Is he right? Is this the age of the average DCfag?

Is he right? Is this the age of the average DCfag?

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>six years ago
If anything the last six years have probably pushed that number up past those additional six years even

Ink and Zoom so DC has changed policies

Wow! 40 whole five-year-olds? I didn't expect readership was that high.

>I didn't expect readership was that high.
it isn't, moron. They clearly wrote four five-year-olds.

>Wow! 40 whole five-year-olds? I didn't expect readership was that high.

Probably more accurate. Very few 45 year olds give a shit about comics.

Both Marvel and DC have been publishing comics for adults for nearly 4 decades.

What's going to happen when Marvel and DC get shuttered as active publishers? Because that's almost inevitable at this point.

Yeah but I thought they'd be my age like 18 to early 20s.

First of all they should just say adults.
Secondly if they did publish comics for that age demo than they'd allow adult.
You can't show a titty.

Remember when it used to have blood and tits but the content under it was good? Now we have neither

What you think every 5 years there's a different generation of people in their early 20s picking up cape comics and dropping them 5 years later?

It's the same with cartoons or Young adult fiction. There's a target age and people age out of it.

>Jim Lee is like...the golden boy of comic artists right now.
What is this, 1997?

Yeah but why the fuck would you think cape comics are specifically aimed at young adults? They're aimed at stupid adults, that's not the same thing.

I will be 45 in 19 years and even then I don't think I am going to want to read modern capeshit.

>1997
try 1991

Right, by '97 McFarlane was that guy.

He is one of the richest comic creators of all time

No, it really isn't.

Dollars have been steady for a long time. The looming threat of Manga has fallen off to a sickly hand puppet shadow making a bunny hop towards mediocrity.

The next big thing in comics is when Disney breaks Diamond and puts comics, with returnables, back in grocery and convenience stores.

What has Paul pope done besides not finishing battle boy anyways? He’s literally done next to nothing

But why tho
Why pedo lantern and the blandest man alive(who is also the most irresponsible murderer in history)

Comics like Superman have been around so long that they were for kids when my grandfather wasn't even 10 years old.

The nature of comics is that it's a retarded self-eating ouroboros of 81 years of continuity to reference, a vast tradition and mythos of the modern times. 10 year old Kids don't fucking have time to go into the belongings of a late great-grandfather they never met and dig around for action comics issue 1 to figure out where it all started, so the types of "comic artistes" making comics now are making them for the type of quasi-boomeroid who has time and money to collect and read through all the important parts and complain when a less-well-read author doesn't know as much about the mythos as them, forcing authors to constantly reference that time Batman punched hitler or whatever back in the 1940s.

The stories simply aren't simple for kids.

>doesn't read eurocomics
Ya you're question doesn't even deserve an answer you fucking pleb

They publish comics for customers

There standards for quality arent there

That's the demographic that has the most money and is willing to throw it at characters they grew up liking. This is also why tabletop games are the most successful kickstarters, because the main audience are middle aged men with money to throw at funding their favorite things. I have a friend who's a manager of a store, has his own house, and a room dedicated to the tabletop games he's backed where he gave at least a few hundred to each.

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Marvel and DC are both literally funded by the CIA.

I think those kid/YA books are doing pretty well actually. So they might be getting better.

That quote is super old

Yes, because anyone under 45 would know how to use a computer and therefore wouldn't pay money for a physical copy of a comic book.

Actually it's because they fucked the entire comic industry up in the 90's with their bullshit and are now driving everyone away including those 45 year olds with this creepy gay shit and terrible stories.

Kids aren't reading traditional big two. Hell adults from the last gen aren't reading them either.
They're reading old iconic stuff and wearing the clothes and watching the movies. But they are not touching the comics.
And I for one am relieved.
If they picked up the comics they'll be so turned off of the IP that it will negativelty impact the characters.

Your entire post reads like a dozen clickbait articles that are entirely based on speculation and opinions.

Kids and young adults do not read comics user.
That is a fact.
This isn't some wild speculation
This is reality

And modern comics are not liked by the normie males for the most part.
Very few modern comics have stories that will attract the typical male who'd be willing to pick it up.

LCS employee here.

I'd guess the average DC buyer is 35-40 years old. The average Marvel buyer is like 35 years old. Only slightly younger than the average DC buyer. The indies are mostly bought by 35-45 year olds depending on the publisher.

Almost no one under 30 comes in anymore. And customers under 25 are basically nonexistent. This has been the case since... I'd guess 2010-ish. But even before that almost 100% of readers have been adults for DECADES. Even in the 90s (which is when the guy that owns the place I work at got into the business) almost all the readers were in their 20s. Kids haven't made up any significant percentage of the market since the 70s.

>Teens and kids didn't read comics in the 90's
You're full of shit bro.

The reason you can't show tits is because the corporations that own them won't allow it. It has NOTHING to do with the audience.

>I think those kid/YA books are doing pretty well actually.
>I think

Johns is the ONLY writer at DC that's in touch with what the readers want.

You're obviously too young to remember. This is straight from the mouth of the guy who runs the LCS where I work. He's told me that when he was a kid it was mostly kids buying comics. Then when he was a teen it was mostly teens buying comics. By the time he got into the business it was almost all adults. He's kind of old and has been around comics for a long time and has seen the changes to both the industry and to comics fans. Dude is super knowledgeable and certainly knows more than your dumb ass would.

I didn’t fucking want Barry back

Literally all the MCU movies are worse than the comics storylines they are based on

That's true, but it's also the reason why modern comics are so bad. Guys like Johns are the target readers.

bro, comics exploded in the early 90's.
That's when they took off.
Kids were reading it because it was new and when superman "died" it was on the news and parents got back into comics and kids really got into comics and it took off.

YOU were not into comics back then. But I'm old enough to know how things popped off back then.

Everything in Thor and infinity Gauntlet? Yeah.
Damn near everything about IM? When IM 2 started and Avengers 2 started he stopped being cool and the partying hard yet responsible adult to ....fuck.

