Which one has the strongest talk no jutsu?

Hard to say. Steven does it better but Naruto's TNJ is probably more powerful as he deals with a more grim world and situations.

Then again Naruto is basically super ninja god chosen one EX in his setting.

This answer is acceptable.

Do they both have a 100% success rate, or is it just Naruto?

Depends if you count Aquamarine and Jasper by the time the Empire Reformation happened since we don't know what they were up to or how they felt about it

Jasper is iffy since I don’t think the movie ever mentioned if Steven ever talked to her at all after she was uncorrupted. So she might still hate him but he held back by the Diamonds. Plus there’s Navy who didn’t fall for his TNJ, neither did Aquamarine. Steven’s record already isn’t 100%.

Whereas with Naruto, there are people he didn’t bother trying to talk to, but does that count against him? Because if so that includes Kakuzu, Kaguya and Black Zetsu as failures.

There were several that Steven couldn't really talk down. Aquamarine, Jasper, Eyeball, etc.

Naruto talked down a guy so hard, that he magically brought most of the people that he killed back to life.

Where's my Hidan redemption arc.

Whenever Shikamaru decides to dig him up.

That just brings the question of whether choosing not to fight an unwinnable counts against your win-loss record, and frankly I don't have a solid answer.

Fuck easily swayed characters

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Naruto. He has a better approach due to more nuanced life experience and his is actually backed by his life energy enabling him to sympathize and understand his opponent's lives and mindsets while helping them to understand his. Steven's empathy powers only work on gems, not people, and he's actually pretty sheltered, with most of his worst days ending actually pretty well.

naruto got even a new son

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Steven has easier opponents. They're mostly just sentimental people wanting to do good in desperate need of a therapy session. Naruto's opponents are a combination of broken husks of people wanting to cause as much damage as possible (which I guess Spinel kind of qualifies as), people with strong convictions to different philosophies, and a thousand egotists with martyr complexes.

Naruto actually had to defeat his opponents before he could talk to them, so that's more impressive by default.

Steven, but Naruto is a lot more bullshit. Also how the fuck did Orochimaru and Kabuto get away with everything, they're worse than every diamond put together

Kabuto is a fucking mystery, but Orochimaru is basically the closest to a realistic compromise the manga ending had. If Naruto seriously committed to bringing Orochimaru to justice tens of thousands of bystanders could die. It was hard to stomach, but the better choice was to pardon him in return for his full cooperation with the Leaf and sharing the fruits of his research. He's an unwanted ally, but that's better than having him as an enemy again.

He did things like kidnap and kill dozens of babies to create Yamato, Orochimaru is small fry compared to Naruto and Sauce at the end they really should have just killed him he realistically can not be trusted.

All in the name of progress. Leaf's special relationship with Orochimaru has helped catapulted the Land of Fire into an economic and technological position of power and his research has come in handy hundreds of time when tracking down criminal ninja.

>kill Orochimaru
Easier said than done.

they just sealed a god, i think they can do the same to Oro who got punked by Itachi a dozen times

Steven has better Talk no Jutsu, but Naruto obviously is far more powerful

lmao true, he came back like3 times (even after being sealed by Itachi's Gary Stu sword). The fucker is a pest.

Naruto can get TNJ just with his ideals alone.
Steven without his mommy is nothing and the diamonds would not listen to him.

Offtopic but this week make me hate SUfags even more

It's not about strength, since Sasuke was able to do it with barely any effort before, it's just that keeps. on. coming. back. He's a roach with constant auto-life.

Itachi just turned the tables on him; punking Orochimaru when he's inside your personal dimension psycho-sphere is one thing. But in the physical world you're never going to be able to tell exactly what and where Orochimaru is. You'll end up god-sealing a lost orphan with makeup on while the real Orochimaru was in the Village in the Clouds the hole time.

Naruto can beat the diamonds/every single enemy Steven faced and even TNJ them to be a good soul because he understand more than anyone.

Steven is a legit spoiled child and only works in his universe. If you put him in Nardo he gets killed by Pain.

