Anyone else think this story has gotten to bleak for Sonic? The games usually used humor to keep things from getting too dark and depressing, but this arc really doesn't do that.
Anyone else think this story has gotten to bleak for Sonic...
Matthew Sanders
Jacob Miller
I think it's fine and all
I just think sometimes they forget it's a series about a talking hedgehog meant mainly for kids
Isaiah Richardson
A bit, yeah. I don't think its below acceptable levels but it certainly is getting darker.
Daniel Brown
It's fine but this also isn't a premise that needs to be stretched out for like 12 issues
Brody Evans
Well in a longer story you usually do something to break the tension, but this comic doesn't do that.
Nathaniel Ramirez
>one of the main characters is the last of his kind
>The other had his teenage Sister Figure killed by the government
>but how dare they rise up the tensions a bit, this is for kids, kids are retards who should only watch teletubbies
Christian Rivera
I think if the comic wasn't a monthly this pacing issue wouldn't be problem
Jack Nelson
Uhh yeah? Those things still exist and are taken seriously but don't fully dictate the tone of the series.
Zachary Ross
It's boring because it's too much like a PG zombie comic now. Comic starts set with the longest prologue ever, a rushed fight against Metal, and now we're STILL dealing with the same situation as when this arc started. People are turning into zombies, Sonic is infect and has to go fast to stay normal, and the others are trying to survive, and nobody knows how to reverse it. Eggman is barely in this too. He did his thing and it's working without him having an active role in it which is the biggest problem with this arc.
Nathan Brooks
No, I just think it's tedious and uninteresting. I guess you could say it's bleak in the sense that it's trying to be dour instead of serious but still upbeat. I'd enjoy it doing that if the tone was actually like a thriller or horror story, but it's just annoying.
This whole comic is the ultimate proof that once Ian gets an idea in his head he stubbornly chases it instead of adapting to what's currently going on around him.
Jordan Myers
SA2 changes its tone/tension all the time, even with Shadow when he has that fight with Sonic that starts off with a friendly conversation, or his whole change of heart. That's just Shadow, the other characters' stories all have their own tones that fit their character.
Bentley Morris
>It's boring because it's too much like a PG zombie comic now.
Nah, it'd be fun if it was going that route. In fact...
Justin Hill
Flynn said he wanted things to constantly get worse in this arc.
Hudson Martin
Gonna try to skip pages that don't matter to this particular story setup.
Luke White
Except this one, because Adam Wesker as a Sonic character is too good.
Blake Wilson
I want IDW to try to top this great moment
Nathaniel Rogers
That issue was shit.
Luis Gonzalez
Josiah Perez
You'll notice there are things going on in this comic like
>establishing the setting
>foreshadowing
>background details
It's ugly and the dialogue/panel composition sucks, but this is actually accomplishing the basics here.
Jaxson Peterson
We've established that something is amiss and are building a sense of curiosity as the group splits apart, setting up for the others to be revealed to have turned later. We also plant seeds for later elements while establishing our characters for the audience in case this is their first issue.
Asher Mitchell
We're starting to get the feeling that something is really wrong, and hints of creepiness come in, the setting is used to emphasize the atmosphere (poorly because shit art) with the lighting and emptiness.
Brandon Morgan
Dramatic irony, the tension builds! Our characters are having fun but we KNOW they're not okay, something's going on, something's wrong, they're in danger, get out of there now!
Justin Reed
This story also isn't dragged out.
Mason Scott
We move back to the other half of the cast, and oh no! They're in danger too! We edge closer, and closer, and closer to the reveal! We get a hint, could it be, those characters foreshadowed earlier?
Brandon Clark
That's actually because I cut out about a third of the comic. The original pacing is way worse because it has to deal with a completely different subplot from the previous issue both to wrap it up and to keep Sonic away from the cast this issue. This story continues into the next issue, but yeah, it's resolved in under 50 pages. My point is more about structure and how the story itself is written than how long it is.
No! Our heroes realize something is wrong, but it's too late! Run, run!!
Isaac Rivera
50 pages is better than 240.
Brandon Morris
The reveal! Aaah, it's spooky! It's also far more effective because instead of having a completely normal adventure story and then having the characters randomly turn into zombies at the very end to start the plot we dedicated the issue to *setting up the story we want to tell with the tone we want to establish*.
Ryder Davis
Good, let the hate flow through Sonic.
