Spider-Man is not allowed to look up to other superheroes

I was pointing out Yea Forums's hateboner for the character. Thank you for proving me right.

I also proved the logic behind hating the notion of Peter looking up to Tony.

Why wouldn't it be Tony? Peter's a science geek who invented his own webshooters and fluid why wouldn't he look up to the guy who makes his own equipment as well? Not to mention that it's been confirmed the little kid in IM2 was Peter too so added to the fact that Tony actually saved the kid before he became Spider-Man

This depends entirely on the writer user.
Ditko barely focused on Uncle Ben outside of AF #15 and, "If this be my Destiny." To which Ben wasn't relevant until "Spider-Man No More" because Peter literally forgets the reason he became Spider-Man in the first place. The same shit applies for Ultimate.
Spider-Man, much like Batman and Superman, is a character that has gone through countless writers and interpretations. And some writers like to focus on certain aspects of a character more than others.

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>Ditko barely focused on Uncle Ben outside of AF #15 and, "If this be my Destiny."
I guess the first annual doesn't exist.

See

Because Tony fucked up over and over again betraying his friends over and over again and put the planet in danger over and over again.

Now this maniac is trying to lecture a kid over a fucking boat?

Yes. FF was the hottest shit when he tried to join them, and he wasn't phased in the slightest, and only did it because Parkers were desperate for money.
Disney's Iron shill is OOC for the sake of conditioning the audience reject anything not from the MCU, except their writers are hacks, as opposed to some of the very talented 60-70s Marvel artists who put out very good and, more importantly, genuine work.

Think of it like that: Peter having to work at 15 was outdated even in the 60s, but it was a part of Ditko's life experience, and that's why it didn't feel out of place. On the other hand, MCU Iron boy consists primarily of 'Hello fellow kids' and 'Don't you love high-functioning sociopath Tony Stark? I sure do!'. He is nothing but a corporate tool in or out of the movie universe.

No, piss off. If anything, Peter should be representative of street-level opposition, and be used to introduce other street level characters into the world.

How about "Because Stark is a lying, manipulative, arrogant son of a bitch, and Peter's got a solid moral compass, not to mention a good amount of self-respect, so he'd never fall for that bullshit"?

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>implying that Tony "Literally a fascist and cause of every major problem in the marvel universe" Stark is a hero to look up to.

I know people meme about Steve after going back in time, but damn Tony made the worse a little worse every time he tried to solve an issue.

>Now this maniac is trying to lecture a kid over a fucking boat?
Not only that, he didn't even tell Peter that he had gotten his messages or that he sent the FBI after Vulture, which is fucking retarded because Tony of all people should know that regular people aren't equipped to handle alien tech.

Feel like If Iron Man wasn't the face of the MCU people would be less harsh on the Peter/Toby dyanmic. Bunch of Yea Forumsntarians

If Iron Man wasn't the face of the MCU, his villainous deeds would be more obvious, and the writers eventually would have to cut him down the size.
But no, it still wouldn't excuse raping Spider-man's character.

>Bunch of Yea Forumsntarians
Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that Spider-Man was made to be a teenage superhero that wasn't a sidekick or part of a group, and this version makes him exactly the opposite of that.

it really should have been Captain America considering hes a shining beacon of good morals and has been a fugitive in this Universe
if Spidey actually had a image problem in the MCU he would have related with Cap more

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he was doing that before meeting Tony. you're trying to make it look like he replaced Uncle Ben with Iron Man.

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Oh yea, I forgot that one fucking scene in that one movie that wasn't about Spider-Man.
Why does every retard use CW to defend the shit handling of the character?

what issue is this from?

because civil war was the closest he's come to being done properly

Sorry but Cap is already taken by another hero

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Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #3

Tony has money and his life together.

In the MCU? He literally allows to blackmail himself into a fight he doesn't even understand lol. Disney fucked him over from the start.
>Disney's """""Spider-man""""" becomes a lapdog of the first moneybag that approaches him on the grounds of him being rich and famous
That's really telling.

Peter is meant to struggle/ earn hero respect. Also he doesn't idolize drunked assholes despite ironman in the mcu being a way better person.

>In the MCU? He literally allows to blackmail himself into a fight he doesn't even understand
Well you don't have to worry about that anymore, because his identity has already been revealed.

