So how would this fight actually go down?

What would happen if Joker looked at the Deadlights?

well in the new movie Pennywise's power is directly proportional to how scared of him you are, it's why he spends all that time sending crazy illusions their way, the ritual of chud apparently means nothing so the Joker doesn't need friendship or whatever he just needs to be willing to ignore the illusions and fight It directly. If Pennywise tries to scare Joker first he assumes all the weaknesses of whatever form he takes, I'm betting the Joker's fear instinct leans heavily towards "fight" over flight and I'd also bet most of the things the Joker would be afraid of would be people he could stab or shoot.
Nolan Joker gets paralyzed like they did in the movie, probably gets absorbed into them. Comics Joker laughs and looks away.

Only movie Pennywise has that limitation. IT in the original novel could kill you in any way it wanted, fear or no fear. It just gave no shits usually because it views fear as a spice for its food, and doesn't really bother with adults outside of necessity. The kids literally only survived because they had active cosmic interference at all times, and that wasn't quite as strong by the time they hit adulthood.

Joker has an active cosmic interference at all times too.

Patrick was afraid of bugs. Pennywise kept turning into shit until he found Patrick's fear.

A challenger appears!

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The movie broke its own rules loads of times. That girl under the stands wast scared and he bit her face clean off

He really doesn't. He's just allowed to live in 99% of cases becuase Batman refuses to kill him (often for justified reasons, but still).

IT is under no obligation to leave him alive, nor is it at any risk of succumbing to some kind of viral contagion.

Fear has never been a requirement, it just makes it taste better. That's literally pulled straight from the book. Pennywise was just hungry and felt like being an absolute bastard, so he lured a little girl in and ate her. Sort of a similar situation at the beginning of the film with Adrian- He hadn't been harassing him with any illusions, he just wanted to spread misery and so he killed him in front of his boyfriend (I forget his name).

Wasn't It featureless when it got Patrick? I remember the leeches getting him but then he turns and gets grabbed by some featureless thing doesn't he?

The original will win.

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It should also be noted that in the book, Pennywise DOES rip Georgie's arm off and incites fear, but the kid still tries to take it back. IT only kills him when it drops the disguise and shatters his mind utterly.

IT doesn't need fear to kill you, and this is emphasized extremely early on. Fear just makes a meal more delicious.

No, he actually does. Joker is apparently chaos incarnate mate. Gotham is a living being.

I agree. If the clown looks scary, it fails at its purpose.

Most versions of Batman are pure trash, for reasons like that.

And IT is a Demon Elemental that is only a tier or so below the heaviest hitters in the Dark Tower meta-cosmology. Gotham being alive doesn't really matter here.

It depends on if the Joker has a fear that can manifest as a physical object. I don’t think Batman saying “I don’t care about you” is visceral enough for Pennywise to use and since Joker’s backstory is a mystery it’d be difficult for Pennywise to suss our what to use. I think Joker wins honestly, the guys mentally insane in a way that’s just not gonna be useful for Pennywise to use against him. He’d have to level up from shapeshifter to reality warped and I don’t think Joker would care about going into the sewers to kill him.

How is this fair, they both might be clowns, but Pennywise is a eldritch horror and Joker just a psycho, without plot armor Joker can’t win

Movie Pennywise has some reality warper feats to its name. Book Pennywise is literally "I can turn your tongue into dripping pus with but a thought, or give you terminal ass-cancer with a finger wag."

I agree

Joker being chaos incarnate is though.

At its core it seems pennywise just stomps
Joker is just a psycho
And pennywise is an eldritch abomination that feeds off fear
B U T
Joker doesn’t really fear most of the time
He could just beat pennywise’s ass with a crowbar while laughing in his face
Although, if pennywise caught him scared enough I wonder what he’d turn into
b-Batman?

>He could just beat pennywise’s ass with a crowbar while laughing in his face
The movies seem to have Pennywise be a somewhat physical thing outside of being a projection of the Dealdights, so that's possible. The novel had basically any attack not backed up by genuine faith and belief literally do nothing to him, though.

if Joker has a fear that It can exploit, or It can create an illusion that could trick Joker, It could win. It doesn't just get close to victims by exploiting fears, it tricks them by pretending to be someone they love or trust. I bet it could do something like make Joker think Batman was dead, which would make Joker lose all willingness to live.

