Does Superman need to evolve, Yea Forums?

Turning superman into something edgy and modern misses the point of superman.

Superman may as well personify, to a degree larger than Captain America, the ideal vision everyone has for America, this place where everyone is truly equal no matter who they are, the everyman has a voice, this global figure that's genuinely trying to do right by its neighbors and make the world a better place for everyone in it. He's the dream that can never be.

I'm all for modern cynicism, it's just not for supes.

theres evolution and growth based on an established character and then theres wild swings in characterizations and rampant "this is my take" from creators

theres a basic template for superman and within that template theres room for changing how he gets there w but w him still being superman the ideal combo of power/virtue. thats the role he occupies in the dc universe. responsible, compassionate, dedicated power. you can do whatever you want outside of that, but fuck w that and its and elseworlds superman.

electric superman wasnt really despised bc he was still responsible, compassionate and dedicated w overwhelming power.

santa superman was some bullshit bc he wasnt compassionate or responsible, depsite being powerful(relatively) and willful like superman

Omniprime - Herald of Chtulu

Dumb bitch outed herself as a non-reader of comics. One glance at any silver age superman book proves it. You can't be a purist of something that flaunts how little it cares for canon rules. It's an oxymoron.

Superman still evolved in a way. 1930's Superman is different from 1960's Superman who was different from 1970's Superman who was different from Byrne era Superman. At the core is still a person who tries to do what's right and save people.

That said Palmiotti's post is more appropriately directed toward Bronze Age Spider-Man purists that think OMD/BND is a welcome return for the character than it is toward Silver Age Superman purists.

>Bronze Age Spider-Man purists
What?

>literally who

It’s long past time to not give a fuck.

Maybe I should've said 70's Spider-Man purists?

I liked Electric Blue Superman. The power set could be pretty OP if you know how.

If you're talking about a college era Peter then yes, I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that they want Peter to return to the Ditko/Lee characterization.

It's like asking if Bugs Bunny should evolve. You can tell tons of stories without character development. The comics industry is proof. Nobody changes after their big arcs and events.

black tranny

>Silver Age purists
Do those exist? Superman has sure evolved a lot from that age and most people prefer that.

Thing is... "the American way" meaning is "changing", and is different from person to person.
The whole meaning of what is right is completely subjective.
Some people unironically think that is perfectly ok to not kill people and that every life is important while other genuinely think that committing mass murder is the right way to go.

You know, the folks kept getting Pete wrong during his high school and college days, like they have him be the typical picked on guy but back in the day, the guy usually bants with Flash.

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No

I don't think they know what Silver Age Supes was like or don't really know how the "ages" are split up
Because other than being fucking hilarious and just not giving a shit, silver age Superman and a lot of silver age stuff aged like garbage

It was pretty shocking to see that he wasn't the weak little shit that everyone makes him out to be.
Being a hothead is a pretty big part of his character in the 60's and 70's.

this, they're probably thinking bronze age or, even more likely, just Byrne era Supes, but for some reason bronze age isn't mentioned as much as the silver age or golden age

literally nobody asks for silver age superman beyond laughing at that insane garbage because superman was shit in the silver age with flash (and lots of marvel titles like FF) being better

But Bugs Bunny "changed" over time as well. Same with Peanuts and Simpsons and Archie. They adhered to a status quo, but they still changed in certain ways. Comic superheroes are different in the sense that the selling point is making the audience think things changes happen more obviously than cartoon characters.

>literally nobody asks for silver age superman beyond laughing at that insane garbage because superman was shit in the silver age with flash (and lots of marvel titles like FF) being better

Absolutely wrong

except i'm right cause you're a nobody

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No. Superman is a character that works best when given a flat arc, meaning that he doubts his morals at some points, but doesn't really change. He instead changes everything and everyone around him for the better.

You mean you're a nobody.

I've seen people on places (ie Comics Journal's boards) that I wouldn't expect to praise capes praise Silver Age Superman, this was back when DC was reprinting it in their Showcase TPB line. So trying to claim no one likes Silver Age Superman is peak zoomer.

