What’s stronger?

now i wanna see Pain vs Steven

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Naruto is stronger
What about really bad singing?

>A Yea Forums and Yea Forums crossover topic with actual discussion

NIce.

Interesting points, are there acceptable levels of violence for TNJ, or does any violence invalidate it?

what about the original talk no jutsu user? He can redeem even satan worshippers

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He hasnt been able to YET. The next season will finally see Jasper come to gripes with her trauma, and accept the helping hand Steven's been offering her since she unfused from Lapis.

WE
ARE
FIGHTING DREAMERS
WE'LL ALWAYS SAVE THE DAY, AND IF YOU THINK WE CAN'T WE'LL
JUST GO MY WAAAAAAYYY

sometimes you have to smack the sense into people.

You had me at the first spoiler but lost me at the rest.

The thing is with Naruto is that he does his talk-no-jutsu sometimes during, or after a fight when he finally understood his opposition’s philosophy. Then he attempts to deconstruct it, Steven’s is similar but he doesn’t attempt to prove his strength through fighting or breaking apart his enemies’s flawed mindset. But rather, validating their traumas and convincing them to reject their villainous ways. After all, it did take Peridot and Lapis a long while until they finally turned around.

Didn't Naruto talk no jutsu the equivalent of a god, and she was a stupid powerful alien from the moon or some shit? Been forever since I read Naruto's ending.

Doesn’t matter. Naruto needed all of 5 minutes to change Nagato, Steven still hasn’t changed Jasper in over 3 years.

goku learned how to read minds by doing push ups

No, they beat her up and resolved it with plain old violence. Orochimaru and Kabuto (the universe's closest equivalents of Mengele) were somehow talked into not being evil anymore though

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Don’t talk about Orochimaru like that, he’s one of Naruto’s best friends!

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To be fair Nagato and Naruto are actually distant cousins.They're both survivors of the Uzumaki clan, along with Karin.

Which I think is the real shit. Sauske bitches and moans about his family being slaughtered and him being abandoned but Naruto apparently went through the same shit and never whined about it.

But for the sake of this discussion Naruto has actually been through shit. He can relate to the villains who've been abandoned and isolated because he was abandoned and isolated.

I don't think Orochimaru stopped being evil even a little bit.

What’s funny is that for the longest time I avoided SU, and disliked how much of a pacifist Steven is until I realized how similar he actually is to Naruto, who i mean, for what it was, I enjoyed the story. I kind of started to come around to Steven and the show as a whole, it’s alright. The movie was fucking great

Any redemption arcs in Z didn't really happen because of Goku. I don't really remember with Dragonball though.

Have you explained to you opponents that Giorno Giovana has a dream?

Naruto's talk no justu has worked immediately on everyone he tried it on, Steven often has to try several times.
In kakashi's words "Naruto makes friends of everyone immediately, no matter how few words he's spoken to them".
It's stronger as well. Steven can convince enemies to stop their violent ways and live in peace instead, but people Naruto has talk no jutsu'd will literally follow him into war and fight to the death for causes they've never been shown to care about.

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Gotta have Hajime Ichinose, the girl who talked a planet-destroying alien into living inside her tits.

YOU ARE MY FRIEND!

He literally talked the man who killed both his teachers and his love interest into bringing two of them back and killing himself.

So I don't know, Naruto's talk no jutsu is definitely a lot more effective than Steven's but I'm not sure if Naruto is actually better at talking and relating to others than Steven, or if he just has more potent charisma buffs?

Steven and Naruto talking with each others.
Who would win?

That's too broad a question, you need to define the terms.

For instance, Naruto needing to convince season 4 Steven to not hold himself responsible for his mom's shortcomings, and... I'm drawing a blank with Naruto, beyond convincing him that he can't punch Sasuke back into being his friend which is both impossible for Steven to achieve and also turns out to be factually incorrect.

Probably worse, Steven at least usually has some sort of leverage. He freed Peridot and Bismuth, healed Lapis (and offered to heal Jasper), and had familial connections with the diamonds. What does Naruto have, except for maybe "believe in me, also I won't beat you to a pulp"?

Canonically he makes friends so easily because of some mindrapey magic chakra ability

>"believe in me, also I won't beat you to a pulp"
>More than I did already, I mean.
Though in fairness, Kakashi was the one who beat up Zabuza.

