Why doesn't Yea Forums enjoy Tom King's run on Batman?

His run it’s just boring

It's a little presumptuous to think you know how Tom King is "coping" with his PTSD and labeling it unhealthy.

The fucking "Oatmeal: Bacon Reddit Narwals LOL" won an Eisner. It's been worthless for over a decade.

either way, he's got weird ideas of how to deal with trauma. The one time actual psychiatric care was brought up in a Tom King comic, it was wildly ineffective and made someone into a mass murderer, on top of just being a blatant misrepresentation of what trauma therapy actually is. Most of his comics are centered around a strong woman saving a traumatized man, and Batman is no exception.

I dunno, he just feels way broodier than usual. I'm also not a fan of the whole "Batman is suicide" thing or how Catwoman talks about Batman.
There are other things from his run that I dislike but also kinda erased from my mind at some point so I couldn't really explain it well.

It's just Ladderbro samefagging.

Mainly because King is writing a story wherein Batman fails more than he wins, Batfags are spoiled on the idea that Batman can only lose once every five or so years, and that will be quickly fixed within a year or so

I like how you're pretending most superheroes don't win more than they fail and this is somehow a trait unique to Batman

God that would be really pathetic. I'd hate to be lumped in with those people. It also feels like most of them just plain hate Catwoman. Selina's probably the best fit for Batman.

>The one time actual psychiatric care was brought up in a Tom King comic, it was wildly ineffective
Well disagree there as it was working for everyone but wally and that's because Wally was unwilling to actually put the work in.

it was working by writer fiat, in a "realistic" portrayal Wally would not have been the first one to snap

Usually by the end of an arc things have turned out mostly alright for the hero, with King’s Batman not a single arc has ended with Batman coming out looking like a winner or without a sense of defeat. Hell, even the first arc “I am Gotham” ended with Batman and Claire mourning the death of her brother after Batman failed to save them.

Maybe so but there's no way in fuck that Catwoman can one-shot 3 of the Flashes or beat Talia Al Ghul.

I'm aware, it's the second part of your post bitching about Batfagsthat made me chuckle

>that issue where Catwoman beats Talia Al Ghul while saying how she's barely ever used a sword

>in a "realistic" portrayal Wally would not have been the first one to snap
Debatable. Can you imagine the strain of having memories of a non-existant family? I personally believe that bringing back post crisis wally was a huge mistake because he's such a stranger.

>no way she can beat Talia al Ghul
Talia isn't lady shiva, she's a mid tier fighter and Catwoman has the feats to make her an upper tier fighter.

Catwoman is Cancer.

if you thought people were dropping F bombs about Batman 76, you are not ready for Batman 77..i reed it.

Yeah I still think it's bullshit though. As well as every issue of Tom King's Batman outside of #67 and Elmer Fudd.

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Counterpoint: Catwoman isn't cancer.

>hy doesn't Yea Forums enjoy Tom King's run on Batman?
It is boring.

What happens?

Catwoman is big Cancer.

I bet it's more nothing

I'm not asking for bets the guy said that he read #77 and I want to know what he knows.

Selina is not Bats Number One.

Who is? is he fucking gay

. This issue is going to melt your face.
Batdad is back.

Some people will be very upset,This is comics after all and King has a tendency to loop things back. I mean Ventilriloquist is currently the Wayne Manor butler working in the Batcave. So...

Because comic fans are tasteless idiots who don’t know a good comic of it slapped them in the face. They want the same thing over and over again. They want Saturday morning cartoons and action figure smashing. And they’ve always been tasteless idiots. Don’t believe me? Go read some of the negative letters (back when they actually printed negative letters) for stuff like Claremont XMen, Moore Swamp Thing, Batman Year One.

>Because comic fans are tasteless
eat Shit ...

If anyone needs a palette cleansor from Tom King's shlock, I will happily shill my favorite Batman run of all time: Alan Grant and (the late) Norm Breyfogle's tenure on 'Tec, Batman, and Shadow of the Bat. Sure, it's not the deepest or the grandest, but the art is top-notch and Batman isn't some deeply traumatized and suicidal loser. This is a Batman that can deduce a villain's grand scheme by examining a broken wine glass, this is a Batman who will take time out of his night to make sure that some kids living in the ghetto have every chance they need to succeed. This is a Batman who genuinely cares for the people in his life and doesn't beat his adopted son. Also a lot of cool new villains are introduced such as the Ventriloquist, Ratcatcher, the Obdeah Man, and old characters are completely revamped such as the Penguin or Basil Carlo the first Clayface.

