Is this what derailed Mark Waid's writing recently?

>write sophisticated adult stories with political and social commentary
When?

Comic fans have always talked shit it's just that with twitter you give them more of an access to the creators. The solution would be to not engage them or just don't have a twitter.

Also Waid is kind of shit when it comes to writing political and sociopolitical issues and he sucks even more when he writes teenagers (see his Legion run with weird shit like "Eat It Grandpa" it reeked of "How do you do, fellow kids?") so his Champions was pretty awful and it felt fake as hell.

Honestly not a lot of comic writers can write teenagers that well I think the only time I've enjoyed comics with a teenage cast was the original New Mutants, New Warriors, and Runaways and it had less to do with the writers really understanding teenagers and more to do with the writers addressing certain things teenagers go through while making a good story out of it.

>February 27, 2018
Go away

so twitter caused his brain to not work right. Why not ignor it altogether and just write the story he had envisioned.

Please read Roger Stern's Dr. Strange run

>write topical book
>worried when people argue over said topics
What the flying fuck did he think was going to happen?

social media is a mistake at least with creators. back then, we have to make do with convetion stories and hear say, now we know exactly what a creator is thinking directly.

from the 80s?

Waid is an outrage culture asshole himself so it's pretty hypocritical that he whines about people being asshats on twitter.

Read the post again very carefully, user.

SOMEONE POST THE STORY ABOUT WAID AND THE PHONE

*THAT* IS WHAT "DERAILED" HIS "CAREER"

NIGGA IS A FUCKING LITERAL PSYCHO

But they shouldn't avoid political issues either

Of course they shouldn't avoid them, that isn't what I am saying at all. There is a certain skill involved in making something political.

Nine times out of ten something fails because the author came into something with the politics in mind and only thinly covered it in their plot. The concept mattered more than how it was executed.

You can have a great idea but if you don't persuade the audience, then what is the point. Preaching to people is not the same as persuading.

It takes a very rare comic book writer who can so openly wear their politics on their sleeve and use it to construct a good idea.

Waid is shit awful at writing teenagers and is so bad at taking criticism that he interfered with a critic's comic that Waid himself challenged the critic to make.

Waid is a great writer for a lot of characters, but he's also a giant asshole

Mark Waid being shit is what derailed his writing recently.

True, but then they shouldn't complain when people don't like what they write either. Any idiot can write political shit. But it takes genius writers and balls to do it well. These people have neither.

Like the guy said, they have too much autism to write it well. THey want to be the next Alan Moore, but they're nowhere near as good as they think.

Plus, they're the ones who started it since day one. They're just mad that it's THEIR ass on the frying pan instead of the ones doing the frying. No sympathy for those who started the fire in the first place.

Fine. But who can write political issues properly currently at Marvel? Even if Yoshida wanted to stop, it's an unavoidable thing right now with all the pressure they get from every direction, especially considering Disney is pushing so much of that shit in the MCU.

>Disney is pushing
Disney is pushing nothing. Disney want to make money. Disney are only expanding out the MCU now because they want to try and make less well known franchises popular with various demographics to make money.

Honestly, I don't think Disney care about Marvel comics as long as it isn't going bust and provides content for merchandise and movies. The problem is less so Disney or the editorial line and more so that these creators want to make their comics have a point and purpose. Consumers also want their purchases to matter.

This translates to politics. The pressure they receive is reactionary by people who are angry they are being political or don't like how things are represented or expressed.

I honestly don't know enough about current Marvel to say who is good enough to do it.

>Was it because my political writing was amateurish, tone-deaf, or even at odds with what I was trying to convey?
>No, the internet was mean to me for no reason.

>sophisticated adult stories with political and social commentary
You mean the comic about freed slaves or whatever that instantly died because of whitesplaining?

This is the same guy who had his editor finish plotting the entire second half of a run, all because the female artist left the book. She left the book, by the way, because he asked her to join him and his girlfriend for a three way, and she was fairly grossed out by it.

Champions was shit since day one, so i would not agree that the internet somehow made him a terrible writer.

>Is this what derailed Mark Waid's writing recently?
That, and what a bunch of meanies on YouTube say about his 'stunning and brave' comics. Probably mad that Mags won't suck his dick too.