Everything else was bad.
Captain america first avenger was better then the original story except for how red skull was misused.

BP was fairly shit to be honest

Captain Marvel? Sadly the captain marvel movie did a better job with the character then the comics did.

And yeah. Everything else has been total rewrites and pure gold.

Oh and ironboy has been shit from jump.
Metric ton of it is good but too much ironman and cuck beta spidey. I'm not even slightly enthused about any spiderman stories.

Not even excited for the rumored alternate timeline adult miles morales spiderman showing up in the future.

That was on Didio, dude.

Comics sold several orders of magnitude better in the 80s. And far better than even that in the 60s. And several times better than that in the 40s.

You don't know shit about the history of the business or its sales.

I'm 31 and the majority of my comic reading from DC is pre-52.

I think they should be marketing 18-25 year olds tops. Anyone still reading modern cape comics at 25+ need to get their shit checked!

Have any sources for that number?

god i hope they fire bendis and make some proper boylove stories of Jon and Damian.

>Remember when it used to have blood and tits but the content under it was good?
No?

Adults read comics because you have to travel to a fucking store about 3 towns out to get comics.

As a kid I bought 2000ad because I could get it in my local magazine/news store on the supermarket.

I never really got into comics till I was like 17 outside of picking up comics at local boot sales (flea market/swap meets I think are the yank equivalent)

Now DC/marvel do a thing where they group comics together 3 issues related i.e batman/Batwoman/nightwing in one book for 5 quid. They're a few months behind but it's a good way for kids to get into comics because they can get them monthly from their local supermarket or newsagents

>We don't publish comics for kids
We fucking know. That's why your entire fucking industry is slowly dying. No new fucking fans.

Ah, you've never read comics or only started reading the big two and think that's "comics".

Here’s why:

>readcomiconline.to/
>mangarock.com
>e-hentai.org

Tell me, how could paid ever compete with free? The kids simly couldn’t afford that shit and now with rent prices going up even young adults are priced out. Comics is dead, I mean the price to time of having fun with it is pretty fucked. I finish a manga tankobon in under a hour and half, but form book of the same size and price, I get many hours of enjoyment.

The kids comics industry is booming, the big 2 doesn't care about those though and thus they remain stagnant

>Is he right? Is this the age of the average DCfag?
I'm near 40 and I haven't bought a comic in nearly a decade. Capeshit is for kids and boomer collectors.

DC is pushing into that kids market, or at least trying to. What strikes me though is that those books are very female focused

Picture related is still some of the best stuff I have read from DC and I say that as a grown man in my 30s.
Why is DC so allergic to fun and lighter stuff?

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you're not just saying that because you fap to loli supergirl now are you?

I am not. It's legitimately good.

I'm in my early 20s but what's wrong with that? Kids can fuck off.

Well, I agree anyway. The DC kids line was great

Someone should storytime this.

if that is the case why the need to censor female costumes to no longer be revealing?

In fact this is an argument for classier costumes, becuase unlike kids who don’t know porn is a thing yet, adults do and don’t buy comic books for their fap material

Lord knows I only used to fap to comics because I didn’t know where else to find fap material, and now with the internet even kids can find porn everywhere

Have you been into a actual comic store? The dudes that buy 10 comics at a time are always in their 30s and 40s.

I am 42 and I buy new between 1 and 3 comics weekly, in Midtown Comics near Times Square.

Yes, objectively speaking. The 45 year olds get butthurt when they hear the truth for some reason though.

This. Why would kids ever enter a comics store? Kids would pick up a comic if they see them at a grocery store or convenience store with their parents, but not otherwise

Johns is a retard that only writes for people dumber than he is

yeah it's gonna be called wildstorm and the big two can SUCK IT

I don't know what's weirder. The implication that Paul Pope is european, the implication that he didn't publish Aurora West or the fact that you bought him up out of nowhere in the first place in this completely unrelated thread.

>Jim Lee is like...the golden boy of comic artists right now. His name is pure fucking gold and he can personally command a lot of attention if he started self publishing through indiegogo and the like
Lol did you come here from 15 years I the past? I can't imagine the balls it takes to tell someone who jim lee is and then to act like he's a big name creative still. NOBODY A gives a fuck about Jim Lee art.

I disagree with you on Civil War.

then how come DC comics have no problems pandering to gays and women by having male characters constantly be drawn half naked for no reason?
Comics these days really are just sexist towards men. women always get potrayed as smarter and better then them and every male character has to deal with "not being good enough" or "worthy" of being a hero while all the women are marie sues who get portrayed as super competent, mature and masculine

Lmao insecure little faggot

>Captain america first avenger was better then the original story except for how red skull was misused.
MCU Cap is based on Brubaker Cap. Brubaker is by magnitudes better than whatever they shit out

Comics civil war had a bite to it, although it wasn’t good plot or characterisation wise. Tony actually dealt with the consequences for a long long time. MCU civil war is neutered water down shit

ah yes the famous leftwing double standard shows itself once again

>proving me right
I’m a right-leaning libertarian, just calling a spade a spade, fag

Half retards who are still so childish that they think only edgy shit is cool, half jackasses who don't want to be judged as being "childish" for making comics.

No, he is wrong. 45-years old make a big portion, but there are many 20-40 year olds.
If he wrote "DC publishes for an adult audience than kids nowadays", than he would be correct.

Yeah.
The titty isnt shown because kids might grab the comic and its like MCU for all ages.

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I mean middle aged people have more disposable income than kids who are probably spending their allowances on Fortnite skins.

To be fair the female readership is not really a readership, I never understood why they pander to a demographic that doesn't really buy their products.

they're probably going to move to fully digital distribution at some point within the next few decades. They'll decline in readership but will still exist.
if, by some turn of fate, they have to close their doors, he rights will be quickly bought up, because the amount of story potential both universes have is enormous. Ideally they'd become public domain, but with the dollars that Disney pushes to extend copyright, that's never going to happen

I remember a time in the 90s they used recaps for the story or before that had editorials adding things.
But now with the internet its quite easy to look up some wiki.