American way today means corruption, ignoring science and facts and embracing ignorance and muh feelings.

He should just be blue, drop all the red and the cape. And then work up the energy powers too. Maybe upgrade the chest symbol, like ass some kind of lightning-ish look to it.

That would make Superman perfect!

>Some people unironically think that is perfectly ok to not kill people and that every life is important
You say that like it's a bad thing

Did you forget about all the "Peter confronts Flash after getting powers" scene from each Spider-Man reboot?

I don't think he was, I think he was just taking two completely opposite opinions on killing and saying how some people would believe both of them.

Into a futuristic superteam of heroes inspired by Superman!

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a strong indepdent black women fighting for social justice and lgbtqwe7$au rights

yikes dont get so triggered user

Superer man

>while other[s] genuinely think that committing mass murder is the right way to go.
Just call them by their true name, son

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Think you chose the wrong image there, champ.

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>muh silver age straw man
I bet she's a Snyderfag

...

but /pol/ told me to come here...

Sure, but a cynical take on Superman misses the point. He's a good guy that just wants to do good things, and he has the ability to do it. It's a fuck you to any "power corrupts" and "all people are inherently evil" shit that I'm sure she's talking about.

>>>lgbt?

Morrison and Moore wrote the definitive Superman runs based on silver age Superman. Meanwhile, Tomasi and Bendis are the cornerstone for modern Superman stories.

Venusaur

>Thing is... "the American way" meaning is "changing", and is different from person to person.
T>2he whole meaning of what is right is completely subjective.
I forgot Yea Forums was home to such intellectual titans

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>need
Evert=ything "alive" in every sense of the word evolves, that's a part of being alive. Planets, plants, animals all evolve.

Do they "need" to?

Nope.

Superman's already changed plenty enough through the years. It's the general audience's stilted view of his character that refuses to change.

When was the first time Flash was actually shown as physically violent towards him instead of just a jerk?

Obviously Superman needs to be put into a movie with lots of quips. That’s how we know he’s evolved.

Superman 2

honestly the only evolution that makes sense is him inspiring a team, some sort of futuristic heroes, probbly teens, who look up to him as the greatest hero and have helped to shape society into a utopia in his image. some sort of....legion...of superheroes...

>...Unless they're a dirty yellow monkey. Then it's cool.

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Largely agree but you don’t want to go as far as the pre-crisis team where they don’t mention any other superhero which makes it that Superman was the only hero that impacted anything and contributed to the future.

also the idea of the superfamily is nice, but it's fucked over by aged up jon.

Clark, kara, kon, jon, krypto, and then the extended family of steel, steel 2, kenan, powergirl, superpowered lana lang if shes still kicking around, superlex if he werent evil again, livewire if she werent evil again and were still wearing his electric suit etc etc etc

The best way to show superman's evolution is to show how he influences, impacts, and inspires those around him to become better - like with steel, lex, livewire, and kenan specifically.

i agree, i think it's foolish that there wouldnt be some kind of batman inspired hero on the legion of superheroes. frankly it should only be the big three legionaires that are HEAVILY superman inspired, as i think those three should be the ones who go back in time to get him, but thats me

Deeeep into the 70s.

The people up top keep pushing for a Peter Parker who never existed and it's infuriating, because it wipes clean everything that ever made him interesting.

Do Silver Age Superman purists exist?

Kinda-sorta.
The most common solution people propose for Superman being shit these days is a return to the Silver Age roots. Some people think this should be more direct than others, so you could call them the "purists."

let him be a dad.

lmao
>change for the sake of change is good, just because there wasn't anything wrong with silver age superman doesn't mean it should stay the same
I'm going to tear down a hospital and build a shittier one on top of it because change is good and necessary

*angry Scottish noises*

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No.

Yes. He had. Then Bendis.

What's messed up about aging up Jon is that it's exactly like aging up Chris. Where IS Chris now btw? Retconned?

personally i just think it takes away the opportunity for so many stories that are literally perfect for superman: how do you be a dad, how do you do these things that so many people have to do, just shown through a grander scale.

