True detective season 3

It was, in all honesty, pretty fantastic. I gotta say this: If you are going in, try not to focus too much on the case. The divide regarding S3 is between people who were terribly disappointed by the case conclusion and those who were more involved in the characters in the first place. And I agree. The case was argueably weak BUT there is a moment towards the end that is one the best moments I've ever witnessed on TV. Its gutwrenching, heartbreaking, and resides among those Red wedding, "I did it for me"-moments in TV history.

That being said, the case conclusion is really weak. It could have been way better. I think Nic wanted a more grounded, unspectacular conclusion to not divert attention from the characters. But for that, he shouldnt have put out so many red herings.

Oh and Dorff is the absolute highlight of the season. Not Ali, who is great too, but Dorff just fucking shines.

8/10

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Nah
It's started good but falls apart and ends badly.

>Le crazy rich white people
>Le crazy white trash
>Le corrupted white authorities

Everything that makes this show watchable in the end becomes a parody of the first season.
And all that was added new - is garbage.
And Dorff was underrated much. And his makeup was awful.

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Is it in the same universe as S1?

yes

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LEMME OUT MAN

REGGIE?!
REGGIE FUCKIN LEDOO DIDSIS?

And stars will be your eyes...

Thanks user. I'll probably start watching this weekend

Why does 2 filter so many?

What was the “best on tv” moment at the end of s3?

"Excuse me, ma'am? I'm lost...can you help me?"

"Excuse me, ma'am? I'm lost...can you help me?"

it's not a filter just because people drop it, that implies it is secretly really good. It's fucking not. I had to go on the wiki to look up who the villain was for 2 cos it was so forgettable.

that's weird I hd the exact opposite conclusion. I felt the case in 1 was actually relatively straight forward and the characters were what I wa watching for, and with 3 the case was the super densly packed part that was fun and the characters were both flat.

I liked Dorff's acting, but they clearly didn't give a crap about him in the writers room. Marty plays second fiddle to Cohle but West plays third or fourth fiddle to Hays. I forgot Dorf's charater's name about 4 times throughout. There's no retelling from his perspective.

I was okay with the case being better as I love a whodunnit, but it really unravelled and became rather flat at the end. The conclusion was just flat and run of the mill. and I saw teh "twist" at the convent from a mile off.

Out of interest, what was the scene you called gut wrenching? I felt very little struck me or tugged at my heart strings throghout.

OP, see my comments above. If you like 1 then it is the polar opposite of that but not in a bad way. 1 had kino characters, and the mystery was dark but pretty straightforward. This has kino mystery (at first) and no chemistry between the characters or even identifiable archetypes. Hays is obsessive but kinda clueless and West is a "put in the hours" cop who got no development.

demkeedz

Yikes

is this the heart string tugging moment?! Oh no, he is gonna crack the case but he is too fucking stupid to take his partner with him to save his Alzheimers-ass. It gave me a momentary jump of "will he do it or wont he" but there was no stakes so it wasn't like there'd be another death if he didn't figure it out like the final chase in season 1.

yikes at what? or are you one of those low rent trolls?

That you had to search for the villain of S2. It's also racist to give S3 a 9/10 because the star is African American

Discase.

Why, did that guy with teh crows mask really stand out to you as one of the best villains of the decade? If you are refering to all the other side villains and pieces of shit, then fine, but Bird Boi was fucking forgettable.

it was incredibly boring, there was not enough material to fill in eight episodes. it might have been good if it was a feature movie

Thats not the point. In terms of motives, it's incredibly strong. We heed the life of a tracker, of a man defined by two major themes: tracking - and forgetting. By the end, he is almost completely engulfed in darkness, yet his skillset makes arrive at his destination. The cruelty is, that heeding those traces leading up to Julie, this moment of arrival - he does not really participate in it. So, technically speaking, this involves resolvment and conclusion, yet it doesn't. Because purples determination is rewarded for the viewer, but not for him. He is trapped in a circle withouth conclusion. It's a schroedingers moment of character development, something you rarely witness on screen. It's the kind of ambigious conclusion reserved for the ranks of literature, but Pizza transported in on screen, and he deserves acknowledgment for that.

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Wasted quads

3 > 1 > 2 > most of everything else on tv that people like

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what is the message of it being purposely unresolved and unsatisfying? it seems pointlessly cruel to the character and the viewers

I understand your point, but I think it was poorly executed on screen. Maybe if it had ended there or if he had a real meltdown like actually Alzheimers patients do and we really saw him disintergrate there, I suppose so. But that porch scene with all the happy family together made me feel like the mystery was just explained to us like kids and now we can all go home. Hays should have started raving at the family, had a glimmer of memory at the kid and say "you're familiar", then got back to being really lost again. It felt like he had no input or consequence. He felt like he was doing his wifes job and finishes research on a book, not a cop that couldn't save a kid.