Daniel Cooper
I mean yeah but you get what I mean, right? You could still do a decent job with a year's worth of zombie stories, and you don't need to make them all actual horror style adventures. If anything the progression from horror to action is perfect, just like how Romero's movies evolved to be less about dread of a predator all around you and more about the less painful but more anxiety inducing dread of every day life with them as a constant.
Combination comic relief and action because the comic doesn't want to be TOO scary.
Lincoln Wright
nice
Luke Anderson
FUCKING HELL GIGA SATAN HAS SPOKEN
Bentley Jones
That's a nice get.
Ethan Reed
I HAVE WITNESSED GIGASATAN IN PERSON
(YOU) DESERVE MY (YOU)
Jayden Gray
Awkward exposition here because this is based on an episode from the TV show and it would be impossible to keep this as a sequel while also going back over this info naturally with the same characters.
Ayden Flores
Sonic X was just a better comic than IDW in general. Whatever the circumstances, it managed to get good writing from Flynn.
Aiden Hughes
Aaron Bailey
Thomas Moore
This story wasn't written by him, though. And generally speaking, he just wrote better when he was younger because he had more to lose and was less set in his routine.
Dylan Campbell
Oh noooooooo!
Don't post that.
Brayden Fisher
And now we have Lucky Satan to counter in a Sonic thread about zombies.
Nolan Peterson
Isaac Lewis
Liam Evans
Suspense! Drama! Stuff happening!
Nolan Davis
Christian Reyes
you know the zombot arc is basically the final vestige of Kaminski's influence
Chase Long
Sorry, I was so spooked I forgot to quote the post.
Jack Ward
I mean I guess. Except Ian wasn't really working on it while Kaminski was editor, so.
Caleb Hernandez
The creation of Sonic was meant to appeal to teenagers who thought Mario was to kiddy. Sonic is a rebelious 15 year old who follow his own rules but cares about his friends. Sonic was always meant to be a little more serious compared to other platformers. If you remove that edge, you removes what makes Sonic so appealing to people. There's a reason why so many people loathes Colors and Lost World because everything is a joke and there is no tension. Sonic should have a good balance between serious and lighthearted. Just because Sonic is talking animal doesn't mean there can't be tension or big stakes as long as the characters stay true to themselves and don't change them to force a different tone. No matter how dangerous thing gets, Sonic never gives up and keeps on fighting. Sonic appeals to kids for his coolness and attitude, Sonic Colors but mostly Lost World is that dangerous thought about Sonic being silly talking animals like other platformers
Long post, but I hate people shitting on Sonic and his legacy just because he's a talking hedgehog
Luke Diaz
Skippin a few pages that just serve to break up the zombie story, Grandpa tells them Sonic's in jail and Sonic does jail things.
Austin Taylor
Someone link the mega with this, I lost it
Oliver Thomas
The hell it was. It was Robotnik making a grand return as an unstoppable force setting the clock back to zero. Completely curb stomped Sonic, took back his city, and had shown to have better made Swat Bots that at least for a while seemed to stand up to Sonic longer.
Leo Cruz
yeah a lot of people write off the entire era, but Karl's earliest stories were actually pretty good
Justin Robinson
Yeah, it was a return to status quo accompanied with a bunch of bad exposition and powerlevel wanking, you're correct.
Christopher Gutierrez
I agree, just not that one. Icon's still pretty fun, among other things.
Connor Davis
Owen Garcia
who was a better writer on the sonic x book specifically (ignoring their non sonic x stuff): Joe Edkin, or ol' Ian?
Brayden Bennett
Honestly, the story drags in the second issue to pad for time, which is stupid given it has a huge anticlimax ending. The writing isn't very good, is what I'm saying.
Adam Wilson
Ian in terms of consistency. Edkin wrote a better version of Genesis that was just one issue long, it was probably one of the comic's best issues. Other stories were much weaker.
Henry Wright
Ian Jones
Wahh I want my villain to be a complete pushover the hero can kill whenever he wants
Juan Flores
Brayden Carter
I remember when it was still silly despite Robotnik becoming all-powerful.
Jordan Robinson
Early Robotnik will always reign over the modern one as the one who set the stage for global conquest that his modern one never could hold onto, robotisized Sonic, instrumented the enslavement of an entire planet, and decimated the multiverse with the Ultimate Annihilator that it never fully recovered from.
John Wilson
Waaah I take criticism about the story itself being trash as hating the villain I like.
Seriously, chill. I don't care that he came back and returned the status quo, I'm saying the story itself blew hard. They spent several issues just setting it up, had Sonic and friends pop into space, he says "hi it's me" and blows up and they end up plopping back down and running off to Knothole. It's really not great and feels more like a stream of consciousness attempt to put the changes editorial and Sega wanted in motion than an actual story that incorporated those changes.
