If he doesn't make an appearance in episode 9, it will be garbage

>schadenfreude of watching anakin character be torn down, demeaned and destroyed
>preserving what little is left of anakin's dignity
Considering the character is hardly beloved Im indifferent to either. Star wars is dead and Im not sure how anyone could think otherwise at this point. Then again, Im sure people said the same in 2002 and here we are still subject to watching disney's monster shamble around for pitiful entertainment. I suppose its undead and will remain as much an unkillable fixture of the entertainment landscape as spiderman or star trek

Clones Wars is coming back and Ewan will be back for the Obi-wan spinoff.

fpbp
/thread

They didn't want to associate with them because of their reputation as hot garbage.
I'm guessing now 9 will be chock full of "hey, remember the prequels?"
"Remember how much less they sucked than the last film we did?"

God I fucking hope so

Holdo Hyper-ram is unironically less lore-breaking than Midichlorians and Anakin's virgin birth.

>implying they have an ability to NOT fuck things up
Dawning on me that only one of the previous trilogies has been ruined thus far & that alone led to well over a year of group therapy threads.
How much longer will ruining the PT drag it out?

You can't fuck up the PT because it already fucked up itself, whatever progressive nonsense that Disney throws into a remake would unironically improve the story so long as they don't fuck up the fundamentals of lore (although to be fairthere's a good chance they could do that too)

At least you can fix the midichlorians shit by introducing Lord plagueis, didn't he manipulate midichlorians to create life and he ended up messing up and created anakin which was the force trying to balance itself again? That sounds kinda cool

There wasn't any screw up other than obviously choosing the wrong chick to turn into Mary.

>They didn't want to associate with them because of their reputation as hot garbage.

Pegg probably trash talked them through out the production of TFA. The "real" SW was back, after all.
And JJ does give off the impression of a typical cliche duologist faggot or at least pretends to be one. He only likes ANH and ESB, hates Ewoks and PT and thinks that Kasdan was the reason OT was good. The whole new trilogy was designed by him and Kasdan as some sort of safety blanket that traumatized SW fags can drape themselves with after all the torture that mean ol' Lucas put them through.

>My theory is that their going to remake the prequels entirely within the next two decades.

I think they'll at least wait for Lucas to die. On the other hand it would by them a lot of good will within a certain part of the fandom.

Attached: The Art of The Force Awakens p016b.jpg (765x189, 89K)

They suck the soul and heart out of everything they touch, just look they've made more than 20 marvel movies and they are all bland and boring, I cannot sit twice through any of them, and I've watched raimis spider man more times that I can count, star wars is destined to that same fate I guess.

>less lore-breaking than Midichlorians
I was always okay with this. It made sense to me since Force power runs in the family, so there's obviously a genetic link of some sort.

Force-ramming have opened a horrible can of worms, though.

>Force-ramming
Hyper*
Fuck.

>The whole new trilogy was designed by him and Kasdan as some sort of safety blanket that traumatized SW fags can drape themselves with after all the torture that mean ol' Lucas put them through
>this became a distraction from the coming all out unlubricated assrape Rian was planning
Practically supervillain tier.

>it would by them a lot of good will
They'd require the ability to learn from mistakes for this to happen.
This is clearly not an ability they possess.

The announcement would buy the good will. St least the likes of Vice, Polygon and Forbes would shill it to the stratosphere. The execution would still, I believe, be horrible.

The thing is, I agree that these are all valid "explanations" for how the force works, but I still feel like it changes the force into something it shouldn't be - namely just another physical process. In the OT, it was strongly suggested that the force was non-physical, mystical, and couldn't be understood through rationality alone. By adding midichlorians in you suddenly make it physical, worldly, and understood through science. That's not really anything "special" then, thats just like, genetic superpowers?

And to be fair, I've tried to "accept" the midichlorians as part of Star Wars too. I've tried to believe the explanations you guys have said, but I just can't get rid of that nagging feeling that "this isn't how the force works." So essentially these days I just reject anything but the OT as being canon.

oh well.

