Cartoon concept

This is a bastardization of an old concept about free will. No person becomes socialized without the influence of the society around them, and inevitably artists will have pre existing influences. The difference between artists who actually do make original things and hacks who use this argument unironically to excuse themselves to make derivative lazy work is that you can choose to base your work off REAL things and the real world around you that no one has ellaborated on yet. You can choose to be original by just becoming literate about things besides art itself. Wether its good art is beside the point, but usually when you write about real things that matter to you there's genuine depth to be mined from those experiences. Moby Dick isn't a book that could've been made by someone who huffed art farts all day.

user, every part of your sentence is retarded.

>when you do something original and it fails
by what margin? Financially, artistically, what the fuck are you talking about? Original work comes out and succeeds as often as unoriginal work does financially speaking, if you're trying to equate your run of the mill work of art to giant properties that're basically on a completely different playing field, you're fucking retarded. Shit, the videogame industry's come out with original concepts for 20 years and has overall eclipsed the movie market, so what the fuck are you basing this judgement off of?

>it proves the other camp right
what other camp, there isn't a dedicated art movement of people going out of their way to be unoriginal. You're projecting some retarded partisan tribalism to something where it doesn't even exist.

I’m so tired of “fairy tales but edgy”, there are honestly more of those these days than fairy tales played straight.
I’m also fed up with “superheroes bad”; we’ve had Watchmen, Red Son, Brightburn, Injustice, the Boys, etc. that’s more than enough. Superheroes are a tired genre in general, pretty much every permutation of the concept has already been explored.
“Cartoon character but in the real world” was really popular in the 2000s for some reason.

What are other things that plebs think are original and innovative but are actually overplayed?

>children get sent to a magical world
>the world is boring as fuck

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Jojo references, unironically.
Indie animators keep putting them in every anime reference they pull and at this point its as played out as DBZ and Sailor moon. Jojo's every ironic weeb's first pull for "super obscure show you guys wouldn't know about".

It's incredible with the amount of content that comes out worldwide in everything from games, books, movies, shows, cartoons, etc. people still find a way to bitch about "stagnation" or "overused tropes".

When was there a Mac Tonight cartoon?

Bad take. People WOULD bitch more about things being similar if there's more stuff coming out in general.

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There is, if you don't just limit your scope to whatever a single mainline company is pumping out.

>It's incredible with the amount of content that comes out worldwide in everything from games, books, movies, shows, cartoons, etc. people still find a way to bitch about "stagnation" or "overused tropes".
The two are directly related, actually. We’re experiencing a watering down of content; sure there’s more of it than there’s ever been, but individual works are usually rushed and sloppy because the demand is so high.
Have you seen the credits for the typical Disney franchise movie? hundreds of people work on them, they’re pretty much an assembly line product now.

Well...I know no one is gonna (you) this post but might as well...as a creative, I tried so hard in the past in finding new interesting ideas but they always fail. As a test, find me any sort of media that has this one idea:

>twins who are polar oppsites
>Sun and moon motif
>go to a DreamWorld full of stuffed animals at night
> transform into super heroes to fight off nightmares

That might be true limited in just mainstream America, but broaden out to content from other countries (Both their mainstream, independent, and web content fields), if a person is not able to find at least five minimum of things to get excited about per year, they're not looking very hard.

The problem is that people just want Disney or Netflix to scoop the stuff they like into their mouths instead of seeking it out on their own.

Hell, for animation alone, people just have to google up what some animation festivals are playing and then see if those shorts/films are available online to watch and they can have a shit ton of cool and original things to look forward to.

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Moby Dick was still derivative of old Man VS Nature stories that were popular at the time, and of fables like St George and the Dragon. Whaling was also an occupation that was very romanticized at the time, and seen as adventurous and badass. Young men would be inspired by tales of men slaying sea monsters with only wit and iron. They'd seek it out, only to find leathery old sailors, grim conditions, and cruel butchery of giant helpless animals that scream for days, punctuated by vast stretches of absolutely nothing.