Mark waid is a living man baby, his court case is a riot to see how not to act while under a microscope

>be me, have a bunch of jla trades starting with Grant Morrisons run
>its mark Waids run
>only good storyline is tower of Babel
>Jacob's ladder of heavens ladder or whatever it was called was boring as shit
>the next issues about wonder woman in a fairy tale world are all extremely boring
>mfw
>skip his run on jla
I enjoyed kingdom come though

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He was gonna make kingdom come II or something with Alex Ross I think and Alex Ross didnt agree with what Mark Waid wanted and he quit the project other than comprise with Ross

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>I started writing a book about teenage activists.
>By issue #9, I was no longer writing a book about teenage activists.

Maybe it would have helped if you wrote a book about teenage activists that felt like teenagers talking to each other rather than what a boomer thinks that teenagers talk like coupled together with by-the-numbers plotlines straight out of an after school special.

I had the same issue with his Archie run. It was “old man thinks this is how teens sound” while never actually going anywhere

No, no, his books did eventually go somewhere.

The dollar bin.

21st century is 2001 to now, user. Stern's was from the 80's, aka 20th century.

That's pretty much his problem. He's old now and even when he wasn't, lets be honest, he wasn't hip. He was some autist on the spectrum. He wouldn't know how kids were acting if they were doing it in front of him.

He and Waid were already arguing over the direction of the main Kingdom Come mini, I think by the time they were to do Kingdom, Ross didn't want to participate in it and had a different direction from what Waid did with that, as well.

It didn't go anywhere because he quit halfway through and had his editor ghostwrite the rest.

Nice.

>write sophisticated adult stories with political and social commentary
Are we still talking about Champions

I'll do you a favor and spell it out:
It was Waid's Archie run and the artist was Veronica Fish. I'm not running through his feed, but her husband Andy commented on kicking his ass on Twitter. Waid made passing remarks, but I don't even know if his tweets from April/May 2016 would exist anymore.

>both sides are equally bad
not this shit again
The difference between the 2 is the left have the "you're with us or against us" mentality. Why do you think they call every anti sjw thing /pol/

>The difference between the 2 is the left have the "you're with us or against us" mentality.
I mean you're being a bit hypocritical. You're saying the left say "you're with us all against us". But you're expressing the same sentiment.

I never said sides are equally bad. Just that extremes tend to drive things

>Only the left play "with us or against us"
>Wait did that user attack both sides?
>REEE he's against me!!
Not this shit again.

If that's the case his editor should be fired for not knowing how to craft a coherent title. I can't remember anything about that run.

I'm not calling you an sjw or /pol/ nigga i'm just pointing out that one side is obviously worse
I never said the user had to join me, I just wanted to point out that both sides are not equal

There's not gonna be a culture reset next year that happens every 10 years, is there?

>i'm just pointing out that one side is obviously worse
In your opinion. I mean. Both sides have bad people on them who take shit to far. Plenty of /pol/ people act just as bad as SJWs. They disagree all the time and do the same no true Scotsman's fallacy. Just ask who they consider to be white.

Honestly, I think autism drives most of these retards. I'm not saying to be glorious enlightened fence sitter centrist. Sometimes one side is right or wrong depending on the issue at hand.

Just avoid the rhetoric.

They are both equally bad give either of them power and watch them rationalize killing millions of people for the "Greater good". The only reason you think one is worse is because of the amount of power nothing more.

The big difference is /pol/ doesn't have power in politics or with major companies
Ya no shit i'm more considered with the group that actually has power.

>The big difference is /pol/ doesn't have power in politics or with major companies
Depends on which companies. There are plenty of right wing news outlets and companies.

A lot of companies are banging on about being progressive but corporations don't have morality. They want to make money. People at those companies might bang on about politics but the company exists to make money. Broadening appeal is a good way to do this.

Whenever people try to claim one side has dominance in the media etc it ends up really pathetic. For as many left leaning news outlets you have in the states, fox news, breirbart and others are huge too.

Polarisation wouldn't exist if there wasn't two huge sides pushing together. Each side portrays itself as the underdog.

>Just ask who they consider to be white.
Hilariously enough, only SJWs will unironically say "your argument is invalid due to your race."

>There are plenty of right wing news outlets and companies.

Kek go on /pol/. They constantly say certain races can't have arguments or opinions. That their opinions are invalidated because they are a certain race.

