Wait but he was right, Aang literally just used the avatar state to subdue the firelord. What the fuck

You defended the dropping of the A-Bombs on Japan.

AI posts are never going to be funny again, the window has passed.

You would be rather silly to not defend it no matter whose side you are on. Using Aang to win the war was what the general wanted and what Aang ended up doing. By leaving the generals aid to go live in the woods Aang slowed down the progress of the war even more than he already had for no good reason. Men died because of his actions, his concern over killing the firelord was childish considering a hundred years worth of blood is on his hands.

He’s a literal child.

>literal
He's -literally- 112. Try a different word.

>Men died because of his actions
Men would have died because of what the general was doing too. The Avatar state is dangerous if not controlled with a proper understanding of how to spiritually control it. The General was willing to try triggering it by taking advantage of its capacity as a defense mechanism when Aang is threatened.

He's still a literal child.

He's a 112 year old child who was preserved in an iceberg so had never aged or gotten more experience. That user is correct.

Do you... Do you know the circumstances of the bombings? Japan had surrendered and they bombed civilians.

He planned on figuring out how to control it, before being knocked out. If your argument is it was better to let Aang run around without help from an adult i'm not sure your ethics argument holds up very well.
Canonically he is deceased, the way you phrase things is atrocious.
And so the child shouldn't be using the assistance of an adult general when it comes to winning a war? What are you arguing exactly? His childishness is ok because he is a coward?
The US let enemies go free so that they could build a device that could kill lots of women and children because the men of their nation drew first blood. Personally I would have picked better targets but hindsight is 20/20.

A general trying to traumatize a child by threatening their friends is unethical at best.

It was either that or let tens of millions starve.

>traumatize
The alternative being what? Aang not ending the war? The implication being he wasn't already shell shocked? This is the same episode where we see his internalized fear of his own destiny and the avatar state. Instead of dealing with it he just runs away again. The only time Aang doesn't run is when a second genocide is being threatened. He would have been happy to let the war go on during the comet otherwise. And this person is better off without the assistance of a general because of trauma?

>If your argument is it was better to let Aang run around without help from an adult i'm not sure your ethics argument holds up very well.
My argument is that this specific adult was the wrong one to help them, and the Gaang had better assistance from better mentors later. The general not only had no idea what he was doing with a very powerful ability, he also had no regard for the welfare of the holder of that ability or his friends, or even his own soldiers he put in harm's way. He saw what he interpreted as simply a powerful weapon, like a bomb he could use on the fire nation, and was trying to figure out how to aim that bomb. That's why he was wrong.

>It was either that or let tens of millions starve.
How? Japan wanted to surrender to the US so that the Soviet Union wouldn't conquer them. You don't actually think they would hold out until their people starved, do you? Hell, you don't actually think it was the bombs that beat them, do you? We agreed to basically the same terms of surrender they offered BEFORE we bombed them.

But Aang wasn't in the wrong for using that weapon as the general intend?

Holly shit user. Are you in some way related to the us army? Because that's the most likely explanation for being this brainwashed.

Nope. He ended the war with one capture and neutralization of a political leader, and the ceremonial defeat of another be a fire nation heir. I call that minimal losses and collateral damage.

Brainwashed to not want to see children die but knowing sometimes that has to happen? It's reality. Jet did not have to die, the war did not have to last 100 years, and Aangs cowardice is inexcusable. And yes, just like everyone else living in my country I pay taxes and so support my military.
Yeah and all it cost was the lives of tens of thousands (if not more) and a hundred years of oppression. Minimal losses and collateral damage for sure.

Don’t tell me what I do, military can fuck themselves, bunch of assholes.

Hundreds of years of opression had already happened by that point, man. Why do you pretend to care about that stuff anyway? You already defend bombings that kill massive amounts of civilians if it leads to victory.

You don't follow the law but want to argue over ethics? Why even bring the debate outside of the show like that?
What was the benefit in having the war last 100 years so Aang didn't have to kill one man? More to the point, what was the benefit of not using the general to aid in ending the war?

>What was the benefit in having the war last 100 years so Aang didn't have to kill one man?
Did you forget the timeline? The war lasted 100 years because after Aang fled the Air Temple, he got frozen in ice. The General encountered Aang after that. The Fire Lord was defeated a couple of months later by Aang, using other mentors' training, no thanks to the general and his extremely dangerous tactics.

I do pay my taxes but I don’t support this military, deal with it.

lol this fucking guy. Do me a favor and hold your cross close to your heart as you salute the US flag while thinking about Avatar.