>It's good but the finale is really bad.
pleb

Just watch it first. one cannot say anything about it without spoiling your experience watching it.
it's better than s2 no worries much better

Best scene of all 3 seasons, prove me wrong trips-user

its 8 hours

Stephen Dwarf lol

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It means you can write yourself into a corner because you never have to explain a way out and reddit/tv/ will love it

objectively wrong
>1
>Many other fine shows
>Many other enjoyable shows
>3
>Mediocre shows
>Shit shows
>Watching paint dry
>Watching my dog curl one out whilst maintaining eye contact with me
>Watching my mother get blacked
>Doing both of the above whilst breaking my fingers each time I hear a sloppy dick slam into her or my dog shakes a little as he pinches
>2

You have to think of it in the established context of the motives surrounding the series and this season especially, of course. Otherwise, whats the point of judging anything? Every TD ending is marked by the same thing - the detective does not prevail in his profession (identity), yet personal (essence). Marty and Cohle fail to expose the big picture, yet Cohle is fundamentally changed (argueably to the better). Ray wrecks his career, but his last stand is cohesive to his development and resolves him of his "sins", and Purple, the eternal tracker, arrives at this destination without knowing, yet is surrounded by a loving family in the end. Which, especially with Purple, was the whole point - the relevance of the "10.000 dollars insurance" - line from Ameila was the final nail for us to realize that this is a fundamentally lonely man who does not value his own life. Yet in the very end, we get a hierarchy sequence: Surrounded by a loving family (defeatingthe existential solitude), finding strength to forgive (and go with Amelia), and getting "lost" in the jungle (the wholesome theme of what drove him).

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>pleb
no it was like someone explained the mystery to me with a crayon, then the final scene is liek something out of happy days.

>MOMMY MOMMY PLEASE TELL ME WHO THE BAD GUY IS!!!
>PLEASE GIVE ME IDENTIFIABLE ARCHETYPES!!!
>the writers room
>west plays third or fourth fiddle to Hays even tho he has the second most screentime and we see plenty of scenes from his pov
>implying anyone has ever given a shit about dorffs acting before this

terrible post

season 2 is underrated, it felt like a good old film-noir. the stupid ending was unfortunate but opposed to season 1 it was thematically consistent and opposed to season 3 it was not a total borefest

Why wasn't it called "Truth Detectives"? would've made more sense

>give me sensationalistic action and violence and heroism please please please

the guy with the crow mask wasnt the or even a villain at all you tard

you know what based effortposting user, you are making a good point

the season was still pretty boring and the plot too simple and drawn out way too much to carry all of this

Look at the comments for S2 ITT. Hopefully one day it will be known why it scares anons so much

ray terrorizing ass-pen. wayne sending trashman to heaven. rust mowing marty's lawn. there's really an endless amount of amazing scenes in this show

>>MOMMY MOMMY PLEASE TELL ME WHO THE BAD GUY IS!!!
I specifically criticised 3 for an explainathon from the one eyed nigger, you dumb one eyed nigger.

>west plays third or fourth fiddle to Hays even tho he has the second most screentime and we see plenty of scenes from his pov
He gets second most screentime whilst Ali takes up 95% off the scenes. wow, what a dream team. Actually, it's his bangable wife that is second fiddle in this show, and their arguing. At least in 1 Marty and his wife argue when it is revelevant and build his character, its not the central plot.

>implying anyone has ever given a shit about dorffs acting before this
Then cast someone else and make them partners. It's had big enough names in the series so far, they could have gotten anyone.

Terrible rebuttals.

do you know what contexts to use lesser or greater chevrons and what contexts to use greentext or are you the legendary 90 IQ arbitrator of objective quality

that deus ex machina moment with june explaining what happened was, in all honesty, shockingly weak. I wonder why Nic couldnt come with something better. It was so weak that it was actually offputting.

I think you’re elevating it a little bit to unattainable / lofty ranks. I can’t point out familiar execution in a show or movies conclusion but it feels like something I’ve seen before. Sort of like waking up and realizing the whole plot was the main char’s dream, but not that basic of course

This is a great post and I take back my post here

good post user. rewatch the end of 3 and really pay attention to the last few seconds of wayne on screen. he literally vanishes in the jungle. he walks behind a plant that shouldn't be able to fully occlude him and never comes out the other side.

my interpretation is that in the pivotal last 1980 scene with amelia in the VFW he was removing himself from that lone jungle mindset spiritually. course it takes 10 yrs for them to really make it together, and 2015 he regresses and finally loses his mind but thats life for ya.

>that deus ex machina moment with june explaining what happened

thats not deus ex machina but more like dropping massive exposition really awkwardly but yeah

It's a meta critical "fuck you" for people who loved S1 and were let down by S2.

>I liked Dorff's acting, but they clearly didn't give a crap about him in the writers room. Marty plays second fiddle to Cohle but West plays third or fourth fiddle to Hays. I forgot Dorf's charater's name about 4 times throughout. There's no retelling from his perspective.
It's almost as if this season was a complete anti-thesis to S1.

