Let's post or tell terrible stories that happened in the Yea Forums industry

Shut up Greenblatt

>work in the industry
>not expecting precisely this
This guy is a retard.

I’m just confused why someone would hate him for talking shit on the animation industry. That’s kinda what we do here all the time. I thought we were mad at people inside the industry who defend it out of fear of getting blacklisted.

Nickelodeon and Viacom seem to be pure, raw evil. For instance, what about the thing where how they missed Adventure Time, and how ever since then, Nickelodeon takes the rights to any given pilots, so that once a creator's tried pitching to them they can't reuse their idea with other networks?

Workaround: Pitch your show to Nick the very last

I'll never forgive them for Camp Weedonwantcha
youtu.be/XmGx8TIShtk

Source on this? I'd hate for this to mean we won't ever see animated Harpy Gee again. Aunt Phyllis and Planet Panic were also really good.

this board has the highest amount of unironic sjw
yes it's Yea Forumsmblr

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>Nickelodeon takes the rights to any given pilots, so that once a creator's tried pitching to them they can't reuse their idea with other networks?
This is how it works for ALL networks. Nick and Viacom isn't unique in that regard.

>because it's to be expected it's good or even acceptable
You're the retard here.

pando.com/2014/07/07/revealed-court-docs-show-role-of-pixar-and-dreamworks-animation-in-silicon-valley-wage-fixing-cartel/
TL;DR Both Pixar and Dreamworks are involved in wage fixing and lobbying, with Katzenberg as one of the top donors.

Bump

Brianne retained the rights to the comic.

But they are extreme about this they produce pilots that never air just to keep that stranglehold.

Being surprised that people on Yea Forums use tumblr is like being surprised that people on Yea Forums use pixiv

Poor Greenblatt.

Talented guy, worked on a lot of great stuff and ALWAYS gets shit on.

You can't excuse creators being retarded in this though. "Yeah make a pilot with no guarantee it will get turned into a series and then sign over all rights to it regardless if if we decide to move forward or not"

Why is he being a crybaby? Shows like Catscrath and El Tigre had less episodes, yet the creators doesn't whine about it

I'm struggling to find an interview with Van Partible. He talks about how when season 2 of Johnny Bravo got approved, he was not asked to join because he did not have enough experience as a showrunner. He spent the next few years looking for odd jobs and small art gigs. Eventually made his way to working at a hotel where he got a 25 cent raise and his boss jokingly went "Ka-ching!" and that's when he knew he had to quit and went back to CN to pitch another show. They said they weren't interested, but wanted to know if he was available to run season 4 of Johnny Bravo.

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Catscratch and El Tigre actually aired.

why are you assuming theyre retarded rather than assuming they had no choice

>Your own original work
>No choice
Get a lawyer and walk if you don't like the deal. Nick can't fucking strong arm you into giving up something you created unless you sign on the dotted line. Yeah these companies make a business out of fucking creators but everyone knows that so why would you walk into a meeting expecting them to play softball and not be in your guard.

Him and David Feiss hasn't made anything noteworthy after their CN shows ended

Not everyone can be blessed enough to get Alex Hirsch 10-show deals on Netflix after their one lucky strike.

look its the guy who made that show, what was it? flapjack or something

Because Disney, WB, Nick, CN, they all play the same game. Where else are you going to go with your animated series pitch?

>they're all scum so that makes it ok

Because unlike those, by the time Harvey Beaks came and went, creators stopped going to positivity echo chambers like Toonzone, and instead dabbled in Yea Forums which is more of a negativity echo chamber especially toward Nickelodeon and Spongebob (the franchise itself, not the classic seasons), where he was thus influenced into thinking he was screwed over rather than having just produced an unremarkable (not bad, just unremarkable) show at a time where at least every one of the major networks had one or two hits. Then he retardedly spoke out against Nick which essentially got him blacklisted because other employers look at that behavior and realize he'll do the same to them if his next idea flops.

I'm going to assume you are retarded or a corporate boot-licker.

Fund it yourself. Save up enough money to product an animated pilot on a modest budget. Get a loan. Do commissions. Do a Kickstarter. File it as being part of your own studio production so you can retain full-rights. A production company does not have to be a giant place, it can just be a name as long as the project is registered with it. Start a Patreon/Kickstarter to fund a full mini-series the way Bee & Puppycat did, except actually manage the money well.

Everyone is under the impression that somehow their idea is not "valid" unless it has the CartoonNetwork logo slapped on it. Or it's not "valid" unless it's this big, grand, scheme idea like Steven Universe that has a bunch of Broadway singers and famous voice actors attached to it.

What the fuck is wrong with just making your own Homestar Runner? Why aren't people learning from stuff like Homestuck and Undertale that showcases you don't need studio approval to just make something?

AND got better advertisement! Well, El Tigre did anyway.