So Moby Dick was not totally original

You know literally every goddamn European-Styled Fantasy is derivative of folk tales/Tolkien, right?

Using japanese yokai, or any of the basic european folklore creatures
>pixies
>dragons
>unicorns
etc

I don't see many folks use the more obsurce yokai like hone onna or those multiple eyed critters outside of anime.

Every enjoyable story has been told. So we just retell old stories with twist. If there are stories yet to be told it's because they are boring ones

>outside of anime
Exactly, japan has already done everything and more with them.
They've done almost everything with a bunch of european folklore creatures too to be fair.

There's a difference between "not totally original" and "not original."

Sounds like my first marriage.

Don't get me wrong, I love yokai but there's nothing new or orginal about it especially if you know your way around anime.

Yeah that's what I was saying, yokai and european folklore creatures are in everything lol
Weird north and south american folklore creatures are so underused though.

Time Travel
Whether it be localised to the setting or Major time period based

Can you please not talk like a fag?

>you can't write a story with aliens
>you can't write a story with fairies
>you can't write a story with ghosts
That's some retarded shit, user.

That's not what OP is saying.
OP is complaining about things like Twilight, Soul Eater and the Green Lantern. Things like Zim, Mushishi and Death's Head are fun because they tell their own stories using archetypes instead of trying to redefine an archetype into a superficially altered container and focusing the writing on your totally super original (not) premise.

Shrek 1 and 2(and ONLY 1 and 2) were the only good ones.
Everyone else is just a wannabe.

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Green Lantern didn't steal anything from pop culture, though, it was cribbing notes from a book no one read.

That's not the point, and I mean then modern, post-Johns GL. It's that same idea of taking something, applying a bunch of new rules, acting like that alone somehow makes it new and fresh, and then focusing on that internal logic. Building your story from a label instead of an idea.

what cartoon is it anyway?

Thank god OP is here to tell us what is and isn’t acceptable fiction.

what the fuck did Soul Eater steal from
the fuck did post Johns GL steal from

are you talking out your ass or something

Shut up and die Clarste, your life is a drain.

All it sounds like is he hates people being unoriginal and lazy.

So his issue is it comes with a twist? Because that's even stupider.

No, he's fine with that as long as they adhere to established pop culture lore. Which is fucking stupid.

Yeah and it’s awesome that someone as smart as him is here to tell us exactly which things are unoriginal and lazy

because people know what fairies, aliens, ghosts, robots, demons, angels etc ARE. you aren't going to find success with something 'completely original' because there's nothing an audience can relate it to. even superheroes have origins elsewhere - batman is basically a makeshift vampire, superman is space hercules/jesus, etc.

Adorable.

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>batman is basically a makeshift vampire
???
He was an amalgam of various pulp heroes

>what the fuck did Soul Eater steal from
Oh a fuckload, where do you wanna start?
Even putting aside the clear style inspirations and the fact that it was riding the battle school trend that was picking up via Harry Potter, you can watch Ohkubo filch from Arakawa in real time by lining up chapter publication dates. Dude started outright copying her character art.

None of that matters though, because OP never mentioned stealing. Soul Eater is a good example because it takes popular pop culture spooks and applies them to it's own internal logic system (madness), flopping around to justify a plot around this system instead of actually having a story, to the point the last few years were one long battle.

I worry for Yea Forums with how stupid some posters are.
OP says that despite being the go to for "creative new series," simply taking a pop culture archetype and adding some flimsy changes and dictating a bunch of rules and a framework to place it in isn't actually creative. It's the most basic bitch thing you can do. The problem is media using this completely standard format as the premise itself instead of a tool. I used Zim and Mushishi as examples because they both take stock ideas and extrapolate and rework them, but that's in service to the idea. Zim's Irken are generally the opposite of the ayy lmao stereotype and have ranks and consistent tech and backstory, but the core premise is a Spy vs Spy style competing deutragonist sci-fi horror comedy. Ushishi gives a catch all classification for ghosts/yokai/etc (mushi), plays groundwork for them and rules, etc, but the story itself is a historical fiction adventure anthology.
Stuff like Soul Eater and Twilight pull the "X but Y and let me explain how" card and have a core idea setting them in motion (action, romance), but aren't actually creative. They go through the beats with the occasional surface level weirdness, relying on the gimmick alone to give it identity.