The tactic he wanted to employ was the exact same as Aang's minus energy bending. Which Aang learned from a turtle. The war would have been over in two weeks had they stayed with the general or alternatively Aang could have gotten over himself and ended it before the general was even alive. The generals plan was no more dangerous than Aang's.
By paying taxes you are supporting your government and its military with your money user. Whatever political beliefs you hold are irrelevant.
I salute no flag, one nation is no different from another. And if I was Christian I wouldn't care for the kingdom of man, would I?

>kingdom of man
Pfft

Christians believe in the kingdom of God, so yes any man made kingdom would be irrelevant. Ash to ash etc.

>The tactic he wanted to employ was the exact same as Aang's minus energy bending.
It wasn't. You're clearly forgetting how unpredictable the Avatar State was in the early episodes. And You've ignored everything I said about Aang's training to master the Avatar State.

The general was planning on finding a way to control it. You're suggesting a high ranking general in the earth kingdom army wouldn't have been able to assist the avatar in learning the elements? Especially considering that is why they even went to see him in the first place? I did not ignore it, it just seems pointless to say the general would have trained Aang because it is obvious.

The general didn't know shit about it. He was a military man who knew about military tactics and weapons, and the Avatar State is a spiritual state that required a spiritual tutor to get to the controllable state Aang used it as in the finale. Fong showed he was willing to try triggering it as an emotional response before even turning to that. He betrayed Aang's trust, endangered his friends, and showed major disregard for his own troops with what he did, why should anyone believe his method of turning Aang into his child soldier bomb would be less harmful? And furthermore, why should anyone believe that that would lead to an era of greater peace afterward, when the most powerful being on Earth has been warped in that way? You're a psychopath if you think any of this is a good idea.

If asking the avatar to do his job is me being a psychopath perhaps their world makes a bit more sense. Among all the adults Aang met Fong was perhaps the only one that actually wanted to end the war and worked towards it. Everyone else was mostly indifferent and completely fine with letting a kid run around unprotected.

I feel how I do because watching the northern water tribe just let Aang go, without any assistance speaks volumes of the global mentality. At least Fong gave a shit. He TRIED to get the avatar to do his job and had the resources necessary to finally end the war. And what does he get? Knocked out.
And don't go on about this endangerment thing Aang's friends where putting themselves in danger long before they met Fong. Waiting around for Aang to grow up was the only reason they faced any danger to begin with.

Fong's plan was to piss off Aang enough that he entered the avatar state in a fit of blind rage and hope that he would then choose to go after the Fire Natio instead of the people responsible for triggering the avatar state. It's using a weather machine to create a hurricane and hoping it will go exactly where you want it to go.
>>now that we know how to get you into the avatar state we just need to find a way to control you
Just because he realized that they should figure out a way to control the avatar state doesn't mean he would have been able to help Aang with that. In the episode he says they'll have to figure it out on the way to the fire nation, which shows he obviously didn't put much thought into the matter. Also, the way he phrases it ("We'll have to figure out how to control you") also implies that he expects to be the one controlling Aang in the avatar state, whereas what actually ended up happening was that Aang himself learned how to control it.

>doesn't mean he would have been able to help
Then he finds someone who can. What is the point in going to the general for help if he cannot help? He figured out how to trigger the avatar state, it is not unreasonable to think he could find a way to control it as well.

No he wasn't. He thought he could wield the Avatar State as a weapon and wanted to keep trying until he found a way to control a rampaging demi-god and then let him loose on the Fire Nation. Aang developed some degree of control over the Avatar State which is pretty much the opposite of what that general had in mind.

>And what does he get? Knocked out.
Because he revealed he was willing to full-on manipulate the Avatar in order to achieve his goals. You sound like a psychopath because you keep defending this person who was already starting to show signs of abusive behavior, and you're so sure that his path would somehow have been a less destructive one than the one the heroes chose, and I'm not sure how you've convinced yourself of this, given the way he was treating a very dangerous spiritual state that was clearly out of his understanding. I've already refuted your idea that he was needed because they needed an adult mentor to help Aang harness the Avatar State, because Pathik already served that role, and knew what he was doing. The Avatar State was useful, but General Fong wasn't. Just quit. Your position makes no sense.

>Then he finds someone who can.
You're giving the guy way too much credit. He's a guy with a halfway-decent idea that has no clue how to properly execute it and refuses to realize just how poorly he's going about it. The fact that he wanted to try putting his plan in action BEFORE he actually fucking knew how to control the avatar state shows just how absolutely incompetent he was.

The avatar state would have been better used if Fong was in control of it. Aang nearly dies several times because of this.
>his goals
What do you think those are exactly?
>pathik
You mean the guy that couldn't get all of Aang's chakras open? A rock was more useful than he was.
>incompitent
Getting Aang to glow was not him lacking competency. If Aang wanted to do things his way he should have done it 100 years beforehand.

