Shops at hot topic once

I don't see how Sandman is dated to the goth/alternative era anymore than Watchmen or Dark Knight is dated to the Thatcher and Reagan era.

This guy Sandman's. Matthew is pure bird.

Because

>Thatcher and Reagan era.
This is an era of history

>goth/alternative era
This is a music / fashion subculture

You said dated to a culture. All 3 are dated to a culture. Where as a comic like Batman Year One for instance can be read any time and always feels brand new.

I'd agree with you on the other 2, but some of it has a timeless sort of feel to it (or at the very least, I was able to read it a few years ago without feeling too much of a disconnect)

The one with the absolute Chad who just decided to not die, and Death's pussy got wet and she let him.

Also, the one with the Emperor of San Francisco. That's just a fun twist on history.

Sandman isn't really tied to any one time period beyond the aesthetics of a few characters. Not like Watchmen and TDKR are tied very clearly to the 80s.

yeah, the Emperor story is one of my favorites

>The one with the absolute Chad who just decided to not die, and Death's pussy got wet and she let him.
That's not even the best part, him becoming friends with Dream over the centuries is so wholesome.

>that part where Delirium takes one look at the Emperor and says "He's not one of mine"
So he wasn't crazy, just really, really fucking dedicated to the act

Are we all just gonna forget that Delirium just straight up made a cop go insane because she was driving like a lunatic and he tried to give her a ticket

the Endless are not nice

Based and birdpilled

to be fair you only need to go there once. everything that isnt flavor of the month theme is gonna be there in 10 years

Best short story is a tale of two cities to me

I really fucking love everything about it

I fucking Ramadan (#50) for the art

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Death is nice. Dream has a conscience. Destruction is a jolly bloke. Destiny is amoral.

Desire, Despair and Delirium are the shithead sociopath trio.

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Dunno lads I just don't get Sandman the way I do other classics. It's just so fucking wordy and and most of the over arching plot stuff isn't interesting to me like the one-offs are. I don't get the serial killer convention stuff at all, it's so corny.

No one likes everything

That isn't a good thing user, if Lucifer is any indication. Best scenario, maybe someone reads comics out of curiosity.

Ye, she's great

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of course it's a good thing. if you don't like it, don't watch it. i'll never get into the heads of people with your stupid attitude.

>Lucifer
I was fucking floored when I found out the Lucifer from Sandman was the same one from that retarded show.

Desire is the only true asshole. Delirium is just insane, and while Despair's goals are assholish, they're not petty about it like Desire is.

after American Gods, Gaiman started taking a more direct supervising role in adaptations of his works.

I mean, yeah it's something to worry, but what gives me hope is that, well, you saw Good Omens? Gaiman was very involved with all the stuff Amazon did, so it wouldn't be strange to assume that he would also be heavily involved when Netflix touches his magnum opus

he's not going to be involved in Sandman as much as he was with Good Omens, but he has said he'll be more involved with it than he was with American Gods.

holy molly, I'm reading Lucifer now (I know I'm late, I read sandman before like 10 years ago), and I completely forget about this interaction

I didn't read Good Omens but I thought it was a pretty good miniseries. David Tennant is always great fun to watch, especially when he gets to be evil. I think a Sandman series would rise and fall with the cast, if Gaiman doesn't cast the Endless properly it'll go down the toilet.

you should read Good Omens, user

I had to watch the whole thing with my girlfriend; I'll admit I never read the comics other than Lucifer's parts in Sandman. However, I see posts like and I just can't imagine Morpheus in the same TV formula.

Lucifer had zero involvement from Gaiman or Mike Carey. Sandman will at least have some involvement from Gaiman, since he was less than pleased with how American Gods turned out after the first season when he was less involved.