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I like both

Or maybe the mistake was getting rid of him at all, you disingenuous shitposter.

This.

Nah I agree with that user. Talia would have had all the training that Damian had and more. Selina shouldn't be able to take her in a fight.
The 3 flashes thing didn't bother me in that issue. Kings contradictory depiction of Superman's powers is much worse

>Talia would have had all the training that Damian had and more
Not really, She wasn't meant to be a warrior but breeding stock. And again, Catwoman has got the feats to back her up while Talia doesn't.

I don't understand how anyone could read WOJAR and think "yes, this is a good comic that is worth reading"

Catwoman sucks.
This series seems absolutely terrible. If it weren't for the art no one would stand for this garbage. Much like Scott Snyder's run- dogshit writing with phenomenal artwork.

Cool story, bro. Cat is still shit.

It’s the lowest point of the run , yes

it doesn't really improve from there, it just starts the Great Wheel-Spinning

Well, Marvel get sweeped and didn't get nothing noteworthy. Even Memortal Hulk go back to home empty handed.

I don't even read cape comics often and I hate him. All it took was a storytime of a shitty one-off about Bruce, Selina, Clark, and Lois double-dating at a county fair for me to see that he's an awful writer. The women were exchanging catty "men, am I right?" remarks and the men had quiet, awkward conversation peppered with random dick-swinging competitions. It was trite as fuck, painfully so. I'd even Brian "squeeze as many paragraphs into this panel humanly possible" Bendis' wordiness over King's vapid, cookie-cutter dialogue cliches.

I liked this direction that the current Batman run is going, it's trying to put Batman in places where he's vulnerable and let someone else in on it, it feels like something we've seen before but also new and different. With that being said, it doesn't really balance it out with Batman being an all out Badass against any major villain. The way King writes also feels like a story is dragging on forever, especially when he got captured under the fear toxin. I've read a comic and had no fucking clue whats going on but never bored out my mind while reading it. I think King has interesting ideas, but fails at execution during long overarching narratives.

Sounds gay satan, like an adaptation from the Adam West's Batman.

>it's not the deepest or the grandest
It's not grand in terms of scope, but in terms of overall freshness and creativity it carried a lot of momentum. It's a classic run and rightfully so. It's one of my favorites, too.

Is Catwoman still a thief in his run? I feel it’s weird Batman marrying a criminal, but no one seems to care her being a thief when they engaged or broke up in #50.

even Squirrel Girl and Slott's terrible Doctor Who fanfiction aka Silver Surfer won Eisners

they are a joke

His sales are also falling and was beaten by the Immortal Hulk and X-Men.

Just curious, what are the odds of BatCat getting married in his run?

X-Men makes sense, it has huge hype behind it. I'm still shocked Immortal Hulk is doing so well.

With Catwoman’s return, Batman #75 has beaten Hulk again.

nope

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>With Catwoman’s return, Batman #75 has beaten Hulk again.
No Fans hate Cat-sue
ttps://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2019/2019-07.html

Batman 75 is on the list twice, because of a card stock variant or something . Check out the bleeding cool article .

>user said Batman 75
>you post Batman 74

GEE user WHAT'S FUCKING UNDER BATMAN 74

>DC had to resort to a gimmick variant to get Batman to outsell Hulk
the absolute state

>Sales are failing
I guess that's true if you think it's a zero sum game but selling in the 70,000 range is still more than decent numbers.
Not that sales means anything in terms of quality.

Call me when Immortal Hulk is still selling high past the 40th issue.

Batman's sales are undeniably flagging under King, though. Morrison sold around 80-90K for the entirety of his run, Snyder regularly sold over 100K, but King comes on and it's been a long slow tumble to where we are now. Part of it is because of double shipping, but people are just straight up losing interest. While you're right that sales don't equal quality (look at fucking Batman-Who-Laughs topping the charts), there has been a marked decline in King's sales over the course of his run.

Didn’t Snyder’s Batman always sell more than 100,000? It’s natural to feel Batman’s sales is failing now.

