What went wrong?

New 52 was absolute trash to begin with.

They forgot about most of them before the first year was up.

Dakotaverse was already in the DCU, if you actually read stuff before Flashpoint you'd know that. Same with the Vertigo characters. Daniel showed up in Morrison's JLA, so did Animal Man. Doom Patrol was already in the DCU and Infinite Crisis had already made their Vertigo adventures canon again.

The only argument you have is Wildstorm but even then Flashpoint had Grifter existing in the Flashpoint universe before the worlds got merged.

It was fucking garbage. That's "what went wrong".

Crisis was a full reboot. Zero Hour was a partial reboot (to the timelines, but still). Infinite Crisis was a partial reboot (to the multiverse). Final Crisis was supposed to be a reboot of some kind, but that didn't seem to quite work out. New 52 was then another full reboot. And then Rebirth was a retcon/partial-unboot.

DC reboots like once every decade. They'll do it again in the 2020s IF they don't get shut down by AT&T first (which is actually more likely).

Flashpoint wasnt written as a reboot, batman had a son already despite being like 28, and he had like 4 Robins. Geoff Johns first 6 issues or so of justice league was him pre ejaculating with darkseid that early. You cant start a new run with the big bad. Doesn't make any damn sense.

I will say that new 52 got me into DC despite its flaws, so I'll always be nostalgic for it.

#didiot

Dream appeared in like two issues of Grant Morrison JLA, and the justice league showed up for like 2 panels in Morrisons doom patrol run.

>I will say that new 52 got me into DC despite its flaws, so I'll always be nostalgic for it.
Gross.

AT&T wont shut down DC. It's a money tree for them, printing comics is probably extremely high profit for them and people will go see the movies. If a company like image or dark horse can stay afloat so can DC.

Even if DC is shut down, we will still get the comics. Itll be like the "DC comics imprint of WB publishing" or something

Why? Its not particularly good but like I'll always be fond of it.

Because it wasn’t actually a reboot when it mattered. Instead of easing us in they already jam packed all the Robins, Green Lantern’s entire history, and Darkseid invading the earth.

They should have completed the Pre-New 52 and all its Story arcs and let us say goodbye, like how Alan Moore and Frank Miller wrote their goodbyes to Silver Age Superman and Batman.

That way, you can plan for the new batch of heroic reboots and such.

Ideally under one Kevin Feige-esque dude who masterplanned the entire universe.

I would have chosen Grant Morrison and/or Mark Waid, personallly. Have someone who is autistically engrossed in the history of DC comics to plan out the story.

Mark Waid was brought on to help Alex Ross make his Kingdom Come story thanks to extensive knowledge of DC’s history

Grant Morrison was brought on to make a map of the DC Multiverse in Multiversity.

All we had was fucking Dan Didio and Jim Lee.

>AT&T wont shut down DC. It's a money tree for them,

Oh my god.
I thought you were being a flippant asshole there.
But you're serious. You poor poor deluded fuck.
They have the IPs. The only one they HAVE to continue to print is fucking WW and they only have to crap out a pamplete ever few months or year or so.

DC comics is superfluous.
It's why Lee is getting stormwatch a few writers and going to patreon and indiegogo to fund creator owned comics.
Or that's the rumor.

I liked the idea that Superman was the first Superhero in this new DC

Up until they IMMEDIATELY retconned it to simply saying he’s the first PUBLIC superhero.

With Dick already a fucking adult.

What the fuck.

>Zero Hour was a partial reboot (to the timelines, but still). Infinite Crisis was a partial reboot (to the multiverse). Final Crisis was supposed to be a reboot of some kind
None of those can be considered reboots.

>Why did DC reboot their comics and then retcon the reboot?
Fans: We want something new
Comic company: Gives fans something new
Fans: What's with this shit!? I didn't grow up with this! Superman in jeans? WTF? Where's his underwear on the outside!? Death threats + Hate mail also girls are bad
Comic company: Okay, here, have your old stuff
Fans: So boring, we want something new

I was unaware of that. Shit senpai that really that really rustles my jimmies

>Mark Waid was brought on to help Alex Ross make his Kingdom Come story thanks to extensive knowledge of DC’s history
And that sucked.

You're shitposting, there is no way you think they will close it when is the main appeal of the movies,games and cartoons is to be from those comics

Even the comics by itself still profit.

Brainlet

It's literally a shit comic with awful world-building, flimsy characterization, and nonsensical plotting. Not to mention that Waid proved he knew very little about several characters backgrounds and personalities. Hell, it ended up resulting in Waid and Ross hating one another and with Ross feeling that Waid ruined his dream-story.

