What level of threat would Pennywise be in the DC universe?

>he's a complete jobber joke
In that respect he's just like Darkseid, Bill Cypher and a lot of other supposedly OMFG HE'S UNSTOPPABLE-type characters in fiction.

retarded clown

I suppose he would be on the parallax level, depends if we're talking of book or movie pennywise, since book is pretty week in comparation, but either way Pennywise could have problems with so many strong willed heroes in the DC universe

I dunno I don’t see how a gay kid and his friends could beat darkseid

>Billy Batson ve Pennywise

*vs

Discover the magical boy-band tune that banishes him from the dimension?

Sound familiar?

I don’t read comic books, I’m just here to bitch about black people

Kirby's Darkseid got mugged by a bunch of teenagers.

these types of threads are gay. kill yourself

Ok I’ve seen the page but I don’t really have an idea of the context

He had lost his powers at the time. But Kirby's take on him was literally just Space Nixon. Powerful but ultimately defeated by his own hubris and neuroses, because living incarnation of evil or not Kirby saw evil as pathetic and self-defeating.

Who would win? Pennywise or the Krazy Killer Klowns from Outer Space?

Superman actually had to deal with Parallax who was kidnapping kids and being creepy. I feel like he would defeat Pennywise than lock him up

HELP, THERE'S A BUNCH OF KIDS HAVING AN ORGY DOWN HERE! I'M NOT A PEDOPHILE! HELP!

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Honestly, he’s pretty outmatched in the DC universe and he’d probably realize this and try to keep a low profile until
Constantine gets wind of it.

Then he’s done for.

I don't know, I don't think John would be down for an underage kid orgy.

In deep lore terms Pennywise is a formless monster from between the spokes of reality, which means when he visits he doesn't necessarily conform to our rules, all of them are monstrous and absolutely devastate the real world but not many of them would be a true threat in a world with super powered people.
I don't think pennywise is a particularly powerful example of them, one of the smarter ones for sure though.

Fuck you, Pennywise!
I ain’t no Stanley!

Yea Forums does not read books I take it.

Depends on if the killer klown technology would work on Pennywise.

Also the killer klowns’s red nose is a big weakness. With Pennywise he can also shapeshift and you need to have a strong will to hurt him.

The more important question would be how many kids would die under Constantine’s watch or would It kill one of John’s friends?

OP used 2017 Pennywise

>how many kids would die under Constantine’s watch or would It kill one of John’s friends?

Both.

His real form is some Lovecraftian interdimensional entity, but he mostly acts here through a physical form that can feel pain and which can be pretty easily killed. Not even the spider, you trick it into a proper shape and it conforms to the rules of that shape. Turn him into Dracula and shove a stake through his heart, he's done. Shape changing and playing on your fears aside he's not going to do so well against people who are bulletproof. Superman's not going to give a shit if a bunch of Maine hicks fail to notice him fighting an evil monster because the monster's influencing them, he'll tear it in half. Problem solved.

The only way he'd really work as a villain is if you specifically put him up against kid heroes. He'd be a great Captain Marvel or Power Pack villain with a bit of tweaking.

>I don't know what jobber means
Go back

no

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You mean the book that points out that Pennywise is a smoke and mirrors sham crock of shit that preys only on scared children and which is beaten by the most basic and primal belief magic in existence? The one that tries to scare off seven middle aged boomers rather than use its limitless shapeshifting powers to kill them? The one that needs an escaped mental patient to actually do its dirty work? The "eater of worlds" that is only a few million years old which does nothing but eat children for three hundred years in a single town?

>B-but they had Gan's help to kill him!

One Above All/Presence.

>B-but muh Deadlights

Plenty of people in funnybooks who stare into the Abyss in and shrug it off. Bill and Richie do it. You might as well say he just zaps every single hero with the Deadlights to start with and never ever loses because he's the bestest. And then Ghost Rider penance stares at him.

how do you go on the Internet so much and not know what jobber means
Pennywise is the very definition of jobber as the Internet knows it, he's a joke

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And Kirby wasn't wrong.
In fact he was completely correct.

>”You sure this ritual will get rid of Pennywise, Mr Constantine?
>”Trust me, kid. I know rituals.”
Everywhere! Dead children everywhere!

>billy spots him during an encounter
>SHAZAM!
>no longer believes / forgets about Pennywise
>it’s a test for Billy and Mary to face a foe their powers are useless against.
Alternatively, IT would mostly be a teen titans level type villain, would be pretty cool to see him square off against a post-Nightwing Dick.

Based and redpilled

>Constantine
He should hope it's John that gets him. Hope.

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Uh no, she got fucked because the kids accidentally invoked the setting's equivalent of God through the Ritual of Chud and bound her into manageable form. The second time they did it intentionally and ended up actually killing It.

>He gets the Specter
>he turns Pennywise into a bunch of children having sex and dissolves him for committing pedophilia

THEY'RE DOING THINGS THAT ARE NASTIER THAN THE WASTE IN HERE, CHRISOM KING SAVE ME!

Wait, the Losers actually managed to kill It?
Haven't (and probably won't) see Chapter 2, but didn't the book have It wondering if it really was as superior as it thought after getting best the second time?

Speaking of which, since they are both cosmic creator powered, a battle between spectre and fate ought to be about who understands what the presence wants more, right? Like, if the presence's plan is more to bring a certain fate on the world, or to inflict a certain punishment.

King had a little aside in a later book where someone scribbles PENNYWISE LIVES in graffiti but yeah they did. Counteract the Deadlights with the Ritual of Chud (which is basically just clapping your hands and saying you do believe in fairies) and then there's nothing to stop you from fucking up its physical form, which kills it for good. Movie version was even simpler, you just call IT names until he shrinks down into a baby and you rip his heart out. They should have just killed him with a magical rock fight.

