What makes her a mary sue?

Yeah fuckboy, when did Luke ever have to struggle or take damage?
>b-buh he lost his hand and the emperor zapped him a bit
Wow, something immediately undone and that had no lasting effect!

Eat shit, faggot.

All of the good characters instantly love her. Finn, BB8, Han, Chewie, Leia, and Yoda. None of them knew anything about her, but they all instantly treated her like she was the greatest person they ever met.

She had never flown a spaceship, but could instantly dogfight multiple TIE fighters on her first flight.

She had never fired a gun, but could instantly bullseye trained stormtroopers over and over, with no cover.

She had never used the force, but could instantly mind trick people.

She had never even ignited a lightsaber, but could instantly out-duel and out-force a trained jedi that could stop laser bolts in midair.

She could beat the jedi master after her first fight with the apprentice.

She was a master of fighting many enemies at once.

She could hit 3 tie fighters with one shot of a gun turret despite zero training or experience.

She could move and control a mountain of rocks, without even paying attention or focusing, despite the former ancient jedi master struggling to slowly move one, or sometimes a couple of things.

Rey never struggles, is better than everyone at anything for no reason. All the good people love her for no reason, and all the bad people hate her for no reason. She is a non character. It takes overcoming obstacles to create character. Even godlike characters, like Neo, Superman, or even Luke, got where they were over time and struggle. Rey had everything instantly with no effort.

>his uncle wouldn't let him do what he wanted. He was miserable
>he lost his uncles droids
>he would have died to sand people if obi wan hadn't saved him
>he would have died in the bar if obi wan hadn't saved him
>he had trouble figuring out how to use the force to predict laser blasts
>he needed lots of help from obi wan, han, chewie, leia, and the droids, or he would have died on the death star
>Struggled a lot to destroy the death star, needed help from wingman, han, and a ghost
>got captured by a snow beast. would have died if not for han
>copilot dies and he gets shot down.
>struggles when being trained by yoda. fails multiple times
>life is changed and he goes through one of the biggest struggles in a movie, ever, when he learns that his dad is a mass murdering dictator. Would have died if not for his sister
>faces one of the other great emotional struggles faced by a movie character when he is tempted by the dark side and the emperor.
>runs out of green milk in his bottle, leading to grumpyness

Luke is a heroic character. Rey is a Mary Sue. Both are fictional constructs (for the most part), but that's where the difference ends. Heroic characters generally end up being the most victorious, most powerful, and most wonderful. Mary Sue's get to that point, and usually exceed it, for no reason at all. There are real life alalogies to heroism, but none to Mary Sue-ism, therefore it's a weak story device, because only delusional people can identify with it.

Luke had a shitty training montage where he did one flip with Yoda on his back. That is all. I don't know why people pretend like this was some extended and hard training.

He was there for months. Irwin Kershner said it. It took a while for Han to reach Cloud City without the hyperdrive and then they fucked around there for awhile not giving a fuck about 3PO. All that time Luke trained.

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Lay off the sóy milk

shes perfect from the start, has all the answer, never learns anything and always ends in a better position
compare to Alita, who had to remeber her powers, re-learn to use them, get btfo, learn and got better, all the while being cute, positive and nurturing to the men in her life
thats how you write a strong female character

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You seriously would need to pay me to fuck her, Mr. Mangina.

If they follow the manga Alita has a shitton of suffering to do still as well.

The term was legitimately coined by a woman.

Wrong. He lifted rocks and his droid, too. His failure to lift the xwing taught him that no difficulty is too great for the force, and helped him realize that even Vader could be saved. His failure in the cave led to his later failure when fighting Vader for the first time. He kept thinking he could defeat Vader under his own power.

And yes, the training time was too short. That doesn't make the ST any better. The flaws of the originals (there are plenty), don't stop the sequels from being some of the worst movies ever made.

Bad writing that lets the character get constant convenient success in the face of circumstances that strain disbelief.

I'd mary that sue, if you know what I mean!

I assume the reason this defines Eragon as a MS is the author self-insertion clause? After all Eragon is a pretty big fuck up and not particularly skillful or powerful, or well-liked even.

Not to mention there's approximately a year between the end of Empire and Jedi which he obviously spent honing his skills.

The left got so fucking mad about being called cucks they drove their own insult into the ground.

Really? I'd fuck her for free if offered, and I don't really find her attractive. I just wouldn't turn down free pussy so long as no strings are attached.

