We are deep into Zombie Simpsons, but Saddlesore Galactica still somehow sticks out...

I'm pretty sure they started to go in all direction tone wise to attract more people, like this episode is probably loved by people who watch more nonsensical shit like family guy.They know one bad episode won't make people drop, but any episode a casual would "really like" might actually make them come back. same with really preachy Lisa episode, or really light, nearly childish slapstick episodes.

Arguably Marvel and DC didn't start full-on shitting on their customers until long after that episode aired. Saddlesore Galactica aired February 6, 2000.

"Zombie Simpsons" is a meaningless term. And everyone is in a race to have discovered when it really started so it keeps happening earlier and earlier.

It began in season 1 episode 2.

the general consensus i see is during season 7.
8 is full into zombie territory.

I think the mistake some people make when discussing The Simpsons is to think the story telling matters. The show was never about the story telling. It was about the gags. And the problem with modern Simpsons isn't the poor story structure. They probably work more on story structure now than they used to. The actual problem is simply that the show isn't funny anymore. It's not offensively bad or totally nonsensical from a story telling perspective. It's just not funny.

Comic Book Guy’s role in the episode made it obvious.

I heavily disagree with 7 or 8 being the end; both seasons still have plenty of good episodes, including Homer’s Enemy.

Here's a free lesson for you, buddy.

Anybody who uses the term "zombie Simpsons" seriously is full of shit.

retard

This.
Simpsons was never some deep character piece. The episodes were a vehicle for telling jokes, and the jokes made the episodes. The narrative around the jokes is tangential at best, a comedy lives and dies on its humour.
Zombie Simpsons is just when the series stopped being funny, not when it got "unrelatable" or "away from its roots" or any of that shit. Deep Space Homer is an episode about a random fat moron being sent into fucking space, not even slightly realistic, and it's a great episode because it has some great jokes.
That's why Zombie Simpsons is subjective- because it's when the series stopped making you personally laugh.

>guys new simpsons are as good as the original

>They probably work more on story structure now than they used to.
no they don't. Old episode didn't change the subject in the middle of every episode, and didn't end with a cold "ok it's been 22 minutes the characters are just shilling now"

youre a liar and zombie simpsons started when tracey ullman decided "yeah i dont wanna write skits for this stupid rabbit cartoon on my show, but this nuclear family? hell yeah"

>including Homer’s Enemy.
i like it but is the show pretty much saying "hey guys we are a cartoon". Thats not a joke, but rather an apology.

I actually really liked the tone that was set in Homer’s Enemy, and for the same reasons as You Only Move Once. Like, I don’t think there’a anything necessarily wrong with putting the characters in cartoony situations, just so long as you remain true to the characters. So, with You Only Move Twice, you have the characters acting as they always have, but in a totally foreign situation. Then you have Homer’s Enemy, which flips that scenario where you have a regular person that had to work for everything in his life, coming up against Homer Simpson, who has a very nice life that he hasn’t earned by any stretch of the imagination.

I see why other people dislike those episodes, but they’re way too clever and too self aware to be put in the same camp as Saddlesore Galactica. And besides, the City of New York vs. Homer Simpson is in season nine, and only some jerk from the south tower would ever hate that episode.

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bless you.

yeah the simpsons really only got bad in the 2000s

>it's a social experiment, bro!

A creator attacking their own fans is always a defensive measure when they know they've lost it and can't make anything good anymore.

>ruining your entire show to spite about 15 people on the Internet

cutting off your nose to spite your face has been a thing since forever, user, its why it has such an idiom

Oakley and Weinstein seem to be the only showrunners who have some respect for the fanbase and enjoy interactng with them.

I know Ian Maxtone-Graham was always one of the biggest whiners about Internet Simpsons fans. This from a dude who had never even watched a full episode of the show before being hired.

I could swear I've seen this same pasta before.

>Saddlesore Galactica aired February 6, 2000

>Savage Garden--I Knew I Loved You was the #1 song on the Billboard that day

Hiring him was the dumbest thing O&W ever did (yes, PATP was not the dumbest thing they did).

