DC Comics

they will make reboot after rebirth?!

No but only do it every 25 years

I don't like reboots, but the problem with DC is not that they keep doing reboots, is that they've never truly, fully rebooted.
None of those were full reboots, they always kept a lot of previous continuity, creating progressively bigger messes.

You're out of your mind if you think that's better than the mess DC has created.

It's the most beloved continuity by everyone. I don't think anyone likes the shit we have now unless they're a newfag who started reading recently and doesn't know better.

Yup

Are they ever reboots, though. More like just rebranding to have a temporary spike on sales

Yes, because they never fix the core problem: unsustainable universes.

Basically, every time DC reboots, they always hand a comic to some writer to create a "hard" canon for the character. However, as time goes on, this canon causes major issues since every comic leaves less room for other writers to explore. So another reboot is needed to clean the slate, and the cycle begins again.

DC would be better doing a "corporate" reboot. Instead of letting a writer create their "unique vision", get a committee together to distill the core aspects of the characters and go from there. Write a character bible, but leave air for exploration. It might not be as sensational current comics, but I'm sure it would lead to a more consistent product.

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Yes and they shouldn't be doing it so often.

Hot take, DC should scale down their power levels for a while. Keep it moderately street level and tone down the God/Space/Multiverse stuff. Go back to basics. It's one of my biggest issues with modern comics.

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based

So, this "Flash of Two Worlds" was a first reboot of sorts?

This
I worked at a ship during the 52 launch and prior to release/preview/reviews we were all convinced issue #1 would modernize the character origins and tell updates and new interwoven stories from the beginning

You can see how some books really weren’t affected by the Flashpoint like GL but then other things like “wait was Nightwing not robin on the Titans? Who are these titans and what the fuck is everyone doing”
It did have some gems like Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E. Among others

At a shop

DC was a fucking mess at the time, if I recall a bunch of artists quit because they couldn't keep up. CERTAIN writers just wouldn't communicate wtf they were doing.
Green Lantern continuing was a good thing, of course it contributed to the mess though. One book had All-New, All-Gay Alan Scott for months while GL sorta showed the original one.

>All the last three """reboots""" have done is give the current readership a prefect point to jump off. They don't pull anyone in new because they're never even a fucking reboot. It's always some confusing quasi-reboot were no one knows what the fuck is going on.

exactly this. somehow it winds up making things even more convoluted than before

They’re never actually rebooted. Just dressed up a relaunch.

Yes. The bulk of the problems they have right now are the result of digging themselves into a hole with too many reboots. I think New 52 was the reboot that broke them. Their "universe" was still salvageable before that, but not anymore.

marvel shill here
can someone fucking explain the DC reboots/timelines/universes?

Nah I’d say the first reboot was showcase: the Flash. Which retconned the golden age (Jay, Alan, etc) as non canon to the main universe.

To be fair gods and spave aren integral to most of DC's A-listers. So it's hard not to incorporate them into the story.

It is because they keep doing it wrong. They kill off everyone you loved and replace them with cosmic duplicates. COIE set a bad precedent, and the closest you get to confirmation that the old worlds exist in some capacity is via hypertime cameos.

Fuck all that. When you want to reboot, do it the Gardner Fox way. Have the old Earth meet and team up with the new and pass the torch after killing some cosmic threat. The old Earth rides off into the sunset and tells the new that if they ever need them, they’ll be there.

Do what Kamen Rider does.

To be fair, Marvel continuity is even worse. It’s IT JUST WORKS the continuity with sliding timescale being the ultimate handwave.

I suppose Gods are fine, I mean limit their power in some way. Make them more superhuman and less reality warping. If you know what I mean.

Not necessarily. It's basically like starting with a new alternate universe each time they do it.
I don't ignore the stuff they've done before, I just add in the new stuff.

That was an example of how it should be done. Gardner Fox had the perfect solution and future writers pissed it away because I WANT THERE TO BE ONE WORLD LIKE MARVEL.

It's because you can never actually erase the old stories--they still exist, even if you kill them and retcon them, so it creates disharmony in the narrative.

Instead of having a world, you now have world whose origin necessitates talking about another world before it that died. Retcons like COIE seek to make things simple while making them more convoluted.

THIS.

Only thing I would add would be establishing that there are worlds that won't changed and won't be touched. There's always a world with Superman lifting a green car. There's always a world where it's the 1960's and the silver age. ETC.

If you want to make new stories about new earths, put them in multiverse duplicates of those old worlds so no one will get pissed if you write a story where the old Earth 2 JSA all get BTFO by Infinity Inc or whatever.

If they weren't idiots they'd just use hypertime and the vibration worlds as intended.