>give me sensationalistic action and violence and heroism please please please
No, just a conclusion without the old man yelling at clouds would be fine.

>the guy with the crow mask wasnt the or even a villain at all you tard
Exactly! it's so forgettable I can't even remember if I got it right. My memories of season 2 are worse that Hays' fucking memory. Also, yes he is:
true-detective.fandom.com/wiki/Leonard_Osterman
>two main antagonists

>those who were more involved in the characters in the first place

if it is a character study of Purple it fails terribly because he has next to zero chemistry with his wife as evident by the incredibly awkward dinner scene - and he plays the character almost consistently grumpy and unlikeable so you don't really get his relationship with West either.
the only time I really felt for Purple with him as old man

I just like to keep it simple user, it's from best to worse, not really that complex. Also, if I chevroned that it'd be a wall of text, so I thought I'd keep it simple. For yourself user, the simple one.

its just that they didnt have the time or money to do it the way it deserved. it really is all on hbo

-nic was sick physically
-nic had only finished like half the scripts when they started shooting (compared to 6 or 7 for s1 and s3)
-they had 8 months production+shooting compared to 10 for s1 (and in s1 they only had like 12 days to shoot each episode)
-finding a talented director who would take a pay cut to direct 8 hours of tv very quickly on a short notice of someone elses material was never going to happen
-the director of photography had to take a day off each week or episode to do scouting with the next director
-hbo wanted to save half a million dollars not shooting on film so its pitiful 2.8k digital camerawork
-production designer didnt have the time to put the last finishing touches on sets like he would like to. way more sets were built on a sound stage so if you notice theres way fewer scenes that involve people being able to really enter or leave an interior seamlessly
-t bone had only finished scoring the 7th episode after the 4th aired. & the finale was ripped from the editors hand at the last possible moment by hbo to make the airdate

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this, it's when I really lost my rag with this season. I really liked the first 5 or 6 episodes though, and then this. Just fucking solve the mystery, rather than giving up and being old men who just ask some guy to explain why they can't do their fucking jobs.

>I specifically criticised 3 for an explainathon from the one eyed nigger, you dumb one eyed nigger.
that was a response to your talking about 2

>He gets second most screentime whilst Ali takes up 95% off the scenes. wow, what a dream team. Actually, it's his bangable wife that is second fiddle in this show, and their arguing. At least in 1 Marty and his wife argue when it is revelevant and build his character, its not the central plot.
go watch season 1 if you want to watch season 1

>Then cast someone else and make them partners. It's had big enough names in the series so far, they could have gotten anyone.
its a show about wayne. I can recommend season 1 for you if you want two central leads or s2 if you want 4.

a confession by a guilty criminal is not a deus ex machina. holy shit

So why did it turn out great?

only to people who are obsessed with season one. every season is its own thing. deal with it

>No, just a conclusion without the old man yelling at clouds would be fine.
old men tend to do that and you knew the show was about old dudes from episode one so...
>Exactly! it's so forgettable I can't even remember if I got it right. My memories of season 2 are worse that Hays' fucking memory. Also, yes he is:
>wikia with hardly anything on it covering a show nobody payed attention to
if you think birdman and his sister were the main antagonists youre retarded. all birdman did was kill a guy who murdered his parents. he goes along with ray at the end and ani lets the sister go

I'm not convinced.

the raw talent & enthusiasm of the people involved. but if it had been done properly it would be the undisputed king of television I believe

yeah, but if that was what they wanted, why make it True Detective Season 3? Make another cop procedural. Or if you want the fan's bucks, then make it TD3 and have a balanced input from both of them, but change up the mystery or their character archetypes. The mystery was much more densely packed here and I liked it right up until episode 6. Bringing the Dad in as a suspect made me rethink some scenes and I liked that. Don't just waste our time and Dorff's time by having some stony cop with a bolo tie and aviators saying cool shit every 5 minutes.

>that was a response to your talking about 2
I don't need it explaining, I just want the characters to be strong, and the bird boi and the other fuckers were dislikable or forgettable or useless. Why was Vince Caughn's cahracter even there? I don't want to know about his nightclub and business suffering

>go watch season 1 if you want to watch season 1
I lay out legitmate flaws in a tv show and the response is watch a different show? Well if there was any stronger validation for me being correct, I haven't seen it

>its a show about wayne. I can recommend season 1 for you if you want two central leads or s2 if you want 4.
Maybe so, then why bring him back to help out later? Why the whole "we're getting the band back together" shit? Kill him off in the shoot out in 1980 or in 1990 when they are going after the dad, that guy was unhinged enough.

And unfortunately for the writers, the first season defined what the show is, and its about two leads that compliment, contrast and often clash with one another but get the job done. Its like making Mad Men season two about blue collar workers and their troubles in the Rust Belt and claiming "muh new direction for the show, muh spreading our wings"

I agree,

That being said - I think Nic should dare himself and search in swedish criminal literature for new inspiration. Nothing beats a good case - and although the S1 case and his implications were great, Pizza has yet failed to deliver a truly compelling plot. S1 was close, but if there is going to be a S4, I would love to have a character that is in writer theory commonly described as a bullet.

