Schubert Edition
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This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.
>How do I get into classical?
This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:
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This is the thread.
can someone do a collage of all the pedo composers
my favorite general, truly riveting discussion
No one fucking cares.
lol retard
why are you faggots so afraid of the old pasta
About the time of Wagner's death, European nationalist movements were losing the Romantic, idealistic egalitarianism of 1848, and acquiring tints of militarism and aggression, due in no small part to Bismarck's takeover and unification of Germany in 1871. After Wagner's death in 1883, Bayreuth increasingly became a focus for German nationalists attracted by the mythos of the operas, who have been referred to by later commentators as the Bayreuth Circle. This group was endorsed by Cosima Wagner, whose anti-Semitism was considerably less complex and more virulent than Richard's. One member of the circle was Houston Stewart Chamberlain, the author of a number of 'philosophic' tracts which later became required Nazi reading. Chamberlain married Wagner's daughter, Eva. After the deaths of Cosima and Siegfried Wagner in 1930, the operation of the Festival fell to Siegfried's widow, English-born Winifred, who was a friend of Adolf Hitler. The latter was a fanatical admirer of Wagner's music and sought to incorporate it into his heroic mythology of the German nation. Hitler held many of Wagner's original scores in his Berlin bunker at the end of World War II, despite the pleadings of Wieland Wagner to have these important documents put in his care; the scores perished with Hitler in the final days of the war.
Many scholars have argued that Wagner's views, particularly his anti-Semitism and purported Aryan-Germanic racism, influenced the Nazis. These claims are disputed. Recent studies suggest that there is no evidence that Hitler even read any of Wagner's writings and further argue that Wagner's works do not inherently support Nazi notions of heroism. During the Nazi regime, Parsifal was denounced as being "ideologically unacceptable" and the opera was not performed at Bayreuth during the war years. It has been suggested that a de facto ban had been placed on Parsifal by the Nazis; however there were 23 performances at the Deutsche Oper Berlin, between 1939 and 1942, which suggests that no formal ban was in place.
The Nazi fascination with Wagner was largely inspired by Hitler, sometimes to the dismay of other high-ranking Nazi officials, including Joseph Goebbels. In 1933, for instance, Hitler ordered that each Nuremberg Rally open with a performance of the overture from Rienzi. He also issued one thousand free tickets for an annual Bayreuth performance of Meistersinger to Nazi functionaries. When Hitler entered the theater, however, he discovered that it was almost empty. The following year, those functionaries were ordered to attend, but they could be seen dozing off during the performance, so that in 1935, Hitler conceded and released the tickets to the public.
i like wagner but wagnerians are truly the worst scum alive.
In general, while Wagner's music was often performed during the Third Reich, his popularity actually declined in Germany in favor of Italian composers such as Verdi and Puccini. By the 1938–39 season, Wagner had only one opera in the list of fifteen most popular operas of the season, with the list headed by Italian composer Ruggero Leoncavallo's Pagliacci. Ironically, according to Albert Speer, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra's last performance before their evacuation from Berlin at the end of World War II was of Brünnhilde's immolation scene at the end of Götterdämmerung.
As part of the regime's propaganda intentions of 'Nazifying' German culture, specific attempts were made to appropriate Wagner's music as 'Nazi' and pseudo-academic articles appeared such as Paul Bülow's "Adolf Hitler and the Bayreuth Ideological Circle" (Zeitschrift für Musik, July 1933). Such articles were Nazi attempts to rewrite history to demonstrate that Hitler was integral to German culture.
There is evidence that music of Wagner was used at the Dachau concentration camp in 1933/34 to 'reeducate' political prisoners by exposure to 'national music'. However, there seems to be no documentation to support claims sometimes made that his music was played at Nazi death camps.
Some biographers have asserted that Wagner in his final years came to believe in the Aryanist philosophy of Arthur de Gobineau. However the influence of Gobineau on Wagner's thought is debated. Wagner was first introduced to Gobineau in person in Rome in November 1876. The two did not cross paths again until 1880, well after Wagner had completed the libretto for Parsifal, the opera most often accused of containing racist ideology. Although Gobineau's An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races was written 25 years earlier, it seems that Wagner did not read it until October 1880. There is evidence to suggest that Wagner was very interested in Gobineau's idea that Western society was doomed because of miscegenation between "superior" and "inferior" races. However, he does not seem to have subscribed to any belief in the superiority of the supposed Germanic or "Nordic race".