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In the Mcu universe it makes since for Spider-Man to look up to Tony. Being a child at the time of Iron man he would've seen Tony's rise to international stardom as a superhero.
Uncle Ben as motivation was something to be more was supposed to be understood by the audience.

>Iron Man sold tools that killed children
And Peter let Uncle Ben die. Are you saying it's strange he looks up to another hero looking to make up for his mistakes rather than the one who never did anything wrong in his entire life?

Could you try again in English?

Feige said this kid in IM2 was Peter. youtube.com/watch?v=s8WXpA9pJms

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No, the point is, the burglar incident makes Peter hyper-aware of his moral choices. Actual Peter's character wouldn't make any deals with him because he would start feeling his conscience tingling even before Stark finishes talking.
Iron Boy blindly worships Stark throughout everything. He is a brown-noser without much of a moral core to speak of.

I understood what you meant, I was just making fun of the fact that he's not even out of high-school and his identity has already been revealed.

Can't Sony now sue Marvel for using Peter Parker on a movie without their permission?

Third reboot WHEN?

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>And Peter let Uncle Ben die
No actual proof of this in the movies

That's another thing they fucked up, the Bugle was supposed to be the most respected paper in NY and now it's a shitty Info Wars knockoff.

>the Bugle was supposed to be the most respected paper in NY
This has never been the case, ever.

>t. J. Jonah Jameson

Well after what he did with Mysterio that's probably a good idea. On the other hand he did a great job of picking up Tony's career of empowering or otherwise creating villains, so there's that. Okay, fine, technically he and Tony shared this one, but still it is a start.

Yes it has. The Bugle is a reputable paper JJJ may have a stick up his ass about Spider-Man but he's a damn good journalist.

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Read comics.
Writers love portraying Jonah as a wacky crazy old man nowadays but he was always a top tier journalist that made sure the bugle was the best news source of new york, spider-Man autism aside

MCU Peter Parker's Uncle Ben IS Tony Stark.

>He is a brown-noser without much of a moral core to speak of.
He deliberately disobeys Tony to do what's right all throughout Homecoming.

>No, the point is, the burglar incident makes Peter hyper-aware of his moral choices.
Peter still takes a long time growing as a person before he stops fucking shit up constantly, he didn't immediately become hyper-aware of shit.

And what happens when Peter tells Tony to go fuck himself?
Turns out that Peter was in the wrong because Tony called the FBI and he put the lives of the people on the boat in danger, Tony takes his fancy suit away while Peter almost breaks down and then he goes back home with his tail between his legs.

And he still goes out to do the right thing, stopping Vulture from stealing the fucking Hulkbuster.

Then he goes back to being buddy-buddy with Tony without giving him any more shit and he says "you were right about taking it too fast and I should stick to the street level stuff".

He was right, Peter doing what's right doesn't mean he wasn't also reckless as fuck. They both had points, there's no issue with this.

>They both had points
No, Tony did not have a fucking point when Vulture was selling fucking alien tech to fucking common thugs.
If he really wanted to take Peter under his wing he shouldn't have put Happy as a middleman and cause a bunch of unnecessary bullshit to happen, seriously, a fucking message saying "Hey kid, I'm taking care of Vutlure so you don't need to keep going after him, great job by the way" shouldn't be too fucking hard to do when he was calling Peter throughout the movie.

He tells Peter that the problem will be handled and Peter for some reason assumes he was just blowing him off. It's entirely Pete's fault that he dove in anyway. Also, while the FBI were on the boat, Tony was also nearby and ready to swoop in if he was needed, which thanks to Peter he was.

Why did he call the FBI when he could've gone after Vulture himself in the first place?

Because he's bound by the Sokovia Accords which he respects and can't just go do vigilante shit wherever he feels like it.

So he can't go to stop the guy selling alien technology in New York city, but he can act after the FBI fucks up and lets the guy get away.