They were absolutely shitting on their customers at that time

O&W were big on meta episode/deconstructing the show. I believe they thought it was a good idea since the show was assumed to be ending after their tenure.

It began with the christmas special.

youve already told us

REMINDER THAT MIKE SCULLY WAS A NEPOTISTIC FAGGOT. HE MADE HIS OWN WIFE AND BROTHER WRITERS AND HE SAID HE DUMBED THE SHOW DOWN SO IT WOULD BE MORE ACCESSIBLE TO HIS KIDS

cartoons are for kids dummy

Then you're suffering from a mental sickness because that shit was original, son.

I enjoyed this episode despite how dumb it is.
Made me laugh a few times

Go to bed John K.

grow up john doe

Hey, everyone loves elves bro

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That's the biggest lie I've ever read.

I've seen enough porn to know that lots of people wanna fuck the elf girl.

Wanting to fuck isn't the same as loving.

Elves are obnoxious and meant only to be sex slaves.

Was a spinoff with one of the other springfield characters ever considered?

The humor is definitely the main asset but you aren't gonna tell me the clever story structure and the characterizations didn't matter. Some of the most fondly recalled moments in the show can only be so because you care for the characters beyond their comedic abilities (Mother Simpson, And Maggie Makes Three, Bart Gets an F, Lisa's Wedding, Lisa's Substitute, One Fish, Two Fish, Blowfish, Blue Fish, etc.).

This is not to say the show didn't sometimes sacrifice sentiment for laughs (season 5 is pretty much a Scully season done Right) but it's disingenious to suggest the gags were all there ever was.

stop lying to yourself, you know it to be true

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A common mistake, he said he did shit like intentionally fuck up trivial facts to mess with Usenet posters that got hung up on stuff like geographically inaccurate locations. Episodes being shit on the other hand were just that, shit, no ulterior motive required.

Then why is the first season full of drama? The first episode, even? Homer blowing all his money on a dog race and ruining Christmas (only to get rescued by luck) isn't a gag. He and Bart looking for a winning race ticket in garbage isn't a gag, it's pathetic and sad.

10 was the transitional period, 11 onwards was mostly to 100% Zombie mode.
Bait.

Its already expected you know who the characters are from the Tracy Ullman Shorts. They are trying to be more grounded than the humor before.

Mostly because of James L. Brooks. He loves his dark drama shit (Homer's Triple Bypass was his idea). In a way, I'm glad Al Jean and Mike Reiss made the show a bit lighter in tone than Seasons 1-2.

No way were they banking on everyone having seen some sketch show.

Literally all this. I've made this exact point several times, even using "Deep Space Homer" as an example.
This is mostly cherry-picking, especially when you have to drawn so many from the first two seasons.
>but it's disingenious to suggest the gags were all there ever was.
Well, it lost the heart, but more importantly, it just stopped being funny, and the attempts at it were weak. That's all there is to it.
>Then why is the first season full of drama?
Seasons 3-9 are very different from the first two seasons. You're mischaracterizing Golden Age Simpsons by referring to how much drama there is.
>10 was the transitional period,
Well, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. But it's false. That would be season 9, which had great episodes, middling episodes, and mediocre episodes. Really, who is going to defend "The Principal and the Pauper," "Simpson Tide," "The Trouble with Trillions," and "Natural Born Kissers"? Then, however, Season 10 was where there was the biggest drop in overall quality, and it's just been steadily getting worse.

Season 9 had four different showrunners and the worst episodes were Mike Scully's, so...

Saddlesore Galactica might be the worst episodes of Season 11, but in absolutely no sense is it worse than it's been for well-over a decade.

me too

>This is mostly cherry-picking, especially when you have to drawn so many from the first two seasons.

There's as many S2 episodes as there are from other seasons in his post. You also have Like Father Like Clown, Saturdays Of Thunder, Lisa's Pony, Bart Sells His Soul, 'Round Springfield, Lisa on Ice, Lisa's First Word, Duffless, Stark Raving Dad, When Flanders Failed...