I don’t care who sells more . I wish you people wouldn’t talk about it so much. It’s like threads talking about box office Numbers. Who cares?

>Slott's terrible Doctor Who fanfiction aka Silver Surfer won Eisners
The Allreds on Silver Surfer is the worst thing I ever did with that damn paw

Exactly my thoughts. Corporate media has tricked us into caring about this shit like it matters.

It’s so exhausting to watch, people picking “sides” like it’s a sporting event or something. These are multi billion dollar corporations, they’re going to be fine, and they certainly don’t care about any of us

And these are Hulk and Batman comics too. No matter how good or bad a run they have you can damn well expect that the next writer will just go back to the basics.

If the reason King leaving Batman title earlier than the first plan is his failing sales, l do care about the sales.

But it's not.

I want Hulk to do well because I like Al Ewing and want him to get more and more high-profile work.
I want Batman to fail (or at least do worse than before) because I don't like King and want him to get less work (but this is a bit of a pipe dream because he's making the jump to movies, although hopefully he fails at that endeavor as well)
That's why I care about sales.

Talia was trained all her life and that's canon. The only reason Selina won that fight is because King thinks the needs to throw every other person in Bruce's life under the bus to show us how special Selina is. Which is also the main reason I hate his version of her.

No one knows the truth.

>Talia was trained all her life and that's canon.
You can count the fights Talia won on one hand. She just does not have any showing for this supposed training.

we know the truth, he's leaving Batman early to write the New Gods movie

Ok but what will talking about these numbers do? We all know the numbers. We all know where to find them. We all see them every month in the comichron thread. Shut the fuck up about sales already . Talk about the quality of the comic or sod off

Well the quality is also shit. The art is probably the only thing good about run.

alright, King's Batman is shit and anyone who likes it is an idiot

The reason Selina won the fight is because Catwoman but Talia was never gonna win the fight regardless who was writing her. Talia is a sensual character while Catwoman is a physical character.
Talia lounges around in silk robes while Catwoman jumps around on rooftops.

>the art
is Janin gone permanently, because otherwise the art is shit too

Good to hear . sales.. check. King is a hack... check. Ok we need to shit on Bendis and didio and then we can call it a wrap

If you believe so, that’s OK. But l just don’t believe that. He is still writing Bat/Cat while writing new gods. There was no need to leave Batman to write new gods movie.

we can shit on Snyder too while we're at it

Well I say otherwise.
King's Batman will go down as a masterful example of long form storytelling.

Scott or Zach

He's going from writing a bi-monthly book to a monthly book, that alone gives him a lot more time to work on other projects

I welcome Bendis if he would kill or erase Catwoman.

Main Batman title also becomes monthly shipping in 2020.

King's Batman is filled with stretches where nothing happens, the main plot does not advance, and endless navel-gazing. It has fucking filler arcs, for God's sake. The minute WOJAR started, and with it the Great Wheel-Spinning, you lost the right to even call it good long-form storytelling. To call KingBat a masterpiece in any capacity is laughable, to call it a masterpiece of long-form storytelling is actively insulting to actual masterpieces of long-form storytelling like MorrisonBat or Saga of the Swamp Thing.

Because King is leaving. It was supposed to be bi-monthly for all 100 issues.

I disagree ipso facto King's Batman is good.

it has the same prblem every modern comic has: TOO FUCKING STRETCHED OUT! for fuck's sake why can't modern comic writers keep their stories in one or two issues max? there's nothing substantial in an issue of King's Batman. it's boring.

why do I bother

>filler arcs
Not a thing in comics.

It’s not just King’s book that becoming monthly in 2020.

WOJAR is absolutely a filler arc

most of King's Batman is a filler arc

>Eisners
You mean the meaningless comicbook reward to show that comicbooks are serious business and should be taken seriously?

You want to talk about quality? Okay.

His Batman sucks. Not because he's not winning, but because he combines being bad at his job with being an egotistical, whiny, asshole, who tortures criminals and treats his family like shit. Why should I root for this guy again? Because he's sad? I have news for you: Everyone in this universe has bad things happen to them on a daily basis.

His relationship with Catwoman: Apparently she is the only one who truly understands him now. Sorry Dick, we need to shoot you in the head, you undermine King's batcat. Also has her mock his mission repeatedly. Glad to see that what Bruce and his allies risk their lives for is a joke to her.

