Have you read Criminal?

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I've read the first trade.

I've read the fourth trade. I'll get around to buying the rest eventually.

Pulling the current series. Good shit.

Thoughts?

So... did Brubaker comment on the current industry?

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The new volume kinda leaves me lukewarm. Doesn't have as much edge to as the old series and the constant jumping and irregular length in arcs feels like Brubaker can't really decide what he wants to be doing. I mean, the current arc's going to last like 13 issues or something, iirc, while the book launched with a single issue story that kinda cuts off and then you had that comic con arc that was okay but not as gritty noir as one would like.

There's a few flashbacks in it, right? You think they pad things out too much?

I read the first six volumes. Bad Night is my favorite, The Last of the Innocent a close second. I tend to dislike the stories focusing on Lawless, because the guy is buring, just a big, burly brick of a character, feels very token and uninspired compared to all the other protagonists, which are much more human and layered.

Maybe it's because I haven't read it in a while, but I can't recall him emoting. Maybe he cried one?

If anyone who hasn't read this series isn't planning to I recommend you at least read The Last of the Innocent.
Mainly because of how different it is from the rest in its presentation.

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Yeah, that's him, he's just the big, gruff stoic badass. He should be the main character of an action comic, not a noir.

>He should be the main character of an action comic

So you dislike Max Allan Collins' Quarry series?

Not him, but that series is a war comic right?
So, basically, he's saying Tracy Lawless would be a more fitting central character in a comic like that.
Not sure if it would make him like Tracy more though. He'd still be the same.

>but that series is a war comic right?

No, Quarry is about a Nam vet who after getting back from the war murders his wife's lover and then becomes a hitman and is very stoic, pragmatic and hard as nails when it comes to doing the job, i.e. similar to Tracy's deal in Criminal. Quarry had one season long TV series recently which was pretty great, but made him more humane and traumatized, it was different but very interesting take on the military guy turns into a criminal trope.

Yeah. I like the whole “Archie” vibe going on.

Ah. Thanks.

Yeah. For some reason when Freakout tells Riley who the real Brookview stalker was I found it to be humorous. maybe because of the subject matter, and it still used the Archie comics style to present it.

>So you dislike Max Allan Collins' Quarry series?
Original user here. I actually love those books, but Quarry feels a bit more textured to me. Maybe it's the fact that the books are entirely told from his viewpoint, while part of Lawless stories have a third person narrator.

What about young Tracy?

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Still haven't read that volume, I'm on the first 6.

It's a crime/noir book by Brubaker and Phillips.
They're all pretty much good-to-amazing.

Any personal favourites?
I think I'm partial to Last of the Innocent myself. Though I only read mostly Criminal by them.

>Sleeper
>Criminal
>Incognito
>Fatale
>The Fade Out
>Kill or Be Killed

How would you rank these, lads?

I ain't an expert but I've got a friend who seems like he's read them all.
Me personally I've only read vol4 (the comic artist one) and Fade Out.
I always love when an artist has clashing/different artstyles in one setting (like the Dick Tracy looking imaginary friend) bit I think I liked Fade Out a bit more just because it was a more fleshed out story.

> Dick Tracy imaginary friend
That's the Bad Night four parter. Kind of small scale.

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Criminal > My Heroes Have Always Been Junkies > Incognito > The Fade Out > Sleeper > Kill Or Be Killed > Fatale

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Teeg's war days could be an interesting read.

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Fatale's kind of supernatural as well as Noir. They don't mix well to you?

Any recommendations for other crime-related comics?

I've read five or six trades and I really like it

>Sleeper
>Criminal
>The Fade Out
>Incognito
>Kill or Be Killed
>Fatale

The supernatural Cthulhu stuff was always ruining the otherwise good noir story.

Maybe if the styles were separated?

I wouldn't mind the supernatural angle if it was actually spooky. But it wasn't, you just had gangsters with monster faces and occasional cultists.

100 Bullets
Alack Sinner
Sandman Mystery Theatre
Stray Bullets

And a woman with hypnosis power.