He'd be a Justice League level threat. That or Batman could take care of him.
Pennywise thrives of fear, and the lack of fear reduces his power, and Batman has overcome his personal fears when he fought scarecrows. That and he might need the assistance of Shazam
If a couple of kids can beat the shit out of Pennywise, Batman and Shazam can do the same

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Huh. I always thought it worked differently. Then again it's been a good while since I've read the book...
And holy shit THAT'S how the movie has It killed? What other shit did it do?

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I need that thread image.

The Ritual of Chud is now just some crap the local Indians came up with to try and seal him away in a magic jar, which failed miserably. Mike lies to all his friends and tries to make them go through with it because he thinks that they can make it work, and because the guys adapting this really hated Mike for some reason. IT's not a giant spider because it's pregnant, he's a giant CGI spider because they needed a dumb video game boss at the end. They cut out that really cool part where Ben just goes around squishing its eggs for an hour. Also Ritchie's gay now for Eddie now but it doesn't really change or affect anything.

Bill's married but she doesn't come to Derry so his old crush on Bev amounts to nothing and he doens't do the Hi Ho Silver thing to bring her back from the Deadlights. Also he gave Georgie the boat because he didn't want to play with him and he's felt guilty ever since, which does sort of work. Bev's husband gets the same treatment, he doesn't come to Derry, start hallucinating he's Bev's father and then have Pennywise Deadlight him until his eyes burst and his brain implodes.

Honestly you could have started these movies like the book and just split it into two 2 hour films and it would have worked a lot better.

Pennywise vs Man in Black

Wow. That's a pretty damn big let down. Especially in comparison to the 2017 movie.

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>can only be killed in a battle of wills
>universe has thousands of Green Lanterns
DC would be fine.

Haley Quinn would be immune to Pennywise’s Dead Lights

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Also Bill was gay for Eddie, I dunno if it was reciprocated.

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But they do make it work, the Indians tried the ritual and Pennywise killed them, when the Losers change it to force Pennywise to take a weaker shape, it works and they kill him. The movie manages to convey the clown is just a puppet of the Deadlights, and that things have to obey the rules of the shape they take. The 90's miniseries didn't do that, it didn't explain that the silver shot worked because their belief made Pennywise subject to the rules of a werewolf, because that's what they thought he was, and it's how the battery acid inhaler worked as well.

Also, Richie being gay for Eddie isn't a thing.

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I thought it was Ritchie that was gay for Eddie?

>Batman destroys the entire Justice League

Based and Niggered

Wrote the wrong one, my bad

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No problem.

No, the ritual was to snuff out the Deadlights in a fucking soul jar. They don;t do that, that doesn't work. Eddie gives them the idea to change his shape and take advantage of that weakness, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the ritual.

>has a flashback where he stares at Bowers' cousin and Bowers calls him a fag
>Pennywise threatens to tell everyone about his dirty little secret
>Ritchie carves his and Eddie's initials into a fucking heart on lovers lane
>Ritchie is the one who refuses to leave his body behind and cries the most over his death
>it's not a thing though

Thread peaked here.

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TAG IN! TAG ME IN!!!

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I might be remembering wrong but it looked more like he was freshening up the initials more than carving them in for the first time.

Ya'll motherfuckers need to read. It feeds off fear, and children are the easiest to make afraid. If It is in the DC universe It would still prey on children from a safe tear in the dimensions. It won't be going toe to toe with fucking capes like this retard says because It isn't some brain dead cape villain. You might have John Constantine show up, lose, and bugger off but that's the best you can hope for.

Could be a neat crossover with the Challengers of the Unknown or something to do with the Super Young Team

Yeah, it's pretty explicitly a thing.

What'd you guys think about the Stephen King scene? I saw him in the background and thought it was cute, and then the whole scene happened and I wanted to hate it so bad, but got such a weird joy from it.

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>m-muh Horror is way better than capeshit!

Specter could kick his ass.

What about kid superheroes like the Teen Titans or Super Sons (Before Jon aged up)? Could they stand a chance and do the ritual of Chud?

Just let Hal take care of this bitch.

Would Maturin be there too?

And which version of It would it be?

>Specter
I mean, the nigga is the wraith of god itself. If It merged with the DC universe would that mean Specter becomes the avatar of Mataurin? If so GG.

It would pretty much be It the book. As long as their afraid of It they can't hurt It, it's not until they break their fear would they be able to kill It. And remember at anytime It can breakout the deadlights and game end you right then and there unless you're immune to cosmic horror. Beating it really comes down to this youtube.com/watch?v=cCr2YGSv634

The only reason that the losers could defeat pennywise was because of the turtle. The dark tower mentions the turtle a lot as it cares about people and is the natural enemy of it.
The clown cant be killed because it's not of reality and more like an incubus. One of its eggs hatched in the dark tower world and nearly made that gang laugh to death.
The clown is seen after his death by the infected in tommy knockers. They said it was a clown with silver eyes looking at them from the drains.
In dreamcatcher mr grey is stopped from destroying the town by it. No confrontation happens but he warps reality to keep pipes from being messed with.
Pennywise has other appearances in other books but not as direct as these links

>If It is in the DC universe It would still prey on children
You say this, like there aren't child Superheroes in DC.

>John
>lose
Haha, fuck off, Constantine would win. It might take sacrificing the souls of the kids he is supposed to be saving in the short-term, but he'll make that sacrifice into a long-term solution. It's what he does. And if he feels he can't do it alone he'll bring in Zatanna and others. If he is very unlucky it's a Batman crossover movie. Imagine if the poor fuck turned into Joe Chill?

Comic or otherwise.

A jobber is someone that loses a fight for the sake of propping up some other fighter. Celestials in current Marvel are jobbers for shit like making Cates' OC Knull look cooler, Pennywise hasn't jobbed for anything like that.

Ok, so the first part script of IT having gay undertones for Ritchie and Eddie was actually legit.
Ok, this is just so fucking bizarre.