Battle boy is good example of why Kids don't read comics.

Because even though women aren't really a comic (more likely a "big two") readership, they absolutely are the majority in any other publishing medium. And even if we're talking (non-big two) comics, Raina Telgemeier is a perpetual best seller and her books are aimed at girls.

Comics stores don't sell hentai or doujinshi.

t.Wallyfag

They're both ok characters, but honestly Barry dying was unironically the best thing to ever happen to the Flash mythos. Dude went out a hero, with a huge legacy. Wally took up the mantle and (for 20 YEARS) filled his mentors shoes and then some. to A lot of people, myself included, Wally was the one and only flash.

Barry is a cool guy, but bringing him back was kind of an insult to younger readers. "Hey kids (who are in their 20's now) you know the character you've come to know and love? We're going to sideline him for some dude who nobody's really cared about for over 2 decades, mmmkay? Also we're going to reboot the universe soon (using that same character btw) but also leave out your favorite guy because lol who cares?"
side note, I really didn't mind black Wally, he was an ok character, but the fact that they originally were pushing him as THE Wally West was kind of an insult to the character. Taking a character with such a rich history as a hero in his own right, and then not only making him a sidekick again but also making him a token diversity character was really a shitty move.

Wally West was really the only DC sidekick (until Dickbats, WAY later) to fully take up his mentor's role for an extended period of time. He was the epitome of the ideal of "passing the torch" - fitting for a character based on running.

I'm not even going to get into the mess that is Rebirth and HiC, but suffice to say, Barry honestly should have stayed dead.

Wally was sidelined partly because his character arc ran dry. That's exactly why Bart became The Flash before Barry came back.

>his character arc ran dry
Fist off, that's an excuse more than anything. They wanted to bring Barry back so they could make a huge deal out of it and score some brownie points
Second off, if that's true, so what?
That was (and still is) true for a lot of major heroes. What was the last character development Superman had before Jon was introduced? What about Martian Manhunter? Aquaman? Lots of characters become stagnant over the years, it doesn't mean that they have to be replaced. Just keep them going with stories about what they DO, not who they ARE. Those can be just as good. Eventually some writer will come along and find a way to develop the character a bit more.

In 2020s we are going to move into post digital world. In next decade all analogue type technology is going to fucking finally die off. CDs will die. DVDs will die. TV will die as it continues to move away from what it is currently to more on stream service provided to you thru app on your tablet and phone. Radio will die as it continues to be replace by podcasts and online video blogs. Instead of DJs it will be AIs, using your online playlist as guide that will be playing you your favourite music and recommend you new sounds, new songs and artists.

Those barren vacant analogue signals that used to be use by TV and Radio Stations, they will instead be bought up by banks and finance credit companies and used by them to help user in totally cashless society meaning not even money in your wallet will survive this transition. If paper notes in your wallet won't no longer be around in coming decade what fuck user makes you think that your favourite magazine or book will be ? Hint : It won't. It will all be online like everything else in this world. Comic Books are already dead. We're just waiting to see who out of big two are going to make long boring tedious drive to nursing home to collect his belongings and clear out rest of his stuff.

No one has time to spend reading a billion page wiki to see some obscure detail from the 1950s

I would assume the smart thing would be so they can get female approval for nerdy hobbies, in order to attract c*mbrains who otherwise wouldn't give it the time of day. It's not about getting girls to read it, it's about all the girls dressed as sexy Raven/Supergirl at ComicCon encouraging normalfag guys to get into it.

Or that's what a smart corporation would do but DC and Marvel continue to bleed so maybe they really are just retarded.

No you aren't, faggot. If you don't want every gun and drug legalize, the abolishment of taxes as well as the crippling of the federal government youre simply a proper liberal.

So many people just imagine they're libertarians. Literally nobody isz

Put the blood and tits back in. Twelve year old boys love that shit.

Hook themm then and they'll buy for the rest of their life. SJW crap doesn't sell.

you are a faggot you will roll down the moment a fat, pink haired feminist screaming "sexist" or "racist"
you will literally justify any kind of sjw crap to avoid triggering liberals

They publish for Dan and his circlejerk. They don’t give a fuck about fans

>I am right leaning but totally support leftwing censorship
why are you lying on the internet user?

this
Lucky Trips of Truth

>Because even though women aren't really a comic (more likely a "big two") readership, they absolutely are the majority in any other publishing medium
only because the other medium doesn't over much for men and boys either. if comics really tried pandering to men and boys again instead of only to sjws their sales would jump up again

men have lost the right to see a titty due to generally poor behavior

If you think this isn't true you must not visit comic shops very often, unsurprisingly since everyone here is a teenager or college student who just pirates everything

I AM 45 years old and if they are doing this for MY sake you can tell them THEY CAN STOP!

I don't understand. They want to make boomer comics?

Counterpoint; manga has endings, and you get the same shit constantly.

Boomers are mostly conservative and white so that can't be the case

This is because he has driven away anyone that doesn't want what he wants. And that's why DC is shrinking to just the Barry, Bats and Hal show, and why Bendis was a good get even though he's, you know, Bendis.

Sounds more like the age of the average DC employee at the time.

That could work in a boomer comic setting. Like old black mavis is watching the nazis on TV going "how could anyone fall for that..." while in the background her white kid is being converted into doing the salute by the computer.

It wouldn't even be the worst thing DC's done recently.

you say that yet he is just like the other types pandering the sjw line about "sexy costumes bad"

What that is is normals don't give a shit about jerking it to poorly drawn cartoon softcore, and since DC is a business, that means they don't make enough money.

>But all those 51 year olds that are their average audience spend more!