>What do you think those are exactly?
I'm not going to answer shit like this. We've been talking about it for multiple comments in the thread, you're clearly trying to make a bad position look better by focusing on one thing out of all the stupidity I outlined
>You mean the guy that couldn't get all of Aang's chakras open?
You say this about the guy that got Aang to open most of his chakras and told him how to unlock the last one, in defense of the guy who accomplished nothing except pissing off Aang and all his friends and endangering a base full of his soldiers. There's no argument to be made here.

No, because you're viewing this like a real event and not a story about how you can't force a child to reach their potential.

Aang's concern over murder got people killed when he could have used the avatar state to defeat the firelord, which is what he ended up doing, while also getting people killed.
Are you actually trying to argue avatar is fictional? Please, I have no interest in arguing with lunatics.

>Aang's concern over murder got people killed when he could have used the avatar state to defeat the firelord, which is what he ended up doing, while also getting people killed.
Jesus, it's so obvious you went into this thread with one position you wanted to argue against a counterargument you expected that somehow it wasn't important to use the Avatar state, but you're just so stupid, you didn't realize that you can agree that the state was important, and disagree with the general. You've been reduced to just ignoring all the points everyone has pointed out about how working with the general would be bad for Aang, bad for the war, bad for the world, wich you couldn't even address, and now you're just repeating your assertion that if only there was an easy fix at that point, it would have been solved. You're wrong. The series shows how you're wrong, the people you're arguing with have explained how you're wrong, just accept it.

It's humorous because Zuko forcing Aang to fight his father by force was the only reason Aang actually did it. Putting aside the dues ex machina Aang would have had no solution but to kill the firelord anyway. The only reason Fong could be in the wrong was the writers of the show making a quick get out of jail card for Aang. Nothing Aang did or accomplished would have made the fight any different because he uses the avatar state either way.

No but the concept of a child having the power to end a war is purely hypothetical.
So I present you another one.
Should a child be expected to take up arms to defend his village if no one else can?

A child born into royalty is still expect to be a King, whether he is 5 or 50. More or less the same thing.

>Zuko forcing Aang to fight his father by force was the only reason Aang actually did it.
Uh no? Aang was resolved to do it after his lion turtle ride, and previously, he always knew he'd have to fight the Fire Lord. Zuko was telling him he may have to kill the Fire Lord, which Aang didn't do. You can't defend the general's actions anymore, so you've now resorted to lying about what happened in the show.

Aang was going to wait till after the comet to fight him, Zuko attacks Aang on the beach and tells him if he doesn't fight the firelord the earth kingdom will fall. Aang finds the turtle by sleep walking to it afterwards, still unsure how to deal with the firelord so he talks to his past lives who all tell him to kill the firelord. It is not until Aang is given the dues ex machina that he stands up to the firelord and not until he enters the avatar state that he is able to defeat him. From the generals and everyone elses perspective, killing was the only option.

>From the generals and everyone elses perspective, killing was the only option.
Okay but they were wrong. And that really doesn't have much to do with the argument about Fong, he wasn't wrong because of the finale, he was wrong from the very episode he appeared in, for all the reasons I already said, that were never refuted.

Without the turtle Aang's fight with the firelord would have been impossible. Had he gone with Fong there would be no comet and he would have an army helping him as well as the avatar state. It was always going to be dangerous, Fongs plan was Aangs plan right up until the turtle. Which is why every avatar he talks to tells him to kill the firelord.

honestly I have to aggree, War in and of itself is inherently unethical, so trying to apply ethics to it in any manner is completely counter-intuitive, when ideally when at war any combatant should use any and all means to end it as quickly as possible in their favor at minimum cost to themselves

I've pretty much already addressed all of this. You're just repeating the same stuff over and over, and I don't know how you think that's going to convince anyone.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Some seem convinced, which makes sense to me. Much like Aang not everyone can think about these things like an adult. I'm not even sure if I blame Aang for being how he was considering most of the adults around him just let him goof off during wartime.

They let him learn at a pace that worked for him, and that allowed him to mature into someone who was able to face down the fire lord by the end of the series and win the war. I'm not sure why you're so convinced about the hypothetical effectiveness of the plan of a minor character who in his only appearance was already shown to have made several cumsy mistakes with how to try to train the Avatar. Like some earlier posters already pointed out, it sounds like you have some pro-military bias that's affecting your assessment of how well Fong could have trained Aang to use the Avatar state when the show tells a different story. The fact that you still haven't picked up on that is worrying.