I can roll with luke deciding to abandon the force...

>Keep in mind Disney rejected George Lucas treatments to make this shit instead
"The Midichlorian Trilogy" would've been just as terrible for entirely different reasons.
The ONLY thing it would've had over the garbage we got is it likely wouldn't have ruined Luke.

>tfw you will never watch JJ's version of The Last Jedi

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JJ wanted the same shit for Luke, he just didn't have the balls to do it to Luke himself.

Because the script was written by an idiot who doesn't know shit about star wars or it's lore/characters. It's that simple and there's nothing further to discuss

pretty much this combined with this basically they trusted Kennedy to do things right and after TFA they probably were like OK things will be fine but her true plan was to make them comfortable by playing the first movie safe and then destroying starwars because she's a bitter spiteful bitch who Lucas probably pumped and dumped

Because Ryan needed some forced conflict to happen and he had no idea that RotJ existed.

Because Luke is wracked with guilt over almost murdering his nephew in his sleep he thinks Luke Skywalker will only cause more harm than good. You know how everyone says "that's not muh Luke Skywalker, Luke would NEVER EVER consider doing something like that!" well, that's exactly how Luke himself feels.

He is also unaware of the full extent of what has happened, as he has been cut off from the Force for almost a decade.

>God I hate women so much

Because JJ thought it would be clever to turn Luke in a MacGuffin. Rian getting more abuse than JJ = a monument to incel stupidity

Lucas dropped midichlorians as soon as fans expressed a dislike for them. Lucas dropped Darth Jar Jar as soon as fans expressed a dislike for him. Lucas dropped the romance plot as soon as fans expressed a dislike for it.

The first movie would've sucked but Lucas has always listened to his fans, and always had them first and foremost on his mind when making the movies. One out of context quote from behind the scenes footage used by brainlet middle aged gen x wannabe directors showing Lucas expressing dismay he won't break the Titanic box office doesn't mean he's some heartless shekel obsessed businessman.

If Lucas were in charge of the sequels the first movie would've almost certainly sucked, but it wouldn't have been spiteful, and the rest of nuwars wouldn't be a giant leftwing fuck you to the fans.

No. They were waiting for Luke.

Maybe for the same reason Yoda did?

>doesn't mean he's some heartless shekel obsessed businessman
I'll grant that it wouldn't have turned out to be a giant fuck you to the fans in the long run; but George was a humble toy salesman. Every creative decision he made was based on its impact on toy sales. Doesn't make him a bad guy per se, but he certainly wasn't driven by artistry.

yeah? can you give me the gist of the plot and characters it would have involved? anything. or are you just parroting shit after glorified bloggers who were bashing George as damage control while not actually provoding any information about Georges plans?

>Darth Jar Jar
There was never going to be a fucking Darth Jar Jar. Christ. Retconning Jar Jar to be some kind of secret Sith who was only pretending to be retarded would have seemed like a potential solution at the time.

so why did he leave a map to himself if he wanted to die alone?

>Every creative decision he made was based on its impact on toy sales
No you are an idiot. The fact is that the type of creative decisions that lead to good Space Opera also lead to good toy design. If you are very dumb you can insist that he prioritized toys over the other but it is completely irrelevant either way.

>or are you just parroting shit after glorified bloggers
Nobody outside of Disney/LF knows what the actual plans were. And seems like you're just rose-tinted-glass remembering how Good Lucas was; whereas I'm going off of the last 3 films he directed, which were overwhelmingly shit. Shittier films in the same series having been made since doesn't make his shitty ones any better.

>If you are very dumb you can insist that he prioritized toys over the other
>doesn't want to kill Han off because "nobody wants to buy dead Han toys"

Because JJ and Rian are hacks who don't understand these characters

Luke didn't leave the map.

A stronk independent wahmen presence is so strong that she makes all the men around her behave like retards.
youtube.com/watch?v=6xAcbqnaIsQ

but it was in r2

R2 had the pre-existing incomplete map still in his database, as he was probably the one who spliced it out of the Empire's archives (Kylo says this is where the map originated from). That doesn't mean Luke left it behind so someone could follow him. R2 didn't have the missing piece.