Yeah they do, and the loss of 1 51 year old who buys say 12 titles a month from them is the same as losing the business of 12 20 year old kids that just buy one title a month, but the difference is that if those kids are still around when they're 51 they'll be buying 12 books a month as well, whereas by that time the existing 51 year olds will be 82 and buying plastic panties because they keep shitting themselves, or dead.

Audiences change their demographics over time. If they don't, they shrink, and if they shrink, your business contracts with the audience, until you finally go under.

DC's on track to go under sometime in the 2020s. They'll still be an IP holder, but there won't be a DC Comics other than as a legacy for reprint, and eventually it'll just be a cartoon studio and merch farm. Given the way the DCEU went, unless they have a lot of big successes in the movies soon, the whole thing might be quietly shelved 10 years from now.

>but that's crazy, Marvel are making money

Yeah they are. But just because your competitor is making money doesn't mean you know how to, or that you should go out of business trying to copy them or fill the gaps around what they produce. That's insane. You hear anything about the Universal shared universe since that shitty Mummy reboot? No. Will you? No. It's dead. They know when to quit. These things happen.

I order the trades off amazon and read digital at comixology

I don't get what you are trying to say.
In my opinion a boomer comic would be about an old, retired and out of shape superman and batman showing a young new generation of superheroes how you really save the day while making political incorrect jokes (but not necessarily racist or sexist once mind you) at the expense of woman and minorities. Maybe superman calls somebody "magic girl" and she replies with "actually it's magic WOMAN" which superman just counters with rolling his eyes at how anybody could care about something like this in the middle of a fight.
Ah and Superman would probably make a few lines about how great america is which trigger the younger heroes which see themselves more as global superheroes

what makes you think that 12 to 20 year old kids don't like looking at sexy women?

Why people are so autistic about start reading in the #1? I never read the #1 of Batman, Superman, Spidey, Green Lantern, Flash, Wonder Woman, X-men or etc, still i am capable of enjoy stories about the characters.

Nope. They "wrote" to me, past tense. All I read in comics are the old stuff.

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>this history of the world thing is so long that no kid would want to open up wikipedia to read what happened in the world before this moment in time. Only rich old fart with thousands of books and internet tabs look into history. Earth just isn't simple enough for kids.

I don't think there's a single zoomer that's combing the wikipedia Roman Empire article list. So yeah, there's no 12 year old kid that's going to buy 81 years of comics just to figure out what's going on.

Well yea, kids don't care about shit like Heroes in Crisis. And cannot really give a damn about silver age easter eggs in Green Lantern.

>only because the other medium doesn't over much for men and boys either.
are you seriously implying fucking literature doesn't offer much for men and boys? Wether you like it or not, reading for leisure has been a female activity since at least the 17th century and getting a share of the female readership has been an interest of the big two since at least the 80s (and I point you to Chris Claremont's and Louise Simonson's interviews with TCJ, from the top of my head).

>replying to insane incels

I don't, because it's not censorship but cooperations exerting their will in a free market. If you think they shouldn't be allowed to do that you support censorship

No, but you don't need to buy 81 years of comics. People just wiki won't they don't know. Also get comics online for free.

Then why are blood and tit comics selling even worse than sjw crap?

Clearly you're too retarded to understand my post, which was saying that the female "readership" should be about making the comics palatable to women so cumbrains like yourself are more likely to buy comics whereas before betamales obsessed with getting laid would steer clear of hobbies women are likely to shun. And that DC and Marvel are retarded for not realizing this and genuinely attempting to get women to read superhero comics, which is never going to happen.

>when all your arguments are meme buzzwords

>are you seriously implying fucking literature doesn't offer much for men and boys?
modern? yes there really hardly is anything for boys or men these days.
It almost always about idiotic male character having to realize that some woman is better then him at everything.

Children aren't going to do that you autistic spergoid, that's the fucking point. Comics are designed around referencing billion year old shit kids aren't going to get and isn't accessible to them, they aren't going to autistically spend their time reading through a fucking wiki to figure out why green lantern referenced some fucking villain who hasn't show up more than 1 time since the 1960s. Your inability to understand this is why comics are dying- they're made for fucking retards like you, who are a vanishingly small portion of the population.

If you actually think little kids are reading comics, then you are truly retarded.

>he doesn't even fucking read
Why am I not surprised, you can find so many wish fulfillment books written by incels like you online

As someone who only got into comics recently I find shit like the X-men/Mutants universe absolutely impenetrable, I can only enjoy western comics for the art.

And you have no hope in children, especially brain fucked by medication children of today.

>>when all your arguments are meme buzzwords
Your "arguments" are too, or is your head so far up your ass you can't even read your own post?

>I find shit like the X-men/Mutants universe absolutely impenetrable
If you're reading HoX/PoX, everyone is just as lost as you are, it's normal for Hickman and it all depends on if he sticks the ending

I'm only 30 but I really enjoy finding old DC and Marvel comics to read, because they're new to me and the art is really great.

Like, reprint Cinder and Ashe, DC. This shit is buckwild.

>which is never going to happen.
Squirrel girl and Moon Girl are quite popular with young girls though

I'm not retarded, I understood your post, it's just baffling that someone would reduce half the human population as a marketing ploy to convince the other half of the population to read comic books. For someone who clearly thinks women are these bots devoid of feelings or self-awareness, you sure don't seem to have a very good opinion of yourself or other males.
None of the 21st century books in my collection have even a short story about that. Try reading an actual book every now and then.

You could try starting with Claremont's run if you are interested in the X-Men.

Yeah, they are basically writing soap operas.

Oh, so you don't read modern comics OR books

>Do you buy the idea that culture’s understanding of superheroes has changed since you first took them as your subject matter?
This is not a topic I’m eager to discuss. I will say that when I was a child, from about 7 to 12 reading Superman, comics were an incredible stimulus for my imagination. They were brilliant. They were cheap. They were readily available. I don’t think that superheroes or superhero comics of today are aimed at children anymore.