That was pretty cute.
Prior Page that I skipped: Sonic complains about Jail being boring and is then told he's free to go.
Anthony Watson
>tails tombstone
Andrew Cruz
>robotisized Sonic
I mean you say that like it's dramatic while omitting that the story is Nack literally hitting him with an anvil gag and Sonic being dragged into a big machine all cartoony-like.
Luke Morgan
And, in fitting with this being a goofy gag comic, the story is resolved by the fact that...the ghost is actually super reasonable.
Ryan James
It was being set up as a mastermind behind the sattelites that they had to eventually confront. The fact that he still won even in the face of being blown up with their homes taken away from them once again was a brilliant way to rejuvenate a stagnant comic since the arc about chasing Naugus was boring as shit.
Easton Young
No seriously he's pretty chill.
Samuel Reed
The aftermath was anything but cartoony.
Kevin Moore
You're still talking about the status quo instead of the story of the issue itself. It's stilted, filled to the brim with more exposition than is actually needed to convey the information, and is contrivance after contrivance. It isn't actually a fun read, it's just a kinda crappy story that serves to make for (what should be) positive changes for the comic going forward. I get what you're saying, but the execution was terrible.
The final page is as stock as it gets, so we're skipping it. I hope you were mildly bemused by this kinda okay but structurally sound little horror-comedy.
Caleb Long
I mean you say that.
But that looks just like a lot of action cartoons, and this is followed up by Bunnie decking him while making Confederate Army puns, and Knuckles turning into a dreadlocked robot and punching him some more while making intentionally corny back and forth jabs about their super cool toyetic abilities. And is then followed up by an issue drawn in the normal art style of Sonic getting taken to literal kangaroo court and going on a wacky adventure to kidnap Nack.
It's pretty silly.
Forgot the last image.
Aiden Smith
I give that it could have pushed it harder with more grim imagery if it wanted, but for a Sonic comic it was one of the first real serious moments where it felt like the stakes were high and that their victory would come at a certain cost. It is those types of stories I value most in the Archie run since it took risks, and went beyond the cartoony nature to give some memorable moments.
Logan Rodriguez
I think you're conflating Spaz's art with the writing. It's written the exact same way as all of Gallagher's other stories, Spaz just decided to draw it in a dramatic way.
Sebastian Diaz
This is probably one of the biggest blunders Archie did where they had a great story set up and completely fucked it up with a half assed story, and Ron Lim's shitty artwork. Here we could have had a 4 issue mini arc showcasing the strengths of each Robotnik working together as one, similar to how Wily and Eggman worked together later on, to ensnare and trap Sonic in something that would require both of them to work together on. It also would have been a good way to identify how they are technically the same person but have different personalities and different style of inventions.
Aaron Thomas
Well the kangaroo court aftermath seemed much more jarring in tone and writing.
Nolan Flores
They planned on doing that for realsies later on but then Bollers quit and they fired Penders so it got scrapped
Logan Stewart
Take all the dialogue from 39, MM, and 40 and copy it into MSWord.
Read it.
You'll notice absolutely nothing jarring whatsoever. You're projecting on to the comic because you thought Spaz's pencils were epic.
Liam Price
It was out of character for them to question Sonic's loyalties when they knew full well he had no free will as a machine, and didn't go willingly. It was just a chance to make readers hate Antoine because he wanted Sally's squirrel hole.
Hunter Russell
The story where Sonic and his friends got trapped in a VR game based on Sonic 1 was a two-parter.
Adrian Sanders
>Skippin a few pages that just serve to break up the zombie story,
You fucking faggot! Post the whole thing.
Levi Powell
there was a story time on /vg/, but last pages were not posted. wanted to see how sonic won
Cameron Hernandez
I know how it ends.
Sonic and his pals fight all the way to the end of the Scrap Brain Zone, unaware that once they win, the Master Emerald-powered VR chamber will blast off into space and kill them on the under-construction EggMoon. Chris and his grandpa find them by tracking the Master Emerald and get them out in time.
Owen Gutierrez
Nah, they're literally a waste of time and do nothing but recap shit or show Sonic bumming around in a jail cell.
Nolan Evans
It is very bleak.
Cooper King
These last few chapters have had a lot of funny moments, especially Omega. But the story is intense right now so obviously that does and should over shadow the more comedic elements.
