How does it feel to be deconstructed?!

This, really. Nothing like the pure boy scout going berserk on a bunch of twats.

Because it was a badly written strawman, and retards fall for it like it is some nuanced takedown of Image comics.

Dark Knight Returns pt1 and 2 where the last real good ones

You're chatting bullshit, mister

Sounds about right

Nah, it is "We live in a society" tier story.

But we live in a society

Based
Cringe

Too bad it basically proves their "might makes right" point.

>Based
>Cringe

Pwned!

Cringe

It proves that "might makes right" isn't an end, it's a means to an end, and that end is a reality nobody actually wants to live in.
A kinder, more decent world is better for everyone.
The American dream Superman talks about? That isn't in the future, that's the muddy, confused present, of narcissists fighting over philosophy with ridiculous and awesome power.
Except eventually you have to wake up from the dream, and the question the story asks of you is this: Do you want to wake up to Manchester Black's world, or Superman's?

It literally doesn't as Superman still has weaknesses that could easily be exploited if everyone deemed him a threat.

All your base are belong to us!

n00b!

I am error!

We literally live in a society.

cringe

the term is Gary stu when is a male ,dumbasses.

you're the man now, dawg, lookit me, I'm rickrolling while doing the Hampster Dance! LOLcats epic fail!

cringe

That's all fine and well but the implication is that it's only possible with what is basically the cape equivalent a benevolent dictator.

That's completely besides the point. Supes beat them so he gets to say how shit goes. "Might makes right" means the mightier decides, not that he doesn't have weaknesses.

Superman wouldn't want us to argue like this

It does the opposite as it shows that might means right only works if you're the strongest.

A flat story arc.
The main character is right, but the world around him is wrong. Through the movie, everyone doesn't like superman's no kill policy until he shows what would happen when he puts everyone at the mercy of throwing his policy out the window.

What makes these arcs go over your head is that a flat arc is damn near leaning on the fourth wall.

>Hooked on a meme
Cringe.

>"Might makes right" means the mightier decides, not that he doesn't have weaknesses.
Good thing the good guy has the might than.

He is literally a better man than we.

Attached: superman.jpg (354x626, 28K)

Clark's small town old fashioned upbringing basically saved the planet.

Like any would be assassin couldn't get the drop on black

How much does it cost to hire deadshot anyway?

Go blacks way, and it's pure chaos. Anyone can kill anyone.

Go supes way, and you gain some iota of peace.

>kryptonian alien
>man

Fundamentally Superman is not a real person and thus no one man has the might to conquer and rule all of the world we currently reside in. Just a handful of politicians and news media outlets with corporations in their pockets.

If a villians feels like they are going to be killed they will fight that much harder, maybe endanger civilians more.
There are some real heavy hitters that could take care of a rogue cape.

Steven should have redeemed Manchester Black

I'm sorry, legally adopted immigrant.

Attached: clark-kent.jpg (600x325, 148K)

But that's what might makess right means, retard.

Which defeats the point.

>Which defeats the point.
How so? Black was a threat and was defeated.

Get back to stealing cakes, Lex.

It's mostly superdaddyfags.

>superdaddyfags
I mean, I'm sure if you had a good father figure in your life you might feel the same way.

Tch
not like i needed more than 40 anyway.

People with good father figures don't imagine superman hugging them and telling them everything is fine.

It was a shitty comic and a bad movie.

And yet you keep eating them, judging how every future Lex looks like Kingpin decided to stop exercising.

Superman proved one thing and one thing only. Might makes right. I can even bet that Superman would lock up a civilian if they accidentally killed a supervillain for trying to kill their family.

No one in this thread imagines Superman hugging them and telling them everything is fine. Superman is someone you aspire to be, and in turn, you aspire those around you to be better. It is really not that hard of a concept. You have to literally be a mentally stunted edgelord to not understand.

Naw, that is not in his character.

It resonated a lot with how burgers see American foreign policies. The whole concept of the comic is pretty bad and was already unintentionally explored in a better way by Morrison's JLA

I imagine Superman hugging me and telling me that everything is fine

>Superman is someone you aspire to be
No user, superman is a comic character that is pure entretainment. You are so broken you read what In-universe people should feel as something real. I don't recommend you to "aspire to be" a capeshit character", see professional help, you clearly can't difference fiction from reality to the point you want your super daddy to show he is the stronkest by beating those british meanies.

Kino

This. You need a high IQ to understand Superman.

I differently hit a nerve.

But it is. His reason would be that he is just following the law.

At least double digits it seems. Even a 5yo can see why Superman is a good person. Not because he punches baddies.

Superman doesn't lock up people, he leaves it to the police and justice system.
That was the fucking point, you retard. If might makes right, then Superman could and SHOULD just take over the world, but he doesn't because that's a nonsensical ideology.