A "bullet character" takes the plot down with him. He is not so much engulfed by the ambiguious, painful stences of existence, but is rather resolved already. Like a person emerging stronger from trauma, for example.

These "bullet characters" are unhinged in their capabilities to plow through a plot. Meaning: You confront reader or viewer with a testament of human deviance and have the bullet rip through it. Basically a cathartic vehicle. Everybody critizes those characters, yet everybody knows one in real life, and everybody loves seeing them on screen.

A great example for a bullet is Detective Loki from Prisoners.

So that doesnt mean that a bullet character cannot be troubled. But he must remain on top. I think Nic could write a fantastic bullet and truly dare to work through the pedophile themes which have been so prevalent. I really hope he would take his approach.

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Great acting can't make up for a weak script of movie stretched to 8 episodes of a TV show. They also tried to hard to emulate season 1 feel, forgetting that people hated 2 not because it wasn't 1, but because it had the most convoluted plot out there.

did I say they were the main antagonists? I am aware there were a bunch of corrupt cops and corrupt politicians too, even Frank's bodyguard was a villain. But if literally everyone we meet is villainous, then who are you gonna pick for teh main guy? And the Crow killed the first guy and started to whole case. He was the one they wre (ostensibly) looking for the whole time.
>We are all bad people cos the world is bad
how deep, now where's my fucking murderer, it's a detective show afterall.

that's interesting user, you seem to know your film theory. Can you explain more about a bullet character? How do the "bring the plot down with them"? Is Rust from 1 an example of this, as the plot seems to move with his ebb and flow?

otter shit

S3 got away with having no villain?

Did you just say ebb and flow

no i was refering to season 2. the crow guy is being shilled here as a secondary antagonist when he literally killed the murder victim. And ther are so many people that are evil aorund him and have bigger motives, but with so many bad guys, including Frank who is arguably on the wrong side of the conflict, then who do you hav eleft to call the antagonist? Surely it's got to be the main murderer? That's who they were after all this time.

>why make it True Detective Season 3?
because its an anthology series of similar but also distinct procedurals written by nic pizzolatto and scored by t bone burnett
>Or if you want the fan's bucks, then make it TD3 and have a balanced input from both of them
the formula was never [two actors]. that was a twitter meme
>Why was Vince Caughn's cahracter even there? I don't want to know about his nightclub and business suffering
-the biggest and only victim of the initial crime
-the one who opens a door to the underworld for ray
-the one with the most inside perspective on vinci's white collar and street crime
-effectively ray's actual boss and only friend
-a detective in his own right
-pure noir archetype
>I lay out legitmate flaws in a tv show and the response is watch a different show? Well if there was any stronger validation for me being correct, I haven't seen it
the amount of relative screentime and import given to this or that central character is not "legitimate flaws" its just you being a whiny bitch. so go back and watch that
>Maybe so, then why bring him back to help out later? Why the whole "we're getting the band back together" shit? Kill him off in the shoot out in 1980 or in 1990 when they are going after the dad, that guy was unhinged enough.
why not kill everyone who isn't wayne? I mean why not?
>And unfortunately for the writers, the first season defined what the show is, and its about two leads that compliment, contrast and often clash with one another but get the job done. Its like making Mad Men season two about blue collar workers and their troubles in the Rust Belt and claiming "muh new direction for the show, muh spreading our wings"
mad men isn't an anthology. you're retarded. but the wire did exactly that and is one of the greatest of all time so what do you know

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Race-obsessed much?

yes? I couldn't really put my finger on the words to use desu. The first season seemed to move with Rust though. When he is a detective, there are murders, then he retires and things go quiet, then they heat up and he has been recently investigating for a few months. He is like a vortex.

I unironically did have to search it. I'm sorry, I uh, I can't take it anymore. I think TD has had its throat cut ITT

you fucking quoted the wiki saying there are two main antagonists. youre incoherent. go to bed.
why do you have to pick "teh main guy"? you could pick almost anyone over those two. holloway and burris, chessani jr., whoever
>We are all bad people cos the world is bad
yes its called noir, hello
>how deep, now where's my fucking murderer, it's a detective show afterall.
someone can be a murderer and not be the main antagonist. in fact just about every true detective protagonist is guilty of murder

Better than 2 (which was good) but not as good as one. Hays and Roland are fucking amazing and they feel kind of wasted on the plot honestly

>because its an anthology series of similar but also distinct procedurals written by nic pizzolatto and scored by t bone burnett
then why change the recipe so much?

>the formula was never [two actors]. that was a twitter meme
Yeah it was, that chemistry and concentration on character development wasn't accidental user.

>-the biggest and only victim of the initial crime
>-the one who opens a door to the underworld for ray
>-the one with the most inside perspective on vinci's white collar and street crime
>-effectively ray's actual boss and only friend
>-a detective in his own right
>-pure noir archetype
who cares about any on this? We didn't dwell on the victims elsewhere, I want to see the detectives doing it. If he was a friend, mentor, door opener for Ray and a detective in his own right, make his a fucking detective who used to be in with the mob or has been deep undercover.