>missing piece just happens to be found
>tiny little chunk of the map they totally couldn't have found by going where the damn map ended & looking in the missing area
Hacks.

You have no sense of scale. Finding one planet in even one small sector of uncharted space would be like trying to find one specific grain of sand at the ocean floor. I think the map was a specific hyperspace route, anyway, and it was established in ANH that without proper routing you can crash into a star or something.

Anyway you are really overthinking a macguffin in a space opera. Would you be more satisfied if we got Rogue Two explaining how Max von Sydow got the map, because fanboys seal clapped when they made an entire movie about the MacGuffin from the original?

>Would you be more satisfied if we got Rogue Two explaining how Max von Sydow got the map, because fanboys seal clapped when they made an entire movie about the MacGuffin from the original?
I'd vastly prefer it to not have such a glaringly huge plot hole needing an entire movie or cartoon series to explain away to begin with.

Look at pic related & honestly tell me it wouldn't have been a relatively simple thing to accomplish to just look in the fucking blank spot when all the areas around said blank spot have been charted.

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You'd think Mopey McSuicidal would be happy to bum rush the FO but I guess he was too stupid to let gravity do the work years ago so that wouldn't occur to him.

The movie in general and Luke specifically we're poorly written by a man who had zero respect for the source material.

Obi Wan didn't want to kill Anakin. If he were to encounter Vader in a fight, he would be a liability to the rebels.

And then people stopped watching. Shocker!

They were being hunted by a galaxy spanning Empire, tard.

>a bloo bloo he didn't RESPECT muh STAR WARS enough

grow up

George did n't want to direct the sequels, he gave them the stories and they could hire screenwriters and directors to make it happen. But instead they rejected them and brought the least creative man in Hollywood to write and direct a reboot and selling it as sequels!

>Daisy dumb looking at the robot instead od the map!

>so why did anyone like this enough to have it be a franchise that made billions over four decades, off of only 6 movies? You know, so we can, like, keep doing that?
>Literally who even cares lmfao, let's just do fucking whatever & bitch if they don't like it, surely that will prove successful

youtube.com/watch?v=syjhoWSpxdU

I think the scene above where Luke tells Ben's story tried to explain Luke's exile. It's not so crazy out of character, he saw the future in ESB and rushed to save his friends. Yes we're talking about Master Luke and yes he should have grown beyond such knee-jerk reactions, but he's been shown to be this way before.

He exiled himself out of fear and shame. They definitely started the sequels in a shitty spot so far beyond the OT, no denying that. But I don't think it makes sense to think he exiled himself out of nowhere. JJ set up the shitty premise and Rian sort of fixed it... Sort of. If they started the sequels a little closer to ROTJ, so show Luke and his academy, Ben turning, and the newbies showing up to drive the story, the sequels wouldn't be so weird and foreign to old star wars fans.

>a bloo bloo they didn't adhere to my autistic wikifag EUdrone interpretation of the franchise, clearly they were malicious in intent and wanted to tear it down!

You're a fucking baby

Uh yeah that's the problem people have with that flashback, Luke is beat for beat repeating the exact same mistakes he made in the OT, showing that he's still the immature kid in ANH and all those trials and tribulations literally all meant nothing because they taught him nothing.

>they didn't adhere to my autistic wikifag EUdrone interpretation of the franchise
Faggot they didn't even TRY to do anything coherent. That's all I wanted was some fucking effort. Somebody once said here they replaced a carefully constructed miniature model by shitting into a contractor bag until it filled & that was entirely accurate.

In ESB and RotJ Luke actively gave in to his kneejerk temptations. In TLJ he briefly considers doing a bad thing but relents when he realizes he knows better.

It's just that in TLJ, the mere temptation was enough to cause disaster, and Luke feels that the fate of the entire universe being dependent on one man always being perfect is too much so he leaves.

Waiting. Exactly. Waiting while the galaxy goes to shit. Luke was doing the same thing.

RotJ and the prequels retconned Obiwan and Yoda to be explicitly waiting until Luke was old enough to save the galaxy, while Luke in TLJ fully intended to waste away on that island forever until he died.

I love TLJ and think what they did with Luke was fascinating but they're not the same situation.