Put some effort into your post rather than shitting up the thread with strawmen. If anything you're implying because all companies are shitty it's just an inevitability that creators have to accept getting fucked when outlines other avenues. Nobody is siding with Nick here but it's also fucking retard to sign away everything you made because you have zero faith in your creation and zero business sense. When you're literally told they're not going to guarantee you they pick it up but they still want you to sign over the rights in what retard's brain does that not raise red flags.

Imagine being this bitter over a cartoon, Nick will never hire him after this

Not other anons, but it's not about signing away rights. Time and time again, there are stories from Craig McCracken and Greenblatt and Hirsch and whoever who say they're having good conversations and a good relationship with the higher-ups, only to get fucked over unannounced by some decision made that they were not involved in.

There's countless stories of, "Everything seemed great, they gave us what we wanted and allowed us to go through with our creative vision. Then out of nowhere, just pulled the plug and wouldn't tell us why". It happened with Jhonen Vasquez's "Very Important House". Him and whoever he was communicating with were doing great until one day, they just canned the project out of nowhere.

Personally, I have seen far more dirt and dissatisfaction from multiple people regarding Nickelodeon and Viacom than either Disney or CN. There's the affair with Hillenburg's death and the Sponegbob spinoff, Making Fiends, what the other user said about Jhonen Vasqez, the stuff about how they badly treated the Jimmy Neutron staff, this entire thing about pilots in particular, and other reading about the behavior of Viacom (including on Yea Forums) that makes them in particular stick out amongst the companies as the worst.

>implying any person would want to work under Nick

That's literally been Nick's MO since they were founded: Being as cheap as humanly possible. Why do you think they had so damn many one-room gameshows in the early 90s?

The only people Nick truly like are Klasky and Csupo, rest or the creators had their shows treated like dogshit or ignored at worst like Kablam

I'll never disagree that these companies aren't shitty I just also think if you're willing to put ownership of your creation on the line don't be surprised if you lose it. Never trust a suit.

Why is it that Nick gives some of the highest budgets to their cartoons of any network then? Rugrats, Invader ZIM, and Avatar were expensive as fuck to make.

>El Tigre
Pretty sure Jorge Gutiérrez has subtlety tweeted about his negative experience at Nick multiple times

Because they can afford to spend money on the early nicktoons (save Doug, which was pretty low budget) because they could produce shows like Clarissa Explains it All, Pete and Pete, and Roundhouse for next to nothing. The later Nicktoons had much higher budgets because Nick was riding high off the Spongebob and post-revival Rugrats money. Even during that time period, they were still pumping out dirt cheap live-action shows to fill the rest of the their schedule.

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Shame the execs didn't like it. I think PPG Movie is Craig's masterpiece and just a solid superhero movie in general, even without someone knowing what PPG is.

This thread makes me wonder. Why don't more animators and webcomic writers self publish? Hundreds of indie games made by small teams to single people come out every day. Some of the downright gaming masterpieces of the last decade have been small team or single man indie projects. But what has indie animation produced? Bee and Puppycat?

Money and time, I can only assume.

It's easier to program a full puzzle game that you can play for hours and hours in a short amount of time with little budget than it is to make animation entertainment.

A person can spend months playing Angry Birds, but can binge-watch all of The Simpsons in a week. And that show is made over the course of 20+ years.

Good animation is costly, backbreaking, and time consuming to produce.

Harvey Beaks wasn't bad, just not what children wanted to watch

It shouldn't be legal to purchase exclusive rights to a product if you won't produce the product.

Animation’s a spectacle compared to gameplay being more of a cycle of satisfaction. Not to say game making is easy, but things like flappy bird are far more successful financially than any indie cartoon.

Agreed. But they can. And people who are pitching their creations should really think on this fact before signing away their creations.

Dont care what children wanted to watch. I watched it. It was bad

Most cable networks operate like this. If the rumors are true about thundercats 2011 and lego chima, then CN has been doing this for a while as well. And it makes sense. Cable subscribers actually went down for the first time ...ever just a year or two ago. I imagine part of that is the subscription wasn't worth it when a very small netflix subscription fee was so much cheaper. Of course that'll change soon too, but more importantly, netflix took a bite out of their subscription base. People prefer the convenience of streaming and on demand. So obviously cutting costs across the board is preferable to keep themselves afloat.

Every network thinks they can put out their own streaming service and people will be willing to subscribe to it now, without realizing that Netflix took off because it had pretty much everything, not just one channel's programming. This is just going to result in what is effectively a return to cable, but where every individual channel costs a full service fee. This is the worst outcome for entertainment. Only Disney could really get away with it because they also basically own everything. Why are executives so fucking stupid? Their minds are completely divorced from reality and it doesn't make sense that they'd end up with their positions without having any fucking idea how things in their field work.