Yea Forums always has comfy naruto threads for some reason

>there are people he didn’t bother trying to talk to
>Kakuzu
Too far gone. No point in talking to someone completely unhinged. Even swapping places with Hidan Naruto would've known it was better to put him down.
>Black Zetsu
Moms puppet. Can't talk to a literal tool.
>b-but Haku
That was an ironic tool. A very gay one.
>Kaguya
I shouldn't even have to explain this one. What said holds a bit of truth in that TNJ exist as Kishimoto's back door when he's backed himself into a wall but also TNJ only works on those that can actually be saved/reasoned with. Like I said with Kakuzu for example, there's no point in using TNJ on him. He has, what, 5 hearts and only cares about money? There's no getting through to someone like that.

>implying he wouldn't be able to change Kaguya's mind like with White Diamond

Well now's the time. Movie just came out and the villain is tied with Peridot for best gem.

It was confirmed he died due to a lack nourishment.

He wasn't easily swayed though.

Roachy got everything he ever wanted. He doesn't have to do evil things anymore because he's immortal now and has all the time in the world to do things the "right" way. Plus he's the most accomplished magician/scientist in the world with the greatest and most diverse array of materials. Putting him on probation was a thousand times more practical than trying to kill him; he even sent his ubermensch designer baby to live in the Leaf and support Boruto.

I wasn’t saying Naruto was bad for not trying to TNJ those individuals.

I honestly agree with you in that it wouldn’t have worked at all, I just was wondering if they counted against his total success rate for TNJ.

Naruto won by doing nothing. His answer to how to achieve world peace was "I don't know how but I'll do it because I really really believe I can do it" and Pain simply decided to trust him and kill himself even after he had killed his own master.

I love how half of that fight was the villain trying to use TnJ on him (which he had the luxury of, being the strongest fucking Nen guy ever)

I'd say it's fair to say that Naruto didn't so much TNJ Pain. It was more that he convinced Pain that he was someone worth entrusting his legacy and mission into by proving his conviction.

Shut the fuck up you filthy ant.

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I fail to see how that's more impressive than Steven's own accomplishments. Like I'll give Naruto credit for Gaara, he's earned that, but Pain, Obito (who literally killed Naruto's parents) and Sasuke all feel like stretches that Naruto accomplished by being a shounen protagonist and thus having infinite determination.

Watch your mouth, Obito was the coolest guy.

Still the best.

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By contrast, what has Steven earned? De-escalating the Spinel situation was fine, but the Diamonds still don't GET anything Steven's tried to explain to them; they're just doing it all because he's family. And Lapis and Peridot pretty much just came around on their own by hanging out enough.

You're just lucky he didn't properly and fully go into despair Gon's power level.
I still want a what-if OVA where Meruem is the one who killed Kite and Gon comes after him. It would be legendary.

According to Pitou they were around the same power but I would put my money on Meruem, who gained considerable battle wisdom by playing board games with an autist

And yet Steven barely did anything against Spinel too, SHE came to the realization she was wrong herself and Steven couldn't even prevent her from injecting the planet anyway!

Obito and Sasuke's at least were built up over time and weren't as much of a sudden 180 as Pain's was

>they're just doing it all because he's family
Well of course. Despite how empathetic and compassionate Steven is, a galactic conqueror isn't just going to listen to some singing gremlin who shows up out of nowhere and tells you to be nicer

Boy, you better not think about what Connie did in Space Camp then.

On another note, this is a good video as to why Naruto is just better at TnJ.
youtube.com/watch?v=gH3Sh3hRV-c

I agree with you like most but the problem is that we're basing the fight on the power Gon achieved to defeat Pitou. We're not accounting for the hypothetical of what Gon would trade to defeat Meruem. This is akin to the big what if from Dragon Ball, what if Frieza kill Gohan on Namek. Would Goku go SSJ or would he skip straight past 3 to God.

>Sasuke
>a stretch
I'll give Obito, and just Obito but that wasn't a complete stretch.

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yeah but in the exchange we did see, Gon became the equivalent of barely-living beef jerky after that fight, I'm not sure what else he could have traded beforehand

>the girl that was utterly obsessed with him cheating
Can't get more delusional then this

Name an enemy, minor or major that steven completely destroyed, even if they were just villains of the week. As in, he actually beat them with physical force and killed them.

To my recollection, steven has never done this. Even in season 1 when there were monsters of the week, they didn't destroy them. Sailor moon has actually destroyed/outright killed plenty monsters and enemies.