He stopped himself from killing Vader in ROTJ too. Faced with almost the exact same situation with Ben, he still made the massive mistake to actually ignite and raise his saber. A proper post-ROTJ Luke would never have even ignited it, having learned that

1) Don't trust visions
2) Don't give into hate
3) Have patience

30 seconds and it undermined literally every lesson he was supposed to have learned.

>He stopped himself from killing Vader in ROTJ too

Only after he cut his arm off and was an inch away from murdering him in cold blood, and he only relented because Sheev was cackling and telling him that killing Vader would turn him.

In comparison Luke was absolutely restrained with Ben

How are you even comparing those two scenarios? Obi-Wan and Yoda were completely alone, two men being hunted by a galaxy spanning Empire that just took out 99% of their brothers. Luke had both the Republic and the Resistance to fall back on and help take down the monster he just created.

So? They're master Jedi. Are you saying they're pussies?

Yoda even said to Luke in Empire, "no dont go help your friends, its too dangerous, you might get hurt. Stay here in the swamp where it's safe."

No, the entire point was that he gave into the Dark Side by lashing out on Vader but stopped short of going fully dark. Just having him give into the Dark Side once again in a similar situation (his friends being threatened, except not even directly this time) he still gives into it. So, ROTJ didn't teach him anything.

You think two Jedi could destroy the entire Empire? The entire fleet, the entire army? Okay retard.

Yoda told Luke not to go because he hadn't finished his training and Vader could kick his ass. Which is exactly what happened.

Right, so Luke resisted temptation once so that means he conquered it entirely as a concept. He had officially graduated Jedi Training and became Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master™ and therefore would never think about doing bad things ever again. He is now an immaculate, perfect hero because he won once at 25 and could never betray himself given 30 years and entirely different responsibilities.

cause luke was just a lad who couldnt lift his x wing out of the swamp and vader could deflect blaster shots.
modern day luke is complete opposite of what he was.

same as yoda

He overcame his darkness and became a Jedi, yes. I seem to recall the title hinting at that, just vaguely. Yoda too.

How about giving him some new struggles instead of undermining previous ones? You're admitting now that it's the exact same scenario but it's okay because um people repeat mistakes.

yeah, the reason Yoda didn't want Luke to go is because he hadn't grinded out enough experience points and his Force Push wasn't powerful enough!

Old Luke was super duper powerful and he could blow up entire galaxies by farting

you say it in an absurd manner but it is the truth. still better than rey starting with god mode on.

No, the point is that Luke was still weak in character and that if he confronted Vader before he had the moral fortitude he could turn to the dark side and become an agent of evil

it wasn't that he hadn't leveled up his force powers enough you child

When a cop graduates police academy most would expect they hold the same moral standards throughout their career instead of going in and out of being a corrupt cop and using "hurr people make mistakes" as an excuse

yes it was. the whole point if the force is knowledge is power. so grinding out those dumb yoda drills make him stronger both mentally and physically.

>stop not liking what I like
That's some might strong projection, friend besto.

That is absolutely not what I'm saying you fucking autist.

Presuming malicious intent on the part of the director simply because it wasn't what you wanted is a pretty telltale sign of malignant narcissism and immaturity.

the film explains his motivation multiple times, i'm very sorry you were too stupid to pick up on it.

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There's no evidence that Rian respected the source material. Meanwhile there is a ton that indicates the opposite. His own commentary shows he didn't feel held back from what he did in the slightest. The man set out to subvert everything that makes the franchise what it is. That you're angry at all over this observation indicates that your name calling is 100% projection. You would not be so angry if this didn't threaten your own self-image, which is a hallmark of narcissism.

Please come back gerge.

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>fanboy asks question about the movie respectfully and without anger
>Rian answers and is clearly having fun

what's the problem here?

He's clearly making up answers on the spot, the first answer doesn't make sense, and he forgot what happened in his own movie.

>This is the kind of SW debates I grew up having about the OT
>starts spewing nonsense out his ass, knows nothing about gravity wells or astromechs.

>MUH LORE

>MUH COHERENT ARGUMENT

You're as insuffereable as a sperging atheist.