Did you notice the artstyle change and the drop in quality when you were a kid?

I remember when the new episodes started and I was turned off by them and stopped watching the show. There was a few years gap between seasons so it was exciting at first.
Johnny was somewhat okay but I hated the addition of the new cast.
Ppg was about the same quality all the way through for me.

I stopped watching because of the art change

Johnny Bravo was the only cartoon besides BTAS I stuck with post art change. I actually found some of the later JB episodes better than the original run

I only noted the change more in ppg , but in dexter case I thought it was simply because some episodes had better writers and animators

Yes, like a lot. And I fucking hate it.

CN didn't care about C&C, they liked I Am Weasel more than the show it spun-off from. Feiss even wanted to end IAW to focus more on C&C, until CN stepped in.

I was so happy for more Dexter's Laboratory. I stuck around and watched stuff of it, but it just wasn't the same.

There were some things I remember enjoying from the new stuff, particularly the college episode. "Party now, study later!"

JB was better post art change.

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There were some good episodes

I noticed, just like with Tom n Jerry.

I just couldn't catalogue them like I do now. I had no idea how many episodes were there which number each episode was assigned and I also couldn't tell the airdates.

Honestly this. All the characters and segments they added enhanced the cartoon. The original run was great but it really hit its stride with all the new characters. Johnny Bravo was a damn good show that was ended despite still being good.

Well, the biggest hint in the change of designs in episodes was the end credits. The 96-99 run had the Hanna-Barbera logo, while the 02-03 run had the Cartoon Network Studios logo.

i did not like the style of the new Batman series.

it was too simplistic.

and too focused on Robin.

Nah, I was more distracted by the fact that I was watching Dexter's lab.

Kinda like how as a kid you dont notice you're playing a bad game, you're just happy to be playing a game with your favorite characters.

It'd be hard not to.

>Johnny Bravo

JB didn't have Chris Savino's dirty hands all over itself, so it fared pretty good with its share of uplift.

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Yes, i tought dexter himself looked better, but everything else really worse.

Actually, it was like the CN at the time for my country had noticed for me. After the first batch of "new" episodes was done airing, they immediately went back to running old episodes. I don't think I saw anything post movie more than once, now that I think about it

Artstyle change, yes.
Drop in Quality, no.
I was an easily satisfied kid.

I noticed the quality difference before the art difference.

Hairy armed Dad was the best and a total Chad

I feel bad for Feiss, he cleary wanted C&C to be his hit show until the executives demanded him to make a middle segment, as other CN shows like Dexter and Johnny Bravo had that. However, compared to Justice Friends/Dial M for Monkey and Jungle Boy, the execs really liked Weasel, to the point it was advertised as it's own show despite being a middle segment, an Weasel and Baboon being featured in commercials unlike the other middle segments

Understandbly, Feiss wasn't pleased when C&C was cancelled in favor for more Weasel, as he still wanted to make more episodes and even had plans for a movie. They only made 9 half hours (as opposed to the standard 13) of Weasel, as Feiss didn't want to make more. After that, he worked on Lost Cat, a failed pilot that didn't get picked up and was a storyboard in a few early Billy & Mandy episodes (Maxwell Atoms worked on Feiss' shows) until he left CN for good to work for Nick, Disney and eventually Sony Animation

It's really sad, yes. I liked C&C more than IAW myself too. But what was it with the first three Cartoon Cartoons and that Hanna-Barbera-style of ABA-episodes? I kinda liked it with Dexter's Lab/Dial M for Monkey/Super Friends, but Jungle Boy was boring as fuck and I Am Weasel was vastly inferior compared to C&C.
Luckily, they dropped that with the Powerpuff Girls.

Yes.

I was too young but I did notice the shift in American Dragon S1 to S2.
I liked S2's style more.

Yeah. I definitely remember wondering what the fuck happened and very quickly noticing which art style had the worse episodes.

Makes me wonder, did Maxwell Atoms come up with Evil Con Carne himself, or did the executives say he needed a middle segment?

Yes. It annoyed the fuck out of me. I use to bare hatred for "Chris Savino" because I saw it was a new name attached to every new episode so I naturally blamed him for everything and refused to watch anymore episodes of Dexter's Lab or PPG

While I wouldn't say the pre-change season was bad, the addition of Carl and Pops really added to the show. It gave Johnny more foils to work with than just Susie and his blinding stupidity. I do recall the last season being rather weird, where the art changed slightly again and felt more like the early cartoons.