It also eliminates brotherly stories between kon and jon

Superduperman

they can't even write that "boring" version trying to change it is just an excuse to fail once against but "trying to do something new" instead.

You know what's ironic? My favourite version of Batman is Bruce when he's NOT Batman. (ie the BAtman Beyond iteration of the character)

Why not have Superman be that? A mentor figure to bounce off someone?

Silver Age Superman gave us Superdickery.

>go to twitter
>rigormorton proudly identifies as a horror nerd
>calls out static characters

Yeah cuz Jason, Freddy, Micheal & Godzilla have had deep character development during their runs.

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Superman became a father, that's a pretty big evolution for a character.

Edgelord

I agree, and i was finally getting back into Superman again because of that dynamic just when Bendis showed up, and knew he would axe that quick.

People have been thinking of Superman as a father for years now.

I want superman red and blue back. I could use a big red right now as well.

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pikachu

He did until they unmade Super-Family. Fuck Bendis

...

Literally who cunt twat(ter) thread #1,978.

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Pretty much this. Superman is the asperation that every person should be kind to one another, helpful in times of need, confident in their own abilities, and to be welcoming of those who are different. These common virtues are easily obtainable by anyone who would only desire to be as such.

>twitter of a literally who

why is he doing the blacked pose to the asian kid

most of the Superman stories everyone wanks over are silver age inspired. Moore even had Curt Swan (beautifully) draw his superstories.

From all trends so far, into batman.

And then one of that fat faggot Palmiotti's friends ruined it all. Yet I'm sure the fat faggot thinks Bendis' shit is a revelation.

More like Christopher Reeve Purists. The idea being that Superman should only be like the Christopher Reeves movies (and mostly only the first one). Basically just remaking the Superman movie again and again and again with no change. Because change is bad.

/thread

Godzilla became a hero and a defender of the Earth

>which of my descendants are you?
>ha

>of the Earth
of america, you mean

You don't /thread your own post.

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Superman should just be a cool dad character. A little weary, a little stressed and overtaxed sometimes but ultimately a gentle man trying his best.
At the very edgiest, I feel Superman should feel overburdened by responsibilities and unable to care for himself. Edgy changes never stick.

Dont ask that

I miss old Pete. Nu-Pete is a faggot with no balls.

But this was before his powers. That's the point.

Slott is gone and Zdarsky did a pretty good job on Spectacular.

Ditko/Lee Spider-Man is highly regarded but yeah, I've never seen people say that they want him to go back to that characterization.

Oh, I didn't know. I've never actually read Amazing Fantasy #15.
Either way though, the point I meant to make is the same, films have to tell a condensed version of the story, so making Peter more of a wimp beforehand makes the transformation more dramatic.
Also, I think Peter talking back and being more assertive might have been retconned itself, in one of those "Flash is in the hospital and Peter wants him to apologize for being a bully" episodes or something.

Was meant for

>I've never actually read Amazing Fantasy #15.
Go fucking read it.

no
Why would I do that?

I said go read it.

NO

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You'll read it out of your own free will or I'll make you.

Characters shouldn't be made to persist for as long as comic book characters have been, let them die and come up with new stories

Superman digivolves to ..

It's true for characters in general but long term comics are fucking weird. I think it's better to think of big characters in comics more like myths. You got some general themes for the character to have in their story. Character doesn't so much evolve as the story evolves around the characters main themes. Like you could right a poem about Zeus today as easy as back then but you wanna keep the themes he's got going like infidelity and power or it won't feel like a Zeus story.

You can write any Superman comic but he's gotta stand for truth and justice and be a wholesome guy or it won't be a Superman story.

Not necessarily. Too many people treat character development as the end all and be all of story telling. But sometimes it's okay to just have an interesting and fully realized character interact with the world around them.

Yep.

He's wrong, that wasn't before he got his powers. It was when he already got powers but was still wearing the glasses.

Kill yourself faggot

Yeah, it's not like every attempt to "evolve" Superman since Mort Weisinger has been a cancerous gimmicky failure or anything.