to Judas ”hurry and do what you must”
He literally did

youtube.com/watch?v=D7BJKMg_RgI
The ACTUAL best devil scene, but nobody has seen this movie

Worst child 'actor' ever

That's BOTW tier

It’s a shame these movies weren’t better, but I still enjoyed them.

youtube.com/watch?v=eb1AjU67W2s

De Niro in Angel Heart was pretty good

In a book

is this how satan acts in the bible or something? how would you know a good portrayal of him

>Angels have no free will
Yes, angels are intents of God, Lucifer is God's intent for mankind to have freewill.

Angels aren't real, user.

youtube.com/watch?v=oMe4kVNKvNk
best part of the movie before skinny high estrogen black guys with dreadlocks killed rock

>Angel Heart

Very good movie indeed.

How do people come up with this shit
t. psychic

Can we agree that Tilda is the best Gabriel?

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LMAO get laid idiots

tilda is a fantastic andro

who /psychbois/ here? also where do I learn more about this gnostic shit? I thought it was just "there's a god but he doesn't give a fuck lmao".

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You do realize the story youre referring to is Paradise Lost, not the bible, right? Theres no "war in heaven" in the bible, that's all medieval fan fiction.

Kino but remove the unecessary profanity.

yes

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timestamp?

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I smell matzo behind this post.

>mfw religious people try to explain god and faith in rational terms
yamete

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I'm not a footfag nor a humiliationfag, but if I was ever going to turn into one it would have been her as Gabriel stepping on Constantine. It did funny things to me.

Pretty sure that's an Islamic concept actually, not a Christian one.

Reddit the thread

>ummm you can't use human understanding to describe god
>god is omniscient btw
>no it doesn't contradict free will because you can't use human understanding to describe god
>god is omnipotent btw
I tremble before your cognitive powers

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all of you fuck off

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Uhh that's a song user

This movie is underrated.

TIME TO UNPIMP ZEE AUTO.

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>thread about Satan
>no 666 get

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>If you believe but do not prove it through actions

Wrong. The point is that if you truly have a heart for Jesus your heart should be inclined towards helping people and showing love to them too. All of those evangelicals who heap scorn on their fellow man are examples of how a person claims one thing but has a heart completely opposite that.

OH SNAP

most kino videos ever

>misrepresenting everything someone says so that you can call them stupid
there's a name for that, you know. it's called being a faggot

>NO NO WHAT I REALLY MEAN IS
>NO NO THAT'S A MISREPRESENTATION
>WHAT I REALLY MEAN IS
ad nauseam. It literally doesn't matter what your argument is because it changes by the day of the week and it's always wrong.

Dave Groh was the best Satan

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Angels have free will and yes, God created a plan.

Would you want to provide a blissful eternity to someone who could give a rat's ass about you?

God is looking for genuine beings who want to associate with Him.

could = could

Omnipotence literally means you can do everything, if it's can't change destiny it isn't omnipotent.

This wrecks monotheists.

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retard

Best one of this thread.

Well, the old Judas evangelion surfaced a few years ago (removed from the official Bible around year 300), and that's pretty much what the story is about.
Jesus tells Judas that he is his most trusted friend and that's why this hardest of tasks must be his. He tells him to "betray" him, because it is necessary to save the world.

I don't like comically disgusting psychopath Lucifers. Just seems like a fanfic of a fanfic of a fanfic.

Lucifer may have been wrong but he was hardly evil. How could have he been God's favorite if he wasn't all around decent aside from his fall from grace?

Keanu Reeves was so hilariously bad in this movie. Ruined the whole thing.

No, and Gospel of Judas shows that Judas was in on the plan and only "betrayed" Christ because Christ asked him to.

Apocrypha is important. Or at least, no less important than the canon, since it's all gross misinterpretations anyway.

I would expect that fall from grace would fuck anyone up to stellar degrees. Imagine the shock of being cast down from the highest place in heaven beside the old man himself into the lowest place in all existence.

The figure of the most zealous son betraying the father because of a misunderstanding is somewhat common, eventually he turns evil after all the years of neglect or resentment and in the end only cares about destroying what his father stood for.

Paradise Lost was a mistake

Literally everything pertaining to biblical stories was recorded hundreds of years after the supposed events, you dingus.
Apocryphal just means texts that were removed from the "official" collection. The Judas gospel is considered a bit newer than most of the other books, but not by much. Most of them were written about 300 years after Jesus died.