This. Says a lot about our society when people can't identify with an objectively good man.

Superman would most likely ask what happened and just take the body to the authorities and take the blame. Knowing how super-villains can be, the idea that a citizen killed him in self-defense seems legit.

>he doesn't want a superhug
Shit taste.

This is Superman in a "might makes right" scenario. None of you faggots arguing against Supes read the most basic mainstream stuff. Police are not going to take down Black and his cronies. That is what Super HEROES are for.

Attached: Red Son.jpg (983x1493, 153K)

Because that isn't what he believes in. His words say something, but his actions show something different. He's a government dog who holds the government above the people. His might makes this right in his eyes.

>Superman doesn't lock up people
Are you retarded? He has his own private prison.
>then Superman could and SHOULD just take over the world
And that's why superman was wrong in the story, he won a fight and proved Black was right.

see

I don't need superhugs user, I give them.

Killing an armed and dangerous person in self defense is entirely legal.

What you're saying makes no sense.
You're implying that Superman is not allowed to have any morals because everyone will just agree with him out of fear.

Edgelords ye begone!

Your kind does not belong here.

Attached: All-Star.jpg (600x922, 75K)

>This is Superman in a "might makes right" scenario
No, that is a Superman that helps to avoid the late economic stagnation of the soviet states, making communism not only more attractive but also more viable, at the same time making Americans afraid of sabotaging soviet allies or putting puppet dictatorships. Superman in Red Sun is far from "might makes right".

Since when did Superman stop being a character and start being a mouthpiece for the writers?

Attached: Adventures of Superman (2013-) 041-012.jpg (1600x1230, 441K)

It only exposes the user's world view. He might be a scared little puppy in real life and does not have a moral compass and is probably narcissistic.

Morrison's superman and his interpretation of the character is really different than this, you are just as manchild that only sees superman being put on narrative created positive light, and can't see anything beyond that.

I'm saying that he is a hypocrite that would take the side of the government rather than the people. He can and do have his morals but it is so skewed towards a broken justice system that he would let a mass murderer free again and again without even questioning if the system works.

Superman literally has the world under his thumb as an all-mighty father figure. He literally runs the world out of fear to keep order. His might makes right.

Attached: 567.jpg (599x914, 122K)

The 40's, when it was used for pro-war propaganda, then pro-establishment narratives during cold war, that lasted a up until Byrne rescued him and turned him into a person, sadly in the early 2000's Superman's role as a mouthpiece of nostalgiafags and not muh faggots lost most of the character he had, the irony is that Superman became just a shallow husk.

Silver age Superman was best Superman. Byrne is an obssessive fanboy who was obssessed with the TV show and his Spider-Man fan fic.

>only sees superman being put on narrative created positive light
You make it sound like a bad thing. Cape comics besides selling paper and entertain can have positive messages. I'm not delusional enough to think otherwise. Isn't there anything else you should be reading is this character does not suit your superior capeshit intellect?

But the people didn't actually want a "Might is Right" Superman. The world caught a glimpse of it and everyone collectively shat their pants.
Superman was always on the side of the people, they just didn't appreciate it.

This

Batman Ninja was pretty awesome. But I’ll agree that this is is the last non-Batman related movie WB put effort into.

That is some revisionism created by Johnstards.

>he didn't like the Batman 66 movie that had William Shatner as a surprisingly great TwoFace
Bitch

What do you mean they don't want? Manchester Black was loved. The author was the one that made him evil when he doesn't need to be evil. The only reason they were afraid of Superman is because he beat the shit out of Black and saw the person who was standing up for them getting beaten up. Superman was never for the people. If he was he wouldn't let mass muderer free again and again which he did. Which you didn't address. You know. The part where Superman supports a broken justice system even when he knew it didn't work and is only helping the upperclass of society getting richer.

And what do you want him to do? Take over the world and impose his will to everyone?

If Superman himself who can break out of handcuffs does not follow the same laws the same as regular citizens. How can he expect everyone else to do the same by not setting the example? The people need to fix those laws, and not just because Superman himself does not agree with them. Then you would have a Red Son tyrant scenario doing what HE thinks is best and not the whole of society.

Its not supermans job to take the law into his own hands and decide who has to die. People should vote in politicians willing to execute super criminals.

>standing up for them

Black doesn't give a shit about the people, he's a murderer lying to morons with buzzwords.

>muh 1%!

If the justice system is so bad, why don't the people demand a reform?
Why does Superman have to everything?
Are you one of those faggots that actually believes in benevolent dictatorships?

>Manchester Black was loved
yeah, behind a tv screen, the second they saw with their own eyes and with their skin on the line they immediately changed their tune.

Manchester being a "villain" really kills any meaning in the story.

>Take over the world and impose his will to everyone?
Isn't that what people want when they ask why batman doesn't kill the joker?