Joshua Torres
The tension never lets up to let the audience take a break though.
Gabriel Watson
The entire arc has never let the tension up, so really no comedy gets through.
Matthew Bailey
it does though, and its not really a requirement
Elijah Robinson
When does the arc take a break from reminding us how bad the zombot apocalypse is?
Landon Martinez
you should read it user
Jonathan Evans
Fleetway really liked shitting on Tails.
Gabriel Johnson
Damn, finally someone gets it.
Hunter Morales
I did.
Aaron Hill
I honestly enjoy how much a scenario like the zombots should be pushing the characters. The real issue is the overall problem of IDW just having little substance or energy compared to either iteration of Archie, these mandates (or Ian being burnt out) really blow.
Ayden Gray
I almost completely agree, but also consider the following: Sonic doesn't compete with Mario anymore, he lost.
Thomas Nelson
These pages are equivalent to a single issue of IDW Sonic. Imagine if this much happened per issue, or they ever bothered to tell an atypical story like this.
Jackson Walker
Speaking to the creators at shows, it’s a mixture of stiffer Sega mandates and IDW not giving them incentives, such as paying them Archie rates or paying them on time.
Chase Lewis
>stiffer mandates
The only "evidence" we've heard of was a secondhand of Ian saying he had to rewrite Shadow because Sega didn't like the power inhibitor thing and wanted him to make more obvious mistakes. Instead of rewriting the story he just made Shadow a prissy dumbass. I have a hard time blaming Sega for that.
Angel Diaz
Sonic almost dies via melting in the atmosphere
Tails actually seemed to be the most self sufficient he has ever been in the series
Knuckles almost killed someone
Amy gave a character altering pep talk
Eggman was at his most competent state he ever was, and for all intents and purposes, won in his struggle against Sonic.
It was more than just Shadow
Michael Foster
Owen Sanders
There's a huge gulf between facts that are grim and a story's tone. Sonic is fun because it's crazy, cheesey and kinda insane. This middle ground "things are bleak but not spooky/anxious" approach just makes for boring stories that aren't fun.
Jose Cooper
You can ask people like ABT or Herms on social media. There's a lot of notes every issue from Sega compared to their Archie days.
Nathan Brown
They give any examples?
Owen Parker
Corporations shouldn't own these characters after so many years. We should be allowed make a variety of takes.
Austin Robinson
Sonic isn't even 30, dude.
Parker Collins
Didn't I say that in the post?
Luis Cook
For some reason I missed all the key parts of your argument, and thought you were saying all the seriousn was solely due to Shadow. Please excuse my autism.
Cameron Davis
I made a thread asking this but the thread sucks so I'll ask it here.
What is the best adaptation of Sonic? IDW, Archie, or Fleetway version? What are their pros and cons?
Matthew King
You might want to split Archie into Pre-Reboot and Post-Reboot.
Grayson Clark
None of em.
Fleetway has a few dozen good stories. Archie is the same. Most of both sucks.
Austin Ramirez
IDW, it's fun, they kept the best archie artist, the stories are good, and its the best comic portrayal of Sonic as a character
Carson Anderson
What's Sonic's personality in IDW?
Don't pull from other sources and cited evidence.
Jose Young
You couldn't be more wrong. It is the blandest comic.
Isaac Diaz
This. Yeah Archie wasn’t a steak, it was like a diner hamburger. IDW Sonic is like chewing cardboard. It takes forever and lacks any substance.
Joseph Wood
Archie
Nathaniel Barnes
It's just like what the Archie comics did occasionally so it's not like it's new to Sonic comics.
Though it helps that it's using Forces as a springboard which is technically the most "dramatic" entry in the franchise game-wise for a while.
Michael James
The Best Adaptation?
Um....maybe not the best. But I'm going to lean for Archie cuz that's muh childhood and also of how ambitious it was trying to cram a lot of the western canon alongside the games and OC into this rich world worth exploring.
Fleetway had some interesting ideas but it got too bonkers at times and too depressing at others and I never liked the dialogue. I love Tekno and Shortfuse.
IDW is cheap, shallow and slow Sonic Forces fan fiction floating on top of a bunch of Ian's unused Archie scripts. Has no soul.
Honestly, the actual best adaptation was Boom
Jace Wilson
Yeah...that would describe what would make a good Sonic comic - It's not a five star dinner, it's delicious comfort food that you know it's not good for you, but it makes you FEEL good.