They'd have to have at least not shit all over the OT, let alone done right by it, for PT fans to not howl from the announcement alone at this point.

If PT fans howl, they'll just call them sexist or racist. They have their MO down pat at this point.

That tactic loses effectiveness the more it's used.

>He only likes ANH and ESB, hates Ewoks and PT
a.k.a. he has good taste

It doesnt matter though.
Disney own the franchise - they can do whatever they want. I doubt theyre expecting the people they beat down to go see all their films. Their goal is the milk the franchise dry and move on to the next victim.
Its not as if the average joe gives a fuck and whatever mouthbreathers that still fawn over whatever star wars shits out could hardly be called discerning consumers

They'd just suffer for it, though. The only people that would take their side would be political radicals. The bigger part of the fandom would end up shunning them for their hollow arguments and unscrupulous tactics, as we're already seeing now.

i thought midichlorians were microscopic bugs that fed on the Force.

Well, they haven't showed the ability to learn from mistakes yet.

Attached: Kao Cen Darach and Satele Shan vs Lord Vindican and Malgus.webm (1000x562, 2.96M)

>In the OT, it was strongly suggested that the force was non-physical, mystical, and couldn't be understood through rationality alone.
It was an energy field created by all living beings.

t. Obi Wan

I feel old when I watch things like this because it makes me feel ill. Maybe I only like long boring movies because Im too old to keep up with the whizz wazz zoom zoom sparky flashy entertainment has become.
It isnt even because its so fast I cant tell what is happening. I just find it horribly unpleasant what with the camera wobbling all over the place.
Maybe I'd appreciate it with a less obnoxious camera.

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>"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"

- Yoda

I'm going to make this very clear.

The only way to salvage Luke is by having Anakin in IX.

Make the fact that Luke turned Vader back to the light matter and have Anakin do something that matters.

This way it comes full circle.

As it stands Luke should have fucking died early on and the galaxy was better off with Vader and Sidious ruling ...

>Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy that surrounds us, and binds us.

Since when has life necessarily been physical?

>That's not really anything "special" then, thats just like, genetic superpowers?
youtube.com/watch?v=CzFHwoALeYg

There was no saving it after tfa faggot

Since biology.

Yeah, just like how a "royalty" is strong in a family of pure-blooded royals. Doesn't mean these people are somehow "genetically" more "royal" though.

Irrelevant. That quote states
>It's energy
It's a form of energy that's created by non-magical life.

Yes, that totally explains why both Yoda and Obi Wan's bodies break the laws of biology by vanishing as soon as they die and they come back as non-biological ghosts, hmmm

this

Attached: solo-star-wars-darth-maul.jpg (646x431, 49K)

Not that guy but that's not how royalty works. A more apt comparison would be various magical bloodlines or genetic from Harry Potter to X-Men. Royalty doesn't exist non-socially unless you're implying things like Queen Bees who do have their objectively genetic differences.

No, the point is that ALL life is magical. That's why being surrounded by life in it's purest form - untouched by unliving machinery and techhnology - is what gave Dagobah such a strong presence with the force.

Never saw Solo. Forgot that they did this

First off, if you imply that their bodies vanishing is thanks to the force, it implies a direct connection between the force and their biology.

Secondly, what "laws" of biology is this? If we're talking midichlorians, this could be anywhere from their bodies spontaneously disintegrating due to them or any other excuse.

Finally, they treat death as becoming "one with the force", thus they go from physical bodies to energy. They become one with the energy they created according to

All life creates this energy which binds the universe. That's it. They're luminous because they constantly create this energy.

More like mass-energy equivalence happening and their bodies all becoming energy. In fact, if you study physics, matter is more or less highly concentrated energy.
>Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter
He's talking about energy, Notice the word matter? Matter and energy.

>Secondly, what "laws" of biology is this?
When you die, your body doesn't just disappear. All the physical bones, organs, skin, etc. stays there, slowly decomposing, being eaten away by maggots / air / the earth / whatever else, being absorbed back in the material matrix that they came from.