>A lot of companies are banging on about being progressive but corporations don't have morality. They want to make money. People at those companies might bang on about politics but the company exists to make money. Broadening appeal is a good way to do this.
And it's a good way to kill off your business
everyone knows the customer you already have is worth more than a potential customer
>Whenever people try to claim one side has dominance in the media etc it ends up really pathetic. For as many left leaning news outlets you have in the states, fox news, breirbart and others are huge too.
You're full of shit now, even moderates know that media is completely biased. also Fox News isn't really right wing. Tucker Carlson wouldn't have been let go if it was.
>Polarisation wouldn't exist if there wasn't two huge sides pushing together. Each side portrays itself as the underdog.
hmm what's more dangerous, random assholes shitposting on the internet or the group trying to give more power to companies, the government and silicon valley

I'm on /pol/ right now.
The only time they do that is when kikes constantly go "FELLOW WHITE PEOPLE, WE SHOULD ALL KILL OURSELVES. BUT NO, NOT ME, I'M NOT WHITE I'M JEWISH LOL"

do you understand what shitposting is? Do you actually take every post on this site at face value?

nigga either lurk more or go back to facebook

>And it's a good way to kill off your business
>everyone knows the customer you already have is worth more than a potential customer
Depends on how it's handle. Intelligent businesses try not to alienate customer base. But a lot of big businesses have mishandled this.

>You're full of shit now, even moderates know that media is completely biased. also Fox News isn't really right wing. Tucker Carlson wouldn't have been let go if it was
Man you have no reading comprehension. Of course media is by it's very nature biased down certain editorial lines. I never said it wasnt. That doesn't mean one side has complete dominance. Every news organisation is bias.

>hmm what's more dangerous, random assholes shitposting on the internet or the group trying to give more power to companies, the government and silicon valley
Of course those things are worse than random people. Are you equating all those things as being "SJWs".

Man you're an idiot. Of course I know it's shitposting. You're taking it way too seriously like an SJW.

>write sophisticated adult stories with political and social commentary
someone didn't read Champions

Kingdom Come

>Joe Quesada says the same thing has happened to many other writers at Marvel.
Ironic how he doesn't point out what his ideas and mandates did to those writers at Marvel, huh? Guess we just shit-talk them because we hate amazing stories.

>Man you have no reading comprehension. Of course media is by it's very nature biased down certain editorial lines. I never said it wasnt. That doesn't mean one side has complete dominance. Every news organisation is bias.
one side has obvious dominance over the narrative, if you can't see that you're either intellectually dishonest or live under a rock
>Of course those things are worse than random people. Are you equating all those things as being "SJWs".
No i'm saying SJW have real power while /pol/ doesn't
you're the one taking shitposting on /pol/ seriously get over yourself

lmfao

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>one side has obvious dominance over the narrative, if you can't see that you're either intellectually dishonest or live under a rock
Because everyone reports the exact same narrative... All the time.. hence why there is no disagreement ever.

>No i'm saying SJW have real power while /pol/ doesn't
If SJWs have so much real power then why is Trump, Boris Johnson, Salvini, Bolsonaro in power? Why do people still have guns? Why is a trade war happening. Brexit.

>you're the one taking shitposting on /pol/ seriously
No I don't, I just find it funny the shit shared on there.

You're honestly more SJW than you think. You seem super offended. Think you're fighting against the evil super dominant SJW "matriarchy" stamping it's boot down on you so you can pretend to be the shit posting underdog.

My original assessment is still correct. Both sides are pathetic autists. SJWs whine about capitalism and patriarchy being in control and having power. Then you whine about SJWs having power.

Oh boo hoo.

didn't this guy try to blacklist a guy from the industry because he didn't agree with him politically

>Because everyone reports the exact same narrative... All the time.. hence why there is no disagreement ever.
or maybe because 6 corporations control 90% of all media
>If SJWs have so much real power then why is Trump, Boris Johnson, Salvini, Bolsonaro in power? Why do people still have guns? Why is a trade war happening. Brexit.
because the left is losing now. They still have more power but it's slowing down thanks to all their bad ideas
>No I don't, I just find it funny the shit shared on there.
then why did you make a post taking it seriously?>You're honestly more SJW than you think. You seem super offended. Think you're fighting against the evil super dominant SJW "matriarchy" stamping it's boot down on you so you can pretend to be the shit posting underdog.
and now the strawman comes out. Look if you can't debate on actual points then don't try.
But I guess it's the only way to defend that fragile ego.
>My original assessment is still correct. Both sides are pathetic autists. SJWs whine about capitalism and patriarchy being in control and having power. Then you whine about SJWs having power.
I never said both sides weren't shit, I said one side is obviously worse than the other

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>Because everyone reports the exact same narrative... All the time.. hence why there is no disagreement ever.
In regards to the MSM?
Unironically, yes.
>If SJWs have so much real power then why is Trump, Boris Johnson, Salvini, Bolsonaro in power? Why do people still have guns? Why is a trade war happening. Brexit.
Because in case you haven't noticed, the MSM is nothing more than twisted propaganda that intentionally reports a blatantly distorted version of reality.
You may as well be asking "BUT TRUMP CAN'T POSSIBLY BE PRESIDENT, THE MEDIA TOLD ME HE ONLY HAD A 0.5% CHANCE OF WINNING!"