Alternately, if Joker was too much of an edgelord for It to exploit him, I don't think Joker would even know about It's existence. If he does, Pennywise is fucked since Joker's plot armor would let him figure out exactly how to beat It.

How well would Pennywise do in this roster?

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It appears as what you fear most, to feed on your terror. I think the problem with that in taking on the Joker becomes instantly clear.

The Joker is full of disdain and derision for anything, and the only thing that might repel him here is a possible sense of kinship (frankly I doubt it). And It is vulnerable to psychological assault.

Joker 1, It 0.

Could Pennywise catch him?

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I wonder how Pennywise would adjust to being in a SOCIETY

Pennywise feeds off fear so her turns into the Batman to scare Joker. The Joker gets a boner, one way or the other a clown’s getting raped tonight.

How do they fare against this man?

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>Batman saves Joker from Pennywise in the last minute
lol

Same as Samus vs Iron Man - ends in sex.

So how do they beat it?

I think people fail to realize how bullshit Batman characters are at peak batwank. Batwank can allow a mortal man to make Darkseid run away. Batwank can allow Batman to fistfight Superman under mind control while Superman isn't holding back. Batwank can allow Catwoman to manhandle multiple Flashes at the same time. Look at Harley, she is under the influence of Batwank. Joker has been Batwanked for longer than most, he has literally been said to be a chaos deity and a living virus.

Meanwhile Pennywise has Steven King silly dumb shit to back him up where he could threaten another clown with a gun while jerking him off or have Pennywise get pregnant from a semen stain on a bed.

Pennywise can still transform into some dangerous shit. Joker still is only a guy with a knife.

>Joker has been Batwanked for longer than most, he has literally been said to be a chaos deity and a living virus.
Extremes are where you go when you run out of ideas. Contrast this with moderation and subtlety can be boring or worse, misunderstood, and you see why wank of all kinds is a safe product that moves units.

>Joker has been Batwanked for longer than most, he has literally been said to be a chaos deity and a living virus.
This. It's gotten to the point of almost self-parody. I personally prefer when Batman and his rogues were mostly low-scale villains: robbing banks, poisoning the water supply, pulling off mob hits, etc.

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what would pennywise turn into?

Maybe the Punisher or for kicks maybe pre-transformation Joker

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I'm surprised DC hasn't made a crossover comic yet

Didnt they basically emasculated it? Never read the book but the movie they just started call it a pussy til it felt smaller than he really was and ripped its heart out and crushed it.

That was never confirmed, because we see in Snyder run that Joker is a regular guy who can't help himself when Batman is around.

Gordon

Pennywise, but due to Batwank, it will probably be Joker

>spider-alien that feeds on fear
>anarchist who doesn't feel fear
Pennywise is FUCKED

>with a knife
You forgot guns and dynamite.

>ehldritch abomination
There are other combinations of words available to you. You don’t have to rely on TVTropes for everything.

are you kidding me? literally any grown person can defeat pennywise.
when you fight penny you enter a psychic battle where the one with the stronger will wins, basically when you fight it anything you believe ACTUALLY becomes real, so if you believe it is an unstoppable monster then you're fucked but if you believe he's some weak ass baby who's weakness is to destroy his heart then guess what is going to happen?
the only thing it has going for him is showing you his "true form" (aka using the deadlights) wich it seems to be a insta-win move unless someone else saves you from them but pennywise is incredibly retarded so he wont use that from the beginning
joker wins

The book covers what happens when Pennywise encounters someone without fear. One of the kids he ate was a sociopath. The lack of fear didn't stop him from eating him, but it was a lot less fun and tasty for him.

And even then they didn't actually manage to kill Pennywise as later books showed

What? Source?

In the book, IT was beaten courtesy of the Ritual of Chud, given to them by Maturin, ITs opposing Beam Guardian. It basically details the process of letting IT "bite your tongue" and you bite its own, and they had to use this to banish it. Even then, it only really worked becuase of childlike belief and their minor ka-tet backed up by Maturin.