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Unless Constantine was brought up in DC Derry he wouldn't even know what he's going up against. He'd have to be drawn by one of the kids, who wouldn't be able to draw him because adults can't understand It without being exposed to It. He'd have to come completely on his own, during a feeding cycle, to Derry or whatever dimensional tear built around a settlement It is residing at and only then figure out how to channel Mataurin, or figure out the cheat code of breaking the cycle of fear, but if he's not a target of It that doesn't do shit which means, channel Mataurin.

And if It is let loose in DC without Mataurin following there's no fucking way without a stupid asspull of, "UH DC god did this because he newer god and It old god,' which honestly is sad that you can manage to be a worse writer than full Coked up Stephen King.

Pennywise is gonna go after billy batson at least once
He won’t last 30 seconds

*deads your lights*

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can't even defeat green lantern, who is immune from fear.

Heh.

Why would you read 1000+ pages of cheap paperback trash? If you're sitting down to read an actual book, read the good stuff, not YA/boomercore.

He doesn't need to scare them though nor does he feed on fear, he uses fear to marinate the meat in the books

kek

I mean your first paragraph just perfectly outlined how Constantine usually works. Thanks for making my point for me.

The Losers can’t fully kill IT even with the intervention of two cosmic entities on their side, one of whom died choking on galaxies, so I’d argue it has more plot armor than Batman.

Also, IT is probably a girl so she can just say Bob Gray told her to kill all those kids and she’ll get her own ongoing and a sequel to Suicide Squad.

Wrong, Bev has had Mike in her too.

I would think he would be pretty powerful. Isn't the only reason that the kids were able to defeat him was that they were helped by another cosmic-level entity?

Or did they change that in the movie?

Leave Darkseid to me

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The power of friendship and not fearing it subdued and defeated Pennywise, cosmic turtle power killed Penny.

Billy becomes an adult on the outside but is still mentally a kid so he wouldn’t forget Pennywise. He also has the Wisdom of Solomon so that may help.

Killer Klowns are a race of aliens that worship Pennywise and try to mimic his looks.

O I am laffin

As far as we know he is the only other dimensional/alien being in his universe. DC has other entities like this; he would not be as much of a threat.

His chief rival would probably be someone like Bat Mite desu.

an user pointed out that there's a 4th, green ball of light that comes down after the deadlights die out, and that the spear Eddie uses against IT glows green at its tip shortly after he grabs it
So turtle might be canon in the movies, he just doesn't get explained

Basically yeah, Eddie is attacked by Pennywise as the Leper who pushes him against the wall, Eddie pushes back and starts strangling the Leper and overpowering Pennywise until it pukes on him and then Eddie runs.

Later Eddie is dying from Giant Spider Penny he mentions how he nearly got him, he had his hands around his throat and he just seemed small and scared. This coupled with the psuedo-cryptic message they got claiming "All living things must abide the laws of their shape." they kind of realise that Penny is only as strong as the shape he turns into, if he turns into a leper guy, he is only as strong as a leper and can be killed just as easily.

So they come up with a plan to lure Pennywise into the tunnels where he can't be a giant spider, he has to be something smaller and then they might be able to overpower him as a group. This however doesn't work as he just giant-spiders over them and cuts them off stopping them getting into the tunnels.

So they go "Hey, there is more than one way to make someone feel small :^).." and then they yell at Pennywise calling him mean names. At this point he is a 30ft tall Spider-Demon so I don't know why he doesn't just kill them like he has been trying to, but apparently calling him mean names (Although mostly they just call him a clown over and over) makes Pennywise feel less confident and them less scared of him so his form changes to reflect that, shrinking down at the abuse until he ends up a deflated clown baby while they yell at it. They find his living heart and crush it, killing him. Which is strange since it seems to imply that he is the Deadlights and everything, including the heart is just part of th shapeshifting goop, but evidently killing the heart kills Penny, I guess that comes to the whole "All living things must abide the laws of their shape.", you want a physical living body? You got to have a physical beating heart

>As far as we know he is the only other dimensional/alien being in his universe
he isn't though. all stephen king's works take place in the same multiverse, and IT isn't the only outsider being

And then Ghost Rider uses his Penance Stare BUT IT DOESN'T WORK!

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Yeah, he's special because he's in Kingverse which doesn't have nearly as much of cosmic horrors running around and they keep low profile
Comic book worlds and especially DC have metric tons of them, he wouldn't be anything special or particularly scary as those world are already exposed to them and deal with them regularly
Pennywise would keep preying on mentally weak people and better hope he doesn't attract attention of any moderately competent magician

>he

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You really think DC doesn't have an array of eldritch horrors or characters are powered by fear huh

Cute

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There were a couple times john threw in the towel instead of solving the problem

But the entire point in the book is that your fears are bullshit and you can just curbstomp a motherfucker.

>Movie version was even simpler, you just call IT names until he shrinks down into a baby and you rip his heart out.
That's way worse.

tbf, the book does go to certain extents to show that if they hadn't had the backing of multiple cosmic deities, they'd be dead and having their souls be dabbed on by the deadlights for eternity. The stakes are a lot higher with Pennywise than most DC villains, who typically just kill you and you're dead.

Depends on the TT roster.

Isn't Pennywise one of the monster who used to attack the Tower or some shit like that as well? It's been ages since I read that clusterfuck of a series.

He's a demon elemental and maturin is his opposite. in terms of power, he's pretty much right after dis (satan) and then gan ("captial G God"). If IT chose too, it would end the DC universe with pretty much no effort

IT is a Demon Elemental, an All-Timer much like Gan and Dis (but obviously infinitely weaker). Death doesn't exist for it.

A lot of this thread is people who haven't read the book reciting shitty memes or otherwise saying shit that never happened.

Maturin, ITs opposing Beam Guardian, helped them out and gave them the Ritual of Chud the first go around. When they come back as adults for the second round, Maturin has passed away so Gan steps in to provide the necessary boost thry needed to best IT.

>Maturin, ITs opposing Beam Guardian

no it's not, the Bear Shardik is. how are people getting such wrong random hodgepodge of shit about this

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Fairly certain that Shardik is dead by the tiem of the novel, and IT only ever expresses the idea of Maturin opposing it. For all intents and purposes, Maturin is the Beam Guardian that's fighting against IT.