The left drives everything into the ground.

>recieves no force training despite no matter how talented anyone in the star wars universe was they had to go through training

>has no (real) flaws

>(((plot))) works for her no dramatic tension

>is surrounded by terrible characters reliant on her

>exists to be a vessel for projection

>any negative opinion is automatically swiped aside by childish character assasination by people who dont know what a mary sue is

>got his hand chopped off
>was nearly electrocuted to death
>no big deal

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There’s hours of material already presented on this subject

I WANT TO BYPASS HER PANTIES

Luke lost every lightsaber battle he ever fought, losing his hand in one and almost getting electrocuted in another

Let’s use a very generic definition of Mary Sue and say it is a character that comes off as almost a fan fiction like self insert that has
>No discernible flaws
>A universe existing around her all to her benefit. Such as plot, characters, and even setting going out of there way to benefit her
>Every character in the galaxy likes her or likely loves her, and those who don’t die rapidly and still remark on her being special
>The only people who don’t like her are jealous of her or just pure evil
Does any of that sound like Rey?

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He was so devastated after losing his hand and knowing the truth about his father he tried to kill himself in despair

?
Luke beat Vader in round 2. This isn't even debatable.

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You're a retard, otherwise you wouldn't need to ask that question.

And then afterwards he still fell into Vader's trap. Stop trying, you suck at it.

>he did one flip with Yoda on his back
Pffft.

>Yoda tests Luke by making him attempt to lift his x-wing (he fails)
>Yoda explains to Luke what the force is, and explains the Dark Side while Luke goes through physical training
>Luke is tested again when he enters the dark cave and faces "Vader"
>Yoda teaches Luke concentration and Force use while balancing on Luke's foot (Luke fucks up)
>More training again, without actually standing on Luke (Luke has a vision and loses concentration again)
And despite all that, Luke isn't a proper kickass jedi until the third movie, after even more off-screen training.

Now Rey:
>Luke shows her what the Force is
>Luke tells her why the jedi suck
And then she proceeds to board the Supremacy and kill Snoke's personal bodyguards.

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>kill Snoke's personal bodyguards

Not that impressive when you think about it. Did you see that one guard just go spinning away? I think Snoke hired Broadway dancers as his guards.

so since rey's not from a literal fanfic.net story and not based on jew jew abrams she doesn't count? Do people forget that words can change meaning over time?

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>luke beat vader in round 2

But he wasent only fighting vader round 2

If his antagonist didint decide to save him from sidious he would be dead

If he was a mary sue there wouldve been a round 2 anyway and even if there was he wouldve lost

What an absolute bait tier argument

>she's british
>mary is a british name

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Lol I geuss standards change

Luke didn't fight Sheev with a lightsaber. Ergo, it wasn't a lightsaber battle. The only lightsaber battle that happened was Luke vs. Vader, which he won.

Yeah mate, Jesus' mum was from Croydon. Saw them three wise men down the chippy again.

i still dont know what she wants

By that logic Shinji from Eva and also 90% of harem anime protags are Gary Stus.

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>THIS is a 10/10 Aryan specimen according to white people

I'm just going off what the image says. It says Eragon is a mary sue, but the only box he really checks is author self-insert.

Also of course harem anime protags are Gary Stus. That fucker from TLR is the epitome of a gary stu.

"Mary Sue" is a vague shit-ass blanket term. It's because of this misconception that people now have a problem with any character without an arc, while that is not a requirement at all.

The problems with Rey are as follows:
1. In her very first few scenes there's a lot of characterization through visuals - her cleaning scraps and her shitty daily life, her impulsive decisions to help BB-8 and not sell him for food, her playing with toys similar to Luke. That was a very good and promising setup that was thrown out of the window as soon as she escaped with Finn and started to take action. There was no more character moments from that point for her, she became a bland, robotic video-game protagonist who follows plot because things happen that cause her to.
2. Rey breaks the established rules of Star Wars universe. Both her and the kid from TLJ who force-pulled a broom or whatever he did. You have to be born Force-sensitive AND to have a shit ton of training. She's born to some nobodies and haven't trained a second of her life, and yet her powers are just plot conveniently strong enough to resolve anything - which wouldn't be that bad if there was some in-universe reason. For instance, Anakin was Jesus'd into existence with the Force so that's why he has potential or something... Nothing like that was established for Rey.
3. Rey is a character restricted by the movie's agenda. She can't be struggling with emotions, she can't have a vulnerability, she can't be impulsive, she can't lose a fight, she can't be hurt, she can't be feminine. They won't allow that. She doesn't even have her own identity or personality. Even her lightsaber and spaceship aren't hers. Even her introduction is one-for-one routine of Luke and Anakin. She's uncreative.
4. Rey is a static character who is shoved into a story of a positive arc character - Hero's Journey. She's meant to replace Luke because 7 is a copy of 4. There's nothing wrong with static characters in general, though.