>the amount of relative screentime and import given to this or that central character is not "legitimate flaws" its just you being a whiny bitch. so go back and watch that
They are legitimate, when I am suppose to believe these two characters are doing this shit as a team, if they aren't then fine, but kill of Dorff and make Ali solve the mystery.

>why not kill everyone who isn't wayne? I mean why not?
Based on the amount of time we see Ali's confused old man face, I am asking the same question.

>mad men isn't an anthology. you're retarded. but the wire did exactly that and is one of the greatest of all time so what do you know
The wire didn't, it switched cases and broadened its scope. It didn't switch cities and start talking about arms dealers instead of drugs and meditate on the gun violence from MS13 in California.

>so what do you know
more than you apprantly

this all just sounds like rust cohle to me

dem keeds

people are throwing monkey shit everywhere because 3 isnt similar enough to 1

I’ve just started watching it this week. It’s okay but it’s such a far cry from S1.

I will say it’s difficult to adjust from an aloof occultist protagonist like Rust to a guy who just talks about black prison ass rape all the time.

Fucking this

I didnt mention them for two reasons, one being they are all forgettable so who am I to pick as my 3 dimensional villain when they are all 2D?

The second reason is that its a detective mystery, so fucking find me the murderer. If you made the crow the murderer, find him. If its someone else, fine, but make them worthwhile.

I know someone can be bad and not the main villain, but for god's sake, make one of them stand out. If you want him to be a thug or pawn, great, but where is my Palpatine to crow boi's Vader?

You needed to search the term? Ah okay, that's cool bro. Yeha, I just felt the mood and themes of the show moved with Marty and Rust and that made it feel really alive for me.

the murder victim who
-killed birdmans parents (including his pregnant mother who was pregnant with caspere's second illegitimate child - the first was birdmans sister)
-who blackmails all the important politicians in the state with degenerate sex orgies featuring drugged vulnerable women
-stole all of franks money and conspired with osip to fuck him
the main antagonist who
-only used riot shells to knock ray out
-went along with rays plan to get holloway to spill the beans on tape
-died avenging his family

OP here, damn, didn't think the thread would get this big, and I honestly kind of forgot I made the thread in the first place, but I just stumbled upon it now.

I am convinced, I will check it out, try to watch at least 2 episodes per sitting

Tnx for the replies anons

You've created a Reddit monster

It was good until the S1 Finale flashback where Marty talks about the dark having a lot more territory so Rust looks at the sky and sees Hayes as a reflection then hears the word Dementia in the wind and he goes on: Yeah Marty but i think the whites are winning

>PWEASE DONT SHOOT ME TRUE DETECTIVE

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That's all fine, but it's a detective show and they spent almost no time going after the corrupt cops, if they got him half way through and got him to sit down and turn informant for them, maybe. But instead we got 1 or 2 episodes of Birdie revealing himself to be a tortured soul and almost no detective work into the police and the politicians. It's True Detective, I want some DETECTION, not a finale with birdman crying me a river, a shoot out and the suggestion that Ani is gonna become a lesbian journalist and we'll expose the truth some day. Imagine if Rust and Marty finished their interviews in episode 5 or 6 and then the series ended with rust writing his autobiography and saying, "sure do hope someone pieces this shit together after I'm dead."

kek

>then why change the recipe so much?
Different stories, different structures. Crazy how that works.
>Yeah it was, that chemistry and concentration on character development wasn't accidental user.
"Chemistry" is the goal of all casting ever for anything. All three TDs are focused on character. [two actors] was never the formula. You don't get to decide that.
>who cares about any on this? We didn't dwell on the victims elsewhere, I want to see the detectives doing it. If he was a friend, mentor, door opener for Ray and a detective in his own right, make his a fucking detective who used to be in with the mob or has been deep undercover
Nic pizzolatto, who writes the show he wants to write. Not all detectives are police. Most detective fiction the characters aren't police, even. No, we do dwell on victims of crime a lot on this show
>The wire didn't, it switched cases and broadened its scope. It didn't switch cities and start talking about arms dealers instead of drugs and meditate on the gun violence from MS13 in California.
because it wasn't an anthology. I'm done if you're going to be this disingenuous

>kind of forgot I made this thread in the first place

Hayes?

>going from 1 to 3
>where is my Palpatine to crow boi's Vader?

>this is the state of neo Yea Forums

>Different stories, different structures. Crazy how that works.
good structures and shit structures, funny how lightning doesn't strike twice and it should have ended with 1

>"Chemistry" is the goal of all casting ever for anything. All three TDs are focused on character. [two actors] was never the formula. You don't get to decide that.
and yet, none of them had chemistry other than 1. Sure, give me Ali and Dorff or Farrell and Vaughn and McAdams. But don't make it flat.