Now granted, a REALLY good Sonic comic would be one of those trendy neighborhood restaurants that is reasonable expensive and is always really crowded because everyone wants to eat over there and they make the best Sloppy Joes with curly fries you ever had, alongside some vegan dish the hipsters love.
Isaiah Gray
Bunnie needed more stories
Cooper Hughes
Same as the games
Wyatt Lopez
This sounds like set up to a rather lewd situation.
Samuel Nelson
For some reason all Sonic media has to be some horrible Matrix/Terminator style "All hope is lost, the evil empire took over everything!" bleak and terrible ultra dark nightmare where Sonic is the lone adventurer trying to retake the world.
I never got that impression of things from any game.
Oliver Murphy
Even Forces takes the concept and makes it more lighthearted.
Dominic Perez
Reboot Archie
Brandon Kelly
Why does Bunnie have irises while Tails and Ben don't? Is it because she's a bit older than them that she gained some?
Isaiah Rivera
look like a page by Jodorowosky lmao
Brayden Bell
That's wrong but okay
Carter Stewart
Bunnie needed a lot more screentime for a character that had a strong premise, and that kinda sucks she doesn't:
>broken bird that suffered a traumatic fate that left her in poor condition
>has to accept the present circumstances with the help of new friends
>learn to love herself again becoming the southern belle everyone knows
Theory: the younger you are, the more Classic looking you look like. As you get older, you get pupils with irises and color, looking more Modern. Seeing as Bunnie is married by the time of the Unleashed arc, she may be older than she looks.
Carter Ross
>Don't pull from other sources
Describe it, using only the comics.
Jace Evans
Bunnie had quite a few, it's that they never went anywhere. She never even really got negative character traits.
Cameron Flores
She's 20 at most. Even in the old continuity 20 was the oldest she
William Carter
>Honestly, the actual best adaptation was Boom
You can't just post that without someone like me asking you to go into a bit of detail as of why.
Isaiah Sullivan
Reboot Archie for sure. Most consistent tone/pacing, has the best Sonic character designs (especially the Eggbosses) that put the current Sonic Team's to shame, frequent creative scenarios that also felt like a medley of Sonic's history and a balance between silliness and seriousness. It even made the FF's look like proper Adventure-onwards characters and even handled Unleashed's setting very well.
Old-Archie certainly had the higher points and ambitions, but was all over the place in qualityand flip-flopped to utter shit thanks to Penders. It had to pull lots of bullshit to keep up with the games and only got better near the end once Ian was in control. Fleetway is more or less a similar issue, though usually it was weirder and uglier IMHO, and IDW so far is basically too safe and devoid of ambition (even though we're in a fucking zombie-arc) thanks to SEGA mandates and/or Ian having trouble with ideas.
David Watson
Sonic takes the plot too seriously... probably because of the stupid decision to infect Sonic.
Andrew Ward
Forces-aside (which sucked at it anyways), we haven't had edgy apocalypses in Sonic since fucking forever now. Everything has gotten more plasticine and trying to copy Nintendo ever since '06 and Penders, if anything.
Brayden Torres
The entire comic is like that though given it wants to base itself around Forces.
Wyatt Brown
Mason Lopez
IDW yeah, but that user was implying Sonic is ALWAYS in some apocalyptic Half-Life 2 state, which it most certainly isn't.
Nathan Hernandez
My favorite analogy yet, even if it's >food. Thanks user.
Easton Gonzalez
I love this. It should go on the covers of IDW books.
Cameron Sullivan
That's good to know. Thanks
Asher Hill
no
Brandon Perez
If you are really going to go for Archie, then take this along with you. It will help tons to guide yourself through the issues correctly, and pick any described start point as you wish.
Luis Bennett
Fleetway had the best talent, IDW has the best writing, Archie had the best jokes.
Jaxson Cooper
>IDW has the best writing
Grayson Thompson
Oh shit thats pretty cool!
Carter Garcia
can we get an exploitable
Carson Clark
This isn’t new, ever read Archie or Fleetway?
Benjamin Rodriguez
He’s not the one putting up a mini storytime, dude. What’s with this sudden criticism for IDW and recent Archie sanic, anyway? Some of it has been civil but passive aggressiveness like this seems like people are being hipsters for no reason.
Alexander Butler
He gave you the source man, not everyone’s going spoon feed you.
Zachary Hughes
The best adaption was the Sonic OVA movie.
Luis Adams
fleetway still has the best robotnik outside of aosth
Adrian Brown
Thing is that Sonic Team tries to mimic whatever fad anime at the moment storywise and ape Mario at least in 3D gameplay