Later on, when Maturin has seemingly passed away, they try the Ritual again as adults and nearly get obliterated. They only survive and beat the Spider because Gan intervenes on their behalf.

Insomnia revealed that "PENNYWISE LIVES." And Dandello is heavily implied to be either one of Its spawn, or some similar (albeit far lesser) entity.

IT is a Demon Elemental, and is also an All-Timer. Death isn't a concept that applies to it.

Nice Deus Ex Machina there, King.
Dandello fed on laughter so he was different.

Didn't Maturin die because it choked on something? My memory is a by hazy so I don't remember the details

He apparently died choking on a couple galaxies he couldn't cough up.

IT: i eat fear!!
Joker: i am the fear itself!

He was a good friend.

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Stephen King based comics are a Marvel property.

Which is ironic, because DC tends to reference Dark Tower stuff more than they do.

Its not confirmed if it was Gan or some other entity tho

It's called the Other and IT itself ponders on the existence of something greater than both Itself and Maturin. There's only two things in the entire cosmology that are definitively greater than a proper Beam Guardian and their respective Elemental, and that's Gan and Dis.

So it's a pretty good call to say it was probably Gan.

Joker lives in a society so he wins

Also this

Makes sense

Casuals talking shit about a character they dont even know

Pennywise should win but he's fighting a Batman character. Certain characters have a specific wank that will always allow them to bullshit a win. Say you push universes, fuck concepts, and kill by existing? You are fighting Superman though which means he will now punch harder than ever before because "he was holding back all those other times" but this time is the time he is super serious and he means it. You just got knocked on your ass anyway despite your feats being greater than the Superman you are fighting.

COOL, but what if you are the actual concept of speed, faster than ultra light, and also have the ability to instant win. Too bad, you are facing the Flash and now is the time he will run faster than ever before and leave you in the dust because SPEEDFORCE but this time all the speedforce in all the timelines in all spaces including negative space.

HOLY SHIT but maybe this time will be different because now you are infinite intellectual, capable of planning solutions against god and you yourself are a deity capable of raping Superman bareback but shit its Batman. Batman just beat ya because he is the GODDAMN Batman and he has batmetal made from element B which is the weakness you never knew you had and in fact didn't have before. Joker is the same way, you could be a mindbreaking cosmic entity capable of anti-life but Joker is too crazy and now he's capable of one-shotting you due to lord chaos master secretly powering the Joker for years because of reasons.

joker dies, batman gets mad, kills it, the end

Movie IT: Toss up since IT is kind of inconsistent. Joker could potentially just fucking kill his ass since he wouldn't be remotely afraid of him and would instead see himself as in power. DIdn't the one germaphobe nearly strangle the clown to death by himself?

Novel IT: IT bodies him

Has Joker ever tangled with scarecrow? If so,did he see anything?

He got hit with it before. He just mocked Scarecrow

Bummer. That could've been fun. Didn't Arkham Knight explore some of what Joker feared? Never played it but I skimmed through a synopsis once.

Is the IT novel worth a read?

Pennywise is very powerful, but his power is very selective. He preys on children mainly, and usually primes them first.

Powerful, yet adults with out fear kicked him in the stomach and killed him.....so....

Sorta though that was more Batman's thing I guess? Forgot how it worked

Basically he was just afraid of being forgotten by Batman

Pennywise is dead but she had children. Dandelo was the same species. There's also one from a recent book that feeds on sadness

>Only movie Pennywise has that limitation.
OP started with movie Pennywise.
And movie Joker for that matter.
Wait, why isn't this thread on Yea Forums?

Pennywise isn't dead but you are correct about the child thing. Pennywise was so scared after being killed by the kids he doesn't ever plan to return untill the kids grow old and die. She does come back tho in other Stephen King books from tommyknockers to other books ether being seen or writing saying pennywise lives or adults passing by and seeing a clown.

forgot to add that pennywise leads an army in the dark tower

Demon Elementals can't die. It's flat out impossible. At most, IT was weakened and has no intent on returning to Derry until the Losers all pass away.