>Nic pizzolatto, who writes the show he wants to write. Not all detectives are police. Most detective fiction the characters aren't police, even. No, we do dwell on victims of crime a lot on this show
Then don't make them detectives if they aren't going to solve the mystery/bring someone to justice.

>because it wasn't an anthology. I'm done if you're going to be this disingenuous
So an anthology is the excuse for shit writing? Twilight Zone is an anthology, would you defend it unto death if they started doing episodes about romances? Also, why did you mention it as being a good example of spreading its wings and then say it is incomparable because it is not an anthology? Funny hill you picked to die on user.

>I'm done
please user, do, you are defending trash tv by saying "it can be anything it wants to be, it's all just differnet man"

kek

it's just an analogy user, you don't need a literal cartoon emperor villain.

Sure.

Although the bullet is argueably easier to write himself (no fundamental inner conflict to be resolved), the bullet also drives the narrator to do a very complicated thing.

He must multiply the narratives.

That means: the key to your story is a dynamic network or intertwined threads. The tension of the plot does not reside in the main character - it is embedded in the network of these threads.

So then the bullet comes along. The bullets presence shatters or at least trembles the threads, so part of the tension is released. So for example: Imagine using introduction and exposé for showing a corrupt company. You show players, departments, construct a mystery in their midst, some dirt that must be hid, that, and that is essential, is NOT revealed to the viewer or reader, but at least implied. The bullet could be an investigator. And the joy of those stories is - you see deviance punished. It's a complicated effort, because good story telling resides in the grey areas, and the bullet tends to categorize the world in good and bad. But he is a moral authority. He is a punisher. A hunter. An exploratory tool.

One of the oldest bullets, in that perspective, is for example Columbo.

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^ this they use season 1 to hype the early episodes then they do the old switcheroo
they use this narrative technique where you know the previous material its called meta me thinks

I think I am getting you there user, he is the one than upsets the events and everything comes to gravitate around him or at least he touches everything along the way?

Are you familiar with Naoki Urasawa's manga and animation? I think Johan is a bullet if that is what you mean. A black hole or sinkhole at the centre of the plot that makes all the antagonists aorund him maximize their efforts and the protagonists begin their fight for justice. If he wan't around, the events of the story would largely remain undisturbed and probably blow over.

>good structures and shit structures, funny how lightning doesn't strike twice and it should have ended with 1
yes. because we all know you can only ever have two main protagonists in fiction. thats the only good way to do it
>and yet, none of them had chemistry other than 1. Sure, give me Ali and Dorff or Farrell and Vaughn and McAdams. But don't make it flat.
nobody ever intends to
>Then don't make them detectives if they aren't going to solve the mystery/bring someone to justice.
lol. even if this were true it wouldn't be right. he brings blake, osipm, & mccandless to justice and does his share of street style investigative work
>So an anthology is the excuse for shit writing? Also, why did you mention it as being a good example of spreading its wings and then say it is incomparable because it is not an anthology? Funny hill you picked to die on user.
its an excuse for change in setting. which you defined as bad. I brought up how the wire makes the exact blue collar shift you mentioned would be shit, and did it really well. then you said "It didn't switch cities and start talking about arms dealers instead of drugs and meditate on the gun violence from MS13 in California." please tell me why you think a story about that is inherently badly written?
>Twilight Zone is an anthology, would you defend it unto death if they started doing episodes about romances?
they did
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_(The_Twilight_Zone)
whats the issue?

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this just sounds like it would come across as rust cohle 1.1 with less realism and depth. wouldnt bet on nic ever doing this for TD

>yes. because we all know you can only ever have two main protagonists in fiction. thats the only good way to do it
I specifically said have all the protagonists you want, but make them good. McAdams, Kitsch, Farrell, Dorff were all poorly or under used.

>nobody ever intends to
Do you think I assumed they did this shit on purpose?

>lol. even if this were true it wouldn't be right. he brings blake, osipm, & mccandless to justice and does his share of street style investigative work
Then make it about him and not Ray and his shitty waifu and the closetted cop

>its an excuse for change in setting. which you defined as bad. I brought up how the wire makes the exact blue collar shift you mentioned would be shit, and did it really well. then you said "It didn't switch cities and start talking about arms dealers instead of drugs and meditate on the gun violence from MS13 in California." please tell me why you think a story about that is inherently badly written?
Blue collar shift? It's gonna from one ghetto to the next, hardly a jarring shift in tone. We went from a mystery with great characters to a convoluted political scandal with no good characters, to a mystery that was half good and half shit with only one detective doing anything. It isn't inherently bad to shift settings, but at least bring the good stuff people liked with you, or make it a brand new show if you want to do something different. Doin't tell your fans that its the next installment in their favourite shit and make it nothing like what they expected.

>they did
Okay, bad example. How about a whole season of musical episodes? You knew what I fucking meant.