If they all take place and the same universe and he’s not the only one, then it doesn’t make any sense at all that he hasn’t crossed paths with the others.

...

the four exists outside of time, so the time of the novel is irrelevent

Sounds like there should be an entire world of creatures like Pennywise out there then.

I do know of one other, known as Mother of the Null or something.

There are. IT has an offshoot known as Dandelo who i believe uses laughter as it's spice instead of fear that Pennywise does. He makes his victims laugh to death essentially.

*piano noises*

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The Teen Titans are too dysfunctional as it stands, and Jon and Damian alone can't form a ka-tet strong enough to take It on.

And those deities are basically just "if you believe in good things you'll be ok."

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They explain Mike's plan better in the making of book:

>Mike saw that during the childhood fight with IT, Bill was able to hurt IT with the cattle gun, despite it not being loaded. Mike realised that so long as the kid's believed that something could hurt IT, then it would work. That's why he defaced the side of the jar that depicted IT murdering the natives. The 'Ritual' was never going to work, but the Loser's Club belief in the Ritual would cause it to be successful. The power wasn't in the Ritual, it was in the Losers. Only it didn't work like the cattle gun because he knew it was a lie, ironically it's because he didn't believe in the Ritual that it failed. The tokens was just a quest to gt them to rediscover their inner child and the power they once had.

No? Just believing in something isn't enough to defeat IT. That's why the Ritual of Chud was needed in the first place, and even that wouldn't have worked if the Losers hadn't already form a minor ka-tet to use it in, along with Maturin and Gan backing them up.

Jon can punch him

he's beneath Parallax

that's cheating.

Mad about this cause I really didn’t like how in the movie it just seemed Mike lied to them

Probably wouldn't work. Pennywise's form is only really tangible when it decides to make it so, or if you've locked it into a single form in the perceptions of all who are observing it, which forces it to adopt the rules of that form.

As it stands, IT could simply turn Jon's tongue into pus, or give him advanced Kryptonite ass-cancer. Or IT could just shift into something like Darkseid and kill him.

You don’t wanna underestimate Kryptonians, ain’t gonna work for you.

>tries to kill Bruce/Clark's kids.
>dies.

That was fast.

There's nothing to "underestimate" here. Jon simply cant hurt it on his lonesome, whilst IT can do any number of things to him.

If IT absolutely needs to, IT could simply drop the facade and toss his soul screaming into the Deadlights.

>If IT absolutely needs to, IT could simply drop the facade and toss his soul screaming into the Deadlights.
How do the Deadlights compare to say, the Phantom Zone?

They're a universe-dwarfing mass of caustic soul-destroying eldritch lights possessed of a completely malevolent will and act as the closest thing our minds can get to the true nature of IT. Getting thrown into them is basically game over.

Dials Go Up To 11 around these parts

Kek

>Pennywise: Don't get ahead of yourself just because you managed to defeat my smalltime companion Henry Banewers
Batman: Pennywise, you're small time.

and then Pennywise died and this fotm floated away forever

Sounds like he'd get conned out of his shoes by Constantine in the end

Nah, IT will shapeshift into Catwoman, causing him to say "Cat" and then she'll say "Bat" and It'll have him stuck in that BatCat loop before It sends someone after him.

this guy is 90 percent forehead and that's dumb
widows peaks are scary for a whole another reason

The Deadlights are basically consumption given form.

In King's universe, IT/the Deadlights exist outside our universe. They live in the macroverse. Only a form of the Deadlights bled into our world and fell into Derry, becoming what we know as IT.

IT's natural enemy is Maturin, a turtle like being responsible for most of creation. This is a being that spews up entire galaxies (in fact, it ended up choking to death on one.) Maturin was the great creator. The Deadlights are the eternal counterpart to Maturin's creation. The Deadlights consume what the Turtle creates. A grand total of one person has looked into the Deadlights and escaped with their sanity, and that's only due to the temporary death of IT.

When discussing IT powerlevels, you normally have to decide if you're talking about the tiny form that inhabited Derry, or the Deadlights that live far beyond our plane of existence. What died in the film/book/miniseries was only a tiny piece that fell off the main form.

Maybe the Justice League Beyond Green Lantern who is also a child? You've got fear vs willpower combined with child vs child predator.

That tiny piece was also responsible for the mass-extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs.

Isn't he just a big demon spider? Worlds that have magic people that can fight demons can handle him.

The Spider is just the female facet of ITs avatar self. See and for stuff detailing what IT is really like.

He seems like something that would appear in a random Sandman issue and be ignored or forgotten immediately after. Like some demon creature that eats a couple people in a small town but told as a fable to teach the reader some lesson.

Or a random thing Constantine might encounter in an old abandoned building.

Typically Spectre slaps him away and goes back to what he is doing without much of a notice. Fate has never been more than a speedbump anytime they have encountered each other.

That only happens when Nabu himself isn't involved.

In that case his biggest rival might be The Joking Man.

/thread

part 1 was already a let down with the terrible looking cgi made the supposed scary scenes look like shit or funny instead.
low budget as it was, the mini serie is still better

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Cosmic level.

>People trying to talk up the deadlights

They're effectively a knock off version of the gods of chaos from Moorcock's work.

They're a primordial malevolent force that has to play by the rules of a clockwork universe.

how much of a danger would pennywise/IT be in the marvel universe?

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Unironically Batman could beat this guy

Spectre has less rules put on him than Nabu, who is a God of Order.

Nabu would fucking merc the Spectre otherwise.

You don't know what you're talking about, and the fact that you're trying to compare Dark Tower stuff to Moorcock is fucking laughable. Fuck off.

He's basically a knock of Knull, who is lame as shit.

Being what it is and how fucking flimsy Marvel is when it comes to things outside its cosmology, IT's basically untouchable.