>jumps through a guy's stomach
>beats a guy and lets him fly away in his pod
>inadvertently causes a guy to get cut in half
>obliterates a dude with Spirit Bomb so hard the guy gets reincarnated
These guys helped Goku at some point later.

That's not counting guys like Yamcha or Tien, who were minor villains in Dragon Ball.

Really, Steven's abilities to diplomance are dramatically overhyped.

Gohan redeemed Piccolo
Bulma partially redeemed Vegeta with Trunks finishing the job
Frieza is about as "redeemed" as Orochimaru
And if you want to count Buu, then I thought Shenron redeemed him. Through soulwashing magic.

Well considering the subject matter it would be pretty ironic if it was anything but a civilized discussion.

No, he's objectively worse. Naruto's talk no jutsu is magic.

>Naruto’s Talk No Jutsu
The meme pushed by people who didn't actually read or watch Naruto.

I'm literally rewatching it right now. Naruto has a supernatural force that can completely rewrite peoples personalities and several people acknowledge this in-universe.

>Orochimaru and Kabuto (the universe's closest equivalents of Mengele) were somehow talked into not being evil anymore though

Orochimaru never stopped being evil. He's still doing fucked up experiments and shit. They just have him under house arrest and nonstop surveillance.

Kabuto was trapped in a repeating time loop and was forced to change his ways to escape.

Naruto has put hands on all of his villains. He had to beat the brakes off of multiple people to even get them to listen. Talk no jutsu is a meme.

>Naruto's talk no justu has worked immediately on everyone he tried it on,

Not really. It didn’t immediately work on Sasuke when he left the village in Part 1. It took multiple attempts for Naruto to get Sasuke back.

>What about really bad singing?
Not Steven

Sasuke was a weird example. Naruto's talk no jutsu did successfully make him his best friend, that just wasn't enough to keep him from leaving do to his weird family situation.

Well yeah, Talk no jutsu is like a pokeball, you gotten rough 'em up first. That's why Steven's usually takes several tries, he just tosses it out every turn.

Beating the shit out of someone typically isn't tied to them changing their ways for reasons other than fear, unless it's to lower their mental resilience to your friendship magic.

Beating the shit out of someone until they can't fight back then telling them they were wrong is not "talk no jutsu". It's beating the shit out of someone until they listen.

Talk no Jutsu is a forced meme.

>Beating the shit out of someone typically isn't tied to them changing their ways
It is in battle shonen. "Talking through our fists" is the common fucking cliche.

Does Craig use Talk no Jutsu as well?

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>Be Sasuke
>Get teamed up with super annoying kid in class.
>Notice something weird as everyone starts suddenly liking him.
>Enemies you face also start taking a liking to him.
>Even you're starting to call him your friend.
>Trying to do an edgy loner thing so you try to bail on him and go live in the woods.
>He follows you.
>He tells the other kids in class to come too.
>Neither of you have ever hung out with these guys.
>They start literally fighting to the death to stop you from leaving just because this kid said to.
>Have to take matters into your own hands.
>Try and force him to leave you alone.
>Kid literally turns into a wild monster because he's possessed by an actual demon.
>Barely manage to knock him out and nope the fuck out of that whole situation.

>YEARS later!
>Chilling in your secret underground bunker.
>Fucking demon kid busts down the door screaming for you.
>Brought some new kid with him.
>"Hello, I am Sai. I was trained from birth to be a perfect assassin and have been mentally conditioned to feel zero emotion whatsoever."
>"Yeah, he's my friend."
>"Yes, I am Naruto's best friend. I love him, and I would kill for him, and I would die for him, and you will come back to the village because Naruto says so."
>Suddenly realize this mind controlling demon kid has been yelling about becoming king this whole time.

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Talk no jutsu was never implied to be completely nonviolent, that's just how Steven does it.

So really if Naruto had scored a definitive win against Sasuke in their prior clashes, Sasuke would have "seen the error of his ways" a lot sooner.

Though has a point that Naruto didn't need to beat the shit out of Sai to effectively deprogram him, though maybe that's because being emotionally dead inside contradicts being a master of an expressive art-based style so that was just a dumb move on Danzo's part.

Only mostly, he still totally stabbed Bismuth.

I think he did punch Sai exactly once.

To be fair Naruto didn’t really have anything to bitch about there considering he didn’t even know the Uzumaki clan was even a thing

Now I’m wondering how strong their fused version of talk no jutsu would be

You. I don't like you. But I do respect you.

