If Gandalf and Sauron are the same kind of being, why is Gandalf so much weaker than Sauron?

If Gandalf and Sauron are the same kind of being, why is Gandalf so much weaker than Sauron?

Attached: 7qjvKyi.jpg (507x495, 246K)

Because Sauron spent his time getting more power while Gandalf spent his time smoking weed with hobbits.

Gandalf the grey got his power capped by God but Sauron always was the first of the Maia anyway

go read the books you insufferable fag

Sauron had been loitering about in Middle Earth since the Elder Days without any restrictions on his power, he was a Maiar in full form as a spirit who could change form and use powerful sorcery. He lost some of his full power when his body was destroyed in the second age though, and also when he created the One Ring he imbued his own power into it which meant he was vulnerable if it was taken from him. With the ring he was the most powerful being in Middle Earth.

The Istari (Wizards) were Maiar sent on a specific mission to help the people of Middle Earth, they were only intended to be guides, leaders and teachers and also gain reconnaissance Sauron's activities. When the power of two opposing Ainur clash in combat it causes catacylsms to the world, so Gandalf's masters didn't want this to happen again. The Istari were given physical bodies that could be killed by injury and made weary by the trials of the world just like men, but they did not die of old age. It was important for the purposes of stealth, as Sauron would know if some angelic beings arrived on the coast of Middle Earth and he would wage war on them leading to aforementioned cataclysms.

Once Gandalf was resurrected and became Gandalf the White he had nigh all his powers from Valinor restored to him. It's worth mentioning that not all Maiar and Valar are equal in power level. Gandalf was the most wise of the Maiar but Sauron was more might in power of arms and sorcery. If they fought one another with both their full power levels Gandalf would have probably lost.

Based lore-wise and patient poster.

If chihuahuas and pit bulls are the same species, where are chihuahuas so much weaker?

did this mother fucker just compare the saint-bernard of wizards to a god damn fucking chihuahua?

Attached: 1_EogrX7fTeb5zD21yUaJymg.jpg (1600x1200, 343K)

wrong he was never returned his full strength. If he had been it would have destroyed middle earth during their battle like it did last time Maia fought. Furthermore that would contradict Manwe’s orders. He’s still an istari as Gandalf the white, still not his true form

Based lore-wise and patient poster checking poster. Checked.

Debateable, I did say nigh his full strength. Meaning near his full strength, even if not as you say he was still much stronger as Gandalf the White and was much closer to his true Maia form while still being confined the body of an Istari.

>white wizard is the strongest one
what did tolkien mean by this?

>insufferable
If you want to learn the full history of a fictional setting then go for it. I'm just curious about a few things. Be more like this user

Why are Wizards so fucking boring in LOTR?
>dude you're not allowed to use your powers

Attached: 1535130936342.jpg (400x400, 42K)

He wasn’t even close to his Maia form as Gandalf the White, they would not have needed Frodo if that were the case. Considering Sauron is much weakened a full-fledged Olorin would have easily crushed Sauron by that point but he can’t bexause he’s not Olorin, he also never claims be Olorin and that’s how you know. He refers to himself as Gandalf the white, using his istari name. I don’t think you realize how powerful the Maia are. If Gandalf the White were a Maia, there would be no mistaking it and I doubt people could even interact with him without becoming paralyzed with fear.

could you make a cross-breed between the two? that thing would be the deadliest little shit the no fear of the chihuahua and the jaw and strength of the pit

>Sauron always was the first of the Maia anyway
wrong, first was eonwe, manwe's herald. then it was osse i think, power-wise. sauron was never particularly powerful

If you and any smart person are both humans, why are you such a retard?

Hell yeah you can.

Attached: Screenshot_20190304-090802_Chrome Beta.jpg (1080x1762, 776K)

>if me and Chad are the same kind of being, why am I an ugly manlet?

I'm not claiming he was Olorin or a full form Maiar as in an angelic spirt that can change form at will. I am saying he was close to his true Maiar power to the extent his physical Istari body could allow. Just because he doesn't use his full power in the books/movies doesn't mean it hadn't been imparted to him. In addition I didn't say he came back as Olorin, he still seems to have the lack of memory of his past existence in Valinor. All I'm saying is he is much more in line with his true nature in terms of power as Gandalf the White then he was as Grey.

>Considering Sauron is much weakened a full-fledged Olorin would have easily crushed Sauron
The problem of a direct assault on Sauron remains whether he was Olorin or not, he wouldn't decide to take that path even if he had full power. It would have caused damage to the world.

Just imagine how insufferable that breed would be. Holy shit

Tolkien didn't want his movie to be another basic cgi vs cgi boss battle.

jesus like land piranhas

nonsense Sauron is THE most powerful Maia, Tolkien conforms. Like Gandalf he had more than one Valar to learn from (Melkor/Aule) and his entire existence is about the pursuit of order and control so power is natural to that end. Gandalf meanwhile learned from 3 (THREE) Vala including Manwe so he’s the wisest. Olorin(Gandalf) is particularly weak as a Maia though power-wise, he’s a gentle spirit and the pursuit of power is not in his personality

how did he know about movies?