How is it? All I know about Lucifer is that he's supposed to be real fucking powerful (and intelligent, charismatic, etc) and I'm not sure how you'd even write compelling stories about a character like that

>The Sandman #1 cover date January 1989 (so in reality a couple months back in 1988)
>Hot Topic: First store opened in November 1989

Yeah, Dream is powerful and charismatic and what not but he's a huge asshole and a bit of a moron sometimes. Lucifer fucking tricked him so would be free of Hell. What kind of adventures to you send a fallen angel on who tricked one of the Endless?

it's one of the best comics Vertigo ever published

>Vertigo ever published
Technically true, but it was running under regular DC for the first four years

Lucifer, not Sandman. Lucifer was always Vertigo.

I'm a dumbass who misread the comment chain

When Hot Topic first opened it was a pretty good place to get band t-shirts.

I'm loving it user. very good stuff. I should have read it before If you liked Sandman, you can't go wrong with Lucifer

It's a mug's game

I didn't know Death's design was based on a real person until I looked it up just now, and also found out that person passed away from cancer just last year. If that's not irony, I don't know what is..

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That's not ironic, that's coincidence. Irony would be if someone beat her to death with a copy of the Death Hardcover.

Apparently I don't know what irony is. Carry on, then.

Sweet a Sandman thread. I just finished this art piece last night.
Yes, Matthew is great and all, and is the best, I don't think we should forget about Merv.

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It's the most abused word in the English language. 99% of the time when people use the word they mean to use coincidence.

Delirium looks like a boy

Huh. I thought Death was based on Siouxsie Sioux

>Merv
I don't know what it is about Merv, but I love him. I love how he just pops up for a bit of banter every now and then, and then disappears. He's not overused, just a dash of comedy here and there. Good stuff.

This is from a Sandman fan film, apparently. This isn't half bad, considering it probably had a tiny budget. With some refining and polish, digital color adjustments, something this look could work.

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never read the abomination that is The Dreaming
Either of them

looks good

Well now I'm just gonna go read them. Lemme guess; Grimdark Adventures with Marv and Merv? Merv rapes the elf girl Dream had for a while?

>It's a shame Sandman is so clearly dated within a specific culture. Sandman, Watchmen, the Dark Knight were always the big three and Sandman is already disappearing from that has the 90's fades away.
There hasn't been a culture since the 90s though, so it's not like it's been replaced by anything. I honestly have not been able to discern any sort of zeitgeist / style / anything out of either the 00s or the 10s. I think 90s was the last decade where you still had a feel to it you could characterize. Not sure why. Might be because of technology / telecommunications escalating to such extreme degrees that everyone got sucked into their own solitary mental tar pits and the only ones left trying to do anything with culture are completely inept marketing shills trying to make some ten second video clip "go viral."

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Seeing this I'm wondering what his voice would sound like. I unironically think Adam Driver or Ralph Ineson's voice could be cool coming out of that character, something slow and deep.

hip hop entering the mainstream was a huge paradigm shift in culture, though

>With some refining and polish, digital color adjustments, something this look could work.
Fan films tend to go for the more true to material direct approach at reproducing comic book character appearances.
For whatever reason most professionally done TV shows and movies based on comics are made by people who feel the need to do their own spin on it e.g. Apocalypse in that X-Men movie.

You either don't know what the word "culture" means or you haven't left the house in 30 years.

>"The greatest epic in the history of comic books"—The Los Angeles Times Magazine

Were they right?

There was hip hop in the mainstream long before the year 2000. Run-DMC collaborating with Aerosmith was in 1986 and that was as mainstream as it gets. And much earlier examples than that exist, but that's the obvious one I thought of first.

>you haven't left the house in 30 years.
It's an apartment, but sort of. I still leave to go to work and back home most weekdays when I'm not remoting in through the VPN. Thanks to Amazon though I don't even need to leave to get basic living needs taken care of anymore. Straight to the door delivery same day to next day on pretty much anything you can think of is pretty great.
Maybe that's what 2010s culture is: Amazon.

