I hate the Killing Joke, Joker wasn't supposed to have a definitive origin...

>get told this is one of the best Batman comics of all time
>see it at a store for like 10 bucks
>pick it up
>read the whole thing right there
>laugh out loud
>put that shit back and save myself 10 bucks
The comic was pretty trash, made even more so by how nothing matters in it, who cares that Babs got shot and Jim was driven nearly insane? It’s all fine now and never ever brought up again. Joker is a very awful overrated character who honestly brings Batman down and makes his comics less enjoyable

Just because people are dumb isn't a reason to rewrite a comic.

in my headcanon Batman knows exactly who Joker was (detective skills, plus having access to every database and whatever) but it doesn't matter because Bruce understands that person is gone. whatever happened to them, the insanity turned them into Joker and there's no way to reason with him in a "remember you who you were" manner. any information of his past is useless for all practical purposes.

so kinda like how Joker knows it's Bruce Wayne under the mask, but he doesn't give a damn about Bruce, it's Batman he's after

this isn't a goddamn library, get the fuck out of my shop.

>now people treat it as canon
Therein lies the problem user. It isn’t anyone involved with Killing Joke, it is the brainlets that read it. Joker himself even says in it that he prefers to keep things multiple choice.

The Killing Joke is great.

>Joker wasn't supposed to have a definitive origin, Alan Moore states this late in the comic but now people treat it as canon
Heath Ledger's Joker changed a lot of minds about that
The fact he never tells the same story twice was on point
It's THAT which should have been incorporated into the comics instead of the edginess, although I liked this particular scene and implication even though he's probably just lying like he did about being immortal

Oos, forgot my image

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>bad/mediocre stories often breed good stories
Do they? Can you give some examples, please?

welp. i guess i should be glad i checked out not long after the nu-52 started

This and it was the best thing to ever happen to Barbra's character until New 52 fixed her legs

Yeah. OracleBabs > Babsgirl

It wasn’t a comic shop, bub, a comic shop would hike that price up for that comic to 20 bucks, 15 at the minimum. Naw son this was a Wal Mart so of course no one gave a shit.
I will say that after reading that comic, I went online to find the original ink work done and found it to be far better. That’s also kind of sad tho, when the best thing about a comic is the choices the inker made.

The original's gaudy coloring gives it a certain appeal. Or at least I prefer something looking gaudy over the PALE TONES, SILVER EVERYWHERE look of nearly every fucking DC recolored title. Even Flex Mentallo did away with colors and replaced them with this crappy sterile look.

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The Joker is exactly the reason why we shouldn't relinquish capital punishment AKA the death penalty/sentence for the laymen here.
It just goes without saying that some people are beyond second chances and rehabilitation. Sometimes you just got to put a rabid dog out of its misery for the sake of everyone else (Old Yeller reference for the millennials).
There's no amount of moral code that can hold me back from killing a monster. I'm more shocked why not a single officer in Gotham decided to just pull out a gun while he's still in cuffs/a stray jacket and just shoot him right then and there.
I honestly remember looking back at Batman's famous reason in the Red Hood movie, and I found myself sympathising more with Jason in the end [(until he decided to shoot Batman instead of the Joker).]
I honestly think Batman's biggest secret, is that he wants the Joker to live because they can't live without each other. But that's my opinion.
youtube.com/watch?v=PfH3bDPNGHw

>this was a Wal Mart so of course no one gave a shit.
Ironically, Most general item stores were the ones that had problems with me reading books, Comic shops and bookstores literally had chairs and Cafes for me to read them inside

>Moore's biggest mistake, I think, was tying Batman to Joker's origin.
Why? Wasn't Batman always tied to it since the original Red Hood story?

The Joker's had multiple origins. In the original movie and the animated series, he was gangster Jack Napier who was thrown into a vat of chemicals by Batman. (And in the original movie, was the guy responsible for Thomas and Martha's death instead of Joe Chill for some reason.) In the new movie, he's failed comedian Arthur Fleck who knew Bruce as a kid. In The Killing Joke, he's a failed comedian who's wife died while pregnant and was thrown into a vat of chemicals by Batman while assuming the role of the Red Hood as part of a mission some gangsters gave him so he could earn some money to get his family to a better home. Also, I think he had an origin in one of the early comics where he was also the Red Hood.

Didn't Rebirth show there were three different Jokers anyways?

It's also the biggest reason why the comic industry should really fucking STOP trying to push this retarded bullshit as normal and good and like its anything but deeply retarded and utterly fucking stupid bubble gum fare.
And it should defnitely not be for children.

Why?
That piece of shit joker and monster like him are not only left alive and virtually unpunished but they make excuses for him and even save his life and try to make him into a good guy in certain situations.

There is....quite honestly no way I can describe how much psychological damage that is doing to a young audience.

I would rather they read horror stories about evil people being butchered in ironic and terrible ways in tales to terrify and shit like that.

Not this god awful bullshit that the comic industry has become.

I can't wait till the entire fucking comic industry capsizes.