>I'm not sure what else he could have traded beforehand
His light.
If you read enough shonen you'll know exactly what I'm getting at.

Naruto.

Reminder he got THIS GUY to say congratulations on his wedding to him

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Kaguya is immune to TnJ.

The true master was always Greg.

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Who dat

Garnet has a better record talking people down to their knees. From the mailing guy to pretty much convincing jasper that fusion was actually great. She also gave some thought to spinel, and managed to fix her own shit with pearl after the whole sardonyx deal.
She gave peridot the more to think about, welcomed bismuth with less biggy, and so far has been the only one that can advice steven when no one else can.

Garnet is without doubts Naruto's TNJ level, steven is just a boy dealing with family shit.

You're right, but still, steven may not have destroyed anyone but he wasn't always able to get through to everyone either.

Like leaving the rubies doomed to float in space. Or poofing bismuth and leaving her in a bubble again for a long time, until much later. He also couldn't get through to Jasper, leading to her corruption. Didnt get through to Aquamarine either. Spinel came to the realization she was in the wrong pretty much on her own after getting all her anger out on Steven and already injecting the earth.

Sailor Moon might have destroyed most her enemies but was still able to get through to Galaxia, one of their most threatening villains, who not only destroyed many worlds but killed every other sailor warrior in the universe, that includes all of sailor moons own friends and boyfriend. Yet she was still able to get through to her, because of her purity and love.

And lets be real, Steven only got through to the diamonds because he is also a diamond and the son of pink. Would they have listened to him otherwise?

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Kawaki

I don't think he's made an appearance in the anime though

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Didn't naruto punch people nearly to death at least? You're more convincing when you choose when someone lives or dies.

Which might be a detriment. Usually Naruto has to WIN his fights for his TnJ to work. Steven doesn't.

didn't a ruby outsmart Steven and his pals by playing along with his talk no jutsu until she got what she wanted?

You have a point, by the time of the final fight Sasuke was mostly just being a contrarian for the sake of it, and he never actually got around to really accomplishing anything all that evil.

Like sure Naruto was only really friends with Sasuke for like a month and Sasuke was really edgy early-to-mid Shippuden, but that's still a stronger foundation than what Steven had with White Diamond.

I guess when you get down to it, Steven's Talk no Jutsu isn't as big of a stretch as people like to complain that it is.

Does anyone remember what the threads were like when Naruto achieved his biggest victories in TnJ?

He’s got the power, he just doesn’t use it.

The Kame Hame Ha No Jutsu

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Yeah and it was the slutty bimbo Ruby who did it too.

>Esteban Galaxias
Patada Pacifista No Jutsu Sisepuede

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Sakurafags are naturally retarded. Thats why SasuSaku is canon

>He wasn't easily swayed though.
That's the point, he wouldn't entertain a would-be talker, and it won him the fight against a far stronger opponent. He's an example of a determined character, as opposed to being a jobbing puppet to build up someone else's persuasion skills.

It's questionable if Kaguya mind was even all there at that point of her fight. She seemed like she was out of it mentally, which is why Naruto didn't bother talking her down.

Well jeez, if all else fails you hit 'em with the Murdercock.

The protagonist from Fallout 1.

I don’t think it’s a detriment because Naruto’s enemies often go straight for the kill, so he HAS to fight or risk himself and his friends dying as a result of trying not to fight. Steven’s enemies are weaker and for the most part didn’t actually want to kill him.

If you put them in each other’s place, Steven would quickly wise up once people around him start dying before his eyes.

fuck you I was about to post this exact topic

bump

>The protagonist from Fallout 1.
that's not the protagonist from Numenera.

I feel like that was partially in jest as he's a wanted criminal.

Part one supposedly lasted long enough for everyone to have had a birthday (so over one year). They weren't the friendliest to start, but they always considered each other rivals to compete against since the beginning, so Sasuke actually had a lot of respect for Naruto. There was even a flashback at the VotE redux that had them first meeting at seven years old and how they spent the entire decade since trying to prove something to the other.

Yeah the anime retconned in a bunch of scenes giving Naruto and Sasuke a shared childhood rivalry, but that's because they realized how flimsy their bond was.