When Yoda and Obi-Wan died, this didn't happen. Their bodes literally vanished in an instant, defying all laws of physics. Not only that, but they come back as non-physical force ghosts, clearly unbounded to the need to have a physical body. The only way this would be possible is if the force is a non-physical thing, which is what the Force was strongly implied to be.

Yes, and it creates this field because all life is magical.

>Their bodes literally vanished in an instant, defying all laws of physics.
They became energy. Plain and simple. Mass-energy equivalence isn't a violation.

That's not a law of biology. A corpse can be burnt, ground into dust, etc.

Vanishing in an instant isn't a violation of physics if it's converted to some other form. Judging by 's post, they get transformed into energy, thus the force.

What does luminous energy look like? Remember: You just said Yoda was making an energy/matter distinction, so it can't be "special matter."

It might not violate the first law of thermodynamics but its sure as fuck violating zeroth

I'll present to you the same question as in - what does non-material luminous energy look like?

>Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter
He's making a distinction between matter and energy. There's this Force which binds the galaxy together. It's an energy field. It doesn't need to be visible.
It's the Force. They become the Force. One with the Force. That simple.

Nu Wars doesn't DESERVE Hayden or Ewan.

>being surrounded by life in it's purest form - untouched by unliving machinery and techhnology - is what gave Dagobah such a strong presence with the force.
It is? I don't remember anything about that. Dagobah was just being Dagobah, it wasn't a special Force point not because it was an uninhabited world.
It's not like the Kashyyyk was a Force hotspot compared to Coruscant

This sounds like pure headcanon.

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It looks like any other energy. Can you see heat, sound or any other form of energy? Not detect, I mean visually. This isn't "special matter", it's just a special type of force energy that doesn't exist IRL.

Luke talks about Darth Sidious and the Clone Wars and in both TFA and TLJ they used music from the Prequels for Snoke's theme music. As well as Maul in Solo and in Rebels so no. Disney has realized the Sequels are not able to do anything on their own without pandering back on the Originals and Prequels. That's why they revived Clone Wars for at least one more season, and that's why all the new expansion content the less 6 months on Nu Front 2 is Prequel stuff (Obi-Wan, Grievous, Dooku, Anakin, Genosis, more and more Clone Trooper legion colors and skins, etc...)

The Force was always intended to have a material component, because Star Wars is all about hybridizing fantasy and scifi, and in scifi, "psychic powers" are material. It's also an implicit rejection of strict dualism, as part of the eastern aesthetics of the series: the material and the spiritual aren't the same but they echo each other. This is why Jedi meditate and practice complex techniques, why Sith inevitably ends up physically fucked up, and why he felt the need to include Midichlorians.

Reminder that Yoda straight up tells you in ESB that life created the Force, like some kind of galactic gestalt. It's not an external God

youtube.com/watch?v=tp5x6qJcE6A

>It doesn't need to be visible.
Yeah, but that's exactly what midichlorians do. They "visualise" the Force in a way it didn't need to do.

The good thing in Lucas Star Wars with the Darth Plagueis book had a nice retcon, or not even a retcon, a direct explination on the midicholorians relationship with the Force. People assumed from what was said in Episode I that the Midicholorians create the Force and why if some people have them or more of them then others, that's how they can become Force-Users. In Luceno's book, which he had help from Lucas indirectly on, it was stated the Midicholorians are ATTRACTED to people or beings with higher concentrations of the Force, not that they create the Force.

>it's just a special type of force energy that doesn't exist IRL.
Oh but it does user, and that's why when Lucas added midichlorians into Star Wars he destroyed so much of what intuitively drew people to it in the first place.

I'm not going to pretend like I know what this force "is", but it's clear there's something "else" in the universe, something that can't be explained by science or empiricism alone. Even if Lucas never tried to say the Force could be explained by midichlorians alone, that's more or less the direct impression he gave in TPM and ROTS, which is why so many people disliked those films IMO.

They don't visualize anything. Midichlorians are used the same way litmus paper detects pH or a thermometer detects heat.