>he doesn't know who or where vulture is
>they're trying to capture his associates for information
>iron man is given permission to step in if he's needed, which he is, but ideally they can pull this off without making a scene

>>he doesn't know who or where vulture is
He should've known who the Vulture is if Peter was calling constantly to tell Happy what the fuck was going on, and even if he wasn't allowed to go after Vulture he could've searched for him via the alien tech, which would've made the FBI's job easier.
>>they're trying to capture his associates for information
And what's stopping Vulture from saving or killing the people that got captured? He pulled a gun on a teenager just because he knew who he was.
>>iron man is given permission to step in if he's needed, which he is, but ideally they can pull this off without making a scene
That's just fucking retarded, the FBI didn't have the equipment to handle the situation.

If Pete hadn't been on the scene the FBI would have apprehended everyone. The bad guys weren't holding space lasers in their fucking hands. They had them packed up because they were making a sale. Peter jumping in gave Toomes time and a distraction so he could getin his van and suit up.

Bitch, watch Civil war.
He's a super hero before Tony started grilling him. (though that kind of makes the whole "I'm nothing without the suit" not make a lot of sense, but whatever)
He essentially rephrased the power/responsibility line in Civil war to explain why he does what he does.

MR. STARK

...

because despite it not being his movie, it's still his first appearance, and a part of the character's arc.

if they never felt the need to explain his powers before he shows up because everyone already knows them, then why would you assume they won't do the same for his backstory?
funnily enough we never learn what makes Steve Rogers so gosh-darn much of a good boy, but we don't really need to.

........

>and a part of the character's arc.
So he goes from being a hero doing shit on his own that's forced to fight a battle that has nothing to do with him because some other guy blackmails him, to following that guy's every word, trying to do shit to impress him and crying over a suit (that goes against what the previous movie established) and then he comes to the realization that he should go back to doing what he was doing before meeting that one guy.

>funnily enough we never learn what makes Steve Rogers so gosh-darn much of a good boy, but we don't really need to.
You fucking what?
Did you miss the entire first arc of First Avenger?

>then why would you assume they won't do the same for his backstory?
Did the director say in an interview that there's a chance that it wasn't the spider that gave him those powers?

>gets a taste of a larger world with bigger stakes than the street level stuff he'd been doing
Also the suit does so much useful shit like numerous utility webbings and has a detective supercomputer built in. It's completely reasonable that he'd think he'd need that stuff to do Avengers-level action, and he kinda does at this point in his career.

And now they've shown the next logical step by having Far From Home Pete design his own suit to fit his needs.

>It's completely reasonable that he'd think he'd need that stuff to do Avengers-level action, and he kinda does at this point in his career.

>I'm nothing without the suit
doesn't sound like
>I need the suit to be on the Avengers

>Spider-Man is not allowed to being independent and need to rely on other people
FTFY

>not allowed to being

This.

Most people who complain Iron Boy are also completely fine with Miles

It's rather telling how well zoomers embraced a driveless, identityless, not that closeted Spider-man.

True, Miles' popularity with zoomers is damning

Miles isn't popular compared to his MCU palette swap. Just think how Holland-man took off by being a poor bootleg of Miles, who himself is already a bootleg of a poor bootleg Peter, without his one and only character aspect, the idpol bait, while somehow having even less of a backbone than the Bendis spawn. Crazy how far industrial marketing can get you.

Based twink, making bank and Spider-Kino

Shut up nigger

Other M levels of lack of agency.

Great try there buddy

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This is nothing new, shitty modern writers get paid millions for shitty scripts that build an epic conflict that would get resolved instantly with one phonecall

>writers
>millions
Kek

This is your home. Go, you are free now.

>Iron Man
>Hero

Paul Jenkins' oneshot Spidey stories were kino.

I don't know anyone who actually likes Spider-Man and thinks Miles is fine

>I know people meme about Steve after going back in time,
Actually this was also Tony's idea in canon. Talk about fucking up everything

No because it was a retcon after they finished their rights deal

He didn't, it was Tom Holland saying it was a cool fan theory and it got clickbaited into oblivion so now people think it's canon.

Sometimes they do

>his life together.
LMAO, no

>WAAAAAAAAH Y ISNT SPOODERMAN LIKE IN DAH COMICZZZZ
spiderfags are insufferable

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>aka the most irresponsible motherfucker on earth is just ridiculous.
But Tony was 1000% right during Civil War in the MCU

Not really, because in the comics he had respect for Cap and during Civil War he fought Cap and opposed him despite having that respect for him. Then for a chunk of Civil War he saw Iron Man as a mentor but he wasn't his yes man. His relationship with Tony was that of equals but he questioned Tony and questioned the pro-reg's motives until he found enough reason to leave them. And hell before he switched side he had a meeting with Cap to see if Cap's side of things because he still wasn't sure he wanted to join the anti-reg side despite the fact he had quit the pro-reg side.