Guys. They're just stories.

Based on truth, yes, but the truth would make Christians and Abrahamics violently froth at the mouth and call you Satan's spawn.

Genesis is just a bad translation of Sumerian origin lore. The Elohim (plural) were a race of people. They may have created the solar system, but they did not invent existence. That was around long before them.

God is just a title for what is essentially their High King. What people mean when they talk about God is more accurately the Source, or the Eternal Dao, or the Brahman. Calling the Source "God" just makes everything very, very confusing.

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Book of Enoch pretty bluntly shows us that the Elohim (God and his angels) are simply an advanced race of Humanoids.

You need every religion to make sense of things. Don't take any one of them so literally, either. There are light beings who are what we call angels, yes, as there are many, many countless forms of life. Cosmology is a means of simplifying a staggeringly complex universe.

Wow, you're a retard. "Dunning-Kruger" is something you might want to look up.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect is a good way to totally derail a conversation from any sort of "good faith" communication.

Yikes, it should stop right after Enoch turn into Metatron and fuck off. Make it all full psychedelic and alien looking, not that sandnigger aesthetic

Been wanting a psychedelic religion/mythology movie or animation for some time now.

Well hold up, it's not medieval fanfiction, the war of the gods was known throughout many ancient cultures. They go by many names and there are many ways the story is told, but Enki and Enlil and their descendents did seem to battle all over the Eurasian-African continent.

I personally think Abrahamic religion is a misinterpretation of the Hebrew accounts of those events. Talking about it gets ugly fast, but I'm pretty confident that all of the mythologies were based on that struggle.

In Biblical terms you might think of Anu as God, Enlil as Michael, and Enki as Lucifer.

The stories don't always match up 1:1 because a lot of fiction and allegory got thrown in, but I'm positive there was a war between what we call the gods, recorded from India to Mesopotamia to Europe to even America with the Hopi Indians.

>Enoch thought there were TWO Gods when he met Metatron, because Metatron was the only angel allowed to sit in heaven (aside from God himself), and was described as being equally as beautiful as God
THEY WERE AN ADVANCED SPACE FARING RACE OF HUMANOIDS OF MY GAAAAAAAAAAHD AAAHHHH IT'S ALL REEEEEEEAL

underrated devil in an underrated movie

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>angels have no free will
This is literally wrong though

>God knowing what will happen isn't the same as God controlling everything
if god created the universe and knew everything that was going to happen as a result of it, then god made all of it happen. it's that simple

What movie?

666 get

God's just a powerful dude, my man. Brahman is/made the universe, and manifests through all of us, even avatars we call "God".

End of days

This was a good satan

Well, we got a game
>tfw the sequel is actually a spinoff, and a SMT ripoff at that
Daijoubu I'm not

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Early seasons of Supernatural's Lucifer was kino, before they turned him into a Saturday morning cartoon villain. His recurring theme was about how he doesn't lie, because he doesn't need to, and he doesn't so much use "gotcha!" asterisks or monkey's paw wish corruption but flatly explains the drawbacks to miserable, desparate people, who pick what they see as the least bad option.

White-suit posessed Sam was the pinnacle of this, where he speaks gently and a little sadly about his successful Armageddon; it is corrupted grace personified, with a being of light and love genuinely pursuing what he thinks is a path of benevolence -- the catch being that his logic is alien to us, and his understanding of love is far, far different than ours.

Then ten years later, the same character is pulling childish pranks and hamming it up like snidely whiplash.

>mfw i am an aesthetic man, not even an ethic man, let alone a religious man

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I've never watched this show but heard good things about it. Should I watch it?

nothing wrong with that, unless you're a serial killer or something

GOAT Satan (pun HA)

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Never saw supernatural but what you describe strikes me as the example of why series need to end after a certain point. The risk of being reduced in quality to a caricature is too high.

Don't forget the Finno-Korean hyperwar orchestrated by the pedophiliac interdimensional vampires.

Look upon this tard and laugh

Same. Jesus min/maxed my rpg characters.

Great movie. It and Eraser are hidden Schwarzenegger kino

>Never saw supernatural but what you describe strikes me as the example of why series need to end after a certain point. The risk of being reduced in quality to a caricature is too high.
They ruined it. It's a massacre. A crime against humanity. Unironically greed did this.

