Ian Flynn's pitch for a Super Mario comic, from back when Archie was looking for more licenses

There's no "internal" at Archie, it's editors, the people in charge, and freelance.

Do we know the plots of either of them?

Not that I know of, Tracey just posted test pages.

Got those on hand?

No, but it's easy to Google.

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>internally
You mean inside the garage of their tiny ass building?

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Why do people even care about this hack?

He got praised as a good writer on Sonic and actually wrote a couple fun stories.
And he wrote a couple good Mega Man stories.
And since nobody else has enough clout to get in while also lacking better alternatives, he and his pals basically get to permanently remain the creative team on all Sonic related comics.
All of his original or near-original work is absolutely terrible.

The only thing he got right was Peach being shown to love Mario.

On their first meeting? I dunno, seems too much. The pitch also misses that the strength of Mario is his unyielding passion and good vibes. There's way too much ho hum, seriousness and negativity. The entire Mario cast is defined by their extreme positivity, even Bowser and Luigi.

The only thing I like about this pitch is the "Luigi accidentally beating Bowser by knocking down an ax" thing.
Sounds like something out of Super Mario Adventures.

But the rest sounds like the same shit that made Mega Man such a tedious read. Your first arc is literally trying to tell the first game as a comic? He's actually going to spend 4 issues going from 1-1 to 8-4? No. Just take the characters and have them go on a fun adventure. Don't make it "I have to fight through these levels and battle Bowser!"

Well yeah not immediately. It should develop over time as they get to know each other better. Contrasting it to Luigi and Daisy would be cute too.

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>The only thing I like about this pitch is the "Luigi accidentally beating Bowser by knocking down an ax" thing.
Same.
The characterization in general seems weird. Mario being bored and unhappy with his job instead of being a constant source of enthusiasm? Luigi bickering with him and them needing to reconcile instead of being a weenie and doing the right thing with a little prodding? Bowser being dismissive and threatening instead of bombastic, arrogant and extremely charismatic? They're so far off that it's kind of baffling, especially given how they're basically slight retools of Disney/WB characters at their core.

Those aren't the Archie offices anymore. They have a bigger one now, a second set in Cali and a third set in Vancouver.

>Get more offices while downscaling production.
Weird.

Couldn't just do it like the Valiant comics did? With Mario and Luigi so used to the daily crap they do that they can hold a casual conversation about comic books while at the same time wipe out a whole army of Bowser's minions?

technically they only downscaled floppy production
they boosted production on all the other stuff

That sounds terrible.
Good point.

Daisy is only allowed to be implied to be Luigi's girlfriend.

Got any examples? I've never seen any of his stuff besides Sonic.

Go read Cosmo.

That's based on an older comic, isn't it?

That was a cute story. Meant for children, obviously.

I've never understood the "it's for kids" defense. Just because it's not for you doesn't mean you can't assess if it's decent for what it intends to accomplish. Stuff that gets that handwave tends to be worse than most of the alternatives, so why would a parent waste their time on it? Who's gonna buy Cosmo for their kid when they can get them some Dr. Seuss or put on Scooby Doo, for example?

Doesn't make any sense.

I did like Cosmo, and gave it to my nephew. That also won an ALA award, which is more than Ian’s Sonic work ever did.

>That also won an ALA award
Unless I'm mistaken it was an *I*LA list, not an ALA Award.

>still more than who japan

My mistake, but it’s still something that they previously lacked. Libraries took notice of what was essentially an original work.

It also didn't last long in sales.

>Libraries
That's not how the International Literacy Association works. Their comics reading lists are basically every child focused graphic novel released recently that isn't directly tied to a larger work (with exceptions like Dog Man that have no meaningful tie and are already well known). Within the list are recommendations, which Cosmo failed to receive.

It's just mentioned by Archie because it sounds like an accolade. It's not. Sonic and Mega Man got on similar lists via smaller organizations/sites before.

I like how these threads always become anti-Archie or anti-IDW. Or both. Like they’ve wronged people somehow.

Eh I sort of like it.

IDW is really frustrating to read, and it isn't like the games have stories that attempt to try anymore.

A bit harsh on Luigi? I know he’s cowardly sometimes (especially around ghosts) but he would never abandon his brother and Peach like that.

It sounds like he is making Mario too tryhard and serious.

His Atomic Skull story was okay.

>It must be a bias against the company.
I shit on IDW Sonic and most of Archie Sonic. Diesn't mean both companies haven't put out good books.
Gotta remember this guy has hypnotised himself to save his brother and conquered multiple haunted houses. He may be a wuss, but he never backs down for real.

So, not even one bit of interesting plot until they reach the very end? 2 whole issues of just them killing goombas?

This is why videogame adaptations suck

to turn him on his head, what did you like from each?
i’m a fan of the first and third mega man arcs, for instance

Everyone wants to make Mario into some super deep and dramatic thing with levels of storytelling. When it's the game equivalent to Teen Titans Go in how it was meant to be 100% wacky fun and virtually nothing deeper than that at all ever.