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The fact that people b8, and generally can't make a competent argument against the crisicism of her character. Compare her to an actual decently written character like Kylo and the difference is night and day. The only interesting thing about Rey was her crisis of identity was which more or less completely worked out in the TLJ, so they effectively made a character that was already incredibly boring even more boring.

>actual decently written character like Kylo

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>shes perfect from the start, has all the answer, never learns anything
Those are traits of a Static Character, otherwise known as Flat Arc Character.
And there's nothing wrong with that. If the character had their development in a prior backstory and is compelling.
Rey is not compelling and she doesn't have a backstory.

>his enemy disarmed him therefore it wasent a lightsaber battle

What a non-argument, my point still stands it was a 2 v 1 and he lost, if he was a mary sue he wouldve.

He only knows how to fight with a lightsaber and his enemy disarmed him whether he "beat" vader or not

Kylo was written separately by different people who also had their own different ideas.
In his first appearance, he's calm and collected and menacing to ape off of Vader. Then, he becomes an angry impulsive child-like crazy villain who smashes walls in anger. Then, he becomes conflicted, faux-deep vague guy.
And then, in The Last Ruin Johnson Film, he allies with Rey and kills his master only to then turn back on her - no reason other than to trick the audience. Really shit writing.

So Kylo appears complex on the surface, but in reality, he just doesn't make a lick of sense.

Meant for

>disarmed him
>Luke voluntarily tossed away his saber and refused to fight anymore

Just stop. This is fucking embarrassing and I'm starting to feel sorry for you. Not to mention the original comment I replied to hereliterally says "Luke lost every lightsaber battle he ever fought."
This is demonstrably false, and I have already demonstrated it. His fight with Vader and the Emperor are separate, and his fight with the Emperor doesn't even involve lightsabers in any form. They at no point double team Luke beyond the Emperor cackling at him.

Don't forget that she ends up teaching and scolding Luke about perseverance, friendship, redemption and being good. She teaches Luke fucking Skywalker about this.
Also don't forget that her only character motivation is that she's so morally righteous that she wants to solve everyones problems and is so humble that she would refuse Han Solo's request to have her as his successor
Also don't forget that she fixes the Millennium falcon when Han didn't know what to do
Also don't forget that characters like Chewbacca get shafted in favor of her. Chewie is still Co-Pilot, gets ignored by Leia in favor of Rey at the end of 7 and Rey is the focus when Han dies.

See, all of these problems do not directly stem from the fact that she is static.

I haven't watched TLR yet, but from what I've seen in other haremshit the protags come off as painfully average rather than super special (except for having girls flock to them for no reason) despite being a self-insert for the audience.

The World only God knows is the same deal. The thing about harem anime is it's a comedy, so stuff like that doesn't really impact the story, and is played for laughs where it works fine.

i don't like the argue about if she fits the definition or not, it get pedantic and misses the point. she's bland, unrelatable and is played by a block of wood.

Name one flaw.
Checkmate, atheists

The bait is strong with this one

youtu.be/ZGFohrfoNP8

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>word was made by incels for TLJ

Hahahahh loook at this dooooood

Imagine being so in love with that garbage fire

Lack of character development or quality character development.

Yes.

How are people just so blind to her doing this.... I have a sneaking suspicion that most on this thread are baits or have a sub 80 iq.

Every success she has can be boiled down to “the force” and that’s literally exactly what happened to Luke. If she’s a Mary Sue because of convenient writing, then so is Luke.

Teehee ^ bump

>How are people just so blind

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Look at her strain!!!!!

>I have a sneaking suspicion that most on this thread are baits
Welcome to 4channel!

Except Luke had to practice.

>Kylo kills his father without a second thought
>Completely has no issue just trying to bring Rey to the dark side and not going from the start trying to kill her in their duel
The fact that characters who are established having no history or connection with Rey almost universally taking an immediate liking to her is telling of a Sue style character.

Kylo has to try and turn her cause Vader tried to turn Luke. It's like poetry you see, it rhymes.