>Who are they aimed at? Teenagers?
I would say it’s considerably older. I think that the average comics reader these days is probably in their 30s, their 40s, their 50s.

>Is that a bad sign?
That to me looks slightly unhealthy. People have been saying since the mid-’80s that “comics have grown up.” I don’t think that’s factually true. I think what happened was that there have been a couple of comics that seemed to be reaching for a more mature readership, and that has coincided with the emotional age of the mass audience coming the other way.

This is from an interview with Alan Moore

Cont.

>So the success of superheroes movies, for example, has less to do with the characters proving that they can be narratively interesting or embodying popular ideas about the culture and more to do with audiences getting increasingly immature?
When I look at the current situation with these superhero movies, I have to wonder.

>Put audiences aside. Are you saying that all the mental energy that writers, creators, and thinkers are putting into this stuff is totally bogus?
I am really in a bad mood about superheroes. I’m not the best person to ask about this. What are these movies doing other than entertaining us with stories and characters that were meant to entertain the 12-year-old boys of 50 years ago? Are we supposed to somehow embody these characters? That’s ridiculous. They are not characters that can possibly exist in the real world. Yes, I did Watchmen. Yes, I did Marvelman. These are two big seminal superhero works, I guess. But remember: Both of them are critical of the idea of superheroes. They weren’t meant to be a reinvigoration of the genre.

>Everybody learned the wrong lessons from your superheroes? This could be the plot of a comic-book story about you.
The superheroes of my youth had dogs that dressed in capes and masks! It’s obvious they stand for nothing other than the power of the imagination. I tend to see a lot of these current figures as the focus of a kind of unhealthy escapism.

>What about the idea that these characters are resonating now because they have such broad nostalgic appeal? Or is that appeal more like willful intellectual infantilization?
I can understand the desire to hang on to your childhood, but, it turns out, you can’t. There’s nothing wrong with having fond thoughts about this or that, but you don’t have to carry it with you your whole life like some sort of suit of magic armor.

Of course there is repetition. There is repetition in any industry. Why are people consistently shocked when it happens in Japan?

I'm in my early 40s and I stopped giving a damn about DC shit. Nothing they've done or made in the past decade peaked my interest.

Really though, I think there is actually very few true endings in manga. Think about it, how much manga ends up either getting cancelled, the author ends it abruptly because they're tired of because of editorial interference or has been writing for decades and stopped updating it.

Berserk is babby 's first "manime" and it's still not completed after 20 years and likely never will be. Same with hxh. So many desires and meandering for years until they suddenly tie up every loose plot thread within 5 chapters.

They are very few manga with good concise and satisfying endings

You'd think that, but you should have heard all the anons here laughing at the Walmart exclusive deal. It definitely got me to buy some issues.

>with audiences getting increasingly immature?
>When I look at the current situation with these superhero movies, I have to wonder.
Current situation? Why was Adam sandler successfull? Jim Carrey? Benny Hill? Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardy? Chaplin? The 50s and 60s sci-fi movies?
There was never in cinema, even in literature, stuff that doesnt spoke to immature feelings and grown-ups consumed it.

shut the fuck up boomer

There's this weird thought that Moore (and a lot of indiefags) seem to have that if you enjoy superheroes or escapism in general, you shield yourself and can't also enjoy media that deals with real adult life or doesn't include lasers or swords. That's a pretty big crock of shit honestly. I'm sure it's true of some people but there's nothing that makes it a generalization.

Autism.

Didn't even Stan Lee say he didn't get why young artists hired at Marvel wanted to just write moar Spiderman and X-Men stories instead of creating OC?

Why would they give away their IP to Marvel? There's tons of ways to publish a story about your OC without relinquishing creative control, the main appeals of the big 2 are a steady paycheck and playing with the toys from your childhood. Besides I'm pretty sure editors are not so dumb as to not pick up that even the best OC will be outsold by the worst Spider-Man book, they have no incentive to push people to create OCs.
All those factors didn't exist when Lee was editor.

It's him projecting most of the time. Moores a slefhating fuck who constantly reinvents himself and thus contradicts himself.

"I have so many young guys that Marvel hires come up to me and tell me how excited they are to write stories for Spiderman and the Hulk. But then I always say 'Well, why do you want to write for my characters so badly?' When I was a kid, I loved Batman and Superman and the Flash, but I didn't write for them, instead I created Spiderman and the Hulk."

When Stan was a kid in the 40s or whatever, the comic industry was barely defined yet and still in its infancy. The big two today are multibillion dollar mass market corporations designed to sell toys, so when there's that much money involved, you're not allowed to experiment much or create OC.

Because your uncle owned those properties and made sure to coddle you with enough benefits so you could tell those kids writing at marvel is great.

DC comics are written for manbabies.
Marvel comics are written by manbabies.

I see you forgot the "co" part of "co-created" again, Stan.

>secondary trying to bait
Writers move from one company to the other all the time.

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DC's main problem is that they are catering to hardcore fan base and alienating casuals

Batman: Father of five is a terrible concept

>Dude, rumor states that Jim Lee and a few other artists and writers who still have a good name with the comic geeks and public are slowly backing out of mainstream comics and are getting ready to start getting into self publishing contained non big 2 comics.
>Jim Lee is like...the golden boy of comic artists right now. His name is pure fucking gold
isnt this just the story of how image comics was made lol

Casuals don't buy comics, that's why they're casuals. Every attempt at easy entry points fizzles out or reverts to being a casual-unfrienly mess in the span of 5 years.

That's why focusing on limited stuff and GNs is the way to go

That explains why they hired Tom King and give so much power to Bendis.