Atoms did create a separate pilot for Evil Con Carne in 2000, but I think CN liked Evil Con Carne more and gave Billy & Mandy a second chance through The Big Pick.
Then, they gave the shows the ABA-episodes treatment with the Grim & Evil run to see which show is actually the better of the two (clearly B&M).

That was because Partible was placed back as the showrunner. Partible often said he actively hated the second and third season of JB, that it ruined his vision of the show. So, of course he reverses everything - returning more towards the S1 art style, less appearances of Carl & Pops and retracting some of Johnny's dumbing down.

Fuck, I barely even remember Jungle Boy. Must not have had that many segments since I could barely scrounge up any memory of it until just now. As for "I am Weasel" and the Dexter segments, I felt like they were fairly entertaining, but it was a shame that the former overtook the show it was made to run within. Justice Friends and Monkey managed to never overstay their welcome, and were even tied into the main show pretty nicely at times. Though now that I think about it, weren't there rumors of a Justice Friends spinoff that never got off the ground?

It was weird because they would show one episode with new style, and then the next episode with old style. Just at random.

Still felt like something really off. Like it didn't always feel like the first season, but definitely not like the second and third. Though I guess he must have compromised the writing to meld the two styles and that was probably why it felt kind of hazy.

Johnny bravo had a change?

They actually blended episodes out of the different seasons? Christ, they must have been desperate to promote the new style and episodes.

Yeah. The title cards also were a big tip-off, how they went from unique artwork for each one to generic episode name + one of 3 small pictures of Dexter near them.

Are you talking about season 2-3? I think first one is boring and 4th is just terrible.

Yes. I actually liked the new episodes just as much as the old ones. The art looked so cool to me and some episodes expanded on the lore of the show. Looking back, I don't like how unfaithful the art was to the old seasons, how they ruined dad, those new actors, and how SLOW some episodes are. But there are some memorable episodes in there I will admit.

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I barely knew until sometime after the new season had started. I had figured, and was just fine with Ego Trip being the end of the series. While it wasn't a complete closer to the show like what we'd get years later with the likes of the finale for KND or Ed, Edd, n Eddy; the movie still had a very "final" feel to it that a lot of fans were content enough with. Then I saw the new stuff, and goddamn did it bug me.
>Giving Mandark parents after the original show left it open to whether he had somehow emancipated himself from them, or did something terrible to them
>They were just one big hippie joke, and not even a funny one
>trying to make Dexter's dad "cool" when he was more entertaining as the oblivious busybody dad
>The fucking artstyle

>new actors
I thought it was only Dexter's who changed, and as I understand that was because the lady who played him had some really sad personal problems.

Don't forget that they got rid of his sister

>look it up
>she retired in 2001
Huh. I recall there being a few season 3 episodes with his old actor.

>his blinding stupidity
Johnny wasn't supposed to be stupid though, just egocentric and women-crazy. I hated that they made him a generic "retarded pretty boy" in the following series.
And while I admit the humour post-change often got me, I always thought it was more low-brow than the original run.

What made JB S1 was it's crew. Petkov, Hartman, MacFarlane, McIntyre and Marmel wrote and directed most of those episodes, but went on to do other things after CN didn't immediately picked up the show's second season and Turner fired Partible.
In season 2 and 3, Tingland and Spingarn (the new showrunners) were essential to the show's identity during their run, but left, along with most of the S2&3 crew during the second hiatus.
Partible tried to save JB by mixing the styles, but lacked what made those seasons good on their own - the crew.
Johnny Bravo's production troubles were a mess o' blues from the beginning, as it was the least liked pilot of the CN execs compared to Dexter, PPG, C&C and Courage.

No, but I didn't start watching Cartoon Network until after the series ended.

He was somewhat dumb, just not a retard. His comment about opening the tomb of the unknown soldier for example was both stupid and inconsiderate.

When I was a kid I had no idea what "canon" really was but it just confused me the fuck out of me as a big Dexter fan about all these sudden changes when the earlier episodes did something completely different

I thought she only had the one episode. And really, she just felt like a huge joke on Mandark's debut. I mean hell, they practically retreaded all of the initial beats from his episode, but with Deedee.