This, the book explains the Force creates midicholorians, not the other way around. I did like how the whole lore in the old canon was that Anakin was indirectly created by the Force in a response to Sidious and Plagueis trying to manipulate the balance of the Force to turn it fully to the dark side.

We can't see energy but we can use tools to measure energy. That simple. The force is just another kind of energy in star wars.

>the book explains the Force creates midicholorians, not the other way around
When was it anyway different?

It didn't deserve Hamill or any of the OT characters either. Alas, the Mouse is powerful.

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>It's the Force. They become the Force. One with the Force. That simple.
Im happy with that answer as I dont see why it should be bound by physics at all. To me, its better that it isnt.

>he destroyed so much of what intuitively drew people to it in the first place
A hero's journey which pays homage to numerous Westerns, Samurai films and history?

Im not convinced youve got a sound basis in physics.

Because casuals and brainlets thought the Midicholorians were the reason the Force existed from the little exposition scene with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon measuring Anakin's Midicholorian count. The book makes it explicitly not the case.

If you went back in time to when Jesus was around, and carried with you a "God-o-meter", that detected how much of "God" was in someone, would you go up to Jesus to see if he reached "100%" on the God-o-meter?

Now, I'm not even saying I believe Jesus is God, I don't, and I think the biblical narrative of him is fake, but the point is that the story we have of Jesus - being born miraculously, preaching his message, dying on the cross and thten resurrecting - is a very powerful story that resonates with a lot of people, even if they don't necessarily believe it's true.

But that's basically what George Lucas did with the Star Wars story and Luke Skywalker. Instead of leaving the source of Luke's powers this vague, interesting "thing" (the same way the source of Jesus' powers was "God"), he instead went back and tried to say "actually, this "thing" has defined rules and regulations." It kills so much of the mystique of the story, and I think is why a lot of people resonate with the story of the OT than they do with the story of the PT.

Of course, you're free to disagree with me, but this is just my take on the whole thing.

Energy is bound by physics. It's just another special snowflake type of energy with its own rules.

Which Westerns and Samurai films have tiny microbes determining each character's power level?

If we had a meter that goes up every time we witness a supernatural occurrence, which can be as simple as a button we press at every miracle, we'd have exactly that. Person #1 has 0 miracles. Person #2 has 10. I'm inclined to say #2 is more miraculous.

Alec Guiness died almost two decades ago user, I'm sorry.

It's energy. Not a physics defying thing. You compare a physics-defying thing with something that's another form of special snowflake energy.

see
There arent really many types of energy. Your force must be some sort of potential energy jedi can turn into other forms but that doesnt explain how something like their mind trick works.
Its much much easier (and I think better) to just say
>the force is pretty much magic right
>magic but in space like

if he makes an appearance Star Wars is truly dead.

Completely random but I thought it was one of the coolest things when the movie ends and you see young anakin/Vader. Had no idea who it was till I read about it. (This was when i was a kid.)

>Christopher Lee died almost 4 years ago exactly

It was already dead when Driver became the Chuuni Darth Vader of the Sequels. And Hayden is cool.

But then they wouldn't be miracles then, would they? The point of a miracle is that they can't be explained through regular thought alone, they can only be understood by witnessing them yourself and "feeling" them. I mean, I guess you could TRY to "measure" miracles, but idk, that just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it does for other people.

But the Force *literally defies physics* though. Luke pulls a lighsaber towards him using only his mind, as does Yoda with a sunken x-wing. How do midichlorians account for that? How do they account for Yoda being able to bend the laws of physics to his will using his mind alone?

Then you managed to interpret it completely wrong. In the OT, it was described as
>It's an energy field created by all living things.
>It's energy surrounds us and binds us
It's been described as a form of energy by all the the Jedi who taught Luke. Not one of them denied that it was energy that life created. Next, Luke tells Leia that it's strong in their family based on their blood relations. It was never detached from the physical world the same way a biblical story meant to show how powerful a figure is by shattering normal conventions was.

Easily answered. The Force doesn't defy physics, it exists between all things according to Yoda. If it feels like being converted to kinetic energy, so be it. If it feels like being converted to lighting, okay cool.