Holy shit, that scene was so hamfisted and moronic I actually laughed. I can't even imagine the kind of person who finds it 'gut-wrenching' and it makes a lot of sense you're one of those people that put the 'Red Wedding' up there. There was ONE excellent shot in the finale, which was the car scene. But 'le old person with alzheimers' is such a corny trope, it wasn't sad in the Notebook and it isn't sad here.

>I specifically said have all the protagonists you want, but make them good. McAdams, Kitsch, Farrell, Dorff were all poorly or under used.
no you didn't. you said "good structures" (2 central leads) and "shit structures" (1 or 4 central leads)
>Do you think I assumed they did this shit on purpose?
I can quote you saying they should not have made S2 or S3. And all you've given are shallow creative opinions with no regard to the reality of production. See:
>Then make it about him and not Ray and his shitty waifu and the closetted cop
It is.
>Blue collar shift? It's gonna from one ghetto to the next, hardly a jarring shift in tone
Many disagree and for years S2 of the wire has been shat on, only recently being reevaluated.
>It isn't inherently bad to shift settings, but at least bring the good stuff people liked with you, or make it a brand new show if you want to do something different. Doin't tell your fans that its the next installment in their favourite shit and make it nothing like what they expected.
the show is an anthology. new stories was always the plan. there are plenty of through-lines between the three. catering to "fan expectations" at the expense of what you wanna do as an artist is the lowest form of groveling and those "fans" are flakes that don't matter
>Okay, bad example. How about a whole season of musical episodes? You knew what I fucking meant.
musical is vastly different in form and true detective does nothing like that. you can't point at any season of true detective and say it's the silent-movie season or the musical season or the 3d animated season. you're trying to justify a rigidly retreading by painting anything else as being outlandishly different

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>no you didn't. you said "good structures" (2 central leads) and "shit structures" (1 or 4 central leads)
that's not what I meant at all. I will decide what I meant, you can misread it if you want, but I know what I think about this show. The shit structures are no chemistry, following Frank and his woes rather than the case. Forced romance. Traffic cop is gay maybe.

>I can quote you saying they should not have made S2 or S3. And all you've given are shallow creative opinions with no regard to the reality of production. See:

K E K, that isn't me nigger

>It is.
no it aint, or McAdams wouldn't be the last one left standing or in it at all. Farrell And Vaughn working together throughout as a Marty and Cohle team might have been good.

>the show is an anthology. new stories was always the plan. there are plenty of through-lines between the three. catering to "fan expectations" at the expense of what you wanna do as an artist is the lowest form of groveling and those "fans" are flakes that don't matter
The through lines are what? Gritty, 8 episodes, shoutout on episode 4 for each season? Fans don't matter? Okay, fine, make it for yourself if you want and if HBO gives you the budget to make a wank project, its their money.

>musical is vastly different in form and true detective does nothing like that. you can't point at any season of true detective and say it's the silent-movie season or the musical season or the 3d animated season. you're trying to justify a rigidly retreading by painting anything else as being outlandishly different
I can point to one being a kino season and another being dogshit.

CONT...

It had potential, but ulti exposed Pizzaboi as a hack.

...CONT

I've said all I need to say.

>Season 1
>chemistry
>pacing
>good dialogue
>believeable relationships
>a murder plot that was chilling but believeable

>Season 2
>no chemistry
>a forced romance out of nowhere
>a third wheel detective
>a mob boss guy that was entertaining and had a hot wife but shouldn't be the detecting element in a detective story
>a convoluted plot
>forgettable villains (bird boi and the corrupt cops alike)
>McAdams trying to convince me she is some badass cos she doesn't shower and has some karambits
>Leave me to hope they nail the villain when the whole point of watching it is that they go nail their villain

And, *gasp*, it's not being set in California or increasing the size of the main cast that bugs me, I looked forward to Los Angeles and some Farrell action.

It's shit, you wanna tell me more of what I think or why I should find dogshit secretly appealing, then go ahead and waste you time, but considering you have read other anons and thought they were my posts, you are clearly a brainlet.

why was season 2 so good bros?

Chemistry isn't a structure. Frank's woes were caused by the case. More related to the case than the stuff with Maggie in S1. You can stop talking out your ass
>K E K, that isn't me nigger
I didn't say it was. I made that post
>no it aint, or McAdams wouldn't be the last one left standing or in it at all
You are so pants on head fucking stupid. Ray and Frank die and Ani lives because she isn't one of the two bros who do the heist
>Fans don't matter? Okay, fine, make it for yourself if you want and if HBO gives you the budget to make a wank project, its their money.
HBO already have thrice and are open to doing it again

>You are so pants on head fucking stupid. Ray and Frank die and Ani lives because she isn't one of the two bros who do the heist
I don't give a shit why she doesn't die, she is useles as a cahracter from teh start. You seem to think if only I can unravel some of my confusions over the series, I'd understand how it works and then I'd "get it". I understand who is bad and who is good, so to speak. I understand who died and why, I understand everyones motivations. I am missing nothing. IT. IS. SIMPLY. SHIT.

