>Invader Zim has had an interesting run at Nickelodeon over the years. So how did this special come together? When did you first conceive of the idea for it?
Jhonen Vasquez: The special came together from years and years of Nickelodeon sort of bringing it up. One time I went in to pitch a completely different show and the first half hour of the meeting was just them saying, “So, Zim, huh?” I’m like, “Yeah.” I think it was kind of hard for them to ignore the fan response over the years.
And a lot of the people at Nickelodeon over the years were a lot more supportive, because they were the people who are working under the people who were in charge of the programming back in the day. And so these people ended up becoming the higher ups and they just had a soft spot for Zim. Which is funny because anytime I talk to people or hear from people who hear that I’m doing more Zim stuff, They’re just like, “What? How are you working with Nickelodeon again? Didn’t they screw you over before?”
It’s interesting hearing about how people perceive these networks all as giant monster corporations; they’re not people. I mean, I guess legally they’re people. They just happen to be whoever is working there at the time. And back in the day there were people and now they’re just a completely different set of people. But when this movie got going, it was just a far more supportive environment than we’ve ever had. The timing just happened to work out.
2015, 2016? I think the comics had been coming out. They’re doing well and I just was a lot more receptive to the idea of doing more Zim as opposed to the last several thousand years. It didn’t make sense. It wasn’t something that was really pushing me. I didn’t really want to do more. It’s not that I wanted to avoid it. It’s just I had other stuff on my mind.
>...when you first push play to start this special, you get this amazing anime-inspired, action-packed, robust, crazy narration sequence to like drop you into this thing. Not what you’re expecting. Can you talk about the idea of coming up with that opening?
Vasquez: Oh, man. I hope people don’t listen to this before they see the movie because that’s one of those things that pretty early on, once we got in to production. Even before production, there were a couple of things that were just the favorite joke. They sustained me. And gave me a little boost of life along the production. It’s pretty grueling making anything regardless of the subject matter. Funny or drama, it’s still work.
I had a couple of ideas and jokes that I could not wait till when this thing was actually done. I couldn’t… I loved thinking about when people got to experience these moments. And that’s one of them. Just starting with something that people absolutely don’t expect. Making the show with so much higher quality. And not just higher quality, like a completely different show where people who were fans of the show, people who aren’t fans of the show would watch it and just think, holy shit.
>Right.
Vasquez: This is like a whole other thing. “Oh my god. I’m on board for this. This is a freak show,” or, “Finally, this doesn’t look like the stupid crap it used to look like!” And that’s just like a couple of seconds and then we’re back in to a stupid-looking cartoon. And I really, really wanted feel people’s disappointment. You know? Like I’d love to be in an audience and hear people like laughing or cheering and then just feel that drop. When it’s back and they’re like, oh, this is actually the movie.I don’t know. I just love thinking about that.
>What was the process of trying to figure out which animation styles you wanted for those really quick scenes with the alternate realities? It reminded me a bit of Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse, the jumps between different animation styles, different genres.
Vasquez: Oh my god. You’re really picking at some really sensitive wounds there. I went and saw Spider-verse. And you know, I’m just like, oh my god. It is really similar. It’s a really similar treatment and reason for why that’s happening in the movie. And I was watching it just feeling so terrible and ugly. Like oh my God, look what look what an actual budget gets you. I was crying. Because we were at the end of our production when Spider-verse came out. We were at the last couple of months. And it was when all the shit was hitting the fan. And there’s so many disasters on a production. And we didn’t have the kind of budget, I’m sure, that Spider-verse had. So, when I was in that theater watching that scene, I was like, my god. This is incredible and I suck. Spider-verse, awesome. We’re okay.
>I don’t know if people were expecting to hear the voice of of Tak or Tak’s ship in the special. So, can you talk about like the fan reaction to that?
Vasquez: I think people want for Tak to come back. When she comes back, like she did in the series, she came back maybe one or two times, as her ship because her personality is downloaded into her ship. And so, she’s present in ship form again because it’s just this technology that Zim has. I don’t know what the fan reaction is going to be. I think there’s going to be a lot of people angry that she is in the movie but not, not as Tak proper.
>And then having Justin Roiland come in to do a wacky voice or two doesn’t hurt either, I would imagine.
Vasquez: No. Well, he was busy working on some cartoon of his, I guess. But it was, again, he was one of the few additions. But we didn’t really do any kind of stunt casting or electrical. Oh, you know what? We did want Jeff Goldblum to come in and do a voice. But he couldn’t. He wouldn’t. I guess we’re just not cool enough.
But, we did it. But what ended up happening is we had Eric Bauza who ended up doing a Morgan Freeman voice. So, you know, not a Jeff Goldblum, but it’s kind of a Morgan Freeman. And that’s really all a person needs.