Even if you don't leave the house you can glean culture from the internet. Just because you don't like the world and are misanthropic doesn't mean it isn't culture. Culture is everything.

that was still just a cover of a white band's song performed alongside said white band. Hip hop didn't truly enter the mainstream until the 90s. Then Eminem showed up in 1999 and made it ok for white suburban moms to like hip hop.

nah, that has to be Cerebus

We all know what the greatest epic in the history of comic books was.

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>liefeld face lines visible through a sock mask
of course. he even has them through iron man's fucking metal faceplate.

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>Culture is everything.
Nah, you can be a little more selective than that.
Culture is everything by necessity if you're an anthropologist studying a civilization that was around a couple thousand years ago because you're too short on material and context not to.
But for more recent eras you can definitely do some prioritization for how relevant a given happenstance, product, or apparent behavior was to said era.
Less formally there just isn't what you'd call "character" to the 00s or 10s. It's got nothing to it that you could do a theme party for and have people not in on the fact you were doing a theme party instantly go "hey, you're dressed up as the 00s!" 90s you could do that no problem. 80s, 70s, 60s, and 50s too.

>I honestly have not been able to discern any sort of zeitgeist / style / anything out of either the 00s or the 10s
Maybe it's a matter of being in the inside trying to look out? I think people who were there for the 70s/80s/90s didn't feel like there was a certain aesthetic of the era until decades later, looking back

No, I absolutely had a clear idea of what the 90s were like when I was living during the 90s.
And while the 10s still have a little time left in them, the 00s should have coalesced into something of substance by now, but they haven't.

You're basically a le wrong generationer and I hope you realize that.

Try making an argument any time. Also not sure if you're suggesting I'm some self-hating zoomer, but I'm not. Into my late 30s now.

There's nothing to argue with. You've already admitted you never leave the house, and your example of a costume party is fucking stupid. I could absolutely put together a 2000s outfit for a party or a 2010s outfit for a party, but that would be pretty stupid to do in 2019. This is why you're a wrong generationer, you have no sense of history and have redefined culture to be anything you approve of. You don't understand that every generation how similar feelings about their era and only once time has passed and people have hindsight can the zeitgeist be simplified into something akin to a slogan.
There's no argument to be had because you're full of nonsense and reek of misanthropy.

Crap, its Desire that's supposed to look like a boy

>I could absolutely put together a 2000s outfit for a party
Nobody would know that's what you did unless you told them though. That's the point.
Instead of getting upset and trying to come up with sick internet burns you could try thinking and realizing you have no legitimate objection to this.

I liked how accurate it was and felt like it was really made by the fans. And I'm impressed with how Dream looks. My one complaint was when Dream was fighting zombies and Death showed up to kill one. Death is more neutral to me and it made little sense for Dream to fight dream-zombies of the dead diner folk

>Nobody would know that's what you did unless you told them though. That's the point.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You have no fucking idea what's what. There's no discussion to be had because of how divorced you are from reality. Leave the house more often.

considering the 90s "aesthetic" is flannel and jeans, no one would fucking know it was a 90s outfit unless you told them

Also, again, you're wrong about not knowing while still in the decade or shortly after the decade what the zeitgeist is. There was a very clear 90s zeitgeist while still in the 90s. Nobody thought the 90s was some anonymous unknowable span of time that didn't have anything recognizable to it.

It's astonishing that you don't think the same for the 00s which was so dominated by fallout of 9/11. Again you don't leave the house enough and the reeducation process required before having an earnest discussion about this would be a precious waste of time. I'm done arguing with you, have a nice life, see you at the Halloween party.

9/11 is politics. I'm talking about aesthetics.

>Death is more neutral to me and it made little sense for Dream to fight dream-zombies of the dead diner folk
Yeah I agree. The animation was really good for such a low-budget film. A shame Dream never talked, or did anything in live action.

oh yeah, the animation still felt really high tier to me. I hope the tv show has a lot of animation segments for fun

I never once said anything about politics.
You can certainly choose to make it about politics, but that's not something I'm personally interested in much with this. What I'm interested in is that there's no discernible essence of the time after the 90s. The 90s was the last personality having decade.
If you want a simplified example of what we've been talking about, you have shit like that RHCP video they did a few years back where they went through different eras in appearance / style:
youtube.com/watch?v=Sb5aq5HcS1A
They end with themselves in what was then the present, but there isn't really anything characteristic about how they were in that last then present form.

you're talking about emo, then

>Dani California
>a few years back
nigga that was TEN YEARS AGO

Leave the house.