>Manchester Black was loved.
Loved by edgy retards.

Best solution would be for superman to volunteer to help the UN build an international super prison on the moon or something. Tac nuke under the cells of people who could possibly escape the Moon solo.

>a Red Son tyrant
He wasn't a tyrant. You clearly didn't understand fucking red son. It seems like you read that and thought he was "the bad guy".

>Isn't that what people want when they ask why batman doesn't kill the joker?
>they
Do you mean the meme spouting manchildren? Why doesn't the system condemn the Joker to death then?

You don't need to punch someone to get a fucking reform. Just having Superman there voicing out his opinions (if might doesn't make right and people shouldn't be afraid of Superman), would have a great effect without pressuring the law makers to change because they would die from Superman if they do not.

Because the joker get put into Arkham, a mental institution to reformhim instead of a super maximun security prision.

not him but here on Yea Forums? thats a meme for all the absoulute bulshit reasons writers use to justify him saving the joker when batman could let him die on his own, since you know, you don't kill of your main attraction to your books and they can't write a reason worth a shit

By the people in the story, the people that would still side with him and his position if he wasn't a bad guy.

...

He was imposing his "correct way of living" in the country he was raised in. He used his inhuman powers to be an actual dog of the state. Risen to power and used that same power to wrang control of the world. Lex Luthor turned out to be the good guy in the end by making him see what he was.

Attached: why dont you.jpg (800x489, 111K)

That sort of thing has been tried a few times and it never ends well because, comics being comics, there's always some security failure and you end up with a small army of super-villains opportunistically teaming up to break out.

Plenty of asteroids, give them one each.

>inb4 luthor builds a mass driver and drops a rock on DC.

>He was imposing
He didn't impose shit, he served as a poster boy, that's it.
>He used his inhuman powers to be an actual dog of the state
He didn't, and he doesn't get involved in war at least his country is being targeted.
>Risen to power and used that same power to wrang control of the world
The WORLD sides with the soviets and goes communist on it's own, for fucks sake, the only country aside america that remains capitalist is PINOCHET's Chile, a literal dictatorship.

The world sides with the soviets because he lives there user.

Whether the government chose it or not is irrelevant, a brutal and inescapable authoritarian state was created almost worldwide.

>The world sides with the soviets because he lives there user.
Yes, and they want to be part of the soviet prosperity and security. You missed the entire point of the book because you wanted to read Red Son as a villain or a "conflicted" superman.

>a brutal
Not brutal at all, by the time Soviet batman is an adult there's no "brutality".
>inescapable authoritarian state was created almost worldwide.
And there's nothing wrong with that given that is an Utopia and Superman is the guy in charge.

I did not miss a thing.

No one person has any right to rule over everyone. Then it only takes one bad man like Superman to make everything worse.

The americans were the bad guys in the book.

>implying they still aren't
I'm talking about dogs of the states user.

>No one person has any right to rule over everyone
According to who? A human in the real world? You looked at a comic about an utopian society and somehow missed the entire point. The world in the story isn't bounded by what you believe is "right", you are pushing your own beliefs into a comic that was an intentional abandonment of Millar's own beliefs. It was an exercise of creative writing based on how one factor would change the values of society and how history would develop. But you, in your limited understanding looked at the comic and said "commies=bad".

>utopia

That society was a dystopian nightmare. Yes any ideology with no respect for the rights of the individual IS bad you authoritarian.

I could see Superman just really pissed off that some guy wanted to dress up like a clown and kill people just to get attention and calling him a joke would really get to him.

Feels like Tuesday.

>people was happy, educated and healthy
>bad
Seriously you need to grow up
>for the rights of the individual
What rights are those? right to healthcare? to have a roof over your head? Privacy? freedom to roam? right to education and to pursue happiness?
Seriously "rights of the individual" is a really empty statement, like "liberty" or "democracy", just memes.

>happy

The average person is an idiot who is happy with TV and fast food, their happiness proves nothing. Real grownups are intellectually independent and value freedom over creature comforts.

The original comic had it so Black THOUGHT he just had his powers permanently removed but in reality Supes gave him the equivalent of a concussion and it was only a temporary measure so the feds could get him drugged up so he wasnt a threat anymore

Oh! i thought the same, i never realized it was only temporary.

Superheroes are a fantasy about a benevolent authoritarian that won't get corrupted and just so happen to agree with you. Superman is necessary a shallow character with no real beliefs or agendas because that would break the fantasy (Unless used in propaganda, where they want you to accept his values as correct, but it's rooted in the same effect). He will go against anyone with personality and win to uphold black slate hero trope and keep vigilante fantasy working.

What are his beliefs in practical sense? He was raised a Christian, probably, so would he really tolerate homosexuals and allow government to enable fags? Recreational drugs? Is he pro-open borders or does her ferry illegals back where they came from? What kind of tax policies will he allow? What kind of business avenues will he allow companies to pursue?

