Characters who know martial arts for some reason

>Ben and Gwen were a cool duo of Earthly Magic and Ayy Science
>Completely ruin it by making Gwen also an Alien
>Kevin is a mutant orphan
>No wait we lied he isn't, he's actually an alien who destroyed his house during a shitfit and ran away
>The Plumber helpers are Human Alien hybrids
>No they are actually Null Void MK Ultra agents given powers by some dude with the help of Kevin, who was also a Null Void MK Ultra agent

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>For some reason
You need a reason to take up martial arts? That’s like saying “characters that know baseball for some reason.”

>No they are actually Null Void MK Ultra agents given powers by some dude with the help of Kevin, who was also a Null Void MK Ultra agent
honestly if we ever see the original continuity again I wouldn't mind if they retconned out that retcon

>Cousin that you have adventures with can morph into a countless amount of aliens
>t5ake up karate "for some reason"

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Aside the Avatar series, is there any good representation martial arts in cartoon?

S3 has an entire episode where's she's in karate gi and bare feet

>Avatar
>Frilly acrobat martial arts that would get you destroyed in a fight
>good representation of martial arts

>she could've just been a physically incompetent nerd

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So... Is there any?

>for some reason
She spent a whole summer on a road trip fighting aliens with grade school knowledge and stolen magics. It's not surprising that she would decide she needed to learn some shit.

Omniverse was the attempt to retcon things back to the og series continuity. I'm not sure what happened after Ultimate Alien but MoA seemed to develop a hatred for the Alien Force continuity and used Omniverse to erase and retcon any changes that the AF era did to the og series.

The only problem was that they didn't go far enough. The whole Rooters arc should have ended with Kevin fully reverting to being a villain. He was always such a gigantic bore as a good guy.

The other problem was that Omniverse was shit.

>Every single black person on the Boondocks.
Except Tom.

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in what world?

Man of Action wasn't involved in AF, UA, or Omniverse. They did a crossover between Ultimate Alien and Generator Rex and have come back to do the reboot show, but otherwise they haven't been involved since the OG show.

It was mainly Derrick J. Wyatt and some others who hated AF and UA. But Omniverse ended up being the worst show of the franchise so joke's on them.

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Omniverse tried to retcon that away by reintroducing magic and Gwen's Lucky Girl persona. And crossing over the Secret Saturdays so cryptids and other earth based monsters existed in continuity again.

In all universes. In the Omniverse, if you will.

you got me with that one

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Huey was the marital artist. Riley was just a brawler and Grandad knew Belt-fu.

She was already holding her own at 10 years old. All the times she got throw around back then should've killed her.

Nah, it was legitimately better than Alien Force amd Ultimate Alien. Even as a kid I found AF boring as shit . I dropped it when they made dragons into aliens. They turned dragons into fucking aliens. I knew right then that the show didn't give a fuck about anything that made the original show good and dropped it fast. Didn't help that the animation style was bland and the fights weren't fun to watch.

>complaining about dragons being aliens
>when omniverse was so fucking lazy it made a fucking LEGO/Megablox alien

I don't think so user

>Sci-Fi
>Forces everything to be alien
Gee

At least it lead to some fun fights. And it's a thousand times more creative than Alien Force's habbit of just introducing worse versions of the original 10 aliens. Instead of coming up with anything new

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Omniverse is still trash though, Plus a lot of fans were used to UAF so retconning them back only pissed even more people

Oh shit it's the "tiny girl can easily overpower huge male thug with her magical karate" meme!
I love that one!

Anyone who enjoyed UAF unironically deserves nothing but disappointment

new doesnt mean better, especially not a fucking LEGO alien. Omniverse was shit and a few fights don't redeem it. Alien Force/Ultimate Alien weren't perfect, but they are leagues better than Omniverse

>tfw we'll never get a show with McDuffie and Man of Action teaming up to show Ben as he becomes more and more like Ben 10k in the art style of Generator Rex

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>new doesnt mean better
Someone shoud have told the UAF writers that because UAF is one of the worst exqmples of this mentality. They initially refused to touch the original set of aliens in favor of newer worse versions l. Omniverse didn't even intriduce as many new aliens as UAF did, instead preferring to stick to fan favorites from the og era.

> Ben as he becomes more and more like Ben 10k in the art style of Generator Rex

If you mean the Ben 10000 from the og series, then you were never gonna get that with UAF. They got rid of that version in favor of Ultimate Ben 10000. The lamest possible future for Ben ever. He has all the powers of Ben 10000 except all the things that make him interesting. And if you did mean Ultimate Ben 10000 then you deserve bitter disappointment.