>The 90s was the last personality having decade.
how can you seriously say that when the 90s "aesthetic" is just normal clothes

'member when delirium was all fishes haha

>emo
Well at least now you're actually engaging the real topic instead of just insulting me or trying to convince me there is no topic in the first place.
Yes, emo would be maybe the closest thing to some part of 00s culture. Also dub step stuff for 10s even though dub step was technically a thing long before then (when you start to look at this topic seriously you eventually get to a point where you can pick apart any attribute and say it didn't *really* start a year X, so you have to kind of be more fuzzy in the approach and recognize when these sorts of things took off in a big way vs. just technically existing as part of some really insular niche subculture a couple decades earlier in a mostly different form).

I honestly just think we're a little too close to call that yet. Give it a few years and I'm sure someone will be able to distill an 00's "flavor" for lack of a better word.

>real topic
Yes, the real topic AKA your limited, insular, and ever changing definition of culture is indeed the real topic. Because the man who admittedly doesn't leave the house except when he has and hasn't enjoyed life since he was young enough to is an arbiter of culture and has his ear to the ground.

Could be, but I doubt it. I mean, the distance here is the same as if you were in the year 1999 talking about the 80s. And I'm pretty sure I knew and everyone else I was acquainted with knew both what the 80s were like and what the 90s were like when it was the year 1999. I definitely didn't learn anything new that altered my perception of the 80s years later in the year 2003 or something like that.

user, answer honestly
when did you stop leaving the house when you didn't have to

Do you really get that much pleasure from turning this into a shit flinging insult-fest instead of opening your mind and making an honest attempt to relate to what I'm talking about? You can still disagree with it, but you're just being a dick about it nonstop here.

Yeah, I get it, I don't get out enough. Bringing it up for the eighth time isn't going to make the point any clearer. Instead of repeating that you could try characterizing the 00s.

I can never get a grasp of 00s culture unless someone shoves it in my face. That shit still seems like yesterday to me instead of a distinctive set of aesthetics/characteristics unique to that time period

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Buddy when someone is so absolutely wrong, delusional, and unreasonable, there is nothing else to do but make fun. You have this weird fixation on fashion and music as the only source of culture while pretending that the 00s and 10s don't have their own fashion and music trends. And then after identifying a 00s music trend (emo) and a 10s music trend (dubstep) you still go on about this vague shit. You can't be reasoned with and therefore should be made fun of for being a dum dum.

you didn't answer the question

>Buddy when someone is so absolutely wrong
No, cut the bullshit. You can try to have a reasonable discussion. You just have issues and want to keep on being cool internet insult guy.

There's no argument I can make that I haven't already made if you scroll up. There is nothing else left for me to say. You're living in your own world.

Yes, because of the reason I gave in my response. It's a tired point that's been brought up repeatedly already and it isn't going to take the discussion anywhere productive.
Why not try to characterize the 00s? If the problem is I personally don't have a good idea of it, then enlighten me by characterizing the 00s yourself.

>You're living in your own world.
At least one other user in this thread related to what I was talking about to some extent here:
And I'm sure there are more people who have wondered the same thing outside of this thread and the website it's on.

Yes, Yea Forums is an echochamber of people that tend to live in their own world and don't leave the house. I bet you'll find 10 000 people that agree with you, and they'd all be wrong too.

because you'll just brush it off saying it doesn't fit your narrow definition of "culture." I just want to know if your inability to recognize the culture of the 00s and 10s is because you stopped interacting with people in a non-professional setting in the 00s, or because of some inherent autism.