The Dark Tower is an almost direct ripoff of Moorcock's work. Deal with it.

Name one similarity between them. I'll wait.

Or on the other hand, Thor being Cosmic Jesus destroys him utterly.

The Avengers could beat him in like 3 issues at most

>Cosmic multiverse around a central hub being fought over by cosmic gods of order and chaos with a dubious anti-hero caught in the middle being the key to restoring balance.

Thor isn't anywhere near the level of power of a Beam Guardian, which is the bare minimum you need to is much as inconvenience IT.

That trope is fucking older than Moorcock. And neither Gan nor Dis are "order and chaos" like how Moorcock defined them. 0/10 bait.

>That trope is older than fucking Moorcock.

But Moorcock popularised it, and added the trope of Anti-hero to be a parody of the heroes journey.

Which Dark Tower also is.

Also, Thor is literally the strongest thing in Marvel Universe and has rewritten reality rather consistently, so read more comics you Stephen King fag.

>STICKS AND STONE MAY BREAK MY BONES, BUT WORDS WILL STRIP ME OF MY ANTEDILUVIAN STARSPAWN POWERS, LAYING ME BARE AND DEFENSELESS AS A FETUS SQUEEZED OUT IN A BACK ALLEY DUMPSTER WITHOUT SO MUCH AS A SECOND THOUGHT

>That trope is older than Moorcock.

Go ahead, name an older story with that exact fucking plot.

Moorcock practically invented the modern idea of the Anti-Hero.

Thor is the god all gods in Marvel pray too.
He's the Jesus to Jack Kirby as god.

>But Moorcock popularised it, and added the trope of Anti-hero to be a parody of the heroes journey.
user, jsut because 40k cribbed his work doesn't mean he "popularised" it. We've had order and chaos fighting each other from shit to the Night Land, to fucking ancient Egypt. All of which predate Moorcock. The concept is not new. And neither is the idea of an anti-hero.

> Thor is literally the strongest thing in Marvel Universe and has rewritten reality rather consistently, so read more comics you Stephen King fag.
Rewriting reality is something even shitter villains like Tak can do. And they are no Beam Guardians. Try again.

Night Land.

>Marvel gods
>strong

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Do you mean the Night Land by William Hodgson? That's nothing at all like either the Dark Tower or Moorcock's Stormbringer series.

That's a Horror Sci-fi novel for one.

How can you have all the dumb esoteric trivia but not get that the bad guy is gonna lose because he’s the bad guy.

The Night Land isn't about Order vs Chaos you fucking chud; It's about humanities fears of the dark and death being the most long lasting and primordial fears.

And I never said Moorcock created these concepts or the concept of the Anti-hero.

I said he created the modern idea of these concepts existing, as well as the idea that Order and Chaos were both equally terrible in their absolutes.

The Dark Tower is Stephen King reversing the mirror on Moorcock's work, which was in turn a reversal of Conan and Lord of the Rings.

>Implying anyone will remember this in a years time.

Not the real One Above All.

>That's nothing at all like either the Dark Tower or Moorcock's Stormbringer series.
>ancient chaos opposed by powers of order fight over a broken cosmos whilst a belligerent 'hero' follows the will of one side and embarks on a dangerous journey
Yeah, no. They're similar enough and are founded on similar principles.

>That's a Horror Sci-fi novel for one.
Both Stormbringer and Dark Tower have horror and sci-fi elements, dumbass.

See above. Also, your whole garbage fire of a first post was you acting smug and trying to pretend that Moorcock somehow had a stranglehold over the concepts to the point the Dark Tower was a "ripoff" of his shit.

Fucking Tolkien used the exact same concepts in his work, you retard. And more people know him and his stories than they do fucking Elric.

Pennywise sucks.

>muh "heroes always win"

So all those times Nabu tried to stop the Spectre and was bitchslapped just didn't count?

Yet another one of many MANY many random demonic cosmic beings that lands on Earth and stirs up some shit.

He does not stand out in any significant way. Dr Strange or Thor handles him pretty quickly.

Fate =/= Nabu

One time villain to pic related

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>What level of threat would Pennywise be in the DC universe?

He would be a street-level bitch that wouldn't even ping the radar of DC's heavy hitters.

Except the moronic sex stuff happened after they had already defeated him.

>They're founded in similar principles

But they're not though. You're just the typical Kingfag who is butthurt the Dark Tower isn't as unique as you thought.

The Dark Tower is King injecting his pussy child level understanding of psychology into the Stormbringer universe.

Apparently, they'd have gotten lost in ITs lair in the sewers otherwise.

Still really fucked up.

'K. Enjoy your Moorcock.

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It sounds like you don't understand the concepts behind Moorcock's Stormbringer series if you think the Dark World is anything like those.

And yeah, Dark Tower is pretty much PG13 Stormbringer with a disney ending.

I actually really fucking hate Moorcock and his whining, but I like the series for what it's done.

I'm just not an asshat who pretends it's not a massive influence on the structure of Dark Tower.

As I said: enjoy your Moorcock.

About Joker level shenanigans and his rival would be Batman - all of Batman's villains represent a form of Mental Illness and Pennywise/It is a metaphor for childhood trauma.

>all these kids in the northeast are getting murdered in a cycle that is always a certain amount of years
>nope, no way would the 5 billion cape "detectives' want to find out why

I feel you're just getting petty now. Why do Stephen King fans always get so petty?

I mean if you want to argue more, Solomon Kane is probably a bigger influence than Stormbringer, but Dark Tower was pretty obvious when drawing it's sources.

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It was funny seeing him self-deprecate himself in a fun manner.

Yes, they would have, but it didn’t help them defeat him in anyway

Pretty sure it is some exiled reject of his race who's so weak he can only really hunt children

There's only like, four Demon Elementals and each is something entirely unique. Not really sure you can count them as a "race."

No, it was when they only wounded him. They had to come back and finish the fight.

Let me rephrase.

It was when they thought they had defeated him.
It still had nothing to do with the actual fight itself.