The plot: A villain tries to break Batman!!! But this time it's mentally!
That's not new, Snyder did it with the Court of Owls and Morrison also had a storyline with that plot. Nothing new here.
Bane's plan is ridiculous and the most convoluted and unlikely to suceed plan I have seen in a long while. Bane taking over the city isn't original either. It doesn't help that King didn't show us how he took over the city. He just slapped a page with "later" in front of it so he doesn't have to explain anything.
All of this feels like a worse version of Knightfall with some batcat thrown into the mix to get shippers to buy this book.

>WOJAR is absolutely a filler arc
It's not tho, it's a bridging arc.

How about Thomas Wayne? He is the true villain and unique point of King’s run.

>bad at his job
Batman has always been bad at his job. Being bad at his job is the only way these comics can continue. If he was good at his job then he wouldn't be dealing with the same rogues gallery.

>does not advance the main plot
>six issues for Batman to say "I almost killed a guy once"
>and it's all a flashback
if this shit happened in an anime, everyone would moan about filler

King sells like shit.
ttps://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2019/2019-07.html
/%

People are sick of broken heroes who can't save anyone and ruin everything they touch.

>does not advance the main plot
It does though, it's actually crucial for the plot.

SERIOUSLY???

But what does that have to do with King's Batman.

I dont need more cat-bat-bat-cat autism.

Fuck off zoomer

no it isn't, Batman asking Catwoman if it's alright that he almost killed someone and her saying "yeah sure whatever who cares" does nothing to advance the main plot

King fans confirmed to never read comics.

Talia is a fucking assassin.

Everything, since that's how Batman has been portrayed throughout his run.

Yeah it is, doesn't take a genius to realize the "war" between the joker and the riddler will play a part in the penultimate City of bane climax.

>Won 3 Eisners in a row during the run
Like those have mattered for the last decade

It's been 26 issues since he arrived in the main universe and King still hasn't explained how. That's one thing that's annoying.

I don't think he's a well written antagonist. His actions contradict his character in the button and are pretty dumb. I'm going to save you from being Batman! By ruining your life, because I'm suddenly insane! Wow. Great. He should team up with Jor-El, they would get along great.

Oh I disagree there. Batman hasn't really ruined anyone and actually really hard to save innocents.

>Talia is a fucking assassin
Which in comic book scaling put her slighty above everyday thug.

>i-it'll be important later!
yeah, ok retard

Total coincidence that the joker and riddler are getting focus working as partner for Police commissioner Hugo Strange. Y'know, the same hugo strange whose brainwashing is crucial for Bane's plan?

I can't stand how he writes Catwoman. His hyper-damaged take on Batman is kinda fun, but Catwoman is fun because despite her eccentricities and clear, obvious issues she's grounded in comparison. She's usually closer to being "human" than Batman and his rogues are, and in King's stuff she's about as big of a weirdo as Bruce is if not moreso and she won't stop meowing like a goddamn furry.

And no way is the fact that WOJAR was all about Batman being manipulated by it is gonna figure into Thomas Wayne arrogantly thinking that he did what Batman could not and gave Gotham peace.
And no way is it gonna be revealed that Gotham Girl has been brainwashed by Hugo Strange and that she's gonna break out of it at the most crucial moment.

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Like who? The only thing we have seen since 50 is:

Him torturing Freeze to confess to a crime he didn't commit. He sees that he was wrong at the end of the arc, but is back to torturing criminals for information on Bane in issue 60.

Before issue 60 he was busy with nearly killing Kgbeast.

After issue 60 he spends 9 issues stuck in a Nightmare.

After he wakes up he punches Arkham inmates, but only to save himself. Which is fine, but not really saving innocent people.

After that he gets beaten by Bane and gets dragged around the world, mostly unconscious, by Thomas and later Selina.

We have seen him punch more of his allies than him saving any innocent people for a long while now. What are you reading?

I still can't believe they spent nine fucking issues on the Nightmare

So him fighting psychotic villains isn't saving innocents?
Even though stopping psychotic villains will save innocent lives.
Even though defeating Bane will save gotham and ergo saving innocent lives?

He doesn't bring any of them behind bars, he's just torturing them. He hasn't saved anyone.

And the conclusion of the arc was just “Batman doesn’t love Catwoman”. That was really terrible.