>because you'll just brush it off saying it doesn't fit your narrow definition of "culture."
That's not true. I've been trying to make as much of an effort as possible to get something you to contribute something on the topic. And I agreed the one time you (or some other user, not sure) actually made a bit of an effort to do so here:
You're the only one who keeps trying to drag this back into making cool zingers about how lame and awful I am. I'd personally prefer it if you actually engaged what I was talking about, like I've already pointed out now a couple times.

But you are lame and awful. You're a class graduated from people in YouTube comments who say "Fuck Justin Bieber, long live Led Zeppelin."

>You're a class graduated from people in YouTube comments who say "Fuck Justin Bieber, long live Led Zeppelin."
No.

And to add to this, I have no problem with Justin Bieber except that I don't get any read on 00s or 10s culture out of him or his music.
In contrast, I'm also fine with commonly hated acts like Backstreet Boys or 'N Sync, and I *do* get some read out of them as being 90s-esque.

Justin Bieber was discovered through YouTube. His very career IS 00s culture you fucking idiot.
Same as Arctic Monkeys being discovered through MySpace. For a guy who keeps fixating on music you don't seem to know a lot about it.

I mean, he thinks hip hop was mainstream in the 80s because of Run DMC's Walk This Way cover. That should've been your first clue that he's not the most knowledgeable guy.

Like I said, enlighten me if you have information on the topic I'm missing. That's a lot better than just calling me an idiot over and over again. Were you molested by your uncle as a child or something? I don't get where all the hate is even coming from. Not like I've been attacking you any.

I actually said it was much earlier than that and that was the first lazy example that came to mind.

The hate is coming from you being a guy who knows nothing but acts like some sort of cultural arbiter. Just stop arguing.

I'm not acting like an arbiter when I'm telling you repeatedly I could definitely just be missing something you or someone else has a better idea of. Stop with all the crazy person projection.

then you're even dumber than I thought

Oh you're missing something alright.

Why are they all white?

What was it like back then?

I wonder if Imagine Dragons will be known as a 10s band. Their music appears to be popular or at least used a crap ton in ads and played on the radio.

they just sound so generic

Adele will probably be the "defining" artist of the 10s

Depends on who's looking

Adele or TSwift

Yes, a musical act that released all their material in the 10s will be known as a 10s act.
Adele is generic too, as pop music usually is. But you're right that Adele will probably be the most remembered act. Or maybe a pop star like Lady Gaga who has a lot of iconic imagery, like the meat dress. Adele's thing is she sold records at an impossible clip. 21 is the best selling album since THRILLER in an era where people do NOT buy records anymore. It's astonishing really.

>implying Merkel and Trump aren't equally as shit as they were
At least Reagan followed through on things

I didn't mean defining. Just wanted to put in some input over the culture argument. Imagine Dragons was just at the forefront of my mind because my mother played their songs on repeat for months just a year ago

What are you trying to say? Imagine Dragons is emblematic of a 10s pop music trend? Sure they are. Give me any song and I can guess when it came out within 5 years, even if I wasn't alive at the time. All music is dated to when it came out.

I don't know dude I'm not trying to offend. I don't listen to much of the music myself, I just find myself finding ads with the music and from my own family listening to it. Adele, Taylor Swift, or whatever will likely be much longer remembered. If you want to guess a date of a song from Imagine Dragons then guess Believer. I don't know the year myself.

Ugh alright. I guess 2014. I promise I'm not cheating. I will not google to verify. It was 2017. But using music from this decade isn't a good test because I've been alive the whole time. What I meant was if I hear a song from say, before I was alive, I can guess when it came out within 5 years, because once you've heard enough music you hear the trends and you hear the technology. Music is inseparable from its music scene, and even if it's doing something really far out you can hear the technology (the quality of the microphone, the quality of the mix, whatever). Same goes for movies.

I feel like we're really going off on a tangent here.