>Is he right? Is this the age of the average DCfag?
Yes and no. The comics are for the age group he mentions. Fans of DC that are younger exist and likely know the characters from things like cartoons and video games and movies.

not him but
comichron.com/yearlycomicssales/postaldata/1960.html
Superman was selling over 800k PER ISSUE on average in 1960. If you include the spin-offs, Action Comics, World's Finest etc, you're looking at 3.3m sales per month

>Dude, rumor states that Jim Lee and a few other artists and writers who still have a good name with the comic geeks and public are slowly backing out of mainstream comics and are getting ready to start getting into self publishing contained non big 2 comics.

wow, just IMAGEine what that will be like

So we are going back to the 90 again?

Aren't most of the people in Yea Forums in their 20s though? It's hard to imagine middle aged people acting so immature.

>even worse than Didio
Now let's not get carried away.

The current state of capeshit and capeshitters would prove him right.

To be honest Johns is not the only one to blame.

My local shop has a couple

Who the motherfucking fuck said it was the average?

Rarely does a company ever hit its target demographic.

Start with the 60's

This pretty much sums why DC is failing in sales to Marvel

It's the unfortunate truth of comics, but it's not good to hear it coming from an executive rather than a critic. The executives of these companies *should* be trying to bring in new blood, not accepting the (ugly and unsustainable) status quo as the company policy.

Except they don't even do that. The only old-ass person DiDio wants DC to appeal to is himself.

>As a kid I bought 2000ad because I could get it in my local magazine/news store on the supermarket.

This. I bought Archies at the grocery store and Heavy Metals at 7/11

I mean how many young people do you know read comics?

DC still pulls good books from time to time. Marvel on the other hand killed the only good series they had with sinergy.

He is also a sellout.

bump

>Have the opportunity to make adult content
>is known for the vertigo imprint and watchmen
So what is he complaining? Their target group shifted? Why not pander to adult readers and kids/young adults?
Hell, kids read Maus in school, maybe he underestimate kids and its their advertisment they dont reach new readers?

I know 2 directly in my family and i remember at least 10 in my lcs. But the lcs sells mangas too.

I was capable of enjoying comics without even understanding the age-old references they would toss about occasionally, what the fuck are you talking about? I've never collected an entire series, let alone a complete run of comics. All I ever did was simply pick up a random issue and puzzle out the story and previous parts if there was an event by speculation or googling it. Zoomers actually use the internet you fucking retard. Continuity is never the problem, it's the fact that most idiots like you who perpetuate the idea that you'd have to know the decades worth of stories in order to enjoy a random issue of Superman. If I could use the internet when I was 10 years old to look up the rest of Blackest Night without knowing the decades worth of Green Lantern mythos, anyone with a working brain can.

>no bat dick
Either wrong or sexist.

>First of all they should just say adults.
Nah, he was specifically referring to people born in the late 60s that still buy comics because thats what they are used to.

If this is the case, why are the comics so childish or teenage angstish? Does he mean that they write comics for 45-year-olds that want to regress mentally to how comics was when they were young?

So called "man-childs".

Because if a normal 45-year-old was to pick up a superhero comic, he wouldn't understand the point at all.

It is a interesting question actually: How would superhero comics written for normal 45-year-olds be?

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>and that has coincided with the emotional age of the mass audience coming the other way.
He is spot on of course. And that goes for the whole society. People aren't growing up anymore, they stay in a childlike mentality forever. The popular culture doesn't seem to evolve beyond late teens mentality.

See people like Mark Waid that playing pretend and fight imaginary nazis, and has the self-control of a 4 year old.

>It is a interesting question actually: How would superhero comics written for normal 45-year-olds be?

Die Hard except some people have superpowers.

>. 10 year old Kids don't fucking have time to go into the belongings of a late great-grandfather they never met and dig around for action comics issue 1 to figure out where it all started,
They can get caught up via the wikipedia. Also the length of a story as never been a problem in mangaland, just look at pic related

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Not this guy but reading through all the One Piece volumes to catch-up is pretty much doable, and you only need to read one series of more or less consistent quality in story and art. To read everything in X-Men before the start and finish you'd have to read multiple series of varying quality.
It's not like kids cannot get up to speed on wikipedia, it's just there are so many alternatives they'll simply won't do that.

>Didn't even Stan Lee say he didn't get why young artists hired at Marvel wanted to just write moar Spiderman and X-Men stories instead of creating OC?
>Why would they give away their IP to Marvel?
This! Ever since Image was created, if you have a great idea, publish it there, and keep all your rights.
In the past 2 decades, it feels like the only people creating new characters with any real staying power for the big two are Geoff Johns, and Grant Morrison.
All the other characters are more or less rehashes of existing ones: It's Wolverine, but the Hulk. It's Wolverine, but a teenage girl. It's Spider-Man, but a girl. It's Tony Stark but a black girl. It's the Vision, but a teenage girl. It's the Hulk, but Asian. Etc.

More like 45 year olds who never grew up who still partake in childish hobbies yet are embarrassed of themselves and their childish hobbies.

He is cancer in human form and has ruined DC beyond repair.

>he's spot on
About some people. But just like you he makes the mistake of constructing monoliths to suit your world-view.

In reality both you and him are the mal-adjusted ones at odds with the world.

>reading thousands of pages is do-able if it's made by gooks
>reading thousands of pages condensed into a wiki isn't do-able

Why do you think kids are as big if faggots as you? they don't watch toonami after school any more there's no reason for them to be more connected to gookshit than capeshit. You're imagining every kid is like you and they aren't.

Nah that's Didio with Harras and Lee. You're an absolute faggot if you think Johns ever had the power or output to "ruin" DC. You just don't like his writing.

You should probably put a gun in your mouth, point it up and back, then pull the trigger. Seriously, please do this.

Best like Watchmen, Kingdom Come, Swampthing, Preacher, Multiversity

If bad than like Heroes in Crisis, Doomsday Clock, identity Crisis

Is that why bad words are still censored?

Stop bumping the thread with a meaningless controversial "debate".

Nobody gives a fuck that your faggot ass hates Hal. Take your own advice and kill your self to spare the rest of us your pissant existence any longer. Or go start a fucking blog.