>Orochimaru and Kabuto (the universe's closest equivalents of Mengele) were somehow talked into not being evil anymore though
Ha ha, yeah, that's as implausible as America recruiteding a Nazi scientist after the war was over.

>Sauske bitches and moans about his family being slaughtered and him being abandoned but Naruto apparently went through the same shit and never whined about it

Except Naruto knew nothing about his clan, and had no emotional attachment to them. He also didn't see them get killed.

What a dumb false equivalence

Steven uses emotional manipulation to convert his enemies, while Naruto challenges their world view.

He beats someone into rock bottom and then says "stop being evil"

The Akatsuki were actually humans supped up with ancient Gem tech and trained by rose her self, given their upgrades they lived far longer than what’s normally expected which slowly drove them insane.

Just because you don't know someone doesn't mean you can't have an emotional attachment
growing up without a father doesn't mean you don't constantly long for your father

Only acceptable awnser, Gentaro would fucking outfriend these two animated losers in a heartbeat.
such is life for a PRO GAMER

Ummm.... Hercule and Majin Buu.

I wish this was a joke.

>Steven uses emotional manipulation
no he doesn't

but user, you're forgetting that not only steven converted spinel (someone who went through a comparable amount of trauma- standing anywhere without human contact for years itself is traumatic, let alone 6000 years), but he also converted white diamond, a intergalatic autocrat with an unknown amount of power and countless of colonies.

i thought the uzumaki clan integrated with konohagakure

>is trained by the same guy that helps a purple cat fly about the galaxy and commit more acts of genocide than even frieza and they're all best buddies
>casually pokes a being that can wipe out universe with a thought and watched him destroy a planet likely inhabited with people out of boredom
There are theories that Goku is a psychopath that feeds on chaos to satisfy his thirst for violence. His inconsistent instances of doing the right thing and standing up for his friends are just him unconsciously putting up a false front so nobody really catches on.

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He just heard her issues and then used her to stop the machine. With White Diamond he just showed her that Pink was dead by almost dying himself.

if you ask me saying "she's gone" is still talk no jutsu

>emotional manipulation
He really does not.

user, the only reason they listen to Steven is because he is Pink's son. Looking back, Steven rarely has been successful at talking through his enemies, as an outside element is always the deciding factor.

Being Pink's son is what allowed him to talk to them, but what he said and did is what convinced them, not being Pink. He convinced them to accept him because not accepting flaws is how they lost "the things that make them happy". They looked down on Pink, and she knew this, and believed it herself, which is why she didn't feel up to the task and started a war against herself instead of facing the other diamonds properly like Steven did.

Being Pink's son is what allowed him to talk to them, but not what got them to take him seriously.

both are gay. who cares

Yeah, but that just means he is using their guilt over Pink to dismantle their empire.

Yes he does via guilt tripping, crying, and nepotism. Effectively every Gem Steven's ever "redeemed" follow him because of their love/hate relationship with Pink/Rose. While he screams "She's Gone REEE", he also insinuates himself as a replacement that they should follow now. Plus to one credit of the show, Steven is actually closer to his mother than he thinks he is. The movie showed that all his good deeds were so that he could have his "happy ending" where he can stuff his face full of Cookie Cats, Fries, and CHAAPS. He pawned off Spinel to the Diamonds because he didn't want to live on Homeworld and Spinel can be the Diamonds new toy to keep them out of his lazy fatcat life. His redemption is hollow because we see how he gave the evil eye to the Diamonds because he knew they weren't "redeemed", they're just faking it to make him happy because he was their replacement Pink Diamond.
In hindsight since Sugar loves ripping off anime, Steven has that too with his dream possession powers and his mind controlling Pink Wave aura. I wouldn't be surprised most if not all the Gems followed him because of that Pink Aura brainwashing them, especially since that same Pink Aura instantly turned Pearl back to normal in the movie.

Now THIS is autism.

I dunno, maybe Steven could convince Naruto to stop covering up his village committing genocide, to end branch Hyuuga slavery, to quit letting Orochimaru do his human experiments etc, etc
SU is about dismantling a fascist dictatorship via feelings. Naruto is about how he came to be the boss of a fascist dictatorship.