The sad part is they had practical effects and all of IT's forms had actual actors. Even the Flute Lady was an actress in full make up. They just added needless CG to each one. They even brought on a contortionist girl for the Pennywise Fridge scene. Georgie actually got dragged into that storm drain on a wire. The film had tons of practical effects and costumes, they just had CG overlays. Only the balloons were fully digital.

Nah

IT is part of a species of emotion eaters

In TDT one tries to make the protagonists laugh to death

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Dandelo is implied one of ITs spawn. It's not an actual Demon Elemental.

Are we differentiating between IT as Pennywise, or IT as the Deadlights, a demon elemental that dwarfs the known universe in its native form? Because Pennywise was defeated/killed, and the Deadlights merely lost access to that level of the Tower -- though later books implied IT found another way back in and was residing again in Derry.

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He's literally both sex

This sucks but I hate this even more

>gets raped by local police department

>agent bullock farts in your eye after the whole force deflates you with laughter

I like to think of Pennywise being a memory of a man the Deadlights possesed way back, and that IT is a being whose mind is on the outside of its body.

>who would be his rival?
P A R A L L A X
Think about it, they'd have to compete for fear. Or would Pennywise go yellow?

Makes sense though. Pennywise has a kind of area of effect that lets him erase your memories the further away you get from Derry. Think Maxwell Lord. Becoming aware of his presence brings back your memories of him gradually so once that happened he'd be fucked.

They're both based around the byronic hero archetype originating in the tragic Finnish folk-hero Kullervo?

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How would Flagg fare in the DC or Marvel Universe?

after his defeat in chapter 2? A toddler in a bad mood could take him out.
Its like the movie knew the ending was shit so they just kept saying it all throughout

IT only cares about the fear of kids, and IT only really focuses on Derry. IT would give zero shits about Parallax.

What can he do?

He can fuck

Pennywise is infinity powerful, but is also never unbeatable. He's a strong as whatever you fear most, but at the same time, will lose his power if he's not feared. His reality bending is strong enough to fight off the god that created him, but will crumble like dust when exposed to love and friendship.
The DCU is probably the last place he wants to be.

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>A being that relies on fear to exist.
>Vs the kid with the courage or Achilles
Seems fair.

Normal Superman would be enough. Hell, Batman would be enough.

He's not a jobber, he just adjusts to the CR of whatever party he's facing.

Do you know what we call something like that?

You know, I think it would be more interesting if he was taken out by somebody completely random and unexpected. Like he was canonically.

How about The Shining Knight.

Daredevil would curb stomp his ass.

Superman and Batman just die when IT drops the disguise, like it does for literally any adult who somehow catches on.

Vigilante just shoots the fucker.

"Silver bullets. I know a guy."

The Soldiers of Victory all celebrate with a pint at the Winchester, then...

*27 years later*

Shining Knight has superpowers, though, doesn't he?

>27 years later.

"I've been expecting you. Get back in that fucking sewer."

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Batman or Superman wouldn't be afraid of him. Hell Superman would be invincible to him since he's just an Alien.

"Oops!"

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Pennywise vs Hal Jordan, Sinestro(still a GL), Captain Marvel, Zatanna, and John Constantine back in the 50's in everyone's prime.

Pennywise comes back 27 years later.

Sinestro has the yellow ring, Zatanna and John are on bad terms, Billy is a grown man now who isn't in as good of shape as when he's Captain Marvel, and Hal is all saltnpepper'd.

Pennywise gets stomped the fuck out obviously. Sinestro calls in PARALLAX and they have an Eldritch Monster Titan "Kaiju" Battle.

They might actually fight. IT’s true form is some sort of cosmic demon that wants to tear down the Tower right? Parallax is, technically, a natural force of the universe. Even though it’s also the only emotion entity that didn’t go off with Kyle to refill the reservoir outside the sourcewall sustaining existence, that lazy shit.

He’s an antichrist type with some subtle mystic hoodoo that eventually dies to a spider demigod crawling out of him right? I can see him as a MUCH better unstoppable villain type than the Batman Who Laughs to DC’s street cape scene, with maybe a cameo from Constantine or Zatanna to figure out a ritual that can put him under or another entity that can hijack him.

He’s at least event, likely full on Ruins/Cancerverse-tier bad future level Marvel, though-not from sheer power but from demagoguery and the fact most Marvel heroes at least adopt a pretence of not killing entire countries until they think they have no other option. Even putting Secret Empire aside, Marvel civilians are apparently genetically predisposed to riot against anything out of a flimsily defined and inconsistent norm.

I know we’re all supposed to hate Snyder, but doesn’t literally everything in DC have traces of that magic hope metal that does the impossible from Dark Nights Metal, with some z-listers like Plastic Man having an especially high concentration of it?

Yeah, considering how low key the Ritual of Chud was in the book Pennywise probably sticks to being a bottom feeder in the Dark Multiverse or the nastiest alleys of Bludhaven just because it’s too dangerous to stray too far into the light.

>Pennywise jumps a random fat man in an alley who turns around slowly and says ”Bueno”

How would Pennywise deal with the Gentry since he would be "dropped in" into the DC universe meaning he's in their medium now?
Or the Monitors?
Or even something that does the same thing he does but better aka Parallax?

>the Gentry
The same way Sivana “dealt” with them I imagine: Become part of their attack without even noricing it

>Monitors
Depends on how smart they fight. They were all idiots during Countdown but Nix Uotan shut down Mandrakk in a way that would likely shut down Pennywise on all fronts, I’m 99% sure the Seven Unknown Men are the monitor mages Morrison has alluded to with his cosmic grail and Mandrakk might just fucking eat Pennywise’s story

>Parallax
I...think that one depends on whether the writer remembers he can screw up time and space, or if he’s just treated as Parallax’s pokemon except traded up for some sort of predatory invisible sun

That is a good point. I've never understood why Marvel civilians will cheer on Alpha Flight, but want to lynch the X-Men (at least iterations before they always had a fag on the team)

Superman's fought worse, and Batman's literally built up a chemical immunity to fear.
Worst case scenario is they get put in a dead lights trance and Billy has to save them.