You are right that IT spawned, however.

I love that Lawnmower Man can almost be considered a Marvel movie

An eldritch abomination vs a crazy bastard... Yea I wonder what would happen.

So how does IT having kids work? Is it some sort of cosmic egg shenanigan or does it just rip a chunk of itself off and it gains consciousness as a new IT? Does she have to teach the baby IT stuff about how to lure and kill or are they like turtles where the baby can take care of itself from birth?

Do they have different personalities? Can they fear on different stuff like angry flesh, stressed flesh, happy flesh, etc.?

Also between IT and carpenter's the thing, who wins? Can they even affect each other?

*can they feed

The 'children' are probably just extensions of the whole given a tiny amount of individuality. And if we assume Dandello was one of said spawn that survived, not only can they basically survive on their own, they also feed on different things altogether (laughter in Dandello's case).

>Also between IT and carpenter's the thing, who wins? Can they even affect each other?
IT is the Deadlights, which dwarf the entire universe by several orders of magnitude. Pennywise and the Spider are just manifestations it uses. So I doubt the Thing can really affect IT.

its a big knife

Hey now, that crazy bastard has a knife and gun, let's not understate his prowess here.

Wow that's kinda gay but makes sense

BASED AND GAMERPILLED

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for you

It depends on which version. Sometimes he's the incarnation of Chaos itself.

>a literal demon god or a guy that tells bad jokes

Gee, i fucking wonder who would win.

This but where Joker is the demon god and movie Pennywise is the poor comedian.

Why would fellow gamers fight?

>he gets Batman to rape them both

Could the Heartless beat Pennywise?

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The Heartless follow the most evil and depraved entities by default. They'd immediately start serving IT.

Congratulations. You've fucked the omniverse.

Im sorry to ask but what is the best explanation you can give of what the dead lights are? Do they represent several other "demons" besides Pennywise/the spider or is he the only representation of them?

Don't sweat it. Talking about Stephen King lore is a fun pass time.

The Deadlights are basically the purest representation that the mind can come to processing ITs true self as a Demon Elemental. They're a formless and ever-shifting destructive mass that assimilate and destroy souls, and are possessed of a boundless malevolence and intelligence. The facet we perceive as Pennywise is a vessel through which it can interact with existence, but pales in comparison to the Spider manifestation, who acts as a more direct conduit for IT.

When the avatar first landed on Earth, it was the mass-extinction event that killed the dinosaurs and fucked the planet for millions of years. The point at which it landed would eventually be the spot where Derry would end up founded. It should also be noted that Derry is just another manifestation of IT. The entire town only exists because of IT.

Huh, pretty heavy stuff, thank you for explaining user. It's a bit difficult to grasp without having read the book yet but your explanation was the clearest I've seen so far.

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Overdose.
Joker goes down first.

They'd team up and fix society

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Man the native flashback stuff in the film looked pretty cool. Wish they had more Wendigo IT stuff. I'd totally watch a movie set the 1800s with spooky native monster shenanigans.

The joker is not scared of dying but he can feel fear.

I’d say it is but I don’t remember much about it other than the leeches.

>The Heartless follow the most evil and depraved entities by default.
Only to a certain extent. The Heartless will turn on whoever controls them and devour their hearts if they show weakness in their hearts or they’ll ignore them if they’re in a location that’s too close to strong sources of darkness.
>They'd immediately start serving IT.
IT would probably find them useful for spreading fear and occasionally bringing IT people to feed on, but would probably find their tendency of feeding on people’s emotional cores annoying.
>Congratulations. You've fucked the omniverse.
That’s pretty much a given. You either given a Demon Elemental an incredibly useful and dangerous tool or you’ve given a multiversal virus a MAJOR boost in strength.

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How strong are Heartless? I always see people saying they're invincible unless someone hasa keyblade.