Well, true. Still, these are still mostly early episodes and the series changed from that, and, in my opinion, for the better. It might have had more heart, but the strength of the series was the comedy, not the drama.

Real talk, Scully seasons held up pretty damn well considering what followed them. There's only a handful of episodes that truly stink, most of his ouvre is a barrel of laughs provided you can accept it for what it is.

I'm reminded of folks who decry seasons 2 and 3 of Johnny Bravo as somehow lesser than S1 despite them being funny as shit.

Just.
Up yours dude

The City of New York vs Homer Simpson: 7/10
The Principal and the Pauper: 4/10
Lisa's Sax: 6/10
The Cartridge Family: 3/10
Bart Star: 8/10
The Two Mrs. Nahasapeemapetilons: 4/10
Lisa the Skeptic: 2/10
Reality Bites: 8/10
Miracle on Evergreen Terrace: 1/10
All Singing, All Dancing: 5/10
Bart Carny: 8/10
The Joy of Sect: 6/10
Das Bus: 5/10
The Last Temptation of Krust: 5/10
Dummbell Indemnity: 6/10
Lisa the Simpson: 5/10
This Little Wiggy: 4/10
Simpson Tide: 4/10
The Trouble with Trillions: 4/10
Girly Edition: 3/10
Trash of the Titans: 2/10
King of the Hill: 4/10
Lost Our Lisa: 4/10
Natural Born Kissers: 4/10

Lard of the Dance: 7/10
The Wizard of Evergreen Terrace: 5/10
Bart the Mother: 4/10
When You Dish Upon a Star: 3/10
D'oh in the Wind: 7/10
Lisa Gets an A: 7/10
Homer Simpson in Kidney Trouble: 6/10
Mayored to the Mob: 6/10
Viva Ned Flanders: 5/10
Wild Barts Can't Be Broken: 2/10
Sunday, Cruddy Sunday: 2/10
Homer to the Max: 4/10
I'm With Cupid: 6/10
Marge Simpson in Screaming Yellow Honkers: 5/10
Make Room For Lisa: 4/10
Maximum Homerdrive: 4/10
Simpsons Bible Stories: 6/10
Mom and Pop Art: 7/10
The Old Man and the C Student: 3/10
Monty Can't Buy Me Love: 3/10
They Saved Lisa's Brain: 3/10
Thirty Minutes over Tokyo: 3/10

Reality Bites and Bart Carny? Really?

>Beyond Blunderdome
4/10
>Brother's Little Helper
3/10
>Guess Who's Coming to Criticize Dinner
6/10
>E-I-E-I-D'oh
5/10
>Hello Gutter, Hello Fadder
2/10
>Eight Misbehavin'
3/10
>Take My Wife, Sleaze
7/10
>Grift of the Magi
3/10
>Little Big Mom
5/10
>Faith Off
2/10
>The Mansion Family
7/10
>Saddlesore Galactica
3/10
>Alone Again, Natura-Diddily
6/10
>Missionary: Impossible
5/10
>Pygmoelian
5/10
>Bart to the Future
2/10
>Days of Wine and D'oh'ses
5/10
>Kill the Alligator and Run
1/10
>Last Tap Dance in Springfield
5/10
>It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad Marge
3/10
>Behind the Laughter
3/10

>A Tale of Two Springfields
-1/10
>Insane Clown Poppy
6/10
>Lisa the Tree Hugger
3/10
>Homer vs. Dignity
0/10
>The Computer Wore Menace Shoes
1/10
>The Great Money Caper
-1/10
>Skinner's Sense of Snow
4/10
>HOMR
4/10
>Pokey Mom
4/10
>Worst Episode Ever
7/10
>Tennis the Menace
2/10
>Day of the Jackanapes
3/10
>New Kids on the Blecch
3/10
>Hungry, Hungry Homer
5/10
>Bye Bye Nerdie
5/10
>Simpson Safari
0/10
>Trilogy of Error
3/10
>I'm Goin' To Praiseland
6/10
>Children of a Lesser Clod
1/10
>Simpsons Tall Tales
4/10

>Bart Carny
It's funny, it has good jokes, none of the characters are exceptionally annoying or unlikable, Jim Varney was great, and we get to see Ullman short Lisa back for an episode. Also the ending with Homer repairing his ass groove is killer.