>children sent to magical world
>magical world has magic versions of modern technology like smartphones
>they still have to go to school but their teacher has goat legs or something

>isn't actually creative
Why not? Who made you the arbiter of creativity?

>I'm not saying that's a bad idea in an of itself, but this has to be the single most unoriginal thing you can do for animation specifically

It seems unoriginal in words, but Kimetsu no Yaiba is just a bunch of existing Japanese folktales and genre tropes, and it still manages to be great in execution. I think Westerners may have more trouble making good shit based on our folk lore because we've gotten out of touch with it.

I agree, and I think the problem is people thinking that folk tales especially were a "one note idea."

There's so much great imaginative stuff out there that people can actually learn from. But instead they just riff on the most whitebread interpretation of these cultural concepts, and they think adding """clever""" gags is really subversive and creative.

>there are honestly more of those these days than fairy tales played straight.
It's especially dumb because people can do fresh, great stories with the fairy tale or high fantasy style, but instead people throw that out in favor of postmodernism, which is actually way more limiting and way, way more overused.

Name 5 examples from this decade if a cartoom doing this.

>being influenced by other stories is the same as the shallow postmodern hackery OP was talking about

>sharing an opinion and critiquing things makes you an asshole
Go back to your hugbox, consumer.

>postmodernism
Im curious as to what you think is “postmodern” about edgy fairy tales, bad superheroes, etc

> transform into super heroes to fight off nightmares

The Nightmare on Elm Street game for the NES did this, but enough time has totally passed.

Pretty much anything that has twins as the main characters will make them opposites.

>as a creative, I tried so hard in the past in finding new interesting ideas but they always fail
Are you sure you're not just shit as a creative? Like here's every concept I'm sitting on
>read a ton of self insert/isekai/mary sue dreck online, figure out exactly why they grate, and make a Nuzlocke/let's play comic following one. Originally based on a funny moment in Geneforge I wanted to make a comic about. Main character's personality is made up from very disparate parts (pastiche of self inserts, how people act in video games, mine) and as such starts insane and gets worse. Planned for them to feel like SF Debris' take on Captain Janeway- outwardly a straight good guy but completely deranged on any closer inspection.
>that one panel in Girl Genius that showed the crew of a steam tank going bandit and pillaging/adventuring/fleeing their way across war-torn magitek Europe. Say the boiler is rugged enough to run on firewood and brack water and it basically writes itself.
>Warhammer 40,000 explorator fleet finds Gor and a stranded Sister of Battle, now Repentia, forms an army to do... something, probably kill the aliens running the show and subjugate the planet
that one's definitely on infinite hiatus; the more I think about it the less sense it makes- Warhammer ships can't land and Gor has a planetary network to detect and burn away advanced technology (VERY bad news if you're in power armor!) but whatever, man- a miles long Dauntless class crashing to earth wreathed in blue alien fire is cool
>write down every good idea from every story about dream lands
>that one scene in Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath where the ghouls helping Randolph Carter through a very scary dungeon they don't own break off and try to head back home overland through human lands, hoping to charter a ship. Ghouls can't blend into human society and given what they're usually described like no one would want them to, so that's an adventure and a half

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>Exactly, japan has already done everything and more with them.
?
Not in western markets.

Right Now Kapow. It's like Mad, but with actual jokes.
youtube.com/watch?v=a3ZcUf60_hM

He seems smart, I'll vouch for him

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>look up right now kapow on rule34 hoping to find some juicy pineapples and sweet candy coochie
>it’s all just moonman and ice cream guy getting their asses ravaged
Who fucking makes such vile shit

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>They go through the beats with the occasional surface level weirdness, relying on the gimmick alone to give it identity.

Nobody, and I only used those examples because I think that's what OP means. If you think Twilight is actually creative that's cool, I just wanted to explain the difference and why OP is (probably) frustrated.