>Just because he doesn't use his full power in the books/movies doesn't mean it hadn't been imparted to him.
see that’s where you’re wrong kiddo, because Manwe nerfed the istari on purpose. Giving him all that power would literally defeat the purpose of sending him. He was squaring up with the witch king, if he felt it necessary to do more than snap his fingers and make the witch king disappear, then clearly he wasn’t near his best. Gandalf has more power than he did, and more insight into Eru’s plans, but the istari might as well be ants compared to the Maia elephants. They tear the world asunder just by moving through it

>if he felt it necessary to do more than snap his fingers and make the witch king disappear, then clearly he wasn’t near his best.
I think you're the one overestimating the power of the Maiar, Sauron was a Maiar at full power but was still defeated by the King of Numenor in the second age, and defeated again in combat by an Elf and and a Man.

He can look into the future

why didn't sauron think logically about his immortality?

Gandalf is more powerful than Sauron, Eru Iluvatar (god in lotr universe) actually wanted him to be to be the leader of the wizards from the start but he thought about himself he was unfit to rule, that's why he was sent back from the dead once Saruman failed his duty, kinda like "well, it's you now, like it or not" ... Answering your question, the wizards were sent to Arda weakened and in human bodies, they're restricted from using most of their power, they're only supposed to aid the people in defeating Sauron, not doing it themselves. That's the reason why Gandalf was afraid to even hold the ring, if it corrupted him, he would've been like ... 10x more powerful than Sauron

Eru had no part in sending the Istari

The king of Numenor never fought Sauron because Sauron was playing him from the beginning. Furthermore when he fought Gil-Galad and Elendil he was weakened by a considerable extent having spent so much time in Middle Earth and having imparted his essence into so many things; like Melkor he was a husk of his former self. Sauron fought toe to toe with the hound of Oromë (Huan) who was said to be able to kill any beast that walked the Earth; Sauron paralyzes Huan with fear despite that fact and wrestles with him until eventually being defeated. No other Maia could have come close to fighting Huan toe to toe, but Sauron is of course the greatest of the Maia just as Melkor was the greatest of the Ainur. Go read about the fall of Melkor and the damage the Maia caused to middle earth during his overthrow. Middle Earth itself was absolutely ravaged. Beleriend was completely submerged, the western mist point of middle earth used to be the eastern mist point of beleriend before the Maia started fighting there, no it’s literally all gone, under the sea. Thousands of miles of land gone in a moment. That’s the kind of power the Maia posess. So no, Gandalf doesn’t come close to that.

he sent Gandalf the white directly, superceding Manwe who would have just let him stay dead

*most, most, now

Sauron does literally nothing in lotr

Gandalf fights Balrog using magical powers

Huan could have killed 5 balrogs and been ready for another 5 after a quick nap. Sauron almost kills Huan.

He was playing the King, and surrendered as part of a ploy to destroy Numenor from within, I agree with that. But he only did that because he was outmatched by the Numenoreans, the fact that a king of men and his soldiers could threaten a fully unrestricted Maiar who could still shapeshift even if he had distibuted his power elsewhere into his servants, it still shows that Maiar were not necessarily as powerful as you describe. I think its also worth noting that Olorin wasn't even as powerful as Sauron is you compared both their original forms. Olorin was SCARED of Sauron even before the mission when Olorin was his full self; his true power came from his wisdom and mercy.

So if mortal men can defeat Sauron a Maiar with unrestricted power in Middle Earth I don't think its absurd to see that if Gandalf had close to full Maia power when he came back he would still not be as powerful as you describe.

>But he only did that because he was outmatched by the Numenoreans, the fact that a king of men and his soldiers could threaten a fully unrestricted Maiar who could still shapeshift even if he had distibuted his power elsewhere into his servants, it still shows that Maiar were not necessarily as powerful as you describe
m8 this is totally headcanon, once again a strategic surrender does not mean he was too weak to face them. He didn’t destroy the numenoreans because he wanted to rule them and use them against Valinor since he realized he could never make an ARMY that good. That doesn’t mean he was personally threatened by them, after all what’s stopping him from just shapeshifting and flying away? You can’t actually “capture” Sauron which is how you know he’s fucking with them the whole time.
>Olorin was scared of Sauron
Yes because he’s the greatest Maia to ever exist, chosen by the greatest Ainur to be his second in command, explicitly stated to be Melkor’s greatest servant and second to none in middle earth once he is gone. Even a full-fledged Olorin could not defeat Sauron, but by the end of the third age Sauron is much weakened so that might not be the case anymore.
>mortal men
Sauron was defeated by the King of Elves and the King of Numenoreans, and this is after losing a lot of his power, hardly “mortal men.” Afterall Kings are much more powerful than regular joes in the Tolkien universe and furthermore Sauron made himself vulnerable in a physical form. Had he not taken that form he would not have been defeatable. Sauron sets up his own failures quite a bit, it’s always his arrogance that leads to failure, not his weakness.

Since when was an old man a "being"?