>But the Force *literally defies physics* though. Luke pulls a lighsaber towards him using only his mind, as does Yoda with a sunken x-wing. How do midichlorians account for that? How do they account for Yoda being able to bend the laws of physics to his will using his mind alone?
These are the easy cases. You can just say jedi manipulate some 'force energy' potential in their midicholorians to create actual mechanical force but that doesnt do anything to explain how obi wan does jedi mind tricks

I too want Alec Guinness to make an appearance and call out nuWars as the fairy tale rubbish that it is. He's dead though.

Ok, sure, you COULD say those things, but then I'd ask, isn't it more powerful to instead say "Jedi can defy the laws of physics just based on their will alone?" What's the need for the middle-man of some random microscopic microbes? Why does the magic "need" to be explained?

see The Force is a fictional type of energy that exists between all things in the galaxy. Yoda says it binds the galaxy together. Next, you also lack an understanding of how fallible science can be, noting that our best theories today aren't as rock-solid as a mathematical proof. The idea of a previously undiscovered third figure is more plausible than judging the Force on those grounds.

The physics of Star Wars work different than ours. Simple as that. We have no Force, they do. To claim that the characters are inaccurate in their description of the Force as energy based on our universe with no Force is shaky ground at best.
Star Wars is not about who can blow up the most galaxies with magic.

I'm so, so sad at what Star Wars has become. And I used to be a fucking massive fan growing up. I mean, I know what an Ugnaught is for christs sake

>Star Wars is not about who can blow up the most galaxies with magic.
I mean, the OT was more or less exactly that.

>"actually, this "thing" has defined rules and regulations."
I would honestly consider that a good thing. Because then the Force is less of a "does whatever the plots needs" and more of a coherent thing.

The Force is clearly hereditary in the original trilogy, which means yes, it is passed on by something in your blood. Whether that's DNA or midichlorians, it really doesn't matter. It's a non-issue. All they did was name it.

"Power is strong in my family." I'm sure those exact words have been uttered, in our world. Can power be "quantified" with DNA / midichlorians?

So the force isnt a potential nor any sort of energy we can even comprehend. Why not call it magic at this point?

How does manipulating energy convince stormtroopers that these arent the droids theyre looking for? Are you suggesting that obi wan actually manipulates all the chemical processes going on in the stormtrooper's brain? Dont you suppose that to be a little far fetched? At that point the jedi are literally Gods capable of doing fucking anything because that is just about as much a precise, complicated and misunderstood process as there is and moving an x wing is fucking peanuts compared to it. Its a miracle the storm trooper didnt just flop over and die right then. Honestly, if they can manipulate the brain's processes like this then why even bother with force lightning when you could probably just stop their heart beating or fry a few wires in their brain and leave them drooling and gormless.
Again, why not just call it magic and save yourself a ridiculous trouble?

It was more with technology. The EU was more like that.

And saddly, for every original, long time SW fans giving up on this dying franchise, the PT creates new one ready to call "manbabies" anyone who dares expressing their disagreement wih the franchise's direction.

I hate every single character in ST.
At this point I want Vader to come back even if fucking Jake Lloyd plays him.

I really do pity you poor fanboys so determined to cling to false hope that they actually think Hayden could come back.

Disney will never ever bring him back. Mark my words. It would be a tacit admission that people like the prequels better than their own movies. If I were them, that would just be unacceptable.

It's not. It's energy which life created that does all this. You say
>we comprehend
but those in-universe have very thorough understandings of how it works. Also, your description below can be applied to numerous IRL things. If we described the abilities of our technology, like world-wide communication in seconds, curing deadly deseases, or nuclear weaponry to people centuries ago, they might thing we're doing magic.