>He hasn't saved anyone.
But he has.

And I disagree.

>He doesn't bring any of them behind bars
Most if not all of his villains escape prison and he spends most of him time beating them up AKA "torturing" them.
I guess Batman was always a bad hero.

I thought that the conclusion was that Batman loves Catwoman but is too broken, traumatized and damaged to be in any positive relationship with anyone.

You'd be wrong.

Oh, I don't think I am.

Maybe he is. Only this time he isn't even trying to be better.

Gee. It's almost as if people are sick of this flood of deconstructionist defeatist post-modern superhero garbage.

but at least he puts them in prison in the first place. Arkham and Blackgate may as well be made of Swiss cheese, but he undeniably puts in the effort to make sure they go to prison.

>Only this time he isn't even trying to be better.
But he is.

Suicide is Batman's one true love.

Name me five titles

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Oh good. I am not insane for remembering Batman comics were good at some point.

Batman needs a new writer. We're not Tom King's therapist.

Tom King tricked himself into thinking he writes like Alan Moore.

His Batman is meh at best. Somebody said his Batman had the dialog of a thot and I have to agree.

No. King's Catwoman sucks. I remember loving the hell out of prior Catwoman runs.

I read Morrison Batman and Robin again last month and it was like night and day

I despise Tom King’s Batman. He turned the character into a beta male simp who comes across as whiny and extremely mentally unstable to the point where he’s starting to become no different than his arch enemies. Tom King tries to make a complex story but he doesn't understand how a complex story should work. Having events not make sense is not complex, it's just nonsense.

I really liked reading his Batman run for a few volumes. But almost everything after "I am Bane" felt super pointless. Almost as if King was just padding out his run in between major arcs. Even the major arcs managed to fall flat most of the time. War of Jokes and Riddles left me with such a feeling of disgust and disbelief due to how ridiculous it was. And don't even get me started on when Batman goes to announce his marriage to everyone he knows when even the readers know it won't work out.

Whenever I talk to my friend about how trash King's writing became, he always brings up Kite-Man and "I am Bane" to defend it. But the series can only coast along on its past achievements for so long. I honestly wish it would've either ended earlier or gotten to the point quicker with the major plot points.

people who sucked off Omega Men and Vision so hard helped, and I will readily admit to being one of those people.

King's Batman has become an abomination.atman, the man who has been defeated by cuckening thanks to tom king and has the same consistency as a teenager cuz hormones and shit. almost a year since i took a break from the batman's main comicbook, no regreats.

I really regret not buying more of those older issues I missed when I started buying comics in the mid 90s. I think my Batman collection pretty much started right after Nightfall and Nightquest, once Bruce got back in the cowl.

I agree It will be shown in future issues, but that doesn’t make nightmare arc good or interesting.

Tom King's run on Batman is almost over. Thank God.

King's Batman is so incompetent that sometimes he almost seems like a secondary character in his own book. King's dialogue is certainly not my taste and imo makes the series drag.

Tom's Batman run isnt even fit to sit next to my toilet as emergency TP.

I like it, it's just kinda boring compared to other runs
Also
>Realistic examination of PTSD and trauma
is not really a selling point at this age when literally everything King writes is a realistic examination of PTSD and trauma, see HiC for more

Nightmare arc was interesting if you think of it as a look into Tom King's mind. The page where Batman buries his childhood self alive in a grave was told me all I needed to know.

To me, Tom King's run is utter garbage. He disrespected Batman in multiple occasions and portrayed him as an incompetent whining teenager. He also turned him into a mentally ill person who is suicidal. His plot has more holes than a Swiss cheese. Chronology is all over the place. Continuity is thrown out of the window many times. It's just lazy writing. This is the worst Batman run in history. Even the campy era is better than this pile of feces.

Tom king is possibly the most boring writer I've read. Everything I read from him I couldn't finish.

King's run is boring but there's absolutely no way Snyder's was better, stop being a snyderfag lol

Let's agree to disagree, then.

Snyder's run has the upsides of consistently good art and ending at 52 issues

Snyder's run was dumb, but at least it wasn't boring and masturbatory

King has been failing for a while now

It’s really fun too see what l hate is also hated by many people.

I agree, the run is garbage. King's problem is that he likes to needlessly traumatize characters and has no idea on how to have them overcome their issues.