Pennywise turns into the IRS.
>Oooo taxes Ooooo

>How strong are Heartless? I always see people saying they're invincible unless someone hasa keyblade.
It varies from species to species (Shadows can easily be dealt by baseball bat) but the Keyblade thing is if you actually want to REDUCE the number of Heartless in a world, only Keyblades and strong sources of light (KH’s defines it as being a force of good) can keep them at bay and release the captured hearts that Emblem Heartless like are made of.

I feel like it needs to be pointed out that the Heartless in the present day of KH are actually *weaker* than how they originally were. This is a force that nearly brought the multiverse to its knees on several occasions, actively desire to devour the very heart of all things, and are technically the reason why all the big bad of the games even exist, and yet they're genuinely LESSER than what they had been before.

X/UX details what the ancient Heartless were like back during the time of the Keyblade War, and they were quite simply unholy. Even Shadows could be world-threatening nightmares.

Don't you mean how would this fight go clown OP?

I can't see Joker doing too well. Pennywise can't be defeated by any one person I think.

And you guys willingly pay money for these kind of stories? That I will never understand.

Clown who was killed by being called names vs Clown who is a master at mentally breaking people

>A malevolent, elldritch abomination that preys on fear and is immensely cruel to all of its victims. He can be anywhere, do anything, and seems almost unstoppable to any sane human being
>some guy with balloons 'ooh scary'

Errrr how is this a contest?

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> IT turns into batman
> Actually no longer wants to kill joker because being batman is fucking awesome and that is recognized by IT
> kills kids in batman form
> batman catches wind of this and goes to investigate to clear his name

BATMAN VS IT
Batman ends up fighting his dead parents.

It ends up helping his trauma a bit in the end.

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Yeah, poor Joker.

> joker is so monumentally fucked up everything IT does is just the pinnacle of comedy to him
IT relies on fear so giggling at the ghosties would actually either completely nullify him or even fuck him up maybe depending on movie or book version.

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The book version wouldn't care, and would jsut drop the disguise and toss him screaming into the Deadlights.

The movie version would probably be severely affected.

GUYS
GUYS
GUYS
What if.....Joker vs the Green Goblin Truck from Maximum Overdrive?

But he’s the JOKAH baby!

Honestly I kind of got the idea that IT being this vast cosmic demon is just another ruse, a boogeyman taking the form of an adult fear instead of childlike.

>The entire town only exists because of IT.
Wait so It being alive is the reason the town didn't dissapear, is this something like Sire song were It attracted the people to Derry and make the town for them to stay and feed like his own little farm?

Also how different is the ending from the book and the movie?

That is why you only buy stories of characters you like because the shit I mention will always be the core of how DC works. Marvel centers on similar wank but they try to be more interconnected. So for Marvel it would go, well you just punched all the Avengers who ever been on the team with one punch, you make cosmic power look like NY shit on the street, and you wrap reality to such an extent that the One Above All just decides to not fuck with you, tough shit because DOOM is here. Despite you already killing DOOM five issues prior, he somehow survived you throwing him into the sun while it was being created eons ago and his plan just worked despite you knowing everything with complete control over everything.

Well shit that was something but this time you made sure DOOM is out for good, you kicked Ironman in the balls with the Infinity Boot, and you have the Nullification Button but oh Reed Richards is here and not only that, he brought all the Reeds from all the timelines including the one where he the Infinity Suit. Well shit, Reed has now fucked your ass and Susan is still being a cunt.

So this just ends with The Batman Who Laughs fucking IT?

>Joker:C'mon I want ya to do it,I WANT you to do it
>GG Truck:*does it*
Who's the absolute madman now?

Pennywise also killed a lot of 12 year old kids. I think it balances out.

IT's reality-bound avatars like Pennywise and the Spider probably couldn't do much to the Joker fear-wise -- it would just be a fight between two clowns or a clown and a giant spider.
However, IT in its full cosmic horror true form would kill Joker instantly.

>is this something like Sire song were It attracted the people to Derry and make the town for them to stay and feed like his own little farm?
Yes
>how different is the ending
Half the town is destroyed in a sudden flood and overall it's a bit more melancholy

Yep. IT doesn't even have any quips as he's eating Patrick. Patrick was just so fucked up that Pennywise didn't know what to do outside of the flying leeches and just ate him.