Another person he looks up in the comics is Reed Richards and that was after he got to know the guy because in order for Peter to look up to someone they have to earn his respect. Even with Cap Peter didn't fanboy him or anything, he saw him like any other hero and it wasn't until Steve approached him one day and they had a talk and Peter opening up to him about a problem that Peter started to seriously like him.

In the MCU he is pretty much Tony's yes man and attack dog from day one to the point he even admits he doesn't know why Tony sent him to go after Captain America in Homecoming. "Cap went crazy or something" is his excuse. Compare that to the comics when the Avengers send him to bring in the Hulk as a test to join them and Spidey is eager but once he finds out how the Hulk was hunted and harassed and just wanted to be left alone he decided he wasn't going to do it. In the MCU it also feels like Tony just took advantage of a naive boy and used him in his fight against Cap and then Peter dies and he just serves as angst for Iron Man. Fuck that.

Die.

>You

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Tony is about holding others accountable and he played along with the law because of his guilt but lets face it said accountabilities didn't apply to him. He breaks the accords himself in the movie and outside Civil War those rules didn't really matter that much. Especially in Far From Home and especially with EDITH.

rent free

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There's nothing wrong with him simply looking up to other heroes. He looked up to Reed and Cap for example. MCU take is just way beyond that, he's a borderline sycophant and gets everything handed to him on a silver plate. There wasn't a single pivotal scene in Homecoming that didn't involve Stark somehow and FFH wasn't much better in that department.
These are true
In spirit for sure, but they keep trying to reference Ben in these extremely subtle ways for whatever reason. Either way it's fucked

>cause of every major problem in the marvel universe
What "every major problem"? He was responsible for Ultron and the events surrounding it and that's it. Ross coming in with the Accord's would happened sooner or later without Ultron because of the Avengers racking up problem after problem in the international sphere. And don't say his own villains because they were all adults with their own moral responsibility and accountability that they failed to uphold. Obadiah was a bad apple from the beginning that illegally sold under the table to satisfy his greed. Vanko had nothing to do with Tony himself and was all Howard. Killian got pissy and created a highly lethal biotech weapon because Tony snubbed him and his unproven start up project. Toomes could've went on with his life and got another honest, respectable job but decided to put himself on the path of villainry because Tony wanted to clean up the streets of dangerous alien tech and Mysterio proved himself to be an unstable individual just because he didn't like the name Tony gave his tech.

>DUDE MY MOTIVATION IN THIS MOVIE IS THAT IM SAD SOME COLLEGE KID DIED

>SO IM GOING TO KIDNAP THIS UNDERAGE ORPHANED BOY AND LIE TO HIS GUARDIAN ABOUT WHERE I'M TAKING HIM SO I CAN USE HIM IN A SUPER HERO SLUGFEST AT AN AIRPORT, LOL I DONT REALLY NEED HIM AND SOMEONE GETS CRIPPLED BUT ITS TOTALLY SAFE

>And don't say his own villains because they were all adults with their own moral responsibility and accountability that they failed to uphold.
How many more fucking times are they going to do the "Tony was mean to me and Im now a super villain" plot? IM3 and both Spider-Man films did it.

If Iron Man wasn't the face of the MCU, Spider-man wouldn't have a relationship with him.

This is about branding pure and simple.

Maybe its the fact that Iron Man in the MCU is a hypocrite who is never called out in any meaningful way, and that his relationship with Peter seems unhealthy.

And that is why these are bad Spider-man movies.

Peter's an everyman's hero because he looked up to an actual everyman. MCU!Peter looks up a billionare CEO superhero.
That changes a fundamental aspect of the story.

Hopefully they stop with the upcoming phase but I don't have much hope for the MCU but at least I won't be watching anything after FFH anyway. It'd be fine if they did that kind of motivation once since it would fit in with Tony having to clean up the messes of his past mistakes but doing it thrice is too much especially when 2 out of those 3 times it's not him dealing with it himself.