It’s not about quality. It’s about someone who knows enough about the history of the DCU.

>be multi billion dollar Corp
>spend a few thousand bucks physically publishing the comic books
>sell the books at like at least 100% profit
>this is guaranteed literally all the time because people buy the comics
>people buy DC branded or licensed apparel, toys, video games and movies
>buy a t shirt for 20 cents and put a superman logo on it, its suddenly 100 times more valuable

DC is too valuable for AT&T to close down. Marvel was struggling and Disney only keeps it afloat for pure profit

Look. I personally think that Red Son and Kingdom Come are overrated garbage books that paved the way for Superman’s character to be constantly assasinated in stories like Injustice, but...

..what was I talking about? whatever. Red Son and Kingdom Come suck and ruined Superman and Wonder Woman imo

The comic don't bring in anywhere the profit of the films though. The IPs are valuable, but the books themselves aren't.

Fucking elseworlds, how do they work

What does it matter? Profit is profit. What do they have to gain from shutting it down?

Kingdom Come had pretty pictures at least. I can’t say the same for Red Son.

Alex ross doesn't believe in gutters and it almost ruins the book for me. Maybe im autistic.

>Superman’s character to be constantly assasinated in stories like Injustice
Is not character assassination, is an alternate version of the character in a clearly different universe.

Fuck is like claiming that Peter character was "assassinated" because there is an alternate universe where he is a serial killer.

They can put the money into something more profitable like more films or TV shows.

I don’t believe in gutters either desu. At least not in comics where they exist solely to indicate the main character is miserable and as an auxiliary to the rain doing the same. I may be biased because of the original Hellblazer run.

Gutters?

Why was Red Son so acclaimed?

>awful world-building, flimsy characterization, and nonsensical plotting.
Example

What money? They're not going to make any money from shutting it down.

>Crisis was a full reboot.
why didn't the teen titans become kids again?
why didn't Nightwing go back to being a Robin?
why didn't Firestorm not go back to being a teenager?

The people asking for something new, and the people asking for more of the same are different people.

Gutters are the gaps between panels.

Why shut down an IP farm that market tests new characters and concepts at a low cost?

You know I don’t have a damn clue: I’m not even the original user shitting on those two, but it just read as a boring forced bad end to me. So much forced plot armour for Luthor, and from issue to issue Redperman just seemed impossibly slow witted and...naive for someone who’d been running the Soviet Union for a while.

I have no idea why people like this shit. Allegedly I’ve been told it’s either a statement about capitalism vs communism or Superman vs Lex Luthor but I didn’t see anything interesting said about either conflict. And the finale where Superman just runs off to be a reporter feels like the same halfassed forced happy ending as the one where Supes was raised on Apokalips. What the shit, if you’re going to deconstruct Superman as an asshole don’t try to have your cake and eat it with a last minute “happy ending”. Own that shit, nerds.

I agree totally with you, seems even Snyder understand this and is writing his JL outside of ideas of Bendis in Superman and King in Batman. Sadly is not that good and Didio enforces his bullshit on other series.
>Pic semirelated, also if you pay atention you will catch who Miss Martian goes comando.

Attached: mm comando.jpg (1349x2048, 667K)

What the actual fuck are you talking about

Because marv wolfman didnt want to retcon HIS characters

>and Vertigo characters into the DC universe?
That was always an editorial fight. not an actual published fight.
DC characters who moved to the Vertigo imprint were considered to still be DC characters (Dream/specifically Daniel kept being referenced as late as 2006) until the end of Infinite Crisis. After that, Didio declared that they were part of a different universe, specifically on none of the new 52 Earths. Johns had to have Hector Hall Doctor Fate and Lyta killed off as a result of that, and because Steve Gerber wanted to do a Doctor Fate story with a new Original Character (who sucked).
That only lasted until 2010, which is when Didio tried to sell Action Comics 893 and 984 as Death of the Endless' "First DCU appearance - forget about Captain Atom please" edition

Gutters, bitch

So why didn't Swamp Thing become Alec Holland again?
The obtuse point I'm trying to get at is that not all characters rebooted when CoIE ended. The big three had changes of course. Superman got rebooted in a way that allowed writers to stick old stories into his history to keep them canon (Man of Steel making it so Superman had been active for around a decade). Batman had Year One, but that didn't mean that the next stories took place during year one.
Wonder Woman was 100% rebooted.

Black Wally.

It says something that the current Vertigo import is somehow more seamless and coherent than most previous efforts despite my not being sure where the fuck Lucifer being the second greatest force under the heavens and the Presence fit into the Perpetua/Multi-multiversal Source/Bleed shit. Especially when they've implied the Great Darkness is behind the Otherkind in JLD and that the God Sphere extends down there.

