Good evening owls,
let's try this?
JSA Storytime: Gen13
Benjamin Moore
David Hughes
the server was robust the other day!
Dylan Ortiz
Christian Rogers
Hello, Storyteller.
I was going to ask last time, but the servers indeed decided to be robust. So we know Hughes is a rare creator who actually likes women, what are some others? Simone is a free space, though even she seems to hate Jan for literally no reason.
Josiah Ortiz
Nolan Sanders
Hi!!
Somehow I missed the day Yea Forums shit itself.
Bendis’ Millennium is this week!! It snuck up on me
Thomas Mitchell
After reading a series today that was totally derailed by event trash and canceled, it's interesting to think about how little event stuff interfered with anything at Wildstorm, everyone was pretty much left to their own devices, and cancelation was almost not a threat at all for a long time
Christian Collins
Well this is a thing so far
Aaron Scott
Claremont!!!
Jacob Price
Savant Garde got canceled :(
Ethan Jones
Ohhh, it's wacky portal shenanigans or something
Cameron King
Okay, which X-Men series is this trying to be a riff on?
Oh absolutely, Claremont. Possibly a bit too much at times.
Nolan Rogers
got lego marvel 2
flyin' around
Nicholas Smith
Parker Cox
Hellll yeah!
Busiek wrote the story and it shows.
Fucking Star Lord dancing shit drove me completely insane though.
Julian Lee
it's...it's rough, that's true
Justin Morris
>Possibly a bit too much at times.
There’s a funny Byrne quote where he complains Claremont ruined Moria McTaggert in like 2 issues because he turned her into generic Claremont woman
I was talking about Storm with someone on twitter and realized it’s amazing how bad a character she can sound without context.
Adrian Wood
Jose Cooper
Did Busiek write the whole thing or just the plot?
Bentley Myers
Aaand we see what demo we're aiming for here
Ayden Roberts
Hey, Storyteller. Should we read that Ravager series that spun out of The Culling? Or is better to avoid watching the Nu52 shit on Wildstorm?
Still mad about Helspont jobbing to Jason Todd. What a crock.
Austin Perry
NO
Matthew Bennett
Plot. The basic idea is that Kang Braniac'd a whole bunch of Marvel locations together into one place so it's not just NYC again.
The Western world is the best one.
Jose Brown
Hey OP.
But none of them are wearing this with legs?
David Brooks
lol
Levi Hill
Oh yeah, then I see why movie shit would be there.
Julian Garcia
You had to know that would end badly Bobby...
Luis Hill
It certainly was!
Is Kat gonna /ss/ this sassy lost child?
Xavier Bell
Fortunately movie stuff is mostly limited to the GotG wanking. Though you still of course have zero FF or X-Men content.
IIRC even most Deadpool stuff was replaced with Gwenpool.
Carter Myers
Landon Torres
That is a problem that Claremont and Rucka unfortunately do share, a tendency to assign more or less the same voice to their female characters. In comics especially it is important to make sure characters are distinct, and they often don't.
And yeah, Ororo does sound a bit weird on paper, but it's not really a problem. Kinda wish she didn't feel so detached from the mutant problem though.
>NO
Fair enough.
Samuel Mitchell
We all joke about Rucka's alcoholic lesbians for a reason
Jack Barnes
Here are some Alan Davis ass designs.
Like, this could be Clan Destine generation 2.
Elijah Campbell
The appeal of Clan Destine has completely eluded me
Jace Morgan
Eh, his love for women is clear... but also kinda tainted by obvious fetishes?
Bentley Morris
Jackson Hall
Uhhhh, Caitlin???
Zachary Nelson
1. I think his fetish shit is overblown by memes at this point.
2. No, The Bride isn't a bad character cause Tarantino did a scene focusing on her moving her foot
I think the bigger problem with Claremont is he just had too many characters eventually. Like Jean, Storm, Kitty, Psylocke, Rachel, Emma, Lilandra, all pretty different.
He also didn't like reinvent as often as Rucka, just chugged along on X-Men
Wyatt Edwards
the id is just hanging out now
Ethan Johnson
That's the only unsexy caitlin I have ever seen.
Elijah King
I enjoyed it, but mostly becuase I ended up with the second issue at random and only read the whole thing years later.
Mostly using it as an example of letting Alan Davis do Alan Davis things for Alan Davis' pleasure.
Anthony Reyes
Why?
Wyatt Jenkins
didn't worldstorm or something completely confuse a later Gen13 volume so much that simone (the writer) had no clue what was going on?
David Martin
I approve of this Roxy!
Kevin Phillips
I guess I just never managed to get into it, there wasn't much of a hook that made me say "I am interested in the adventures of these people".
Kevin Thompson
That series was around terrible. Short, but terrible. Lots of Rose Wilson crying about how Caitlin ran away from her, and a bunch of terrible OC's.
Also an absurdly young Niles Caulder.
Nolan Cooper
>how could you send your kid into danger!
>continually sends his own son, and his friend's two daughters into life threatening situations
I agree, Grunge. You should be tied up and kicked in the crotch.