I really hate Zero Year for multiple reasons, one of them being that it gave Joker a 100% percent confirmed origin story for the new 52 and Rebirth continuity. Even though in post crisis Red Hood was tied to his origin, you could play around with his characterization and backstory before Ace Chemicals.
Zero Year erased that ambiguity.

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So are people worried this joker movie is going to become lonely white dudes gangster rap moment?

>Heath Ledger's Joker changed a lot of minds about that
>The fact he never tells the same story twice was on point
>It's THAT which should have been incorporated into the comics
It's from the comics. Years before Moore too.

>Moore's biggest mistake, I think, was tying Batman to Joker's origin.

He was doing that because he didn't want to contradict what was already established. Didn't you read comics before Moore?

blather.net/projects/alan-moore-interview/killing-joke-brought-light/

>Barry Kavanagh: And the Joker’s origin? Had he had one before that?

>Alan Moore: He’d got a kind of muddy kind of origin. They’d said that he’d been the leader of a criminal gang called the Red Hood Mob and that while trying to escape from Batman he’d swum across this river of chemicals.

>Kavanaugh: And that was about it?

>Moore: That was about it and this was from a story from, like, the late ’50s or something and so I thought “Okay, I won’t contradict that,” because I kind of believe in working by the rules of the material as it already exists but I can put a lot of spin on that.

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Capullo's artwork is kinda hideous, I don't like it

>a lab worker
explains how he's so good with toxins and what not

Bad Golden age Batman comics inspired Denny O'Neil to write good bronze age Batman.
Bad silver age comics inspired most of Alan Moore's career (as well as good ones tbf)

I never understood this because apparently both Bolland and Quitely are more thank ok with those.
Flex in particular just dies, I have the tpb but whenever I re-read it I have to download the original colloring.

Doesn't Joker say near the end of things that he remembers his past a different way every time? Couldn't the flashback we see just be the way that he's remembering things at that moment?

The original coloring is trying to evoke the color of carnival lights, I guess, while the newer version is just normal colors. Which makes everything feel less vibrant.

He wasn't Jack Napier in BTAS. While one of the doctors calls him by that name in Dreams in Darkness, later episodes reveal that they have no idea who he really is aside from the fact that he used to be a mob hitman for Sal Valestra. Presumably Jack Napier was just an alias he used in his line of work.

Didn't B:TAS Joker use another alias in the episode where he was brainwashing the judges who booed him off a comedy competiton?

Jack White. He also used Joe Kerr and Dr. Rekoj.

Are you sure? Isn't it hinted he could be any of the red hooded mooks?

And thus, once again I can proudly declare
Fpbp

No, the Red Hood leader watches Batman fighting his goons and Capullo draws his eyes like how he draws Jokers. And the leader falls into the vat, smiling and laughing while Batman tries to save him.

Edgy shit in comics predate Watchmen, you johnstard.

You probably thought you were going to come off as clever, but instead you came off as a plebeian.

It was an obvious example. Of course edgy predates it. But it was a watershed moment.

I love how people like you have to point this shit out thinking it makes you clever ignoring the fact that while there were edgy comics before, Watchman has an undisputed influence on comics and poo culture as a whole.

Because alot of times people don't understand what made a good story so take a minor element and go hog wild. Meanwhile bad stories are just like a more drawn out form of brainstorming.

There are a lot of delusional Moorefags who hate to hear that much like Biggie ruined rap by being too good and setting a bad example for lesser artists, Moore and Gibbons inspired a generation of absolute hacks to make everything "realistic".

I suppose so, I just don’t see why this comic is held in such high regard, it’s just boring and easily forgettable. Really what I was trying to convey was my disappointment with the comic and the people who recommended it

It was an examination of why Joker is the way he is, which hadn't been done in comics before. Moore regrets the time he wasted psychoanalyzing a comic book character.

Joker had a definitive origin pre TKJ

I fucking hate the red hood gang in rebirth so much

The whole point is that one guy wears the full red hood so they can switch around who it is all the time and have him be the fall guy. In rebirth, the leader wears this stupid ass huge red hood that isn't even over his face, and everybody else also wears red hoods. It's dumb.

Plus the leader doesn't even wear the red hood all the way down. In the Red Hood's ORIGINAL APPEARANCE seen here He even says the shape of your chin can identify you! And yet Rebirth Red Hood just has his whole ass chin hanging out!

Because bro, if we don't show his chin how will you see that hes smiling all the time! Cause hes the Joker, baby!

>Bad stories inspire people to improve and do better.
That's right. I'm literally using TLOK as a base to not make the same mistakes in a second story of a novel

>109817704
So, basically, the first four panels are the other guys who played The Red Hood, and from then on it's the guy from The Killing Joke?

I dunno... When The Joker says, "So I became The Red Hood," he doesn't it make it sound like that whole thing about, "A couple guys, and a mask," was the implication. I mean, it could still work with this technically, but, still...

True. BTW, forgot to mention yet another person was The Joker in the TV show Gotham.

The joker isnt a magic entity. Hes human. He can have a detailed beginning.