Vibration worlds have the same time and the same multiverse framework, but access different worlds with different multiverse frameworks via hypertime.

Make it a classification system.

Earth-5 is Thunderworld, but via hypertime accesses PC Earth-S, Monster Society of Evil Shazam, the old live action Shazam series with Isis, etc.

Pre-Crisis Earth-2 is a multiverse duplication of Earth-2. New Earth is a multiverse duplicate of The Just.

Basically, vibrations allow you to move between Earths in the same multiverse. Hypertime lets you move between earths outside the multiverse.

This is simple, elegant, and feels natural to the lore and intent of both a vibrational multiverse and a hypertime multiverse.

So naturally instead of doing that, Johns cocks it up by doing the metaverse and Snyder with his dark multiverse and Perpetua shit.

They've had one full on reboot over 30 years ago and even the one from 2011 was undone. I'm surprised people still talk out their ass about this.

The stupid thing they always do is something extremely restrictive. Like for instance take New 52 Earth 2. After that got created there was that stupid rule that characters on there can't be on the main DC Earth. Or post-COIE where because they wanted Superman to be the only Kryptonian they had to do a lot of mental gymnastics to say why Supergirl and others weren't Kryptonians.

Each of these eras surprisingly brought something to the table that if you take away, it looks diminished. Like I think doing the original Earth-Two to begin with and keeping the Golden Age Earth separate (and moving in real time) was a good idea, but then I also liked Jay being part of the Flash Family more than I care about Superman being the first superhero in his universe.

Yes, because they keep fucking it up.

Instead of doing one definitive reboot that starts everything from square one and builds from there, they keep doing these quasi-reboots that change the backstory and tweak the status quo but keep things in the same point chronologically. Every reboot misses the mark because the changes piss off the existing readers but enough of the old continuity remains to make the comics impenetrable to new readers, and it actually becomes worse because of the changes clashing with each other. And on top of that every reboot is built off of some event that remains relevant to the new story. It just never makes sense.

Batman is a great marker of how fucked up this is. The #1 question about Batman comics is what order to read them in. Part start with Year One, naturally, and then have to jump around years of stories to piece together the rest of it. This is how new readers want to experience comics, they want to start from Part I, Act I, Scene I and move forward chronologically and they just can't do it with DC. There hasn't been an in-continuity "present day" story with Dick Grayson as Batman's permanent partner in 50 years. Every reboot has skipped his tenure as Robin completely. Post-Crisis Batman still had Jason as Robin, while the New 52 had every Robin jammed into a five year period. A true reboot would have Dick as Robin.

Marvel has never needed a full-scale reboots because they've always kept the old Stan Lee stories in continuity, so for the most part it's actually possible to read from the first Spider-Man story to the present day and have it be one mostly coherent story. The Marvel approach to continuity works, the DC approach doesn't.

DC needs to make the very hard decision to make that one true reboot and establish a stable, continuous continuity. Once they do that they can fit safely into the binge culture.

>DC needs one more reboot.
No retard. Just do You just need to use the tools good writers like Morrison and Fox created.

>Marvel continuity is good
Hello? Sliding Timescale? Absolutely none of the Lee era stuff is canon in any recognizable form.

Lee era Ben Grimm served with Fury in Korea. Figure THAT one out dumbshit.

>They want to start part 1 act 1
There are plenty of runs to pick from you can read from beginning to end for a full story.

That's about as stupid a question as you could ask.

Only 2 of those are reboots though.

Honestly, as much as I hate retcons, they could probably use some to just fix shit instead of having to reboot everything. Getting rid of Identity Crisis, bringing back Ted Kord (and fixing Max) etc.

Sliding timeline kinda works, though.

>Ross is now born in the 70's
Sureeeee it does.

3 at least, no?

Sliding timeline works so long as you don't think about it and don't look at it closely.

Which means it doesn't work at all.

Flash of Two Worlds isn't a reboot and didn't gain any significance until decades later.
Crisis is a reboot.
Zero Hour is just fixing some issues that Crisis created, but not a reboot.
Infinite Crisis is not a reboot.
Flashpoint is a reboot.

At most you can say they've had 2.5 reboots, or 3.5 if you count Rebirth.

The version explained by Galactus sounds as much like bullshit as some physics theories, like infinite alternate universes IRL, but most everyone just nods about those and goes "sure, sure"! It's not too implausible for superhero comics.

>Sliding timeline kinda works, though.
This, if DC did the Sliding Timeline they wouldn't have as much problems as they do everytime they need to introduce the JSA, for exemple.
But i already know the most retarded of the DC shills will have problem with this reply.