Pennywise was beaten when they started making fun of him. Do the math.

Is Pennywise?

I thought he was an ancient alien.

So let me get this straight, IT is an eldritch horror from beyond the stars older than the universe... and it can't kill a couple of kids, fucks up twice, and has the need to eat? It doesn't just snap its nonexistent fingers and erase the problem from the timeline?

Pretty much, which is why the fucking joker ofof all things took pennywise place in Mortal Kombat 11

Some fucking kids anhilited his ass

joker wank lets him win

It's strength is also it's biggest weakness. Also the kids were gathered together and empowered by an even stronger cosmic being or at the very least one just as strong as Pennywise.

Joker is chaos incarnate, Pennywise is fighting his equal right now because joker wank is in full effect.

Where did the whole Batgod with prep time meme start?

why did the stronger cosmic being help the kids? why should something like that care about a few measly humans?

Joker has a bunch of his own gadgets and such that he employs, but I your point is well taken.

The turtle is a protector of children and a force for good to counter Pennywise's force for evil. He helps them as kids
Gan likely steps in to help because Pennywise's counter dies and to 'even' the score.

I want to say it was during Morrison's JLA run, then continued in Waid's, primarily Tower of Babel with the whole "BATMAN HAS PLANS TO TAKE DOWN THE JUSTICE LEAGUE. HE CAN BEAT EVERYONE WITH FLAWLESS PLANNING"

Because Pennywise isn't the only god-like entity in the setting, and despite it being just a few "measly humans", something out there still gave a shit to not have Pennywise running roughshod on reality because it was their responsibility.

Adam West's Batman usually had convenient solutions or gadgets to help him out of a situation, but it was played to a goof cartoon-like effect. No one thought much about it because nearly everything about Adam West's Batman is silly. TDKR's fight between himself and Superman is overstated as hell because everyone ignores the context and circumstance of the whole fight and just remembers the scans of Batman kicking around Superman after he got hit with the Kryptonite Arrow, not everything leading up to that point where Superman was effortlessly countering him while immensely holding back and being previously weakened by a nuclear missile. Tower of Babel and Ra's fuckery with Batman's contingency plans pretty much solidified this into meme status, played with at first and as a joke, but writers caught on and just ran with it to the point that we've ended up with kryptonite chewing gum.

Batman having contingencies or workarounds was a part of his character for a long while, but it turned from having a couple of lockpicks stored in his gauntlets to having legions of kryptonite-powered robots to stop a rogue Superman or whatever. His villains followed suit in becoming power crept to fuck so they won't be left behind, and now they're somehow League-level threats.

Considering Maturin is a thing, IT bieng what it is isn't just some trick. We also get several points in which we see ITs perspective and how it truly views things.

Because Maturin is a Beam Guardian, being ITs direct opposite, and is thusly one of the premiere forces for good. And when he passes on, Gan steps in instead.

Neither of these have aged well.

The tendency for his stories to follow a given pattern:
Batman meets a new villain, or a recurring one who has a new trick, uses that trick to kick his ass.
Batman recovers while figuring out how the villain did that trick, he figures it out (because world's greatest detective) and goes after the villain, this time with some counter to the trick and wins.

So, you get this idea, that if Batman knows how a given person's capabilities work, he can find a counter to them and win the fight. Which isn't precisely true, but it's how a lot of his stories play out.

They vary in strength depending on varying factors. Though apparently old school heartless back during MoM's days were fucking broken.

The main issue is that without strong light powers or a keyblade, they don't stay down.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I think his power level varies based on how afraid you are, but also how much fear he’s fed off of recently.

How many beam guardians are there total, or do we know?

Penny wise would have to turn into society.

There are a total of 12, who are opposed by four Demon Elementals IIRC. The Elementals each have two primary avatars, one male and one female, so they balance out.

Most of the original Guardians are dead however, as they're 'just' Long-Timers, and can still perish from shit. The Great Old Ones with their empire tried to recreate and replace them with mechanical duplicates as they tried with the Beams proper, which fucking failed.