>and now the strawman comes out
Pot calling the kettle black. You've been strawmanning this entire time just because you got offended that someone criticised both sides.

You haven't debated on any points in good faith. Only continued to say SJWs have power with no proof aside from conjecture.

Both sides have backers and bias media and companies. One side is not any worse than the other, not when you have each side engaged in forms of violence.

Not him, but you're clearly just a retarded SJW, not a "le enlightened centrist". You're doing a pretty shit job at pretending.

And now we move on to personal insults because he dared insult you alt-righters. Talk about irony.

>Pot calling the kettle black. You've been strawmanning this entire time just because you got offended that someone criticised both sides.
how and when, please link the post were I strawmanned you
>you got offended
you're really going with that strawman aren't you
>You haven't debated on any points in good faith.
except I have been doing so this entire time, not my fault you can't counter my points
>Only continued to say SJWs have power with no proof aside from conjecture.
I really don't need to prove something that is obvious to everyone. This is why i'm calling you intellectually dishonest.
If you want proof just watch the news for 5 min or read about all the pro lgbt shit in everything
>Both sides have backers and bias media and companies.
and one side has a lot more
>One side is not any worse than the other, not when you have each side engaged in forms of violence.
I think the side that is committing more violence and trying to censor everything is a bigger problem

>some one insulted me
>he must be alt right
wow you weren't a centrist, who could have guessed

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How's the lawsuit going?
>Mark Waid is represented by Mark Zaid

what the fuck

between dr strange and history of the marvel u this is the most i've seen Yea Forums like waid since like his Daredevil first started

Mark Waid thread?

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Only SJWs unironically say "WHATEVER IT IS I THINK YOU ARE IS JUST AS BAD AS WE ARE!"
There is plenty of things you can criticize "the right" about, but SJWs can't come up with anything. They just go "You know that criticism you made against us? Well NO, YOU!", and 99% of the time it doesn't even fit.

Put it this way. Shit like Jawbreakers or whatever Diversity and Comics, etc are all independents. The Alt Right's stuff are mainly indies that rely on crowdfunding or Patreon. Stuff that Mark Waid and co are putting out? They're using the Marvel name for crying out loud. It's pretty obvious who is wielding the most power here.

Is it really that hard to understand that people just want a teen superhero book where they punch bad people and deal with their hormones? Trying to have teen heroes tackling dicey international issues is stupid because even grown up heroes fuck that shit up. And worst all half the time they were worried about their brand, like that mattered more than what they did. Zub did his best and managed to make the book much, much better but he fucked up by having too many characters and subplots going on.

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meanwhile Oda

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>caring about twitter opinions
>cant write well enough social issues.
He really went into a writersexhaustion?

>does Twitter destroy creativity
Twitter rots brains and destroys intelligence, then civilisation.

why do sjws always act as if their voices are super unique and needs to be heard even through their propaganda about mass immigration, how all white men must be destroyed, feminism, trannies and race mixing has been blasted by every mega corp. for 5 years now?

and this is why manga still sale and western comics don't

Has Waid lost the lawsuit yet?

Last I heard his legal team were still trying to move the case or something.

Oda is one of those special people who's utterly fucking barmy and yet at the same time some kind of absolute genius.

Just look at his most recent issue for example and you'll be utterly baffled at how many layers there are to his Benkei reference alone.

Waid is a fraud when it comes to the “ally” stuff he positions himself as. This is the same guy who half-assed two thirds of a run because an artist wouldn’t sleep with him, and the same guy that told a woman “if you were a man I’d punch you” at a comic con panel.

Mark Waid is a joke, but apparently virtue signaling on twitter is the only way to get a writing deal with marvel these days so it's hard to blame a guy for whoring himself out a little.

His Doctor Strange run is alright when you compare it to what else marvel is putting out these days.

champions was shit from issue one which ended with all the heroes standing amoung dead bodies and female slaves while checking what twitter was saying about them. if any actual teens read the book, which i doubt, they have every right to be offended.

it's not as bad as waid's archie tho.

I'm more surprised he has/had a girlfriend.

>it's not as bad as waid's archie tho.
That just felt..heartless, right? Like deaf to what teens sound like while simultaneously getting out of hand for no reason.