Some Scully episodes had good jokes even if they were stupid as fuck, but when they didn't have good jokes (eg. Simpson Safari), they became excruciating to sit through.

This is a tough one because judgement is purely emotional. And episodes are sensed differently by everyone.

Well, of course. I think there's no season of the Zombie Simpsons season that's so bad, it's not topped in awfulness by the one that follows it.

Didn't they do The Principal and the Pauper which was explicitly designed to piss off the internet autists who bitched about continuity or really anything changing in general on the show? But that's still a good episode IMO and the fact it pisses off Groening and Shearer makes it even better.

Not to the extent that you think of. Late 90's Marvel went retro in order to get older readers back. In some cases this worked (Busiek/Perez Avengers) in other cases it didn't (Byrne Spider-Man). And in the cases of stuff not working they gradually tried to walk back some things sooner (Chapter One was quietly ignored a year after its release). There were blunders but not linewide blunders the way Marvel was handled in the mid-2010's.

The only thing at DC during the late 90's that would be shitting on customers would be them still prolonging the whole Hal Jordan/Kyle Rayner controversy. Again, not linewide.

I understand Saddlesore Galactica is the worst episode ever, but it honestly has one of my favorite jokes in post-golden age Simpsons.

youtu.be/s9AQh1u9oR4?t=80

>I understand Saddlesore Galactica is the worst episode ever
I don't think you understand just how much worse the show has gotten since then.

>hehe I'm remembered as the downfall of the show, I gotcha!
He sure showed us

The fucking monorail episode was season 3 and that was cartoony as hell.

If an episode of Saddlesore's quality aired today it could easily be the best of the season, that's how bad things have gotten since

Dude season 11 is a fucking garbage fire.

True, but Scully's episodes I legit consider compelling comedy, provided you can divorce your notions of what the show should be as shaped by earlier seasons. Taken on its own as a purely laugh-driven affair it can be funny as hell.

Back in the day I'd have agreed with you, but I can't help finding several of its episodes hilarious nowadays. Homer as a food critic, the tomacco episode, the fourth wall breaker...

> the tomacco episode
I'm going to agree to disagree, I fucking hated that episode. It had one of my least favorite quirks about that era, completely disconnected story act structure.

OP, I don't know what to tell you. If you're making a list of the worst episodes of the Simpsons that you can think of has Saddlesore Galactica at the top of it, then you have been VERY selective indeed about what you judged and what you didn't.

At least at this point they were still trying to make jokes related to the story and putting half a damn into animating reactions.

First time I watched Simpsons Safari I fucking hated it. Years later I caught it and I actually found it amusing. Then I came across it a third time and hated it again.

Has this happened to anyone here? Not necessarily with that episode.

someone forgot to take their sperg meds today.

You mean to tell me there were never cartoony vibes before Enemy? Seriously?
Season 5 alone is cartoony as all fucks.

Remember when Homer thew a bible at a gigantic spider?

Or when a second Homer passed by the window right after Lisa said cartoons don't have to be realistic?
As early as season two you have Bart and Homer missing the moment their TV displays a balloon of Bart himself at the Macy's parade

Season 11 seems like a safe bet. I kind of feel like the zombie plague started taking on stranger mutations after the show went digital, though.

Get out of here Moviebob. Nobody likes you.

You're both partially right, but the fundamental truth is that if the episodes had all become Deep Space Homer tier situations but had remained funny then we wouldn't be having this conversation. We'd maybe be talking about how the series became silly or borderline farcical, but if it was still making us laugh then the general consensus would be that the Simpsons is still good (or at least good enough) the term "Zombie Simpsons" would not be used at all.

>storytelling=deep character piece
holy sophism bartman