Wagner's conversations with Gobineau during the philosopher's 5-week stay at Wahnfried in 1881 were punctuated with frequent arguments. Cosima Wagner's diary entry for June 3 recounts one exchange in which Wagner "positively exploded in favour of Christianity as compared to racial theory." Gobineau also believed that in order to have musical ability, one must have black ancestry.
Wagner subsequently wrote three essays in response to Gobineau's ideas: Introduction to a Work of Count Gobineau, Know Thyself, and Heroism and Christianity (all 1881). The Introduction is a short piece written for the Bayreuther Blätter in which Wagner praises the Count's book:
We asked Count Gobineau, returned from weary, knowledge-laden wanderings among far distant lands and peoples, what he thought of the present aspect of the world; to-day we give his answer to our readers. He, too, had peered into an Inner: he proved the blood in modern manhood's veins, and found it tainted past all healing.
Beethoven
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In "Know Thyself" Wagner deals with the German people, who Gobineau believes are the "superior" Aryan race. Wagner, in fact, rejects the notion that the Germans are a race at all and further proposes that we should look past the notion of race to focus on the human qualities ("das Reinmenschliche") common to all of us. In "Heroism and Christianity", Wagner proposes that Christianity could function to provide a moral harmonization of all races, preferable to the physical unification of races by miscegenation:
Incomparably fewer in individual numbers than the lower races, the ruin of the white races may be referred to their having been obliged to mix with them; whereby, as remarked already, they suffered more from the loss of their purity than the others could gain by the ennobling of their blood [...] To us Equality is only thinkable as based upon a universal moral concord, such as we can but deem true Christianity elect to bring about.
Wagner's concerns over miscegenation occupied him until the very end of his life; he was in the process of writing another essay, On the Womanly in the Human Race (1883), at the time of his death, in which he discusses the role of marriage in the creation of races: "it is certain that the noblest white race is monogamic at its first appearance in saga and history, but marches toward its downfall through polygamy with the races which it conquers."
Wagner's son-in-law Houston Stewart Chamberlain expanded on Wagner and Gobineau's ideas in his 1899 book The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, a racist work extolling the Aryan ideal that later strongly influenced Adolf Hitler's ideas on race.
Beethoven
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>he listens to Bach on harpsichord
Beethoven
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Schubert's masses are criminally underrated and were an important influence on Bruckner.
Beethoven
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not really.
schubert as a whole was a big influence on bruckner that barely anyone acknowledges because they're either too busy sucking off wagner or calling bruckner a country bumpkin pedophile.
johann sebastian "CP" bach.
he was a pedophile we should take insporation from 17th century and start changing pedophiles names to include "CP" so that their crimes are forever remembered.
Do you have a source on that?
This isn't a Wagnerian this is a shitposter. Look at the previous thread, there are blocks of pastas posted about other composers and no one thinks it reflects negatively on the composer's fanbase.
Yet when anything related to Wagner is posted it is judged overwhelmingly harsher. Even a simple statement of adoration, which we have heard uncountably for Bach, is labelled obsessive and a nuisance. Wagnerians are a minority and this is just as vicious a discrimination and oppression as against the black slaves in America.
i'm glad we can agree that wagnerians are indeed niggers.
This has to be bait
16+?
Vivaldi is overrated.
>Even a simple statement of adoration, which we have heard uncountably for Bach, is labelled obsessive and a nuisance.
Bach is a genius, Wagner isn't.
>Wagner "positively exploded in favour of Christianity as compared to racial theory
He just like me fr
its literally in his name. what are you mentally sand blasted or something. are you that glazed over? look up his name and report back.
What does rhythm mean in classical music?
it means i did your mom real nice and good
You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.
So Wagner was a Norwood...
the heckin source is:
google search his full name.
Beethoven
i need a composition rival.
These are the kind of disparaging remarks that Wagnerians have to put up with.
Bach (formerly Vivaldi)
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Schubert
Organ btfos piano and harpsichord
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What did Bach meme by this???
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What did Bach meme by this???
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There's nothing disparaging about that.
did bach produce anything apart from pedophillia?
guy cummed his way through to the top.
guy made no contribution to music and you know that's a fact, he plagiarised Sechtor.
lol
the mass in b minor
i never get past the kyrie, its so long. I love the gloria but its too short.
Also wagner operas, the well tempered clavier, the grose fugue, diabeli variations, the zauberflote, don giovanni, (most operas really). And the art of fugue (complete), musical offering, etc etc.
Damn you're a fucking pleb
are you implying that bach wasn't a genius
lol retard
No
Show me the worst piece of your favorite composer.
Beethoven
Time to practice soon
What will you be listening to this Easter Sunday user?
has any piece ever made you cry
I'm heterosexual
Good Friday Music.