UAF was the worst thing Dwayne McDuffie worked on

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UAF used plenty of OG aliens what are you talking about

>If you mean the Ben 10000 from the og series, then you were never gonna get that with UAF. They got rid of that version in favor of Ultimate Ben 10000. The lamest possible future for Ben ever. He has all the powers of Ben 10000 except all the things that make him interesting. And if you did mean Ultimate Ben 10000 then you deserve bitter disappointment.
they didn't "get rid of him" they showed an alternate Ben 10k as he would be if Ben keeps the Ultimatrix. Obviously Azmuth took it at the end of UA and gave Ben a new watch, so that version of Ben 10k would never exist.

I mean just Ben 10k in general, since each version we saw in the OS/UA was changed due to things that happened in Ben's present time.

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No it isn't, Even if we disregard the other shows and see how it stands on it's own, With the exception of Gravattack Omniverse's original aliens all suck, Feedback gets way too much attention, Ben's personality was unbearable and episodic, Like one time a dangerous bounty hunter escapes prison to come after and Ben just goes around saying it's his lucky day refusing to give a shit, It wasn't just Ben, Writer's seem to forget how to write nuanced characters, If Albedo is supposed to be a super smart alien that's just trapped inside Ben's body why is he considered an alternate Ben?, All the villains after Maltruant sucked, The Incurseans weren't intimidating at all, But them along with Argit and especially Ma Vreedle show a case of writer's pet, Ma Vreedle just straight up annoys me, You expected to believe in a world of intergalactic warlords with armies that fill skies, Planet destroying techno-organic beings, Literal inter dimensional ghosts that have Frankenstein's for soldiers, A single mom is the most dangerous out of all of them?, Alien X also was a big issue, The show blatantly says Ben has control of him and that only raises the question of why doesn't he use him every time things get too risky?

To me, "Goodbye and Good Riddance" is the series finale as it should have been in the first place, before CN made MoA rewrite it to non-canon so they could keep milking the series.

Nope, Ultimate Ben 1000 was stated to be the main continuity and Ben's defenitve future, the other Ben 10000 was called a buzzkill to dismiss him. Omniverse mercifully retconned Ultimate Ben 10000 as an alternate timeline. The omnitrix differences was just an oversight.

The show favored irreverence over needlessly dour and angsty drama of UAF. And Ben was an asshole in UAF, a boring asshole but an asshole nonetheless.

>be a blackbelt in judo
>vs a smaller faster blackbelt in front of the other blackbelts
>throw a slow right cross at her face instead of using judo
>get knocked out in one throw

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>Nope, Ultimate Ben 1000 was stated to be the main continuity and Ben's defenitve future
No it wasn't you goddamned liar, have you even watched the episode? Ben 10k specifically states he's a different Ben10k from the one Ben previously encountered in the OS.

>The show favored irreverence
And it was just a different flavor of shit. Omniverse was like trying to bandage a wound with a dirty rag.

That’s not very nice user

>Ultimate Ben 10,000
He literally states he's a different Ben from the one they encountered in the OS. They never say he is the "real" one, Ben says "You're my real future" and Paradox respns "Yes, if nothing occurs to change it" and says that it's exactly the reason he's brought this Ben 10k to Ben's time. Shortly after that Paradox talks about how there are many different timelines.

The implication is basically that their future is constantly changing and the Ben he ends up being won't necessarily be the OS 10k or Ultimate 10k. And it's kind of difficult for him to be the Ultimate one when he no longer has the Ultimatrix at the end of Ultimate Alien.

>the other Ben 10000 was called a buzzkill to dismiss him

he was called a buzzkill because he WAS a buzzkill. Yes by the end of that episode he'd changed some but it doesn't dismiss that he was still one.

It was heavily implied they were one and the same precisely because they shared the same memories. The original Ben 10000 didn't remember visiting his future self but Ultimate Ben 10000 did. It wasn't until Omniverse where it was definitively established that Ultimate Ben 10k was not the main continuity because it was a dumb idea like most of the idea from UAF.

The Highbreed and Aggregor arcs were the best things to come out of the franchise, The narrative was engaging and explored thoughtful themes, They also had a satisfying conclusion that doesn't just involved Ben unlocking a plot convenient alien and punching the villain
>They initially refused to touch the original set of aliens in favor of newer worse versions l. Omniverse didn't even intriduce as many new aliens as UAF did, instead preferring to stick to fan favorites from the og era.
And that was with good reason, Ben by the Original Show's end had atleast 19 aliens, Way Big being one of them, If the Omnitrix didn't reset and Ben had access to all of his aliens along with the new set he'd be way too overpowered, Plus there'd be the main problem of "Oh why didn't he just go Way Big and step on them?"
>If you mean the Ben 10000 from the og series, then you were never gonna get that with UAF. They got rid of that version in favor of Ultimate Ben 10000. The lamest possible future for Ben
Alien Force Ben was written to be more mature now he's older, as in he was on a road to become OS Ben 10,000, Executive meddling forced them to make him more like his immature self, Ultimate Ben might not have been executed well but the writers tried to balance out Ben's laid back attitude with his maturity, He cracks jokes and act brash but he still scolded Teenage Ben when he said that there shouldn't be any worries over Eon

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I'll agree with the Highbreed after you get over the rough ass start but Aggregor was fucking garbage as a villain.