>I didn't say it was. I made that post
>I can quote you, see here:
I'm done with arguing with niggers, you are a brainlet.

Point out which posts are yours and which are someone else's. Because right now you are claiming that somebody in a 1 on 1 conversation stopped posting and you entered and replied for them - and it's my fault for not recognizing when we're all user

no need, the user, if thats you is mistaken about why I hate 2. He thinks I don't understand who the villain is. I tell him McAdams is uuseless and her leaving the conclusion on a cliff hanger is cos she wasn't killed thanks to not being a part of the heist. I don't care about the reasons, that's not my issue, she is useless. I have laid out my reasons well, you just replied to the very post. Adios nigger

>I don't give a shit why she doesn't die, she is useles as a cahracter from teh start. You seem to think if only I can unravel some of my confusions over the series, I'd understand how it works and then I'd "get it". I understand who is bad and who is good, so to speak. I understand who died and why, I understand everyones motivations. I am missing nothing. IT. IS. SIMPLY. SHIT.
You said the show isn't about Ray and Frank relationship because Ani survives. The they die and she lives as a consequence of that relationship.

>I didn't say it was. I made that post
>I can quote you, see here:
>I'm done with arguing with niggers, you are a brainlet.
Fuck you, you willfully misrepresenting cunt:
>I can quote you saying they should not have made S2 or S3. And all you've given are shallow creative opinions with no regard to the reality of production. See:
^
The post that I wrote is about the production realities of S2. I said I can quote you saying they should not have made S2 or S3 - notice how the post linked is not that.

I hope Nic makes nothing but shows you hate and you keep torturing yourself watching them or fuck off you weasel

>I tell him McAdams is uuseless and her leaving the conclusion on a cliff hanger is cos she wasn't killed thanks to not being a part of the heist
The conclusion isn't a cliffhanger. She hands the evidence to the Times reporter already on the beat of Vinci corruption then leaves to live her life

>Season 1
Time is a flat circle.
>Season 2
We get the world we deserve
>Season 3
ROLAN.. ROLAN... DEM KEEDS.. PUHCELL...

That’s unfortunate if nic was sick, but there was like 2-3 years time between the end of s2 and beginning of s3. Lot of folks have had to work on a similarly grueling timeline. Having the right team behind it (director, produced, photography) is also hard, but you can’t blame it all on environmental forces.

I don’t have specific budgetary numbers to cite, but I’d argue that hbo visibly values TD as one of its more valuable pieces of creative property, on level of GoT and big little lies for example. I don’t think hbo was setting it up for failure but I don’t put all the blame on nic for any shortcomings I felt about s3

To address your last point, s1 was certainly about partner cops facing the evil blah blah, but you could also argue that there was a theme of police folks looking back at their past and assessing it for clues about the mystery and sentiment about themselves. I think s2 preserved that to some extent, the persistence of ones past mistakes. And s3 certainly evolved on that in a cool way, bringing back the interview format (but differently, with the documentarian chick) and having the same timelines fortmat as s1.

>2-3 years time between the end of s2 and beginning of s3
nic was working on their Perry Mason show with Roberty Downy Jr. during that time and on the galveston film script - which the director basically threw away while filming whenever she felt like it. they were able to rectify some of the problems with s2 in 3 but not all - apparently arkansas was just a massive pain in the ass for some reason and saulnier took forever on his two episodes

and 3 hasnt been a failure its just a bunch of brainlets that are pissed at the finale. the reviews are actually better for the s3 finale than the s1 finale
>Lot of folks have had to work on a similarly grueling timeline. Having the right team behind it (director, produced, photography) is also hard, but you can’t blame it all on environmental forces
you can blame relative quality of one season to another on it. esp when the hbo president admitted they rushed it

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Is the Girl with a Dragon Tattoo a bullet character?

>I don’t have specific budgetary numbers to cite, but I’d argue that hbo visibly values TD as one of its more valuable pieces of creative property, on level of GoT and big little lies for example. I don’t think hbo was setting it up for failure but I don’t put all the blame on nic for any shortcomings I felt about s3
You would think. Don't know what Big Little Lies is but *nothing* pulls in GoT numbers.

I think HBO should, for a start, loosen up the schedule, let them finish all the episodes before airing, encourage use of real film, and not be so stingy with episode length. There's a whole subplot with Ray being drugged and interrogated by Black Mountain dudes in s2 that was cut, S1E6 was 90 minutes if Cary was allowed his cut, and the finale of 3 had at least 15 minutes of important stuff that Nic is trying to get put back in for the blu-ray.

I also think given how Nic really optimizes the story for the macro level and not an individual episode basis that they should just always air two episodes together (like David Simon's Show Me a Hero miniseries).

This whole weekly drip feed thing is a dumb relic that barely works for this type of stuff. Not saying I love the content on Netflix but that is the future we're heading to

It's good but the ending is really bad.
Still, better than 2 no matter what contrarian memers say. Basically

Definitely. Prime example.

Just finished S1. Instant top 3, is it rewatchable ?