>Maybe we’ll get to hear that someday on a future special, or a deleted scene, or a blooper reel or something like that.
>I noticed things like Bloaty’s Pizza Hog and his Peace Day pizza that had me pausing because I was laughing so hard at that. Any other kind of like Easter eggs?
Vasquez: I would say that there’s actually very few Easter eggs. Again, as a fan or a viewer of things, I can’t stand going to a movie or, any movie where they do this, where it’s some thing that you grew up watching and so you watch the new iteration or sequel and they’re trolling all these little things for you to recognize. I just find that shit distracting.
Bloaty’s presence is just a remainder of a previous version of the script and I needed to get Bloaty in there. It wasn’t so like, “Hey guys, remember Bloaty?” It was because I love Bloaty and I wanted to see him cough a pizza against the wall.
You’ve seen Rogue One? I loved Rogue One. But I cannot stand that shit where they’re walking through a crowd and it’s like, “Hey, look at those guys from the Cantina in New Hope!” It just stops the movie. It doesn’t make it better for me. Why are those guys there? Like, it’s just dumb and distracting and I don’t need it.
Vasquez: A little bit of everything. I think you’re right about everything except for GIR. GIR doesn’t know where he is, what’s around him… I think he’s a broken servant. But there’s enough being aware of his function. He wants to be around Zim. He wants to do his job, but I think that’s kind of where it ends. I try not to give GIR to much motivation other than the motivation of just an amoral baby monster
As for the rest of it, yeah. Kind of because of it being a longer format. I knew right off the bat that it had to be about more than just your typical Zim episode. While still being natural to the world. The last thing I wanted was for people to think, “Oh god, it’s too much sentiment. It feels forced. It feels timid.” They’re two emotions in the show. There’s just Anger and Yell. That’s an emotion, isn’t it? But, it had to focus on something a little bit more just to show that it wasn’t just non-stop screaming and anger
You know that stuff was in the show. Zim always was seeking acknowledgment from his leaders. And Dib was always incredibly frustrated by his dad’s disrespect of Dib’s job, and function, and mission in the world. And they’ve always kind of had that parallel, Dib with his dad and Zim with his”dads.” It’s not like, “Hey, show me that you love me.” It’s like, “Hey, acknowledge that I’m amazing.”
Because these characters are jerks. You have to like still retain that core of being jerks. Dib didn’t just want to save the world. He wants you to know that he saved the world. But Dib needs to be recognized. That’s why everything in the story happens. He’s as much a villain as Zim is. Because everyone always want for Zim and Dib to try and … well , I wouldn’t say everyone. I would just say broken people. But they do help each other. Just not on purpose
My hope is that people still like the characters and the world and isn’t just a completely different take on Zim
Another minor theme is mindless consumerism. So any comments on that?
Vasquez: It was a much more major thing in the original idea. But it’s definitely still in there. I don’t sit down and go, “Oh, I’m really going to stick it to this or that” when I write anything. But I’m aware of it and I, again, I never want it to feel overt, even though I get the message; we can’t ignore it. In Zim, the world has always been about people being completely distracted, oblivious, focusing on really minor, stupid little details while the world around them is literally decaying. Because the world of Zim is always this kind of monstrous infrastructure but squalid for some weird reason, and that’s definitely in the movie. I feel like the world is slightly less squalid, which, I don’t know, I think if I were to take another stab at it, I’d make it a little dirtier.
But, initially, in the original idea, no one knows that anything bad has happened. None of the humans, from beginning to end, pay any attention to anything that is happening. Literally, the world is dragging it out. And they’re just really happy with their phones, with their wrist watches in the movie. But, I didn’t want to go that way. It kind of like distracted from the core story of Dib with his dad, and Zim with the Tallest, and Zim and Dib just doing their thing. But yeah, kind of hard to miss some of that stuff. I’m saying that I’m trying to avoid being overt, but, it was pretty overt.
>There’s a similar theme in the recent Rocko’s Modern Life special that also aired on Netflix. On this podcast, we did have a chance to chat with Joe Murray and review the special as well. So I was just curious, did you guys or your teams happen to cross paths at all in the production?
Vasquez: No, I just watched that. It just went up on Netflix. I guess, the difference between the Rocko’s thing and the Zim thing is Rocko addresses the passage of time. I mean, Rocko’s is definitely the thing for people to watch if they want to see some kind of conclusion. Zim is not that. Rocko’s outright said,” This thing is from the past and look how much the world has changed.” Zim doesn’t try to address how the world has changed. I feel like it makes as much sense as it did back then if not more so. It doesn’t present a problem and then tell you how to solve it. It just goes, “Look at this awful world. Isn’t it awful?” And that’s kind of it.