More like every single black person in the north-east USA

>It was heavily implied they were one and the same precisely because they shared the same memories.
They were one and the same but that is not unchangingly true. Ultimate Ben 10k is Ben's future assuming nothing changes his future from the point in time we see them.

Obviously, Ben losing the Ultimatrix at the end of UA is a pretty big change, so obviously Ben's future will be different from Ultimate Ben.

>The show favored irreverence
That's why it sucked
>Shit, People will accuse us of being edgy, So we have to ruin any tension by cracking jokes every 5 minutes so we won't be edgy
>edlessly dour and angsty drama of UAF
Alien Force had plenty of humor in it, If you cared enough to actually hear the dialogue and scenes that don't include a fight scene

>The narrative was engaging and explored thoughtful themes
Kek, no it wasn't. It tried but god was it ever embarrassing to watch.

>They also had a satisfying conclusion that doesn't just involved Ben unlocking a plot convenient alien and punching the villain
That's literally half the show

>Aggregor was fucking garbage as a villain.
Present a valid argument or retract these words right now

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He had no personality beyond being a shitty version of Vilgax without the panache and Kevin Eleven without the delightful level of outright bloodthirsty psychosis, his design was terrible, and the entire arc was based around a retarded macguffin that was buried in a dull plot with little in the way of good moments since it's just Aggregotr bulldozing everything in boring onesided fights until he gets bodied. The aliens he was after were literally nothing special and lacked any real impact other than NRG being a meme.

>Magic isn't real Gwen. You idiot. You fool. You charlatan.

It's a Saturday morning cartoon for kids. It was never meant to be anything that serious. The original show never forgot that it was ultimately a show about a kid having fun playing hero. Omniverse is closer in tone to the OS than UAF ever was.

It's crazy how they took the live action Daphne taking some kung fu classes and beating some goon and dialed it up to her going to Japan to be in a worldwide martial arts tournament.

>Kek, no it wasn't. It tried but god was it ever embarrassing to watch.
Nuanced characters and dynamic plotlines are embarrassing I guess, Let's be like Omniverse and turn all the villains into one note jokes an

>>They also had a satisfying conclusion that doesn't just involved Ben unlocking a plot convenient alien and punching the villain
>That's literally half the show
Which one?, In the Highbreed ending, Ben had no chance against the villains, He wins by saving the Highbreed from extinction with the Omnitirx and by teaming up with a Highbreed, He managed to change their opinion on racial superiority, In the Aggregor story Line, Kevin only beat him by using energy absorption which he swore against, In essence he had to become a monster to defeat one

Compare that to Omniverse, aside from ruining Albedo, How does Albedo's story resolve?, Ben unlocks Atomix, A giant plastic toy with powers of discount NRG who just nukes him point blank in the face, Remember kids, Might makes right!, Azmuth then transforms Albedo into a 10 year old version of Ben just to add insult to injury, Only guaranteeing his grudge against them will grow

I'm fine with them giving Ben a brand new set of aliens but they were so uncreative.
>Big Chill: Ghostfreak + Arctiguana
>Chromastone: Diamondhead with lasers
>Humungosaur: Waybig but smaller and a dinosaur
>Swampfire: Heatblast + Wildvine
>Echo Echo: Ditto but with sound powers

>He had no personality beyond being a shitty version of Vilgax without the panache and Kevin Eleven without the delightful level of outright bloodthirsty psychosis
It's possible to have a good villain without a sympathetic personality or repeatability as long as they're charismatic, well written or have engaging personalities, But even then, His character is a dark reflection of Kevin's, He's what Kevin would be if he never reformed like Kevin 11,000, His arc is he's a mutant who absorbs powers but the problem is that it feels good and you'll have withdrawal symptoms, He's addicted to power not in the metaphorical sense but literally, He's a drug addict who wants to absorb more and more power, The baby Alien X thing was less of conquering the Universe and more of a junkie looking to get the biggest high
>it's just Aggregotr bulldozing everything
That's why he's intimidating, He provides tension to the story instead of just being bitchslapped by the hero, Him killing countless people along the 5 aliens and receiving no repercussions for it makes him a character that people love to hate