Bentley Reyes
Henry Rodriguez
Storm is a giant pile of amazing cliche backstories and author favouritism that works in spite of her component parts and has rarely been written well enough to get past that after Claremont left the first time.
Sebastian Ortiz
The Claremont audience? He'd send characters to nudist utopias any chance he'd get.
Aaron Gutierrez
Sounds like SoP material.
What was up with the Nu52 turning heroic/neutral characters into villains? Omen, Warblade, Rose Wilson, Duella Dent, The Riddler, the Amazons... Just part of Didio's obsession with edgy evil bullshit, I guess.
Dylan Brown
this is a correct take, and some of why Storm fans inevitably end up in hellish powerwank arguments
Zachary Allen
>after Claremont left the first time
I really liked it but Claremont's X-Men page in Marvel 1000 getting placed in 2000 when he returned instead of in the 70s or 80s was really funny
i'm always wary talking to other x-fans...
Parker Gray
Evan Collins
Wyatt Jenkins
Jonathan Hughes
I really think it was mostly Didio and Lee. Didio's literally been doing that since his start with Identity Crisis
>Remember those lighthearted characters in the 1960s? Well guess what, they were mind wiping and personality altering their villains THE WHOLE TIME!
Jayden Ramirez
Anthony Peterson
whoops!
Isaiah Cox
Well, at least she gets a Doggy Daddy.
And Sarah is a bisexual succubus, naturally.
Nolan Jackson
Jose Cooper
the Stormwatch series literally died because of an Aliens crossover
Blake Jones
Carter Butler
>Grunge was letting THIS Caitlyn distract him from the Bride of Roxenstein
Ryan Torres
Andrew Martinez
Good isn't realistic. In real life everything is evil, so if comic characters were real they'd all be evil too. And we can't have anything being unrealistic, we're adults.
Carson Cruz
Andrew Martin
also, good is dumb
Henry Garcia
Yeah you're right, I'm definitely wearing rose tinted glasses.
Hawk and Dove ending with a forced tie in to War of the Gods, AND Titans Hunt, AND Armageddon 2001 all at the same time just got me all steaming.
Adam Perez
>Identity Crisis
>that infamous declaration that Countdown was "52 done right"
Seriously, Didio needs to fuck all the way off with this shit.
Zachary Baker
Robert Gomez
I just can't care about these kids, I'm sorry
Liam Long
Its kinda the same problem that Shadowcat has been facing for a long time now- there's more weighing down the character than a lot of the writing gets around.
Kurt Burien writing a dick wizard? That sounds fun.
Gabriel Collins
He's currently successful in derailing all of the original Teen Titans with the exception of Garth, who is just gone now.
>Wally accidentally killed a bunch of people and went nuts
>Donna is now infected by the batman who laughs
>Dick is now Ric
>Roy was killed by Wally/might be leviathan?
William Thompson
This Xenolynch isn't phallic enouh to be from Caitlyn's id,
Jeremiah Rogers
Adrian Lopez
it's insane, those are even the titans anyone cares about!
going to get mad about lobdell and booth doing a wally multiversal adventure again now
Angel Long
Ethan Cox
Joshua Reed
>Grunge is too stupid to have a subconscious dream reality
Entirely correct.
When people starting calling Didio based a few years ago, I was baffled by the necessary amnesia that must have been involved.
Camden Brooks
Alexander Brooks
Gabriel Anderson
And before that we had him cancelling Young Justice and Titans when he first got the job in 2003, with a messy crossover that ended with Donna dead.
That lighter status quo was replaced with Johns' Teen Titans (darkening the Young Justice crew), and the "gritty" Outsiders series with Winick ("BEING A FAMILY IS WHAT GOT DONNA KILLED! REEEEEE")
Joseph Turner
but it got us an AMERICA'S MOST WANTED crossover
Dylan Davis
>Donna is now infected by the batman who laughs
Fucking seriously
Why is this happening
You know I can see why someone could autistically hate Wally/Dick and their irritatingly rabid fans, but like, Donna? What did she do to deserve this constant misery?
Someone should reveal that Dark Angel never actually was destroyed and Donna actually still is being forced to live out cursed existences as petty revenge
Ian Sanchez
I find the attitude that asshole=mature legitimately disturbing. Not to clutch at pearls here, but goddamn does it feel like the villainstan thing is at least partially responsible for the decline of civilized society.
Also, fuck that Joker movie. It's Falling Down with the Joker, which is a fucking retarded idea.
Thomas Harris
Oh shit, she just Johns'd him!
Dylan Murphy
I'm so happy about the Joker movie for the sheer amount of cringe material it will bring, it's looking to make the edgelord factory that was TDK look like a joke
Ethan Wright
Do yourself a favor and just mute "Joker movie" on twitter, opt out of the Discourse
Chase Rogers
Oh look, it's a Grunge ex machina
Daniel Carter
the Joker discourse is already exhausting
WEAK!
Ryan Cruz
Cooper Rivera
Well, they were created to die to make Kat sad so, I don't think you're meant to care that much about them?