Bringing back Hal was a good thing, the Kyle experiment was an utter failure that crapped over everything about the GL mythos.

But Wally built upon the Flash mythos, added to it and made is stronger. Bringing back Barry was a step backwards.

And I like Barry. But bringing him back only hurt his own legacy.

Undoing it now a something only retards think is worthwhile. The "damage" to the legacy is solidified. What the fuck does rekilling him do?

You don't love Barry, you love using him as a reason/sign to shit on any comic printed after his return that you personally don't like. You sound like Didio's faggot ass.

Depressed whinny batman is written for kids.

then why do they insist on not letting the status quo evolve?

Because a lot of those 45 yos only consume capes and other forms of genre fiction, leaving them aesthetically, if not downright emotionally, stunted.
I was watching Cartoonist Kayfabe a while ago and Ed mentions how Eisner talked about writing capes for so long that it kinda limited his vocabulary, imagine if you're not even reading and drawing, only mindlessly consuming the stuff for 40 years. It can't be good on your brains.

>Because a lot of those 45 yos only consume capes and other forms of genre fiction, leaving them aesthetically, if not downright emotionally, stunted
>watches two pretentious faggots fellate genre comics
>inb4 "you obviously don't watch they do non-cape shit all the time" in which you imply shit like Akira isn't high quality genre fiction

Prove those 45 year olds you describe exist outside of twitter. Most people in the world don't read "literature" if anything at all. And most people in the world never did. "Superior intellectuals like myself" were never seen as "men" they were always seen as bookish, mal-adjusted weirdos who need to experience the real world more and that doesn't mean traveling.

You're simultaneously imagining genre fiction hasn't always been societal preference AND imagining that reading proper literature rather than genre fiction is a sign of adulthood. The real problem with those people you imagine exist far more than they do is the merch and cosplay shit. But oddly you're focused on people reading/consuming what they always have rather than adults spending hundreds to thousands just play dress up or own a toy.

How the fuck am I gonna prove to you that someone exists over fucking Yea Forums, do you want me to go and find those people on social media? Because that wouldn't be hard, but would also get me banned. Now, if fucking Paul Pope's word isn't enough for you, there are PLENTY of places where people worry about the aging of the comic public and the lack of new readership.
I'm not sure if there's a translation problem here, but I didn't talk about genre literature, I talked about genre FICTION. The vast majority of people consume base media, myself included, and most people are aesthetically stunted. And to say people "always consumed" this is ignoring the huge shift in demographics.
Stop being so defensive, none of what I said is a lie or a particularly uncommon opinion, no need to get defensive, I love me some sci-fi and capeshit every once in a while, but challenging your own tastes and limits is never a bad thing when it comes to art.

>do you want me to go and find those people on social media
I specifically said:
>Prove those 45 year olds you describe exist outside of twitter.

Literally the first sentence after the greentext. Learn to fucking read before you go off on rants about how all of society doesn't grow up.

>I'm not sure if there's a translation problem here, but I didn't talk about genre literature, I talked about genre FICTION.
So are you ESL? I very specifically referred to genre fiction and literature as two distinct different things. It's literally the crux of my post. Anyone imagining most of the world EVER read literature rather than genre is flatly absurd.

>literal shitskin tries to act like his inability to read is anons problem
>literal shitskin says the phrase "changing demographics" as if whites don't make up the largest literature-reading demographic
>thinks anyone gives a fuck about his half-assed rehashing of Paul Pope's opinion.

Again, HOW THE FUCK am I supposed to prove you those people exist then, you want me to go my LCSs and take a census? Because even that wouldn't be possible, since we still buy shit on newsstands here. Again, genre FICTION, literature isn't the only form of FICTION, that's what I meant, sorry. Still doesn't change the fact that comic readership has been getting older since at least the 80s (and you don't have to believe him either but Morrison talks about it in Supergods, Claremont also talks about it in his TCJ interview covered by kayfabe way back when he left X-Men, blah blah blah).
I have to assume you somehow know a bunch of 10 yo who are reading Marvel and DC and I guarantee you they only read comic books because their 45yo dads got them into it.

I've never referred to it as genre literature because that doesn't exist. Your spic ass needs to learn English. God damn you aren't even addressing what I said you're just sperging that you can't prove the point you were making. THATS LITERALLY THE GOAL OF ASKING YOU TO DO IT.

Society by and large has NEVER been into literature. They read genre fiction. Society now is not "stunted", it's no different that before. Ironically "intellectuals" don't seem to possess this knowledge. Reading literature is an mental work out. It's like doing bench presses or squats, it's superfluous to what most people generally do to stay in shape if they ever did. The average person doesn't work on themselves in anyway after childhood. People that do have always been the exception. It's simply being a cunt to say everyone is stunted.

Also, this:
>I have to assume you somehow know a bunch of 10 yo who are reading Marvel and DC and I guarantee you they only read comic books because their 45yo dads got them into it.
Has absolutely NOTHING to do with what was being discussed.

Lol, why you so mad tho? Words on the internet have some kind of power over you?

I don't know why you're focusing on literature when I mentioned it as an example of something that probably isn't healthy for your artistic vocabulary (if consumed in excess). My main point is that aging readership in comic books is such an old problem that people don't even see it as a problem now, only as a characteristic of the market, which is also what Pope's talking about in the OP.
Why the fuck are you so mad, I explained myself twice already and you refuse to let it go, I never in my life even came close to imply that vassals were reading John Bunyan or that your average IT guy is into Thomas Pynchon, only that there are people who grow up consuming nothing but that (or cape comics or sitcoms) and this in turn dulls their tastes. You don't even sound like you would disagree with that, considering how much of a partisan to literature you are.

Mate please read the OP

Comics are a commodity at this point. Only 45 year okds with six-figure incomes can still buy comics like in 1991. You could easily drop $100 a month these days if you kept a pull box of ten titles.