Bouncy goofy humor, sight gags, and terrible puns are the bread and butter of the franchise.

Actually seems like modern 11 minute wacky comedy action cartoons like TTG!, Rise of the TMNT, Mao Mao, would be the perfect way to do a Mario series.

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>too much drama, not enough whimsy
He even acknowledges that at the end you faggola

I think the first 8 issues of Mega Man are pretty good. Proto Type and 2/3 of the finale (Rock and Blues' final issues) were the high point.

I also really liked Angelo DeCesare's Sonic, Dan Slott and Danny Fingeroth's short lived work, a few Mike Gallagher stories, a couple Bollers stories, and a good 20ish Ian stories. Sonic Boom's first four issues were great too.

If we're talking outside the Sonic sphere of influence Dan DeCarlo is a fucking legend and an artist I greatly admire, and some of IDW's weirder Transformers and GI Joe stuff is great, pic related.

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They're more like simpler versions of the old Disney cartoons, honestly. Bowser may as well be "Physically Strong Donald Duck."

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>Donald Duck
>Not Bluto

While Super Show took way too loose an interpretation of the Mushroom Kingdom and relied far too much on pop culture references at the time, it understood that Mario isn't a character who needs serious development of any kind. It also didn't bore the viewer trying to recreate the games in animated form, because it realized there wasn't enough (narrative) substance to do so.

Mario would work best in the vain of those old Mickey cartoons, with he and Luigi puttering around and doing jobs for people and getting into shenanigans. Both brothers work much better as 'normal' folks bouncing off of how weird the other characters are than they do sustaining their own drama.

It's just petty tribalistic autism, like always. Even with how much I miss Archie Sonic and dread how 'empty' IDW feels in comparison, I'm still gonna be optimistic that it'll continue to slowly get better and enjoy things (like the zombots and T&W).

Doesn't mean we can't have criticisms either, but constructive > shitflinging.

I mean fair enough, but you get what I mean.

>It would adapt the original Mario Bros. game
>Actually adapts Super Mario Bros.

This. I'd say the perfect amount is something akin to Mario RPG's idea of a silly but big "plot". At most it shouldn't be more dramatic than Super Paper Mario's, which itself was still mostly just humor.

Maybe giving some space to do fun things with side-characters would be neat too, like the Toads, Koopalings or Broodals.

>First comic arc being about Mario and Luigi in the sewers stomping on Shellcreepers, Sidesteppers and Fighter Flies.

Based. I'd read it

There could be room for plot expansion there.

Tie it into the main story...
Mario and Luigi were plumbers, went to investigate the creepy creatures coming out of the sewers, find out said creatures are coming from Mushroom Kingdom which the sewers lead to.

...shit, that's almost the plot to Super Mario Bros Super Show

It breaks the plot if Yoshi's Island.

>The part where Mario and Luigi go separate ways, they argue on the Mario Bros. stage while stomping on them
That's what I thought could be cool.

>Mario would work best in the vain of those old Mickey cartoons, with he and Luigi puttering around and doing jobs for people and getting into shenanigans.
Makes sense, one episode they're working as Wrecking Crew, another as Doctors, more often as plumbers etc.
Man I loved the Super Show live action scenes.

Not to be the Dobson, but the whole "Mario is bored and yearns for adventure while Luigi craves normalcy and stability" angle would work a thousand times better if they started out in Brooklyn instead of the Mushroom Kingdom. Just saying.

Aw, fuck the Yoshi's Island plot.
Retelling the games 1:1 is, as has been said many times before, one of the things that made Ian's Megaman comic a bore.

Just use the games as a loose framework for plot, keep the tone and atmosphere, and make it your own story. That's really the only way to make Mario work

Or you can just easily mixed the two plots together by simply saying the Mario bros were born on the MK, moved in Brookyln, then came back to the MK as adults:
>Mario and Luigi were born in the Mushroom Kingdom/World and the Stork was going to deliver them to their parents
>Kamek came and kidnapped them, but accidentally dropped Mario in Yoshi's Island
>Events of Yoshi's Island happened, Yoshi defeated Kamek and Baby Bowser, returned the babies to the stork, and then stork successfully delivered the babies to their parents
>the Yoshi's Island events scared the parents into taking their kids to the real world to avoid any more danger
>The Mario Brothers grew up in Brooklyn and the series of Arcade DK events happened
>The Mario Bros decided to take a job as plumbers and that's where the Mario Bros. event happened that later led to the Super Mario Brothers plot.

Are the writer and the artist of the Super Mario Adventures and Mario vs Wario comics still around? I would love for the Mario comics to be just like that

...

>A quick peruse of Google makes it seem like that manga was basically all either of them ever did

Huh. The writer did a book called "Even a Monkey Can Draw Manga" but that seems to be all