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>Plastic Man
>Z-lister

Superman's stronger

The Alpha Flight has government propaganda FOR them.

like three specific people are the root of nearly all anti-mutant propaganda, Trask, Strucker, and whatshisface. News outlets reported on what they said, and the general attitude of the public is that if the newspapers are writing about it then it must be legitimate.
and basically every response to this initial wave of propaganda has made things worse.
Xavier hid his mutant abilities so that mutants could have a prominent non-mutant advocate, so when that got exposed as a lie it sent a message of "everyone who criticizes anti-mutant sentiments is secretly a mutant"
Magneto, even before he actually began comitting terrorism, called his group "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" so that anybody who actually called them that would look like an anti-mutant bigot. I guess he figured any non-bigot would just call them "The Brotherhood of Mutants" and assume the evil part was a mistake or see it for the bait it is.
and Cyclops founded X-Factor, which he marketed as an anti-mutant hotline that you could call to just whisk any mutants to jail, when it was secretly a pro-mutant recruitment ring. and sure, the X-Men got a bunch of new members out of it that might have been lynched otherwise, but that ad campaign was undeniably succesful and it taught a generation of Americans that the proper response to mutants is to SWAT them and it'll make the problem go away.

even dumber things happened later, but I'll argue they couldn't have happened without these things happening.

Thats one of the things I like about Marvel, the alternate history that emerges. The setting is filled with "Assassination of Archduke Ferdinand" type scenarios the ripples of which still impact modern stories, even if a given writer isn't thinking about that

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>courage of Achilles
always seemed strange to me, Achilles wasn't courageos, he was an outright insane bloodfiend

mind you, not that there's anything wrong with that, Achilles, both Ajax', Diomedes >>>> likes of Odysseus, Hector and so on

based
His reality bending is strong enough to fight off the god that created him
??

Isn't Flagg de facto supposed to be much more, in a way of Nyarlathoptep? A herald and soul in the world for the Crimson King?

Yeah I mean
>demigod
>invulnerable
>divine weaponry and armor
>fighting mostly mortals
Doesn't take a whole lot of courage.

It accidentally stumbles on Billy Batson and gets turbo fucked.

well to be honest he didn't really care, and I don't think that - in Illyad - he was even aware about the whole heel thing

Achilles feared no foe, not even Ares the humansona of war itself.
Yes, Achilles was also a deranged lunatic, but thats what the Wisdom of Solomon is for; to ensure that while Marvel is immune to fear he doesn't go full retard

I said "insane bloodfiend" as in somebody who is so far beyond courage that it stops being a virtue but becomes a vice - see Aristotle's moral theory

>Losers down to 5 since Stan is dead and Mike is in the hospital
>ka-tet is much weaker plus they're weaker as a whole because they're all adults
>The Turtle is dead and can't help the Losers
>Losers still demolish Pennywise and even Richie goes into the Deadlights to rescue Bill

Pennywise a shit. He even ends up crying and begging the Losers not kill him. LMAO

In the book, Steven King takes the form of a turtle to speak to the kids directly and basically says "Hey, sorry about all this. I wish I hadn't made this thing but it's too strong to unmake now."

Older definitions of courage were closer too "will keep fighting when others won't".
Why do you think the triforce of courage gives Link so many hearts?

I still don't understand how people could maintain the cognitive dissonance of "superheros good but lynch the muties"

>Big glowing Ankh appears in the sewers
Heard you were talking shit like I wouldn't find out.

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>IT only really focuses on Derry
I think It just has a range of movement.

Because muties go out of their way to make everything a political thing, and they themselves are, statistically, awful people.

absolutely based if you ask me. Mutants, Inhumans and every RACE of superpowered beings needs to be yeeted into sun. You have at least a degree of control over mutates

Achilles being brave is definitely a modern thought. Achilles was a mope who was either hiding from war with the girls or sulking in the tents until his buddies complained that they were all dying and needed his help. He seems kind of bored mostly, but decade long wars will get to you.
Odysseus was a dishonorable sneak and a greek anti-hero, sure. Hector however, is the unparalleled Homeric ideal of a man - honorable, strong, dedicated to family and city, and when obviously faced with Athena's plot armor bullshit, still fought Achilles to the death.

has getting the triforce of courage ever directly awarded Link more hearts? Hell in more games than not, Link never gets a piece of the triforce

I’ve never understood why Reed doesn’t either do more for mutants or put more effort into suppressing them. He fucking sat out AvX because he basically claimed it was beneath him, and we all know his team doesn’t dare so much as shit without his approval. Other supers have fought and sneered at mutants, but Reed legitimately gives me the impression he thinks they’re so far beneath his notice they don’t deserve to be taken seriously.

>”Oh sure Trask, I COULD make the Sentinels 1000% more efficient and also capable of harnessing cosmic rays but...oh, do excuse me. I need to go deal with Galactus. He’s only you know, the eater of worlds. And after that I’ve got an appointment with the man who took the Beyonders’ powers for himself, and a seminar to give to my multiversal council of alternate selves because the three who own their own Infinity Gauntlets-you remember those right? The glove that lets you do anything? Well, they invited me, or should I say I invited myself? Good luck with putting down your little subhuman uprising!”

Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise. Instead of becoming dependant on a lionhearted warrior’s mettle only available in his empowered form, Billy gets a smug prick’s guts for limited times a day and gradually hones his own homegrown courage with maturity and experience.

See, the thing about Flagg and other creatures of the Prim in general is the idea they’re destructive forces of cosmic nature doesn’t mean they’re automatically untouchable or even that far beyond the humanlike forms they inhabit. The Crimson Queen was held off by Sir Kay Deschain after she tried to eat Arthur Eld for example, and a mere machine was enough to turn Mia human.

According to King himself Flagg is literally Nyarlathotep. That doesn’t change the fact he was also raped as a child.