Remember how Rebirth launched to great acclaim, after a well regarded Dan Abnett mini reuniting the original Titans?
Jordan Reyes
Cooper Brown
A WildCATs crossover at that, but Ellis was writing both so... eh, it's not like anyone actually got fucked over (other than the characters that died I guess, but they got better eventually)
Jackson Parker
>When people starting calling Didio based a few years ago, I was baffled by the necessary amnesia that must have been involved.
There was someone a few weeks ago claiming that Yea Forums has always loved Didio, and that people not liking him is something that's only happened in the last few months.
I felt like I was in crazy-land
Parker Rivera
Hunter Evans
Ryder Turner
I imagine Didio running around the office saying "I hate Rebirth!!" the same way he reportedly did for 52
I honestly hate to just blame everything squarely on Didio, since the guy on some days seems to have some legitimate ideas about how comics can grow, but then his implementation of these ideas is Mirror Master snorting coke off of a mirror he is inside of, and I really can't defend him
Hunter Wright
You're not supposed to though?
Jaxon Ortiz
>a messy crossover that ended with Donna dead.
Graduation Day. It was more than messy, it was hot wet trash. The ONLY good thing that came out of it was Indigo.
Oh, and it also ended up with Omen dying for basically no reason. She didn't reappear until the Nu52 as one of Harvest's evil underlings. Poor Lilith.
>What did she do to deserve this constant misery?
She's a Wonder Woman character. Their lot in life is to suffer for no reason.
Jonathan Garcia
super bummer ending!!!!
Connor Allen
There's a reason I call them Rebirthbabbies, they're obvious newfags
William Jackson
Don't worry, that was Johns' idea, but he always get a free pass around here for some reason
Nathaniel Cooper
>Remember how Rebirth launched to great acclaim, after a well regarded Dan Abnett mini reuniting the original Titans?
His Titans really reads like he kept getting editorially-blocked at every turn. What was pitched as "Wally tries to figure out what Manhatten did to him" turned into "an evil donna from the future, something."
Same thing with his Aquaman. Johns' Rebirth one-shot features Arthur and Mera proposing, then Abnett spent around eighteen issues dancing around why they can't get married. Then his run ended without the marriage 40 or so issues later, and now KSD's said that she's not allowed to marry them either (but getting Mera pregnant was approved for angst).
Blake Sanchez
is anyone actually reading KSD Aquaman???
Luis Thomas
THANKS FOR READING
WE'LL READ SOMETHING TUESDAY
yes i'm gonna go play more lego
Dominic Allen
i'm actually really liking it...
Gabriel Sullivan
She did an amnesia plot, which turned a lot of people off.
The book is not terrible, but she will get blamed for when it inevitably gets cancelled due to low sales.
Chase Gomez
It wasn't, it was in Countdown, no Johns involvement
Eli Garcia
It's the same argument since the first time someone started preaching "comic books aren't just for kids!!one!"
Some people just want fiction that lets them vicariously be an asshole without consequence.
Austin Hall
Mirror Master doing coke off his mirrors was in Johns run as well.
Blake Rivera
Or just drop Twitter, like I did like five years ago.
I am insulted by this ending.
Eli Torres
Thanks for posting as always, Storyteller.
Welp, this one was depressing. Enjoy your LEGO, I'm gonna go... I dunno, bitch about how Black Widow is such a squandered character because Marvel is too stupid to have their spy character do spy stuff.
Austin Ward
Are you excited for that brand new Black Widow miniseries? She's tackling a loose end from her past, come back to haunt her!
Liam Stewart
The fuck are you on, that was introduced in a Flash issue centered around McCulloch
Logan Turner
A fine DC tradition!
Sebastian Young
Ah, guess I never read that one. I only started bringing it up after forcing myself through Countdown last week.
Gavin Harris
No, not really. I'd really rather see her go on pulpy spy adventures to thwart the nefarious plans of supervillains.
>loose end from hero's past
Oh god, make this cliche fucking stop!
Henry Phillips
Thanks for running, OP.
Bentley Gutierrez
high-cut
Tyler Hill
Brandon Robinson
Jason Adams
>she seems to hate Jan for literally no reason.
She read Janet in the Lee/Kirby era. In which she was fucking awful.
Kevin Adams
Jan's probably the worst of that crop of Lee/Kirby women characters and not many of the men who wrote her later did a good job expanding/building maybe because she's so identified with feminine-coded things, the fashion and shit.
Ryder Collins
thanks OP
I missed the storytime, was visiting my grandpa
Kevin King
Johns is so edgy and terrible its unbearable
Joshua Cruz
I think the exact moment where she stopped being awful was in a Bill Mantlo story where she completely undoes ALL of the damage Baron Zemo did using Adhesive X, via making some phone calls to a Judge, the police and of all people, Paste Pot Pete.
Jonathan James
Got some Gen 13 issues from the the very start to about issue 20, are they worth anything?
Connor Diaz
they will make your heart grow three sizes but wallet will remain the same