If you tie the flannel around your waist and wear a leather jacket they might get it. But grunge was just one of the two big late 90's things. There's also "all black with a trenchcoat" and there's the early 90's which is pastel windbreakers and Lisa Frank trapper keepers and shit like that.

I will now google*

all black with a trenchcoat was more like the 2000s since Matrix came out in 1999

The Matrix was a response, not a creator. Same as Blade, they were depicting an extant subculture of goths and ravers. Said subculture was VERY late in the late 90's I'll grant.

they are white as in a blank sheet, not Caucasoid white. everyone see then differently

Destiny, Destruction, and Delirium have a normal Caucasian skintone, though

I liked the Destruction arc.

This.

Dream dammed a girl to hell because she wouldn't be his waifu

user you're too old or too much a boomer to notice it, but this era is built on the disappointment of our generation with the values and systems built by our parents and grandfathers.

From being told we could be everything we ever wanted and that we were going to be the generation to change the world, to smash our face in the asphalt realizing we don't even have a home to call our own. It's the reason heroes these days have feet of clay, deconstructions are incredibly popular and we place value in science as a sort of "religion", with many of our generation being pessimistic about the future. See, the rise of the childfree movement and doomsday predictions.

It's a good thing if it turns out good. It's a bad thing if it turns out shit and kills the chance of adaptation for a decade or permanently.

I really like it, Just needs more sunken in cheeks. Gen 1 Morph was such a waif.

You have him deal with other stuff that requires a gentler touch than burn everything away with the power a million suns, also you explore his and the supporting casts' characters.

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It's good

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Is there a small knife on the end of that gun, or is he meant to be holding it?

it's rob liefeld, who even fucking knows. he probably added the knife in at the end

It looks like it was supposed to be a bayonet but that's not the kind of gun that traditionally has a bayonet.

Rob may have just added it because he thought it looked cool or because he couldn't figure out what else to put in that corner.

I remember Facade really struck me when I read it for the first time.

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Probably the most autistic thing I've ever written was Delirium interacting with Rin from Katawa Shoujo

Holy shit you might have just won tryhard of the year award. I bet you get your opinions from Youtube videos.

This

Thats all of them.

I really like the story about the guy that got lost in a city's dream.

What was her fucking problem?

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I like this suit

00s are better know for the hairstyles

/thread

Prez Rickards' one shot is still one of my favourite single issues ever.

>Nah, you can be a little more selective than that.
You can, but you're being intellectually dishonest. Culture is everything, accept it you fucking 30 yo boomer.

I always wondered what would have happened if that cult had caught death at the very beginning. Would nothing die and everyone would just be immortal?

She was a dumb bitch.

The thing is, I've been fucking obsessed with the 60s since I was 15. The music, the clothes, the politics, everything. And after almost 15 years of immersion, at some point, everything from 1949 to 1974 just seems like the 60s, in the sense that while right now skinheads evolving into glam rockers isn't obvious or even reasonable, but to the people who were right there, it felt "like yesterday" and perfectly natural.
Once you get the gentle luster of history over things, they become much more easier to separate and quantify as different from each other. But we had some very clear breaks from the 00s already (and I'll try to stick to aesthetic changes), everything is much more baroque now. Clothes are for more exaggerated, music (and this happens in pretty much every genre) is much more platonic (in the sense that concept comes before realization. Extreme bands try to sound more extreme, experimental artists are far more worried about the conceptual implications of their sound, people are willing to give pop a "pass" if it's empowering or whatever and will cancel whatever it feels reactionary, driving the music to the background), "slut chic" is a thing (instathots and kardashians being the prime example), lumberjack beards and pompadours came back and kind of went away (along with flannel and a bunch of other "classic male" shit which became "toxic") and so on. There are a bunch of changes, but you're too alienated from everyone else to know or care.

The Emperor of America!
The best bro.

You're probably talking about me with the "too alienated" line at the end. The user you responded to was someone else who happened to halfway agree with what I was saying.