First 5 seasons are comfy "buddy cop but actually brothers who hunt demons and shit" kino. Don't watch anything after that.

>777
The gods have spoken.
Latter-season supernatural fags eternally BTFO.
Long live the first 5.

God tried to cancel Earth. But then he felt bad and gave us rainbows.

To clarify what the other user said, the first 5 seasons were a complete story that the creator envisioned and planned from the start. Once that was compete, he left the show because he said it was over, but the network wanted to keep raking in cash so they basically kept the corpse of the show alive using multiple horrible showrunners throughout the years and it's still going to this day thanks to Tumblrinas who sploosh over gay incest fanfic (which they comedically address on the show in like season 3 or 4 I believe).
But yeah, first 5 are honestly a great show if you're into that genre.

Yeah you can you fucking idiot. God knows you're going to sin and he has the power to ensure that you never sin again. BUT by doing so would dishonor the gift of free will and render it pointless. God wants you to be good for goodness sake, from your own volition.

Is the whole business with that 'ultimate evil' chick who wants to fuck one of the brothers from the post season 5? When I read about that it reeked of fanfiction. I was wondering if the post season 5 stuff is just catering to those tumblrista shipping/fanfic types.

why would a god choose to affect destiny? Its irrelevant to them

>Louis Cyphre
>Lucifer

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also the premise that not stopping an evil makes you malevolent presupposes that the specific evil not stopped is the only thing that matters, and that causality doesn't exist.

Who said God can't change destiny? By definition, destiny is whatever God wills.

>removed from the official Bible around year 300
No, that's when they dated the manuscript to.

Dracula needs to take some fucking cues.

>all these picture
>not one person posted the best devil

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I think it was thrown out at the Council of Nicea?
That's where most "apocryphal texts" come from, at least.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The gospel of Judas isn't Apocrypha, it's a Gnostic manuscript that was never canonical in the Christian Church.

It's one of the many manuscripts considered for inclusion in the first "official" bible in 325.

That's not correct, I'm not sure where you've gotten your information from. The council of Nicea simply made official the core Christian texts. Gnostic texts (of which there were more than just the Judas gospel) were never considered. One of their main goals was to try to kill the Gnostic movement because the texts/beliefs were largely incompatible with the core Christian beliefs. Gnosticism was basically the Mormonism of the time.

I don't think the Judas gospel has anything to do with gnosticism.

Also, apparently, the gospel is believed to be much older:
>The newly revealed gospel document, written in Coptic script, is believed to be a translation of the original, a Greek text written by an early Christian sect sometime before A.D. 180.

Drake Cueball

>You do realize the story youre referring to is Paradise Lost, not the bible, right? Theres no "war in heaven" in the bible, that's all medieval fan fiction.
Revelations 12:
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.
5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.
9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

>The name's Drake Chulo, ese!

>The Gospel of Judas is a Gnostic gospel
>en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

Also:
>It is thought to have been composed in the second century by Gnostic Christians, not by Judas, since it contains late-2nd-century theology.

This is a prophecy, not history.

Well the trigger for the war in heaven was Jesus' birth so it was technically history as of 0 AD. The Devil was cast from heaven with the Messiah's birth.

>start a thread asking for movies with Lucifer
>get a severely autistic thread with people arguing the omnipotence of god
Never change Yea Forums

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I thought Revelations was all a future prophecy about the end of the world?

This is unironically the best thread I've seen on this board in weeks. But I enjoy discussions about philosophical issues more than bitching and memeing about movies, so yeah.

he isn't called the lightbringer for nothing

the bible say that they have free will

Revelations are a series of prophetic visions concerning the setup and then execution of the apocalypse. This particular event is the past tense (Jesus's return to heaven = war in heaven = devil being cast out) because it's a part of the setup for the Dragon and the Beast to exist on Earth and play their eventual role in the Apocalypse when it happens.

Angels have demonstrated free will since the Book of Genesis when a bunch of them came down to Earth because they thought that humans were hot and had children with them, which were then rejected as abominations.

There was no year zero. Goes from 1 BC to 1 AD.

I know one of those "abominations". His childhood really did a number on him.

Revelations is the ravings of a lunatic.