>Zero Hour is just fixing some issues that Crisis created, but not a reboot.
Wasn't it the worst kind of reboot?
>Everyone dies, universe restarts, everyone reroll their characters!

It was as much a reboot as Secret Wars.

It didn't really reboot much though. Most of the changes from Crisis stayed.

Now this I can't deny, can I? They even brought back characters they weren't even gonna bother explaining.

>You just need to use the tools good writers like Morrison and Fox created.

In-universe explanations for multiple continuities is retarded nerd shit that nobody cares about. That's the kind of bullshit that fucks DC up in the first place.

>Absolutely none of the Lee era stuff is canon in any recognizable form.

Sure it is. The events of those stories are still referenced often. Getting hung up on details like Iron Man being in Vietnam is just more retarded nerd shit. The actual story still happened. Every comic book is a product of its own time, the reader knows this, and Marvel's approach of just rolling with it is by far the best option. It's definitely superior to DC's approach of making continuity itself the focus of their stories with all the Crisis bullshit.

>runs

An inadequate compromise. Nobody wants to watch JUST Season 4 out of a 10-season series, they want to watch the whole series to get the entire story.

>Is retarded nerd shit that nobody cares about
Metal, Multiversity, and Convergence sold well and were all about the multiverse.

>Sure it is
Bullshit.

>An inadequate compromise. Nobody wants to watch JUST season 4 out of a 10 season series
Obviously you don't know a lot of people. If you followed Trek after DS9 you're a retard. Some people have only seen one or two versions of Cyborg 009--most have not seen all. More people have seen Devilman Crybaby than the 70's Devilman cartoon.

Don't be a dumbshit all your life.

Possibly.

>Nobody wants to watch JUST Season 4 out of a 10-season series, they want to watch the whole series to get the entire story.
Anyone with common sense will just skip a bendis "season", for instance.

>Metal, Multiversity, and Convergence sold well and were all about the multiverse.

Comics don't sell well anymore. That's the whole point.

>Bullshit.

Even today Marvel comics regularly flash back to or reference the Lee-era.

>Comics don't sell well anymore
They do moron.

>Marvel comics regularly flashback
And do it clumsily. Just look at how much compression Hickman had to do on his X-men timeline. We got O5 to 90's era happening in the span of a decade.

>They do moron.

They really don't. What passes for high sales now are a shadow of what they once were.

>We got O5 to 90's era happening in the span of a decade.

Seems appropriate.

>Seems appropriate.
So you're retarded is what you're saying?

Compared to the 50's yes, but comics are selling better than they were a decade ago.

Three years of published time working out to a year of story time is the ratio Marvel held to for a very long time. 05 to 90s spanning a decade fits in there nicely.

It makes a complete joke out of continuity. You can't have Colossus be from the USSR anymore in the Hackman timeline because his X-men incarnation now forms in the 2000's.

I bet you read manga.

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>Caring about this kind of shit.

DC keeps wanting to make their elseworlds part of the main canon but find out that elseworlds should STAY elseworlds. Then next problem is, no one gives a shit of the main canon and only cares for the elseworlds.

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>Caring about continuity
No shit.

They do retard. None of the orrery worlds are elseworlds, elseworlds are hypertime.

>No one gives a shit about the main canon and only cares for the elseworlds
A simple look at comicron shows you're wrong.

Stop being stupid.

>Just look at how much compression Hickman had to do on his X-men timeline. We got O5 to 90's era happening in the span of a decade.
The best solution is obviously not reading shit from hickman

>Caring about continuity
>No shit.

What matters is the story, not the surface detail that is period trappings.

Continuity nerd faggotry is the same kind of incomprehensible bullshit that spawned nonsense concepts like "hypertime."

I thought it was 1 year in comics for 4 years IRL

>Hypertime
>Not Based
Go back to manga zoom zoom.

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Marveltoids can't figure it out. It's why their continuity operates on bye-bye man rules. DON'T THINK IT DON'T SAY IT!

If that ever was the case it's a recent idea. 3:1 was the general rule after they dropped real time around 1965.

The Marvel continuity operates on a principle of "Don't worry about it, the story matters more," as opposed to DC's five-year cycle of sperging out about it that has ironically made their continuity incomprehensible while the continuity of the publisher who doesn't even care about it is way easier to understand.

Not really, it just slides as the continuity grows longer. I was basing it on the recap during the Clone Saga, if I recall, for 4/1.
Well, used to be. After Secret Wars 4 there was a soft reboot so they have excuses to mess it around.

They already did that in the 80s

DC can't do something like History of the Marvel Universe because their history is such a mess now. DC Legacies was the last hurrah of the DC continuity.

I agree. Only based Marvel is allowed to have humans that cuck gods out of their powers.