Definitely noticed the change in Dexter and was immensely put off by it. What was worse was it felt like they only ever aired the crappy new episodes, too.
This I definitely noticed as well.
I hated the new style at first, but the more I watched, the more I thought it looked better - plus the show became far more engaging that season so it only helped its case

Eh, hard to say it was a case of canon, but certainly the consistency of characters was blighted by the changes post-Ego trip. Dexter went from barely giving a shit about his parents beyond keeping them unaware of his lab to suddenly having a fuss about his dad's profession, and I think his grandfather too. Can't recall if he had a hangup about his mom as well, but that was just one of the many issues with the final seasons.

Shame it and Juniper Lee never got the closure they deserved. They had pretty fun premises and were a fun sendup of Asian mythology blended into American culture. Though if I recall, American Dragon did have something of an end, just not entirely conclusive, while Juniper left just as a big bomb was dropped on the main character's worldview.

>Weren't there rumors of a Justice Friends spinoff that never off the ground?
Haven't heard about that, but it sounds possible. Only thing I know is that Mina and the Count (a What a Cartoon short) was considered to be the middle segment before JF was chosen

>Mina and the Count was considered to be the middle segment
Poor Renzetti, he just wanted his own show...

I thought American Dragon did have a conclusive ending?
I don't remember all of it, but wasn't it something to the effect that the big bad dragon was defeated, plus the dad found out about the family secret and accepted them all for who they were. Seemed like a pretty tight-knit ending

Huh, never knew that. Definitely doesn't fit quite as nicely as JF and DMFM did, given the former allowed for all kinds of potential heroics with Dexter, and of course we all know how the latter was tied to Dexter himself.
Could have sworn there were still loose plot threads that weren't addressed, or at least setting up for another season before it got axed for good.

Does make you wonder what Courage would have been like had that been saddled sandwiching some unrelated cartoon between the main segments.

Remember when he worked on a weird localization of a korean cartoon?

I call it the Savino effect.
In which whatever he makes turns to garbage.

When he's not in charge, he can do some good. Guy clearly needs someone to be there to twist his ear and keep him in line.

Why it even had its art style changed?

I remember thinking that the new episodes were actually really old ones they had dug up, since the humor was so weak by comparison.

I had seen other shows' pilots and early episodes that looked drastically different and less appealing, so it made sense to little kid me at the time. And I couldn't believe that the creators actually thought the redesigns were an improvement.

Pretty sure it was commissioned a good few years after the original series had ended, so a lot of the staff were likely off on new projects, namely Genndy going on to make Samurai Jack into a full show (surprised I had never known about its pilot until only recently).

Hanna-Barbera closed down, so Cartoon Network Studios took over

Of course.

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If would be horrible, as it would probably butcher Courage.

Dexter, Cow & Chicken and Johnny Bravo episodes where three 7-minute-shorts, where Courage and 1998 PPG episodes were two 11-minute-shorts.

Their pilots however were also 7 min. like the first 3, but I think the 11-min. episodes gives more room for jokes, stories and the more varied characters PPG and Courage had compared to the first 3.

Plus, what kind of shorts would fit in between? Unlike the first 3, PPG and Courage were a superhero and a horror comedy shows, not the same like the main trio. Adding these shorts would've kill the vibe of the episodes.

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It could go either way. It honestly worked out really well for Dexter's Lab, and it felt like those writers enjoyed switching things up and playing with some different characters. The Courage crew was a creative & unpredictable bunch, so I imagine they would've done something cool with the setup.

I imagine if the creator were given enough freedom (but still doing it because of CN demanding it), he might have been able to make the segment fit. But if it were something like him having to work with someone else who was in charge of the middle show, it certainly could have been a disaster.

Absolutely and same with Doug.

Dilworth is a fascinating man, so he'd probably find something to make it work. I'm happy that Courage and EEnE got that freedom due to CN allowing the creators to work in their own studio and have that creative control.

>Can't recall if he had a hangup about his mom as well,
There was that awful chess tournament episode where Dexter shat on his mom for cheering on him throughout the game.
That episode was slow as fuck, I remember there was a scene where there was a slow ass fade to black moment, and then reveals Dexter's mom looking like she's been fucking beaten with broken teeth and a black eye, like what the fuck? There was seriously no context as to what happened in that scene, it was so bad.
Fuck Savino, man. The artstyle became so stiff as well, which ended up killing funny expressions like "DE HORROR, DE HORROR."