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Plot twist: Lucifer didn't rebel against God, that's John Milton's fanfiction.

Second plot twist: Lucifer isn't Satan, Lucifer was a name given to King of Babylonia, Nebuchadnezzar II who destroyed the temple of Solomon and forcibly moved the hebrews to Babylonia.

Interesting, I never realized that.

Pacino is fucking great but
>le devil is a deepthinking humanist
is so fucking cringe and Reddit that it ruined the entire scene

Visitae Interorae Terrae Rectificando Invinies Occultum Lapidem

The wise man carries his possessions within him - Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

actually it goes 1 BC -> 0 DC -> 1 AD (before, during, after)

That's not what that says. It says something like, "Visit the center of the Earth, the Correct way lies hidden in the stones."

Not when I was in Grad school.

youtube.com/watch?v=zW4Geq_CZiQ

based

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Just keep sticking your head in the sand, you'll see. If god is omniscient, he knows everything that has happened, happens and will happen. Knowing this, any evil that happens is either allowed by god or he is unable to prevent it, meaning he is either an evil god or an impotent one.

>not by Judas
No shit.
None of the gospels are written by the characters their named after, you dumb cunt.
Also, Judas comitted suicide. Kind of hard writing books once you're dead.

I like to think it doesn't know what the fuck it is doing most of the time, but enjoy watching the shitstorm. It may even didn't exist before humans and if did, was weak and gained powers or even conscience after observing us, interacting, receiving sacrifices and worship. Like the demiurge comic

grad school is for gays

>implying your subjective concept of evil means a goddamn thing to a fucking God
>implying that free will cannot exist just because God can move through time in ways that we can't
You do know time is relative, right? Time is a perception. Your present is someone else's future, and vice versa. Does that mean there can't be free will? (I'm not saying there can or can't, only that it means the same thing for free will that an omniscient God would mean)

Free will doesn't exist

>finish school
>keep going to school anyway
get a load of this retard

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This. The free will question has nothing to do with God. The idea that we cannot have free will if God is omniscient is brainlet-tier intro to philosophy bullshit. There are all kinds of arguments against it. The bottom line is that there are different concepts of what "free will" actually means, and only one of them is incompatible with God being omniscient.

youtu.be/7DMDscGOUpg

Everything that came from Pacino's mouth in this movie was auditory silk.

> Implying the bible does not lay down examples of evil

dumbass

Yes, free will does not exist if God knows exactly what you will end up doing and knew so when he created you to end up doing that. That's not free will, that's God creating someone to do something. Compatibilism is a brainlet branch of philosophy, always has been

The Gospel of Judas is gnostic bullshit written way after Judas actually died.

>calling others brainlets when you're the biggest brainlet in this thread full of brainlets
get a load of this fag

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Holy shit....the Gospel of Judas is not Apocrypha
God you people are fucking morons

>not even responding to my point
>calling me a dumbass
>calling Compatibilism "a branch of Philosophy"
>dismissing it as "brainlet" without any argument whatsoever
You're the worst kind of stupid person.

>worshipping a kike on a kebab
ishygddt

Lucifer, glad you could make it.

can't respond to a single thing, christcucks make it too easy.

>Was there a better portrayal of Lucifer in a movie?
The Prophecy. Viggo

Try 33 faggots.

>Wrong opinion
based and feedyouyourmothersfeces pilled

>being incapable of understanding theological and philosophical writing, enjoying critical thought whilst also being a fag

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you know shes really a guy in the movie right? Watch it again

Not him, but damn! You biblethumpers never cease to amaze me with your stupidity. You are like my grandmother thinks all psychology knowledge was stolen from the bible. Pick up a history book for once in your life.

Holy shit, how old are you?

Not him, but a no would have sufficed.

>Try 33 faggots
I'll pass, but thanks for the recommendation.

>tfw haven't had sex in 33 faggots
what does that translate to in years?

>300+ replied thread about Satan
>still no 666 get

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keep the cursing. Dont listen to that other faggot.

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the original fedora

People watching it are complete retards, that's why.

the Jews are Henothesitic meaning they chose one god to worship and serve out of a pantheon. Look into Jordan Maxwell

how do you know, oh master of all truths

God told me.

FREE WILL YOU FAGGOTS

This was a good thread. I'm proud to be a part of it.