Well, technology on one level, but on a deeper level it was the force. The Rebels didn't win because they had superior guns, they won because Luke was so confident in the Light Side of the Force that he allowed himself to face the Dark Side by tempting Vader and the Emperor with his power.

with his power, thus making themselves vulnerable to the Rebel's attack**

J.J did say that it will tie in all the trilogies

>Ewan is happy and eager to play Obi-Wan again
>Obi-Wan is emasculated, inept, overshadowed by some strong black woman jedi sidekick
>Ewan fundamentally disagrees with the director's vision of his character, but can't do anything
>Obi-Wan drinks green milk from a tit
>Ewan is depressed

Please, no. Not again. They can't keep getting away with it.

>Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke...
>You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The Force is strong in my family. My father has it...I have it...and...my sister has it.
If by Power you mean electrical power, instead of an abstract social thing, maybe then it'd make sense.

Why can't that energy be magical?

Replace "power" with "charisma", or "wisdom", or literally any other abstract noun.

>>Luke, wisdom runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke...
>You're wrong, Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. Wisdom is strong in my family. My father has it...I have it...and...my sister has it.

Granted, I admit that the wording is a little off, and yet another reason to consider ROTJ the weakest of the OT, but saying "and my sister has the Force" doesn't necessarily have to mean the Force is a physical thing.

>The last thing Episode 9 needs is more throwbacks

I'm not sure the present is good enough to be salvageable. Perhaps Star Wars always requires throwbacks to be successful.

Perhaps everyone involved (from fans to Lucas to Disney) completely misjudged the critical importance of the original trilogy cast and characters.

Dunno. Star Wars is dead to me.

It's a virtually omnipresent form of energy that is created by life, affects and is affected by life, and more. To call it magic would practically say everything is magic as the Force is between everything.

>To call it magic would practically say everything is magic
Maybe in Star Wars, everything is magic?

If wisdom is genetic, and directly, not indirectly, affects the universe, and is a thing in the physical world, maybe.

Pic related said that while he wasn't a fan of the saga he recognized the character he was signed on to portray in '9.' What is the one character who someone who isn't a SW fan would know of? Vader, of course.

Pic related is your Ghost Vader/Anakin.

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youtube.com/watch?v=A8I9pYCl9AQ

I'd rather mouse didn't rape the main character of the entire fucking saga

If everything is magic then it includes all the technology, all the rocks, everything to the point where being magic is the norm rather than exceptional. It's a hardly meaningful title.

So to use your same logic:

A.
>Force = not magic
>Force = everything
>.:. Everything = not magic

B.
>(Everything = magic) = (everything = not magic)
>.:. magic = not magic

Therefore, the Star Wars universe is still magic, no?

And I think that's the point Yoda was trying to get across, even the rocks and shrubs and trees were magical.
Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean everyone can tap into this magic though, as we see instead that it takes years of study and discipline to be able to connect with and utilise it. It's the same idea that's found in old tales, where magic exists, but the only way to use it is to go through lots of trials / disciplines to harness it

There really is nothing 9 can do to clean things up and not make it seem tremendously obvious. The worst part is how JJ plays down how definitive his plans were before Rian threw everything out the door.

If Yoda claims that "size doesn't matter", why don't Jedi fling galaxies at each other.

youtube.com/watch?v=1asxHpewYi8

Because it's not like the force just lets whoever finds out about it however they want, plus there's also the Dark Side of the Force, which is shown to be an impediment to a Jedi's understanding of the Force (which would obviously limit their ability to use it)

According to the description>But then they wouldn't be miracles then, would they? The point of a miracle is that they can't be explained through regular thought alone, they can only be understood by witnessing them yourself and "feeling" them. I mean, I guess you could TRY to "measure" miracles, but idk, that just doesn't sit right with me. Maybe it does for other people.
The fact that this energy is so common, so explainable, it is not miraculous. Next, judging by saying
>non-physical, mystical, and couldn't be understood through rationality alone
The Force does not qualify given the amounts of rational knowledge of the Force by the characters who teach about it.

In other words, the Force would not be miraculous or anything special at all. It's a case of magic being mundane and not standing out in the slightest. It's the most natural and non-supernatural magic.

>Disney seems to be trying to distance themselves as much as possible from them.

Only because their shitty movies rely on interest in the OT more than the PT.