I'm joking btw.

Have sex

Thank you sensei, I must be more vigilant against the true heretics

based Alita poster

It's honestly like something out of "they live" ... all of them just so brainwashed they start up the mental gymnastics without any prepping

>Don't forget that she ends up teaching and scolding Luke about perseverance, friendship, redemption and being good. She teaches Luke fucking Skywalker about this.

And Luke didn’t scold Yoda and Obi-Wan in ESB and ROTJ about their jaded bullshit?

>Also don't forget that her only character motivation is that she's so morally righteous that she wants to solve everyones problems and is so humble that she would refuse Han Solo's request to have her as his successor

And Luke wants to to the same, he even rejects Obi-Wan’s offer to leave because he’s loyal to his uncle. Not the same but similar.

>Also don't forget that she fixes the Millennium falcon when Han didn't know what to do

Imagine you have a car that you haven’t driven in years. Since then, someone fucked with it. Don’t you think that if you were to drive it again, you’d be unfamiliar with it and the most recent owner would know what’s wrong with it more than you?

>Also don't forget that characters like Chewbacca get shafted in favor of her. Chewie is still Co-Pilot, gets ignored by Leia in favor of Rey at the end of 7 and Rey is the focus when Han dies.

Maybe because she’s the main character now and they’re all side/secondary characters now?

The nigga blew up the Death Star without a targeting computer.

Most noticeably gaining skills and abilities she has no reason or explanation to have. Things like skills with a lightsaber sufficient enough to someone who's spent his life training, extensive knowledge for piloting and fixing spaceships, high level force abilities, swimming, speaking wookie, etc. Growing up as a scavenger is an excuse for a basic skillset, but does not remotely justify the level of expertise she demonstrates in everything. And saying the force wills it is just lazy writing. On top of that she rarely makes mistakes that have any sort of consequence and never develops as a character because she's already so good.

More importantly the universe revolves around her. A droid with a map to Luke Skywalker just happens to be found by her and she just happens to find the millennium falcon. Finn loves her right off the bat. Chewie likes her. Han wants her to be his co-pilot. Leia loves her. Kylo becomes obsessed with her from the moment they meet. Snoke acknowledges her skill and she inspires Luke Skywalker. Every character involves her in their motivations. Mary Sue is an often misused term, but she fits the bill in every single way.

>>Filter dodging this hard

Drink some bleach and put yourself out of our misery already.

Touch my hard pay pay

All of the good guys immediately like her when they meet her. Of all people, why would Leia send some random stranger to get Luke

You know all those ranking lists where people rank TFA over TPM and AOTC. Some OT fags are literally to have a Mary Sue of the calibre described here, than to have some kinda bad romance scenes/annoying character that are over with quick in an otherwise brilliant movie.

Honestly TFA is so horricly bad. If TFA is anywhere but the bottom of your ranking, you aren't even worth listening too. Rey is a complete non character and she dominates the film, every fucking second is about a complete non character. How can Jar Jar's 10 minutes of screen time, or the 10 mins of romance scenes in the PT be worse than fucking Rey.

Read the rest of the image you fucking baka.

no u

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She's too boring. Who wastes time on such a flat character.

She can be the force itself. And I wouldn't give a shit.

this bitch has nothing captain mary sue, holy shit what a god awful character and movie.

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Get some reading comprehension you fucking baka. That is just one of the qualities that make a Mary Sue.

Rey is the biggest sue out there. And are you saying Rey isn't KK or Kiri Hart's self insert?

Go away incel you've got thirty other threads you can shit up. We're talking about MaRey Sue here.

TOO QT

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If The Last Jedi was competently written then her inexpicable mastery of everything in Force Awakens would explained through some backstory and she would lose to Kylo Ren who had gained new powers and training to become a greater threat than the person she beat already so that when IX came out and they had their duel it would be a triumphant victory over a powerful villain and her struggles would be validated instead of Kylo just jobbing to her once again.

>bare midriff
Can't deny the hotness of that.

She's not necessarily a mary sue, but she's a flat character that never gets challenged in any significant way.

You're a fatty, look at that hand

Good at everything, never a sense of danger or her failing, very boring and uninteresting.

Lol sure.

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absolutely true, Rey is stronger than most characters in the new trilogy. I mean I was kinda bored by her character. I don't care if she is literally god, I just want to be interested in her journey. She is just inconsistent, no real goals, no sort of strong character trait that makes you identify Rey.