None of the new ideas are selling. Didio himself admitted this. The only stuff that's profitable is based on stories from 20 years ago at the earliest.

>Wonder Woman was 100%
I will never be astounded at how much more nonsensical this made her history. What the SHIT was the point of making the First Born as a life model dummy? And dummy Hecate having a crush on Zeus just seems vindictive in light of the current JLD run.

>Is not character assassination, is an alternate version of the character in a clearly different universe.
Funny to say that after proclaiming that Waid made a masterful story thanks to his knowledge of everything DC.

Bullshit. Injustice Superman isn’t like Ultraman who started off as a bad guy.

Injustice Superman was a Superman who became corrupted because of tragedy. Just because the character assasination was the point of the story, doesn’t mean it’s not character assasination

That’s not me. Also I never said that. I was talking about a theoretical situation where someone with autistic knowledge on DCU’s history could be in-charge of the reboot. Not wether they’d actually write the stories. I doubt Kevin Feige wrote any of the movies.

The new heroes that are pretty much villains in everything but naming, no reason being given for the established heroes to turn bad other than just Superman not being there anymore to keep them straight, the complete misunderstanding of Wonder Woman's background and character just so she can be a plot device to spurn Superman into action, the plot trying to condem and alleviate Superman at the same time, the happy ending that shits all over the whole message of the plot, and so on.

Lack of planning
Should have let Morrison and John's finish their Batman and Green Lantern runs in the old universe

I really want the august numbers already. I want to see just how much better the facsimile copies of key issues are selling compared to new ones.
That fucker knew when he asked the audience "did anyone here buy them" that those issues didn't come out for another month.

You mean Wally's great great great great great great etc etc grandson who's being forced to LARP as him because of Barry?

>Still pushing this meme

Attached: image.jpg (210x240, 18K)

>The only one they HAVE to continue to print is fucking WW
That was resolved years before nu52

bad creators across the board

Black Wally.

Nigger Wally.

It's not really new though, it's basically the same shit with new packaging.

That only applies to Marvel. When will DC ever use a new non-Batman concept in another medium?

but would that really solve the problem? It seems to not update anything and people wouldnt like how the new age retcon would be reenacted.

They didn't go full reboot.

Literally nothing. It started strong and dominated the Top 10 for over a year. What doomed the New 52 was Convergence and DCYou.

Let's reboot everything.
>Grant/Geoff: nah we cool, well just continue our runs
>Didio: okay lads.
Gee I wonder.

>Why did DC reboot their comics, and then retcon the reboot, but never complete the retcon of the reboot?
FTFY

More like
>Didio: WE'RE MOTHERFUCKING REBOOTING EVERYTHING!!!
>Grant/Geoff: When?
>Didio: IN LIKE HALF A MOTHERFUCKING YEAR MOTHERFUCKERS!
>Grant/Geoff: We're continuing our runs, you piece of shit.
>Also Geoff: I'M GOING TO HELP HELM THE REBOOT AND THEN BLAME IT ON ALAN MOORE WHEN IT ALL GOES TO SHIT

Aquaman, Animal Man, Frankenstein and agents of Shade, Dial H and Action Comics (although I know it has a lot of critics) started out pretty good. Batman Inc was good, but Morrison kind of ignored the reboot.

>Blame it on Moore
Context?
I too blame him, bu only because he's bitter and probably put some gypo curse on them.

Zero Hour COMPLETELY rebooted the many "alternate timelines" that DC had at the time. Infinite Crisis brought back the multiverse itself, effectively rebooting said "alternate universes" in the process.

The Crisis on Infinite Earths was basically a way for DC to shed its Silver Age history. At the time DC carried a stigma of being associated with those campy "Silver Age comics" and creatively they were moving away from that kind of stuff (and actually becoming even more "Mature Readers" than Marvel was [see: Swamp Thing]), so it's understandable that they wanted to establish a single shared continuity, ala Marvel.

See:

There's a difference between a "reboot" and a "reset". You don't seem to understand that.

Thats the underlying meta message of Rebirth. Johns blaming Moore for the shift to grimdark stories because of Watchmen. And Doomsday Clock was meant to be DC fighting back against Moore, culminating in their victory and a return to a more lighthearted DC.

Its just Johns passing the buck for how dogshit n52 was.

We will never know because of the fuck up that is Doomsday Clock

But is it really a reboot if the old universes are still canon?

What new 52 runs are worth reading?

If I ever see Geoff John's I'm a punch that mutherfucker on the nose.

new52 wasn't a failure, now rebirth, what a colossal waste of time.

>yfw you are still waiting the big reveal of doomsday clock