Shows grow with their audience, By time Alien Force came out most of the kids who watched it had grown into their teens

Chomastone and Diamondhead are only similar in that they're made of hard materials, Chromastone never made Diamond constructs

>He's like Kevin
Except he isn't Kevin was a lunatic, his drive was that he was fucking insane and hated Ben, and it worked for him. Meanwhile Aggregor is just some fucking guy who's retarded enough to go after some weakass bitch aliens for his high. He's just some fucking druggie and it's both boring and pathetic.
>Him winning all the time makes him good
That's not it. Vilgax was a murder machine, and intimidating, a good fucking villain. But you could still fight him, but it just *didn't* **work**. He was intimidating because it didn't matter you could hurt him, or even if you blew him the fuck up or slowed him down, Vilgax didn't give a shit. He'd be back and he'd fuck your shit up. Aggregor wasn't a good villain because apparently his species just are amazing at fighting despite being a bunch of leeches they just need to drink like five random ass weaklings to become powerful. It's fucking retarded, and boring as shit because it's not even fun to see him win because, again, he's a shit character and just some junkie trying to pretend to be menacing with the most bored fucking voice.

Was Vilgax sympathetic?

Not in the fucking slightest, which was fine because he was badass.

Dude, that's a chicken in a persons clothes.

>transforming Albedo into 10 year old Ben

What the fuck was that supposed to accomplish anyway? Just to rub salt in the wound? You’d think the smartest critter in the fucking universe would know better than to be petty - it just makes people want to kill you even more.

As an animator who trains occasionally I can tell you the lifestyles have surprisingly little overlap despite having a lot of crossover in ideas an vocabulary. Most artists are soft boi's who are pretentious and clique and identity driven. Of the guys who keep in shape or train they aren't in the clique and thus aren't usually getting into the current wave of calarts shows where being a goony beard man is a requirement.

Hence why all of these characters wear gi's and do some pastiche of traditional asian martial arts but absolutly nobody cross trains or does anything modern like MMA or anything that's currently in fashion like MMA. Even among the martial arts that use Gi's you have stuff like BJJ where the style and cut is VERY different. You rarely even see western stuff like boxing have much representation in a meaningful or accurate way.

Because most people in animation have this weird complex about anything that's too masculine or physical because they're all a bunch of guys with this weird complex about Frat Chads.

>Big Chill: Ghostfreak + Arctiguana
And it was an absolutely based combo that made for a great alien.

Also, Arctiguana appeared literally once and was only used by adult Ben.

>Chromastone: Diamondhead with lasers
Literally the only similarity between them is that they're crystals. Their powers are entirely different.

>Humungosaur: Waybig but smaller and a dinosaur
So, pretty different? Waybig's gimmick is that he's Ultraman. Humungousaur is moreso a tank/strongman that can grow bigger if need be. His max height is 60ft tall, where as Waybig is naturally and always 120ft tall.

>Swampfire: Heatblast + Wildvine

He's more versatile due to being the best of both.

>Echo Echo: Ditto but with sound powers
Echo Echo is better in every way. Also, Ultimate Echo Echo is the best.

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>Except he isn't Kevin was a lunatic, his drive was that he was fucking insane and hated Ben, and it worked for him
Watch Ken 10, It's non-canon but it gives an idea of what Kevin would have become in the OS, He's more cold and less prone to outbursts
>apparently his species just are amazing at fighting despite being a bunch of leeches they just need to drink like five random ass weaklings to become powerful. It's fucking retarded
They're not amazing at fighting, He also didn't face things head on or even meet the heroes until later, He also used his wits
>just some junkie
And junkies exist in real life as well, Most of them have no goal other than getting high

As much as Yea Forums grognards bitch endlessly about anime just take a look at some of 2019's hot anime with normie audiences. Netflix is running two different martial arts anime that are outlandish and cartoonish but have at least some nominal rooting in actual martial arts, even if it's turned up to 11. One of the hot new waifu anime is about cute girls who lift heavy weights. Athletics anime is doing good business.

This isn't even new, Shonen Jump has literally not been without at east one boxing manga in like 50 years and Baki was basically Shonen Champion's poster boy for two generations going on three. Sports anime have been huge since forever.

Western audiences are fucking enamored with the concept of athletic people doing sports, including combat sports. But western cartoons have this giant hole in their programming because western animators refuse to actually learn about or do that shit.

Shut the fuck up I wanna talk about Ben 10

Dude you can't say that about asians anymore

But I'm telling you, he's a chicken.

reminder

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