It feels like King projects his own trauma and mental issues onto every character he writes.

How about some examples to support your arguments?

He's trying to find love with Catwoman ergo he is trying to do better.

Talia wasn't a fighter until Grant Morrison decided to make her a secret mastermind. Look at how she's barely physical at all in the animated series, where her and Ra's' appearances are based on the O'Neil/Adams run of the comics. She's roughly equivalent to the love interest in an Indiana Jones movie. I'd say "Bond Girl" but you might accidentally imagine her as one of the assassin ones like Famke Jannsen in Goldeneye when the ones I mean to compare her to are the more damsel-in-distress types.

In current continuity she is a fighter. It's been 13 years since Morrison changed her and now she is an assassin trained since birth who rules over criminal organizations most of the times.

And did fucking nothing to get her back or even talk about what happened after she left him. That's not trying to get better.

>Talia wasn't a fighter until Grant Morrison decided to make her a secret mastermind. L
Catwomanfags are Cancer.

Fuck King, thank god he's leaving

>Talia wasn't a fighter until Grant Morrison decided to make her a secret mastermind

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So... your just a contrarian troll than man

>Kingfags Shill Thread IV: The Revenge
>Guest Starring Tom King as "user"

Alan Grant's Batman is great, I especially love Ratcatcher.
>By the powers vested in me by Gotham City Sanitation Department, I hereby sentence you to death!

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>Who is
We already know from solicitations that Damian will be in some kind of hostage situation and that Bruce needs to save him.

Ignore this post. It was the Snyder's run of his time.
>Great art with mediocre writing
>Became famous because of the movie
>Isn't even worth reading after Wagner leaves
If anyone wants really good Batman from the 80s and 90s, Id recommend Milligan's run on Tec and his three parter Batman story, Blind Justice and Batman adventures+Spin-offs.

Because all tom king writes about is trauma and PTSD and it gets old after a while and no one wants to read about batman slitting his wrists

Because he writes Batman like a depressed teenaged girl. Yes Batman is a brooding faggot but King takes it to hilarious extents. On top of that all of his "Batcat" shit is beyond cringe, and this is coming from someone who likes the pairing.

I liked his direction at first, 'cause I thought it would evolve into something over time, but I've grown very tired of everything being a metapfor or some other literal trick. It's just all babble to me now and King feels to be just so full of himself. I'd like him to try and write a story that's for the most part exactly what it seems and cut the excessive and bloated prose. While he thinks his stuff is clever, as a reader I'm just confused mostly.

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>Highly acclaimed. Won 3 Eisners in a row during the run
Awards have become more an indication of garbage fake corporate approval than actual quality.

> Made Kite Man into a sympathetic character
Stupid f@gg0t hipster garbage "L0L KITEMAN how funnieee! Hee's like a reeeal person maaan!"
Another sadsack loser man I'm supposed to feel sorry for? Can you hit ANY other story beats, Tom King?

>Made cool new characters like Gotham Man and gotham girl
They're literally the most generic super clones possible, even down to the names.

>Realistic examination of PTSD and trauma
Realistic? Not sure if you could actually call it that, maybe.
I mean, the comics are written by a depressed sadsack loser who never saw any actual action overseas but larps as a warhero.
CIA sperg who helped ruin an entire continent.
He should feel bad about himself.
But he should be getting actual mental help for this
That doesn't mean the comics he writes during this time are good.
He's just a damaged loser.

Moench was the Snyder of his time, not Grant. Milligan's one story is hardly a run.

Blind Justice was by Sam Hamm, who wrote the Batman movie.

Problem with King's run is it follows the prototype set up by Morrison and followed by every writer since. A mystery is set up with a grand keikaku-master pulling the strings and Batman runs around like a chicken with his head cut off having no idea what the fuck is going on until it's too late. But at least in Morrison's run, Batman DID have some semblance of an idea what was happening.

Court of Owls and Death of the Family similarly portrayed Batman as a total retard, Batman Eternal was the worst example of this prior to King's run (he literally does nothing the entire series and has no bearing on the outcome.) But King's run takes the cake. I don't know how you can read more than one page of BatCat and still stomach this garbage.

Also since Batman intentionally tried to murder the Riddler I guess that makes Riddler a bigger deal than the Joker, Ra's al Ghul, and Bane put together. Fucking retarded bullshit.