>Savino's first animation job was in Ren and Stimpy during the Spumco years
>Turns out decades later that he and John K were creeps and hacks

I've never watched Dexter's Laboratory, so no

I think Jungle Boy was just one pilot and a couple of crossover appearances with JB.

Dirty Birdy?

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Yes, and i stopped watching.

Honestly as a kid I was most concerned as to why Dexter sounded so fucking different.

everyone is entitled to their own opinions but season 2's artstyle just comes off as cheap and/or rushed to me

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what is this?

It was definitely worse yeah.

that show was awful in general

I noticed it was never good

>everyone is entitled to their own opinions

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soul vs soulless

art style yes, but it was always bad

wasn't the season 2's design based off of the original drawings for the cartoon?

Ehhhh.

Juniper Lee was *not* a very well done show. While her plight was on paper sympathetic and kinda cruel that she got fucked over by fate the way she did, she just complained too much. Every dialogue bit she ever uttered felt like a whiny complaint. Again and again and again. And then some more. This kind of petulance destroyed any sympathy she could have had and in general, who wants to watch a show where all the hero does is bitch about everything even while fighting monsters and whatever?

Not helping was how her Grandma kinda had a rather "tough shit" attitude about it all.

don't know, too lazy to research myself. if you could enlighten me about these drawings though, that'd change my perception for sure.

I am actively having my mind blown rn, I could have sworn season 1 was a later season and Pops and Carl were always part of the show and they got rid of them for more "kid appeal". Crazy.

>Did you notice the artstyle change and the drop in quality when you were a kid?

You can blame Christ Savino for the drastic change.

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For a show with a cow there was not much to milk there.

Season one was honestly passable, a solid B-.

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>Not helping was how her Grandma kinda had a rather "tough shit" attitude about it all.
Well, she had probably long since accepted the limitation when she was the guardian or whatever the title was called, likely becoming cynical about it because in her time she likely had nobody to turn to who would help her.

the original image a models sheet showing the right and wrong way to draw Dib on Invader Zim, but it had be edited so that the "wrong" Dib is just the way he looks in the Netflix movie. Poking fun at how Jonen's artstyle has shifted so far away from how it was back then.

The whole show was already finished by the time I started watching it, and the episodes weren't run in any particular order, so not really. The style change is mostly evident in Dexter's dad, who isn't a major character, so I didn't think about it much.

No, because I didn't watch Dexter' Lab by this point in time anymore.

I also didn't have a satellite/cable subscription either.

Did Tartarkovsky ever comment on season 3 and 4?

Not that I've ever heard. Probably didn't bug him too much, at least, not enough to come back into the show and salvage it.

>2seanson get finaly to lore
>Can;t watch it because the artsyle change

The only characters I liked were Dog and Grandma.

[Whipcrack intensifies]

>frame by frame Johnny Test
I think we can all agree with that.

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>shitting on Genndy's artstyle
What's next, you're gonna say that cartoons were better in the 80s because "muh anatomy"?

I was once watching dad centered episode from newer seasons and didnt even notice it was Dexter show

This. If Dexter looked like the Savino redesigns from the start, it wasn't that bad. But Tartakovsky's designs are much more better and charming than Savino's - it's insulting that it's redesigned that way.

It doesn't help the show kinda went downhill afterwards.

The Golf episode was fucking terrible

I never noticed the artstyle change

But i only remember that dexter in the early 00s felt “slow” and aimless

How come Ed Edd n Eddy was the only one that changed the setting and look, yet still managed to be good?

I did and I liked it.

Because EEnE was still produced by the same staff, studio and showrunner. Dexter and PPG's later seasons were run by Savino and another crew after Cartoon Network Studios got separated from Hanna-Barbera Productions. Johnny Bravo has changed showrunners twice.

>Chad American Dragon vs. Virgin Hapa Lizard

And DuckTales.

I'm 29 years old by the way.

And JB became what it is AFTER Hartman and Macfarlane were booted out, sadly the renewed new seasonaas were weak and garbage, including the India one.

The entire Sand Whale episode was an homage to one of his relatives

They changed Suzie in season 2 to act more like Johnny's foil and parthner along with the dog, she even got the flaming hair.

Johnny Bravo had like 3 different changes.