>do as I say, not as I do
democRATS in a nutshell

>I got gun-shy about social issues, because the hammer came down every time"

IE - all that happened was you received online criticism of your writing.

Lets not engage in hyperbole, Mr Waid, all that happened with the "hammer" coming down is that you tackled tough issues and found the debates were lively. There were complaints and there was constructive criticism but your fragile old ego can't handle people being mean to you online.

Seems to be the case for most 1) creative-types and 2) older-types who didn't grow up with social media. When your formative days were at a time when the only criticism could come from someone being angry enough to sit down and write an actual letter to Marvel, well, you didn't see many of those because it wasn't worth the angry person's time - they just stopped buying your comic. You've grown up in a sheltered bubble, an echo chamber where the only voices you allowed near you were voices of praise. And now, twitter is *terrifying* to you.

What a fragile little man-baby Waid must be, it must be truly astounding to witness in person.

Had. At the time he was with comic shop owner Christy Blanch. He later screwed her when he bounced and left her with the store’s debt.

>Lets not engage in hyperbole, Mr Waid, all that happened with the "hammer" coming down is that you tackled tough issues and found the debates were lively. There were complaints and there was constructive criticism but your fragile old ego can't handle people being mean to you online.

Mark Waid isn't in this thread. He can't read what you're writing. You are talking to yourself.

a big part of archie's appeal to me is how drama free and friendly it is. waid went in the opposite direction and did nothing of value with it. also his hate boner for reggie is weird.

As a decent human being, I'm disgusted by his lack of character....however, as a rational incel I gotta say that's pretty f*ckin based.

Heh. SJWs turn out to be projectionists when they call others incels after all.

This is all I came here to say, and I see others already did, so I'm peacing out after boosting it. Way too many arguments in bad faith in here and dumbass right wing kids still mad about their culture war here to actually give a fuck and read the good stuff out there.

huh? wat u mean?

Not defending Waid, but to be fair, he only dialogued most of that run. His editor plotted the last 20 issues.

are you not a fan of afterlife/sabrina?
>inb4 "they never come out"

Not yet, both parties have agreed to some hard deadlines though, this could go well into 2021. Either way it's not looking good for Waid and I'm amazed he won't just push for a settlement.

>write sophisticated adult stories with political and social commentary
Uh, he exclusively writes capeshit.

Kek

He also wrote that one book about a black superhuman in the south. It wasn't exactly capeshit, it was just shit and a weird view of racism through a middle-aged white dude's lens.

Didn't he get shat on by actual black people for that?

He also dated Devin Grayson for a bit.
>tfw Grayson probably forced Waid to cosplay as Nightwing during sex.

>Devin Grayson
Grayson could do better than Waid. I mean, if she wasn't a total psycho for his imaginary husbando.

This is the man who sent the Black Wreath, after all. His character is very lacking.

I love the champions his run made them feel like they were the teen titans. He even found a good use for teen Scot. He would have been a interesting boyfriend for Kamala. But current run feels more like they are copying young justice. Plus the while plot of Kamala and Viv dying was kind if dumb. I know it's to set up other shit. But feels like they just wanted extra angst for Bwarn and Miles. Which they never even mention in his book. It's funny how often other writers Remeber their charecter is on a team. When shit goes down in Jersey Kamala never calls in the champions she is team leader.

Not sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised. I’m not black and I hated it.

Waid: Waaaaaah nobody liked my weak superhero stories in a superhero book. Why weren't they more receptive of my social conditioning!?

This just sounds like having thin skin. Write whatever you want and screw everyone else. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, too bad.

>Devin "It's not rape, it's just nonconsensual sex" Grayson

Two awful people who deserve each other.

explain?

Devin "women can't rape men" Grayson

I like them but I consider them their own thing. Loved the predator crossover too. My complaint is that they got rid of comedy from the main series. I haven't checked out the current jughead tho.

She actually apologized for that... 10 years later, after spending a decade defending her statements in interviews. Too bad she never put that much effort into improving her writing. She's always been Cullen Bunn tier.

his most recent daredevil run was really good. And dr strange is great. Other than that, only those two avengers mini series and iron man have any good and the rest is trash.

highly recommend the current time police
no one draws jughead better than derek charm

I'll check it out. I dug the original time police stuff.

Someone posted the story image before, but I guess it was deleted for some reason. Anyone else have it?

Honestly I've liked pretty much everything he's put out except for that champions run

Epilogue to that story is him having a convention handler give her back his keys to her car