Yea Forums's version of the Last Jedi would suck

>Thinking TLJ is any more subversive than ESB
Maybe YOU need to read the book.

Based

>based
Would have been cool to see Luke, Leia and Han together again for one last adventure

>N-NO U

I guess that's what illiterates like you think is a comeback

How was Empire Strikes Back subversive ?

ESB isn't subversive at all. No one expected Luke to beat Vader. The revelation of Luke's parentage is a plot twist. There are no subversion of expectations, you fucking retard.

That's YOUR version of TLJ retard. And you're right it would suck

De-emphasizes the new characters and makes it about plots nobody cares about

We wanna see Rey and rose tico doing amazing things nobody gives a shit about darth plagis or whatever

Plot twists are subversive by nature you absolutely brainlet

>defending a shitty strawman

Why, other than you're retarded?

I didn't say all subversive things are good. I'm just saying subversion does and always had a place in the franchise

Wew lad

Vased

He never said that, you can tell by reading his post

He did respond to a post that argued that all subversion is bad, however.

>When you don't have an argument so you desperately cobble together a straw man
i kek'd

>absolutely brainlet

*Absolute
Wow you sure got me

Yea Forums's version of TLJ would be about Luke discovering ancient jedi telepathy techniques so he could say Fuck Niggers to everyone in the galaxy at once

It is a little bit

New locations and set pieces without worrying about what star wars, as it was known in 1977, was is supposed to look like. If there were decades inbetween the two movies Yea Forums would bitch about walkers, ion canons, bombs falling down from tie bombers, anything really.

Vader is basically rewritten from a zealous gestapo dude the top brass doesn't take seriously, to a guy who kills at every sign of incompetence. And of course him being luke's father was a retcon.

Also everyone was expecting a feel good ending

>No one expected Luke to beat Vader.

That was literally what was going to happen with the cheap script that became splinter in the mind's eye. That was a typical outcome before they decided to elevate the material, you're full of shit.

You right, everyone knew who Vader was.

>le false dichtonony face

Splinter of the Minds Eye was always a B-Plan that was only relevant if Star Wars made no money or just enough to get away with a shitty sequel with far far less budget. To say something from it was part of the plan for a true Star Wars sequel is just wrong.

incredible. bravo op. you fixed it. you actually fixed it

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Wow this would have actually been pretty fun to watch.

>The victory at the end of New Hope is quickly wiped out (empire still dominant)
>The Jedi master isn't a warrior, it's a frogman monk who teaches philosophy
>Han's trusted old friend is a traitor
>Luke loses against Vader
>Vader didn't kill Luke's father, he is Luke's father
>They fail to rescue Han
Its pretty subversive, but so many years later it all seems obvious.

that's not subversive though. It would be subversive if Vader turned out to be the "good guy" or something

only the Yoda thing is subversive and even then thats a stretch.

See the problem is assuming my version of Star Wars doesn't discard all the disney sequel movies

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Actually, most of this is based.

Or a relative of the protagonist

The subversive material makes it more compelling not less compelling
Compare all of that to

>snoke was useless and boring
>snoje dies immediately
>Kylo still bad
>Rey is nobody
>Luke didn’t want to be found
>etc

I never saw this one, what's the joke

Futurely Sneed's

>Futurely Sneed's
>Fututely
>Future

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no
Vader being a good guy would be subversive
a character being a surprise relative to another character is a fairly common trope.

the victory in New Hope was never shown to be the end of the empire though.

This. And the difference is the majority of the ESB subversions were set up earlier in the plot so it wasn't just M. Night tier "what a twist" subversion.
>The victory at the end of New Hope is quickly wiped out (empire still dominant)
Never stated to be the case.
>The Jedi master isn't a warrior, it's a frogman monk who teaches philosophy
Pretty in line with a lot of what Obi-wan said in ANH
>Han's trusted old friend is a traitor
Leia's FIRST instinct upon landing is "I don't like this."
>Luke loses against Vader
Yoda and Obi-wan actually told him this would happen.
>Vader didn't kill Luke's father, he is Luke's father
Actual subversion, in many ways Star Wars has been ruined by this. Everyone want to try an make an "I am your Father" moment since then with a big reveal despite the fact the series besides that is pretty twist free. Even Lucas fell for it with making Leia Luke's twin.
>They fail to rescue Han
First thing Han talks about in the movie is having to go back to Jabba. The piper is finally being paid.

It wasn't at the time idiot. What movie do you think made it a replicatable trope?

Yeah, I should be clear that not all subversion is equal.

Empire Strikes Back is subversive because its act 2 of a trilogy. The twists surprise the audience, but more importantly they set up the third film. The Last Jedi's twists actually tear down the set up from the first film.

Honestly, the movie was there, cut out lightsaber flip, change it to Luke looks at the lightsaber with a mix of fear and grinning at it.

Keep the Luke mourns Han deleted scene and have him see his death through the Force, this makes him decide to train Rey.

In the lightsaber duel, Luke matches Kylo stroke for stroke and they have the greatest lightsaber duel where no swords cross ever, in the end Luke strikes Kylo and is revealed to be a apparition when Kylo grabs Lukes arms. Luke gives a wry smile and fades away giving Rey and the gang chance to escape.

Luke falls with a heart attack and the suns rise. A story of a life well lived, will Luke return as a force ghost? Luke gave Rey all of his secrets to win so she's gotta win right? Wait a second... Kylo has the thing from Snokes body he stole? Uh oh. Roll credits commence hype.

>unironically making this meme trying to imply that this would somehow be more ridiculous than what we got
>mfw

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God I can fucking smell the passive-aggressive asshurt that's emanating from the pic. And the best thing is that even though it's a purposefully retarded hyperbole no one actually asked for, it still manages to be better than TLJ
>at least tries to fix plotholes
>doesn't shit on the old characters just for the sake of being a dick
>builds the new characters and gives them background, even tries to solve JJ's mystery box bullshit
>gives a reason why Rey is so capable and proceeds to actually train her even more
Really, Han surviving like that after TFA would be the only glaringly out of place thing from that pic, the rest are just either too "obvious" and lazy or some weird EU fanwank, but not inherently bad. It's amazing how these morons manage to spot the stuff that sucked about TLJ and come up with things that would actually somewhat fix the issues, but because they are so fucking brainwashed they have to pretend it would be bad.

I WANT TO BE DAISY'S PUSYSLAVE !

The whole reason TLJ sucks is because it tries way too hard to be ESB according to the moron at the helm.

Oedipus ?

did people think Empire Strikes back was going to be the final movie when it came out?