>Why are executives so fucking stupid?
Because they saw netflix's success and thought, "hey, we can do that too and we'll most certainly be just as successful," not realizing that for the exact reasons you stated that's not going to work.
It really is a shitty situation, and unfortunately when they inevitably fail, they'll blame everyone but themselves and maybe even get a bailout.

not a lot of 90s creators have besides genndy and craig mccracken it seems.

And most of Gennedy's projects got cancelled or canned. Craig is the only one who has had consistent success.

true

Am I literally Patrick Bateman if I don't understand what's wrong with this?

Of course the head of a network is going to be excited they got a big name that they can run. That's how syndicated television works. Nick is a syndication network, like 99% of all cable networks. Who gives a shit, and why do you?

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Not really no, but going up to the teams making your own original content and bragging about buying a cheap as shit license to run with no cost doesn't exactly convey the best message

But why is the head of a company telling production teams this as if the artists give a shit about a studio's finances?

It's like performing classical music at a football game. Just because people are booing you doesn't mean it's bad, it means you're appealing to the wrong crowd. The artists don't want to hear how you don't give a shit about whether a product is good or bad, just how cheap you got it.

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*ahem*
RULEZ OF NATURRRRRE!!

>comedy is for children
>serious business is for adults
That's just making stupid assumptions.

Animation will always, always be the most costly and time-consuming medium. It also requires a team of an artistically talented workforce to help produce the same quality of work as it's creator because they are putting their work into the same product. Maybe 3D modeling will eventually be transferable to 2D better in the future or help-tools for short-cuts in the future. As of now, 2D animation is an art not easily produced on a small scale without complete dedication and commitment for the craft.

Employees should care about the financial health of their company. Besides their ability to make money from little investment means they have more money to produce other stuff. It's like artsy directors bitching about blockbusters while getting produced by the same studios.

>Animation will always, always be the most costly and time-consuming medium.
What? A lot of games are literally animation work or the equivalent for the art...and then the entire rest of making a game.

>What? A lot of games are literally animation work or the equivalent for the art
Yeah, on a repetitive scale.

No they shouldn't, they should only care about financial situation regarding their own project. They don't give a shit what third-party program the network acquired for cheap anymore than they care about the revenue from Nickelodeon's amusement parks or how well the merchandise is doing for a show they don't work on.

A hand-painted walk cycle in a video game can be re-used the entire game while a walk cycle in a TV show cannot.

I mean that's true but let's also not pretend that most western animation doesn't cut corners and do things on the cheap whenever possible. We're living in the era of the CalArts meme after all.

This

You can make the example on budget cartoons by Hanna Barbara or Filmation did the same thing. Yet they still required original content for the rest of the story. Yet video games with animated sprites are going to be used repetitively throughout the entire length of the game. It is the same quality as true 2D animation but not on the same level as a unique story that requires no two images to be the same throughout the product.

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Japanese animation famously cuts corners and does things on the cheap whenever possible. The difference is that they know how to do it in a way that still looks ok (cut to beautiful backgrounds while characters are speaking to save animating the mouth flaps, lots of static shots with pans or zooms to simulate movement, low frame rates where they can get away with it, and saving the budget to make sure one pivotal scene looks really really good)

>there_can_be_only_one.webm

The difference is they cut corners for a 25-episode order while a video game is just the one video game that re-uses assets to pad out an 8-hour video game.

You can play Skullgirls for weeks to months on end. Animation has to keep doing new shit with new scripts, new sequences, new backgrounds, etc if they want to keep the public's interest.

Nice vaporware.

That's like your opinion man. Knowing about the general financial status of the company you work for means you can negotiate budget for your own project without sounding like a jackass whose head is stuck in the clouds. Knowledge is power.

Except you're never going to have full access and knowledge to the entire finances of Nickelodeon since it's so massive. So giving a shit that they acquired some other IP for cheap is not power or knowledge. It's just useless information that the executive wants to brag about to the wrong crowd.

>Except you're never going to have full access and knowledge to the entire finances of Nickelodeon since it's so massive
Worse than that, media conglomerates keep multiple books on purpose to manipulate stock and tax information. It's why overseas animation studios are allowed to run a separate account for their budget, there's always 'a little wriggle room' when corporate auditors translate foreign expenditure into domestic costs.

At least you can make an educated guess and use that bit of information you have.

No you fucking can't. That's like saying you know what a single employee gets paid, therefore you can make an "educated guess" what everyone on staff gets paid.

>only Disney could really get away it
Could they really? I know Disney’s really big, but after the new Clone Wars episodes and Mandalorian drop, will people really bother keeping their subscriptions (especially considering the rather small selection they’re apparently starting out with) just to watch stuff they could get on home video?
If anything, HBO/Warner will probably be the big winners of streaming, considering HBO’s already respectable subscription size + image of producing high quality content + Warner owning one of the largest media libraries

>image of producing high quality content

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Chernobyl was acclaimed, yes?

Chernobyl was a disaster, user.