Shitter can’t even give people proper immortality, just touch them and let them live a few centuries

Magneto is not a clever man. Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of how angry mobs work would’ve known that’s even stupider than losing because someone bluffed you with a wooden gun.

Y’know isn’t Namor super popular because he punched Hitler that one time or something? Funny how he’s a mutant too but barely counts for mugga shit unless he feels like it seemingly

Hey, the Asgardians are okay. Boston did well out of them and vice versa.

As for everyone else, once humans finish breeding with big robots we’ll be able to bring about the day of the rope for them all. Except Eternals, who had the decency to pre-emptively neck themselves once they realised how little even their own creators care about them.

Asgardians and Eternals are races that even at their basest are better than humans. Earth Inhumans and Mutants are literally people getting superpowers for free without (Mutants mostly) any temperance, culture, history to mitigate them

Reminder when literally the only thing stopping Inhumans from fucking over any human hierarchy of power was the fucking Sentry? Or Silver Surfer in regards to mutants?

X-Men should've been separate from the main Marvel continuity. It's hard to keep the racism allegory going when you have regular super powered dudes who are indistinguishable from mutants but loved while the same public just instinctively knows and hates mutants.

the books are fucking too lengthy for what they are, and a MASSIVE disappointment overall.

Remember when Aaron decided humans were the real pet project of Celestials all along, spawned from one of their dying sickly number and allowed to live as a defence against their unstoppbale not!tyranid rivals? Remember when in the middle of a battle against the Dark Celestials who had just slain every Celestial in existence, Tony started yelling about the Uni-Mind whereupon all the Avengers, including Thor and Carol, Captain Planeted all their powers into the new Ghost Rider who proceeded to yeet the Dark Celestials that had killed all the other Celestials in a single page while Black Panther fiddled with dials to pretend to be useful? Remember how the big stink about Celestials defeating Earth's pantheons in open battle over there not being enough muties turned out to presumably be some sort of sick cosmic slapstick prank? Remember when it was revealed that if Tony wasn't a selfish fuckup and revealed humanity's true strength we'd make each and every mutant not named Franklin Richards or Nate Grey look like an objectively inferior lifeform?

Good times.

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They had help from something far bigger than IT. They had Godhax.

Mid-level threat. Batman or Green Arrow probably.

Heavily depends on the version of Supes. Also, IT dropping the disguise isn't a "trance." It simply outright kills you. No saves.

Gan itself literally stepped in to aid them. It's the equivalent of the Source itself deciding to tap in and smack the shit out of every villain in DC at once.

And Darkseid’s Omega Beams are supposed to erase anybody but Superman can tank those.

>What level of threat would Pennywise be in the DC universe?
Literally Galactus. The clown is just a physical avatar. The actual entity the clown represents is a cosmic monstrosity older than time.

Superman "tanks" them in the sense he doesn't instantly die in the first hit. They still absolutely fuck him up no matter what.

Then sounds to me like Penny’s “Instadeath” ain’t gonna do shit and it’s gonna slow him to fight back.

ITs insta-death would kill the vast majority of Superman incarnations. Even Rebirth Supes almost fucking withered away due to extensive lack of sunlight. And IT is a worse situation to be in than the Forger simply dumping him in a dead reality.

>M-Muh Horror Husbando could totally kill Superman
Kek. Pennywise ain’t shit.

Never said that, but it seems like you're just shitting yourself for the sake of shitting yourself at this point. Have a (You).

he doesnt have too many years left, at least he's having fun with them

>ITs insta-death would kill the vast majority of Superman incarnations

It would. You do realize that not every version of Supes is running at the levels of Prime 1Million, or Strange Visitor, or Pre-Crisis right? Even Rebirth Supes, who has a multiverse-busting feat to his name, almost fucking DIED if it weren't for Batman pushing a couple suns his way.

>Only Silver Age Superman is powerful
Dude, Post-Crisis Superman is enough. Who the fuck do you think is fighting Darkseid and his Omega Beams in the current comics? You think the Silver Age ended 8 years ago?

See . And at several points, avatars of Darkseid smack him around like a redheaded stepchild.

>absolutely based if you ask me. Mutants, Inhumans and every RACE of superpowered beings needs to be yeeted into sun.

Add people who say "yeet" to that list, and I'd be cool with that.

I assume that "random fat man" turns out to, in fat be, Fatman?

It’s Bueno Excellente, dude.

You know, as they were forcing Pennywise to transform what if they made IT into a rapeable little clown lady?
haha

Darkseid had lost his powers because REASONS and end up in Hub City
He managed to survive and even get a regular job at McDonald's

he wouldn't.
he'd end up in one anyway

II only know of Pennywise from the 90s series, tell me about him in the books and movies

>it didn't explain that the silver shot worked because their belief made Pennywise subject to the rules of a werewolf, because that's what they thought he was, and it's how the battery acid inhaler worked as well.
Them working because the kids honestly believed they would work wasn't stated explicitly, but it was quite obvious

>makes Pennywise feel less confident and them less scared of him
Penny got less confident BECAUSE they got less scared.
Basically Penny only reflects their will and fears

It was reciprocated but both were too socially crippled to do anything about it

Its not that its better, its that it works better OUTSIDE of capeshit. Pennywise isnt gonna do shit with adult heroes and mentally stable people, sic him on kid or teen heroes and you get something half interesting

I don't think I get your reference.

My Zelda lore if spotty, but I think he gets them just from being the chosen wielder of courage.

And one black kid, right?

>Pennywise is infinity powerful, but is also never unbeatable. He's a strong as whatever you fear most, but at the same time, will lose his power if he's not feared.
So his weakness is Stoicism?

What about like a robot that can’t feel?

Fear is his weapon, so stoicism will help protect you from him, but to hurt him you need actual bravery.

Probably the executives who called for it. It happened in ghostbusters (2016) too, all the ghosts were practical makeup and shit, but then they layer painted over them in cg.