Tien was never evil
Piccolo was redeemed by Gohan
Vegeta only turns good after being continuously humiliated through the series
Frieza only turns good to get his life back
Beerus isn't evil

Soon

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>helps a purple cat fly about the galaxy and commit more acts of genocide
To be fair, that’s his job

GoDs are supposed to destroy shitty planets so evil shitters like Freeza or Buu wouldn’t be created. But of course Beerus didn’t do his job and Freeza/Buu roamed free and possibly did more damage did Beerus could ever do

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Nah, Hercule redeemed Buu because he was the only person to ever treat him nicely. Shenron just made people forget about Buu genociding the planet

RIGHT HERE
RIGHT NOW

Nope, though to be fair, the bitch was about to destroy the world and didn't seen to be in the talking mood to begin with.
Kabuto and Orochimaru are a weird case definitely, Kabuto probably gave up his evil ways and joined the village after the war, but with Orochimaru, he's treated in a weird compromised way of saying "We're at peace with, but the moment you try anything, we'll kill you the first chance we get"

I’m pretty sure At that point they would just have to exist and people would plead their undying allegiance to him.

>Naruto is stronger
We're talking about converting enemies; not fighting them

Steven. At least it took multiple episodes of actual fighting to be able to talk no jutsu them, Steven not only has changed genocidal gems minds within one episode but literally has a Canon ability to just make people come to his side for no reason whatsoever.

tfw you got talk no jutsu'd into liking SU by your own brain

>literally has a Canon ability to just make people come to his side for no reason whatsoever
what

Kinnikuman doesn't even really have to talk. He mostly makes his enemies rethink their life choices by standing up after a seemingly fatal blow. Then the bad guys realize they'll have Kinnikuman's conviction and start wavering in their ideals.

I think he’s talking about his empath powers.

that doesn't fit the description

It's been said that Beerus and Champa are the worst ones. This is why Zeno appeared after the U7 vs U6 tournament to put them in their place when Champa was about to kill his fighters. On the other hand you have Belmod having the Pride Troopers keep the peace in the galaxy and Helles spreading love and beauty throughout her galaxy.

Katakuri's mochi fists

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SU and Naruto fanbases are talking to each other? Nice!

Gross

is he white?

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Get that trash out of here

Naruto actually had to fight the Otsusukis which is his settings equivalent of the Great Diamond Authority, so Steven's talk no jutsu is stronger.

Izuku has never redeemed anyone. He's too busy sucking off Bakugou.

The worse Destroyer seemed to be the one for that universe filled with animal people.

I thought that guy was talking about Kid Buu being "redeemed" by being reincarnated as Uub.

>Frieza only turns good to get his life back
Frieza is still hardcore evil. He murdered Broly's dad just to trigger his tard rage, and at the end of the movie, he's destroying an alien civilization just to vent his frustration.

steven threw hands with most of the gems he redeemed, only Wander would qualify for no-violence talk no jutsu

By what sane definition is beating someone 90% to death not a blunt form of manipulation? Plus Naruto cries and guilt trips people about as much as Steven, probably more though his tears are coded as "manlier".

steven offered to let spinel stay on earth and she rejected it, what was he supposed to do (besides give her a hug)

Naruto has a wife and two kids

So do plenty of gays to be fair

Deku inspires people through actions more than words.

youtube.com/watch?v=gH3Sh3hRV-c

Still couldn't match up to Luffy's King No Jutsu.

That’s so gay

>It's another "any form of passive action is manipulation but aggression isn't" post
Fucking retard.

All of them are nothing compared to the ultimate friendmaker

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Steven had to get more and more physical throughout the show, and the the times he didn't, someone else was getting physical in his place.

I still question her abilities as a drill instructor.

Then maybe they’re talking about pink diamonds persuasion powers, because I can’t think of anything else.

how would they handle Eachother's villains?

It depends, if chakra is treated as something you can actually run out of, then Steven might be able to outlast them. But if it's like late Naruto where that doesn't matter even a little, he's fucked.

What are the rules here? Steven has the fox inside him and Naruto is the son of Rose or? Because that’s sort of the basis of their stories.

and yet, he loves sasuke more than them

also this

he sexy-jutsu'ed her
i like to see steven try that...actually no, nevermind, not that

Naruto needs to actually beat them in a fight first more often to get his talk no jutsu off, but the kind of people he redeems comes off as flat out ridiculous. At least with the diamonds they were all just part of a system that they didn't understand the flaws of and once Steven showed them another option they changed their mind. Orochimaru was genuinely evil as fuck and yet Naruto "redeems" him.

naruto isnt a pacifist really at all though, his talk-no-jutsu just happened to work every time