I knew something was off but I didn't knew what

The Dragon Ball parody with clams was the only memorable thing from season 2-3

Yes

the only real artstyle change in eene was going from cel to digital coloring, aside from that the change in the characters appearance was gradual and just came about from the artists getting more and more used to drawing them in certain ways. Though fun fact, they were dragged into digital paints kicking and screaming, the final episode of season 4 "take this ed and shove it" was the last traditionally colored episode of a western tv show

Art style, definitely.
Quality, no.
I didn't have a critical mind as a kid so I liked most things regardless of quality.

I noticed Suzy looked different but that was it.

The special look so wrong, plus boring as fuck

I remember CN doing this weekend long Dexter's Lab marathon on the day the season with the art style change premiered and I remember the dad's design especially sticking out like a sore thumb. I still watched the show for a while but eventually fell out of it.

The only part I didn't about Bravo's art style change was the hideous new design they gave to the Susie but they eventually changed it back so all was good there.

they were lucky enough to keep the same talented team who had worked on the previous seasons. plus, they didn't milk it for that long, just 1 season and a movie.

There are very few memorable post-style change episodes. This being one of them.

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Not really

Yeah, I saw one episode and immediate lost interest in the series. If an episode came on that looked like the old seasons I watched, but if it looked like that shit I switched to something else or played a game.

It was that one Mandark episode, where they made everything sound like his laugh. They milked that shitty, awful joke for an ENTIRE episode. Even 12 year old me was incapable of tolerating such bullshit.

I remember a running gag with characters staring at each other in total silence for like a minute or so. Drove me insane.

Not again

The new VA for Dexter was one of the worst things about it, just too over the top. PPG got a slight redesign for the last couple seasons (before the reboot) as well but I don't remember the drop in quality being as noticeable though it was there.

I liked it.

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It's lazinesd

YOU'RE RIDIN' THAT HAWG

those backgrounds are shit

The redesigns weren't by Genndy you fucking imbecile.

As many have pointed out, the shift was gradual, and the staff never changed much beyond probably a few writers swapping out. Plus, the creator kept a close eye on how his characters acted, never allowing CN to change his babies behind his back.

This is probably the only good one.

The bishie looking fucker from that Koosy episode was pretty funny, given how he was a rag on effeminate anime villains who like to monologue every time they appear onscreen. Too bad the rest of the episode was just Dexter and Koosy bumbling around, and the weird dream-god thing turning into Tetsuo from Akira was just fucking bizarre. Amazed they even got away with that since he fucking turns inside out.

I think a common consensus was the the middle seasons were mostly the best, with the only major flaw being how they dumbed down Johnny

Exactly this, I knew something was off and could tell how old an episode was but didn't think much beyond that

>the only major flaw being how they dumbed down Johnny
And Suzie's redesign.

I always found her seasons 2-3 design the most memorable, though I think it's weird that they changed it so much anyway.

On a brief side not while we're talking about Johnny Bravo and the like, it's it weird when you're trying to look up some information and end up on the wiki of a show that doesn't have any sort of devoted fandom? You always get the most half-assed shit and it's usually pretty hilarious. Like look that this shit
>debuted in Season 2, in which who is many people especially considers him to be extremely annoying.
who read this and thought it was okay to post?

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Don't tell me that's by Based Bunnox coming back to draw cute lewd boys?

SATURDAYS ARE FOR DADS

When I was a kid, I have golden rule that if cartoon is brighter, stop watching.

Ed edd eddy and looney tune are only one that broke the rule.

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Not only did I notice the artstyle change, I was disgusted by the change in voice actors too.

Candi Milo did the most piss-poor impersonation of Christine Cavanaugh I've ever heard.

absolutely

>who read this and thought it was okay to post?
That question can be asked of many wikis.

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>When I was a kid, I have golden rule that if cartoon is brighter, stop watching.
What the fuck does that even mean?

Probably referring to the color palette.

What about the furry episode?

Somewhat, but the original designs were pretty awful.

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Digital ink and colors.

The colors aren't too bad, but the proportions are definitely kind of wonky.

Season 1 Johnny had no whipcracks.

That villian looks like he's straight from FOP

The Wacky Races episode was fun.

And here's Jake's human form from the books.

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I totally forgot this happened until now

I did find the newer episode more crass and filled with more infantile humor but I was an easily satisfied kid so whatevs

>Could have sworn there were still loose plot threads that weren't addressed,
I remember them making a big deal at first about no one knowing the big bad dragon's identity only to end up doing nothing with that

Why does that say “the gnome eater” lmao

Not at all. They were also bad.