Rereading your posts, it sounds to me like you assume the word fiction can only be applied to literature, because I clarified the translation issue (which by the way barely implies I'm not fluent in english, only that the specific term "genre fiction" has a broader meaning in my language) and fiction still applies to any imagined or extrapolated narrative.

>Le OP is what is being discussed
Nah faggot, learn how threaded replies work.

This is where the current discussion started: >Because a lot of those 45 yos only consume capes and other forms of genre fiction, leaving them aesthetically, if not downright emotionally, stunted

I asked him to prove this (an intentional goose chase to prove he's spouting anecdotes based on social media. Which was funny because his initial response was specifically about social media). I also made the point that most of society only ever read genre fiction rather than literature so saying people are stunted these days is revisionist.

Anons insistence on bouncing off of that topic and REEing while having poor English has muddied this.

Are you LARPING as me know or did you respond to the wrong post?

user replied to me.

>Nah faggot
Whew, lad. Angry much?

New much?

No, I replied myself, continuing my post. I clearly talked about myself in the first person when referring to my post. Again, i've explained myself over and over while you just get more and more agressive while failing to realize what I was replying to in the first place (a guy who talked about how comics are teen-angstish so it's probably not 45yos who read them, to which I replied about how it's all they know so they accept it).

>rereading your posts
You referred to yourself as "you". That's third person.

>They'll decline in readership but will still exist.

This, they are relatively cheap to make and can be exploited in other media. They also draw hardcore fans if you do it right, that can act like brand sirens to others (just look at Moon Knight, a relatively unknown character to most but has a ton of hype now after the show's announcement, thanks to superfans losing their minds).

Ten years time they might look different but 'comic books' won't ever go away.

This has been true since the 80s. You think 10 years olds are the target demographic for this?

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That's inaccurate.

They're publishing for 46 and 59 year olds.
Geoff Johns and Dan Didio. No one else matters.

When I was ten I was watching Tales from the Crypt and nightmare on elm street.

So was I, still not the target demographic

I was rereading the other guys posts, I know what mine meant.

Johns has had more power than you think and brought all his retard friends in DC. Also his faggot fans are an obnoxious cancerous cult.

Just make all the super hero comics into what ifs or elseworlds
Hell Geoff Johns got to write an ending to his GL run.

>Also his faggot fans are an obnoxious cancerous cult.
Nah the "cereal lord" faggots are the problem. Johns hasn't had a vocal or defensive readership in years. I say this literally hating his terrible take on cap. The people who hate the guy are way more vocal and annoying than his fans.

They'd first have to bring either of those lines back.

I love Johns GL run but this is a problem. Hal's story was over, we didn't really need to bring him back. Don't get me wrong I love Hal but his story was completed and finished.
Same thing with Barry Allen. We didn't need Barry back, he died and Wally took his place.

I think the best way to solve this issue is to get better at writing and organizing legacy characters. Hell one of the funnest Batman runs was when Dick was Batman and Damian as Robin

>The people who hate the guy are way more vocal and annoying than his fans.
Have fun living in your fantasy land.

Ya I usually see anons say they like his work and then some sperg comes along and tries to start shit.
Hell we had a GL thread with someone trying to push some "Geoff fans hate Morrision comics" shit

45 y/o are genX-ers.

This really sucks because kids still love super heroes. Hell look how big the movies and even anime based on Super Heroes.
LCS need to die so comics can once again be in the hands of kids.

>Why not pander to adult readers and kids/young adults?
They did, and people just whine more and more about SJW and bullshit

not all kids are sjw dumbass
hell the newe generation is more right leaning now because of these fucks

>This really sucks because kids still love super heroes. Hell look how big the movies and even anime based on Super Heroes.
True, especially boys love the power fantasy.

>LCS need to die so comics can once again be in the hands of kids.
But limiting the target demographics as children has caused comics as an industry almost to die multiple times.

Copyrights and massive franchises must die so comics could be fresh and accessible to different demographics, instead of sticking to old and tired characters. Only when Superman and Batman is in public domain, we will finally be free.

Here we go again.
Your opinion is not a fact.

Superman and Batman webcomics will be everywhere online
To be honest, it might actually increase their popularity

>hell the newe generation is more right leaning now because of these fucks
It's laughable that you'd believe in something this stupid. New generations turning into nazi sympathisers like their right-leaning parents that became terrorists who around communities and shoot people to death. And not to mention going to schools and murder kids and their classmates, while rightfags whine about the 2nd amenment rather than the lives of kids, and ruin their future with more debt and income inequality as their parents will be in debt for years. And the fact that you people whine about comics trying to represent people of different backgrounds as you descriminate them

Yeah. Like they'd turn into you people that want to see peopel suffer while you ignore bullshit

>right = nazi
gee I wonder why people are becoming more right leaning

How about pure paranoia that like to think they're better than everyone else

How many Sherlock Holmes or Jane Eyre webcomics are there?

Corporations shove them down our throats because executives think it's a safe bet, if not for profit, at least for avoiding blame for inevitable failure. Most stories don't benefit from being part of franchise, and few that do would be able to use them as they see fit, and only when needed.

Someones an angry faggot

Uhh...For attention because they have nothing to do with their lives and just want to be popular?

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>not all kids are sjw dumbass
You got proof of that?

Well support more terrorists and murder more kids why don't ya?

The fact that he's a hypocritical faggot

How this isn't common knowledge I'll never know.

Why would this be bad? Bring on the tits.

Actually wrong. Women have squandered their respect with #FreeTheNipple so they push for it in other areas. Mainly gaslighting.

easier to say you some made up gender if you want attention

>even worse than Didio
whoa whoa whoa
Let's not get crazy here.

This is hilarious. They know they cant market to kids anymore and that we are the last ones that like their comics and put up with their bullshit.

DC fucked up and will continue to fuck up Superman.

>In reality both you and him are the mal-adjusted ones at odds with the world.
Touché, But we are still right. :)

MCU civil war directly contributed to the victory of the original Thanos