When I talk about the show, I always talk about it being from the future, where everyone knows what humanity did wrong, and so this show is just this kind of a relic that everyone’s fascinated by. “Look how awful people used to be. Look how dirty the world used to be. Look how negligent everyone used to be to the world that’s falling apart around them.” I think a lot people see that as just sheer cynicism, but it was never that for me. There’s an element of cynicism to it, for sure. But, I always liked stuff like that growing up, knowing full well that it wasn’t stuff to emulate. I wasn’t just being nasty and ignorant to how people can be, how the world can be. I think a lot of new stuff is incredibly funny, so long as you’re not laughing at it because it’s like the stuff that you do. “I’m a piece of shit. So, I love watching people be pieces of shit.” I like watching pieces of shit be pieces of shit because I try not to be. And it’s funny to laugh at people who are worse than you.
>I have to ask: Any future stories for Invader Zim? And would you like to do more specials in the future?
Vasquez: I’ve been getting that all the time. I don’t know. Working on this movie, coming up with one story and then spending years on it, versus a few weeks and then you’re onto the next thing where you can change direction, take it somewhere else, I got incredible frustrated. I got very impatient. And so, of course, I was thinking it would be great to do this or that with Zim. Or how fun would it be to be able to tell this story? So, it’s in me to just make this stuff. And the logistics though, I don’t know.
I would love to work on other things. I’d love to be able to work with a greater range of emotions than what Zim lets me do. But, I would still definitely like to see these characters living and doing other stuff. But really, it all depends on what kind of arrangement would I be allowed. Maybe I’m just writing it and I’m writing it from my space station far away and I don’t have to be going in to a studio like I used to.
I’d love to be able to work on other stuff while keeping Zim alive. I don’t know. It’s a thing that comes up now and then. It used to come up a lot more during production. There was a lot of talk about bringing the show back but then those conversations just went away when there were changeovers at Nickelodeon. Everyone thinks that when the movie comes out, if it does well… I have no idea. I don’t know. I don’t know that I’ll know if it does well or not. Netflix doesn’t really… It’s got that whole mysterious “keeping the numbers secret” kind of thing. It will be interesting to see how people respond to it.
>What’s up next for you in the meantime? What else are you up to?
Vasquez: Well, I’m sort of in this weird limbo. I’m trying to take it easy. And taking it easy for me means working on something that isn’t mine but that I can have a hand in. So at the moment, I might be working on something that’s bigger than anything I’ve ever done. Just as a writer. To me, that’s a vacation. Something that isn’t entirely mine, that I can hopefully improve but isn’t me calling every single shot. I’m able to just focus on one little aspect rather then hopefully making that better … or worse. We’ll see.
>That’s a great tease. Thanks again and best of luck with Invader Zim: Enter the Florpus. I hope everybody loves it as much as I did.
This is interesting to me. I think a lot of folks read into IZ as a sort of "the entire workd is a hopeless piece of shit" and that appealed to folks going through a hard time. To hear Jhnoen say outloud that he never saw the world as hopeless as Zim is interesting to me.
Ryan Sanchez
Why is there a thing covering Felicity Jones’ beautiful face?
Jaxon Bennett
Kamen Rider Mad Rogue
Kayden Robinson
This is the most chill Jhonen has ever come off in an interview. He used to be so abrasive and generally shitty.
Elijah Thomas
Vasquez has found happiness and moved out of his edgy phase
Nathaniel Sanchez
>So at the moment, I might be working on something that’s bigger than anything I’ve ever done. Just as a writer. To me, that’s a vacation. Something that isn’t entirely mine, that I can hopefully improve but isn’t me calling every single shot. I’m able to just focus on one little aspect rather then hopefully making that better … or worse. We’ll see. That´s great. Can´t wait to see what show he´s part of.
Evan Robinson
you fucking madman I love you
Tyler Sanchez
What a great fucking interview. Thanks so much for the transcript. I would love to see more Zim but if this is the last animated thing to be made, I´m satisfied.
Nice setup but the animation bothered me, I hate that kind where it's one thing but they shrink it. I don't think they ever redrew the model for them turning or anything.
Alexander Adams
neat
Eli Stewart
Wasn't much into Zim but this was a cool interview. Thanks.
Oliver Reed
Hah. Actual shipping.
Austin Ramirez
He went back to Nick to pitch another fucking show?
Connor Ramirez
A Very Important House?
Matthew Lee
Fuck I noticed this to. The lineart was all the wrong sized pen throughout mostly the latter half of the film. It was so weird.
Henry White
That's been a thing with him as far back as JTHM. He's just got a really weird sense of humor
Camden Gutierrez
It personally didn't bother me too much desu. What always bothers me though is 3D models in 2D animation, was glad to see those robots get killed off, very distracting. It seems like the integration of 3D into 2D animation back when Zim was originally airing has really not gotten any better since the original, but don't quote me on that.