The world with a Superman is a world ruled by Superman, but his actual beliefs are conveniently absent so you can fill the blanks.

Superman is a lib. He is the very avatar of modern liberalism. He doesn't give a shit if America nukes a small country as long as gays get to be in the military. His values change with whatever is fashionable for libs to believe.

>The world with a Superman is a world ruled by Superman,
Exactly, and this is why this story is so shitty, either use superman in escapist stories or face the consequences of superman existence in a serious way, you can't have superman shaking hands with the president and at the same time say America is in war in the middle east without the implication Superman is fine with interventionism and the murder of civillians, but of course, when this is adressed brainlets in the audience will get triggered and DC will publish "grounded" as an apology

Yea Forumsmblr is awful

I'll chalk it up to MUHvelshits.

>freedom
Still waiting for what you mean by "individual rights"

Superman exists in a world where all people are genuially good-natured, politicians care about their constituents, and corporations do not control every aspect of your life with aversive uncontrolled strong influence. To try and put him into a real-world setting like The Boys is just insulting to the premise of the character itself. You're not being an intellectual trying to convince anyone Superman wouldn't be a better overlord than an independent hero who lives humbly out of the public eye to rise only to save the world from super villains and cataclysmic events that is out of the control of your local PD or government intervention.

Retards.

It shows that if you define your reality by beating it with a big stick so it falls in line, don't be surprised when someone with an even BIGGER stick comes along and slaps your shit. Might makes right is a philosophy that works perfectly until you find the day that it doesn't

>influence
affluence*

That's the problem with pretty much all superheroes. They all act like the governments of the world aren't insanely corrupt.

Superman is the simplest fucking concept in fiction: a man who will never let you down. People can say it's trite or it's overdone but the truth is that concept isn't actually very common in a pure, nonsubverted form. And Superman does it uniquely well due to his ingrainment in American culture. Everyone knows who Superman is, and there's no suspension of disbelief that Superman can stop a crisis. Of course he bloody can, he's *Superman*!

>To try and put him into a real-world setting like The Boys
>real world
BvS is way closer to "real world". The boys was always just satire. Also
>is just insulting to the premise of the character itself. You're not being an intellectual trying to convince anyone Superman wouldn't be a better overlord than an independent hero who lives humbly out of the public eye
You seem to really have a terrible case of notmuh

>Superman is the simplest fucking concept in fiction: a man who will never let you down.
Nah, Superman is just a good guy with powers that do helps people. That's it.

It wasn't though. It was just Supes just showing them what their own medicine tasted like. The fact that Superman necessary, but only incidental to the moral. The real moral comes out of their reactions. They presumably wouldn't have taken their original "MURDER ALL BAD GUYS" stance if they had felt that fear before.

Attached: Rkatfwk.jpg (410x750, 25K)

>Its not supermans job to take the law into his own hands and decide who has to die. People should vote in politicians willing to execute super criminals.

I feel like if they did a story like this now, Superman would try to argue for the supervillains to not be executed no matter what people actually wanted.

What's he aiming at?

Police don't kill people(well, they're not supposed to). They round up criminals for a judicial system.

Their power is invested in them by the public and their votes.

Superman is a symbol of the public's will. An ideal. The people fall short of that ideal time and again, i.e kill.

Comics are pure power fantasy, and ideals that are damn near impossible to live by, but not striving for them leads to an alternative. Manchester Blacks alternative. Killing willy nilly and enjoying that. Black is more real, desu. He's as close to a Texan speeding up the capital punishment train.

That's closer to reality, but it's not the ideal the general public want to indulge. Key component here. Indulge.

More importantly, he thinks you are a better man that you are. He believes it with every fiber of his being, in fact.

There's a reason that nobody loves Superman more than the edgiest writers. Ennis, Miller, Moore, Morrison... even when he's in the wrong (like he is in DKR), he's still made out to be noble and heroic. Even when he can't save everyone, like in Hitman, he can't help but feel it with every fiber of his being.

*kickstarts a dying sun*

Attached: 5jtsl7.jpg (1024x1574, 140K)

>They all act like the governments of the world aren't insanely corrupt.
Its almost as if Superheroes are just regular people with extraordinary abilities. As it should be, because it is fiction.

>You seem to really have a terrible case of notmuh
Considering Superman himself is a 75+ yo fictional character. Anyone can literally make that claim about his dozens of writer's interpretations.

Dude if I had the power, mankind would be extinct now. I wouldn't be a fucking shitlib about it. And I sure as FUCK would not be bowing to corrupt billionaires saying we just have to bomb those Middle Eastern hospitals.

Thank god dirtbags like you won't have that kind of power.

Yeah...thank god. Hahaha.

based people