Also quality post, that's what I was looking for from the user or two the other day who kept on REEing about the topic instead of describing their own take on 00s and/or 10s attributes that I wasn't personally able to pick up on.

Oh yeah, those were two replies to two different people but I am after all obsessed with the 60s, which means I do partake in the jazz lettuce in a recreational fashion. My mistake bud.

Death would probably just be like "lol nice try, I'm gonna go, but you guys get to live forever, enjoy!" except they still age and eventually their bodies rot and decompose and they feel every second of it

my man

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I refuse to read anything by Neil Gayman ever.

why?

You mean Kneel Gayman?

Because I think he's full of his own importance.
That's the one.

Is this series any good? I see people praise it like it's comic's Jesus but it looks pretty boring.

its very boring at times but 90% of it is a great story and the little spin offs it has are fantastic

why do you think that?

>You can, but you're being intellectually dishonest.
No. If anything it would have been "intellectually dishonest" not to be clear about the particular sense a vague term like "culture" is being used for. Words have context specific meanings and I wasn't using "culture" in the sense of "anything anyone does." You can use it that way if you want but that's definitely not the only way to use the word.
If someone talks about "work culture" at your office for example they probably don't mean "the way you wipe your ass in the public restroom." Obviously the 00s and 10s possess something falling under the header "anything anyone does," but that's completely different from the sort of "culture" this post did a good job describing:

the makeup obvously is, her personality and general appereance is this chick that gaiman knew. she actually died last year

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Hadley was friends with Mike Dringenberg, not Gaiman. Gaiman gives full credit for Death's appearance to Dringenberg.

oh sorry, I stand corrected

Mate both of those posts are mine

She's Wonder woman's cunt daughter. What did you expect?

Also this is not how I would classify culture at all, what "everything is culture" means, in this context, is that you don't get to pick and choose wich trends and behaviours fall within or without of the term culture. Human beings produce culture even when unaware of said culture, and culture changes with times, even if you, as a participant in that cultrue, can't identify it's larger trends.

user, user, user please. If you wish to enjoy kneel gayman then that's perfectly fine, I however do not wish to.

I just want to know why you think he's full of himself.

It's one of my favorite issues. Between it and issue 19, the one that came before facade, Facade should have won the award

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Name one(1) writer who isn’t full of him/herself

'Kirby didn’t get it right, and I probably won’t either' Pretty arrogant user and other choice comments of his.

clueless zoomer

Kirby wasn't some untouchable god and he's outright admitting that he probably won't outdo Kirby.

Like I said user if you wish to enjoy his writings I'm not stopping you.

Yeah, arrested development and other back packer hip hop like the Wu tang Clan would never have been popular with ehitey if not for Eminem.

Without Eminem vanilla ice and house of pain and if would never try being white in hip hop.

>you don't get to pick and choose wich trends and behaviours fall within or without of the term culture
You were OK with doing this:
>(and I'll try to stick to aesthetic changes)
And that's all I meant in my original response to the first user who suggested "culture is everything" before you made your own "culture is everything" comment in response to my response to that first user. I meant I was talking about a particular meaning of "culture," and that I didn't want a retarded 9/11 discussion when that has little to do with aesthetics.

9/11 had plenty to do with aesthetics. You can actually see clothing and style getting more conservative afterwards. Denim became way more popular and acceptable in most settings.

I stuck to aesthetic changes because that's what you were asking for people. And there is definitely a "9/11 aesthetic", those early color corrected grey and brown movies, stuff like Bourne, Taken, Sum of All Fears and etc.
The same can be said of comics btw, with stuff like the Authority, Ultimates and Planetary were THE aesthetic of 00s comics, and are what we call "widescreen comics" these days.
It honestly seems like you don't think critically about this shit, you just accept whatever pop culture associates with any given time period and can't stop and look at the changes that happened while you were alive but that still haven't been completely commodified yet. See you in 5 years when netflix releases "the 2000s" and you feel nostalgic for Fall out Boy or INvader Gir or whatever.