1 - Sleeper
2 - The Fade Out
3 - Criminal
4 - Incognito
5 - Fatale
6 - Kill or Be Killed

Scalped, ofc Sin City and on the manga side Golgo 13 and Oldboy.

Reminder that Brubaker wrote for Catwoman.

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Thanks. I actually read a bit of Stray Bullets before. Does the Pulp Fiction style storytelling ever get confusing?

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Does it compare? I'm aware this series kept changing writers.

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did you read the next issue?

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Missed that part. That's actually kind of touching.

WHERE THE FUCK IS THE SEQUEL TO COWARD BRUBAKER

>WHERE THE FUCK IS THE SEQUEL TO COWARD BRUBAKER
He's locked up man. No real chance of getting out.

If you mean Leo.
I don't think he's getting out of this one.

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If you mean Leo.
I don't think he's getting out of this one.

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But he does

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GOD FUCKING DAMN IT. I WAS FINALLY GOING TO PICK THAT TRADE UP.
Does this ruin it?

I doubt he's getting out of prison though.

no, this isn't even the only trade that shows that he makes it out alive. The second volume has him meet up with lawless.
Because you're using regular logic instead of comic logic.

> Regular logic
Fair point. Still, Criminal is more grounded compared to cape.
There's a second volume? Junkies is a standalone novella, isn't it?

Not really. When I first bought the Uber Alles I was expecting something more "indie" or pretentious, but Stray Bullets is very well done boilerplate stuff. If anything's confusing in these crime comics it's keeping up with the multiple characters in 100 Bullets.

> Uber Alles
Must have been expensive.

>There's a second volume? Junkies is a standalone novella, isn't it?
Yes, junkies is a stand alone. But Leo surviving was confirmed in the 2nd tpb of Criminal: Lawless

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Brubaker has one of the best batting averages in comics history IMO

He must have had at least one miss?

Oh, certainly. I really disliked his work on mainline Batman. Which isn't totally his fault, he was wrapped up in the never ending Batcrossover that bled over from the 90s.
His Batman adjunct titles (Catwoman and Gotham Central) are superb however.

>no, this isn't even the only trade that shows that he makes it out alive
I'm referring to All My Heroes are Junkies. I know the actual identity of the main character is supposed to be a mystery before you start reading.

Its hard to say, it depends how much you understand the story, i don't feel so

These kinds of masks seem a little rare in co media. Apparently, they're hard to draw.

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It's nice to get the perspective of Gotham's Finest.

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Yeah, Gotham is such a crazy place. Always cool to see how civvies feel. Gotham Nights is a great 4 issue mini by Ostrander (also did a sequel, Gotham Nights II) that show Gotham from civilian perspective

100 bullets is still linear though, right?

Thanks. Will check those out.
Shame Gotham Central didn't feature a Scarecrow arc.

This particular moment from his Catwoman run felt a little Criminal esque to me. Maybe because of the headshot.

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It's full of POV stuff, someone you meet as a "victim" main character in one issue will show up as a "professional" supporting character later, you might see one of the early cases happening in the background of the current issue. Some domino effect with all the killing, stuff like that.

Got it. Thanks.

Parker by Darwyn Cooke based on the Richard Stark books.

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Yes.

I love Brubaker and Phillips. And picking up the floppies is always worth it for the extra essays.

IMO The Fade Out is his weakest.

I wouldn't call it a miss though.

The setting and characters are fun but as a noir mystery the end really fizzles out. Feels like a lot of strings are left hanging.

yeah the mystery sucked. great writing otherwise. would have preferred an anthology

>would have preferred an anthology
Considering how well it did they might always come back to it.

they could. brubaker will be writing noir until the heat death of the universe

Brubaker is so consistently awesome

>the end really fizzles out
>mystery sucked
Well:
>book called The Fade Out
>literally fades out
I kind of think the mystery was never the point and it was more about the exploration of Hollywood at the time.

>I kind of think the mystery was never the point and it was more about the exploration of Hollywood at the time.
That's all fine and dandy but the mystery dominates the story and the mystery isn't good at all. If it was only an exploration of Hollywood at the time with no mystery or the mystery was significantly downplayed I would have enjoyed it a lot more.