OTGW and IT

Since Infinity Trains finale has gotten a rather lukewarm reception, I want to know why or what Over the Garden Wall did to make it so good? Both it and IT are 10 episode mini series, but OTGW is seen to be a master piece. So what did it do right that Infinity Train didn't?

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youtu.be/IDUp2sAWreQ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Garden_Wall#Miniseries_(2014)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Train
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibia_(TV_series)
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

Easy:
- fun characters
- actual mystery
- emotionally satisfying resolution

Infinity Train:
- QUIRKY BRITISH ACCENT ROBOT
- THE TRAIN IS TULIP DEALING WITH DIVORCE
- TULIP CAME TO GROW AS A PERSON... SOMEHOW

Over the Garden Wall:
- Wirt and Greg and the rest of the cast are actually fun, interesting characters. There's no QUIRKY character, no FLUFFY TALKING DOG character, the characters are actually special and interesting (the talking horse wants to steal... Beatrice wants to sacrifice Wirt and Greg to the witch, then changes her mind... and so on)
- Wirt actually grows as a person when he realizes he loves his brother and sacrifices himself for him, AND he realizes The Beast only has power over you if you're afraid or you give up or let yourself die.

So basically the writing on OTGW is good and the writing on IT is mediocre at best.

Plus I'm fucking tired of QUIRKY ROBOTS WITH A BRITISH ACCENT

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More tightly paced so even though it was mostly unrelated vignettes there were definitely through lines and motivation to guide the characters’ actions

Yeah one one fucking sucks

Infinity Train's ratings were nearly five times better than OtGW and they didn't have to pay Elijah Wood's voice acting fees. It was a resounding success.

but it still has bad writing.

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Whoop, my bad, did the math wrong, IT averaged (1.18) to OtGW's (0.2). It did nearly six times better in the ratings.

Oh hush, Amphibia having four times as many episodes to generate content from as IT means that IT is already forgotten while Amphibia continues to get hundreds of replies a thread. You're punching an infant and claiming to be the heavyweight champ.

youtu.be/IDUp2sAWreQ I mean, this scene alone is better than the entirety of IT

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Where the hell are you getting your numbers?
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over_the_Garden_Wall#Miniseries_(2014)
OTGW average: 1.26
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Train
IT average: 0.5

So, what, you thought you'd lie about ratings and hoped nobody would check?

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BASED

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I still applaud CN for taking chances. It may not be a resounding success, but I hope it helps OTGW pave the way for tighter and concise storytelling in cartoons.

True. Just because Infinity Train sucks doesn't mean CN should give up on the format. Just stay the fuck away from pitches with sooper-quiiirky totally-not-Doctor-Who characters.

>Just because Infinity Train sucks
it doesn't tho

>mfw I watch it every Fall after Halloween but before Thanksgiving because of that aesthetic
Can't wait to watch it again this year lads

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Yes it does

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my, compelling argument you've got there. IT and Amphibia are both good. fuck off with your tribe wars you petulant faggot.

Jesus Bruce, Greg is a quirky character, if you don't see that is only because you're bias.

I mean at least Greg is a little ass kid and his antics contrast with Wirt’s stick stuck bum

Yes but his personality isn't his quirkiness and everybody hates his quirkiness. That's the difference between a quirky character and a QUIIIRKY character.

>>mfw I do the exact same thing

Straight up? It felt complete.
Each episode told the story it wanted to tell without rushing through it or dragging on and the series ends with what feels like an emotionally earned conclusion.
It doesn't really leave you wanting more, and I mean that as a good thing.
Compared to IT which felt like it -wanted- to tell a larger story but had to cut things for its shorter run-time.
And then had to pull some last minute villain shit that tried to make you care about them when we haven't seen anything about them up until that point.
There's no buildup, there's no TIME for buildup.
It's like we had an entire season's worth of story crammed into 10 short episodes.
Not to mention OtGW doesn't beat you over the head with its messages and themes like IT does.
IT isn't just on the nose, it caves your skull in. Like, damn. I get it. Calm down.

Another thing, the characters are much more endearing and you -want- to follow them and see what they're up to.
I liked seeing Wirt's stick-in-the-mud cautiousness and insecurity play against and Greg's cheerful optimism and I-can-do-anything attitude, and also the banter between Wirt and Beatrice whenever they didn't quite see eye-to-eye.
I liked seeing all the different locations and the characters they had, I was always wondering kind of people were going to be in the next area.
In IT Tulip's kind of just a moody teenage bitch.
I know she's going through her parent's divorce and all, I get that.
It's just not that pleasant to watch, for me at least.
And Atticus and One-One were just kinda one-note and "quirky".
And the Beast is a much better villain than the Conductor, especially when we find out who the Conductor really is.
The Beast is so much more myserious, more sinister, more compelling.
It helps that the Beast is present throughout the story instead of showing up in the last few episodes like the Conductor.

So yeah. OtGW just pretty much got everything right.

Also Tavern Keeper a cute.

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Are you me?

>Elijah Wood's voice acting fees
A hotdog and a handshake? What an extortionist.

Infintyfags BTFO

I finally watched OTGW and I did so right after watching the IT finale. I really liked OTGW's atmosphere, character growth, music, and pacing. It was unique and something I haven't seen in a cartoon before. The ending was a little weird and I'm not sure how on board I am with them just being regular kids in a mysterious world that was also kind of a dream the whole time.

As for IT, I absolutely loved the art, concepts, and character of Tulip. While I enjoyed all the characters, I do think it felt very rushed at times. I personally connected with the atmosphere of IT in a way that I didn't as much with OGTW, but I love weird sci-fi stuff like Tron so that's probably part of it. I'm excited to see what additional content for IT will do. As it stands though, OTGW is the better of the two just for how contained and well-paced it was.

.... Greg was the weird quirky character

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>Infinity Trains finale has gotten a rather lukewarm reception
It didn't, it was fairly positive in fact

>Amphibia
lol shitty cal arts show that flopped hard with a 0.34 finale

Oh look, you again
Point at this guy and laugh

Raw numbers aren't ratings. If you don't adjust for demographics and overall television viewership, televangelists surpass everything else by several million due to elderly viewers in nursing homes.

IT was far more profitable either way. OtGW had to pay for Elijah Wood on top of advertisers being distracted by Monday Night Football because somehow airing an expensive special miniseries in the middle of football season seemed like a good idea.

Proof?

The adjusted ratings for IT aren't even available anymore, I'm pretty sure Showbuzz Daily has been bought by a company that owns a streaming service and is trying to further the idea that TV is dead by replacing calculated numbers with a raw headcount. Amphibia held steady around (0.50) and never dipped below (0.40), is an asshat.

For starters, TV viewership is down across the board. Comparing OtGW's raw numbers to IT's raw numbers doesn't actually give you any useful market share information, which is what television executives use to make decisions.

I thought both were pretty good, although I prefer OtGW because it doesn't really leave things super open ended.

Greg is 100% the quirky character, did we watch the same show?

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>televangelists surpass everything else by several million
So your saying we make a cartoon televangelist?

*headcount as soon as S&P allows them to do so, any outlet reporting ratings is required to report the adjusted numbers for a few days, which is why you hear journalists gushing about things like "estimated number of viewers" leading into things like the GoT finale but never following up with the actual number because by the time they can actually report those, the news cycle has already moved on.

Anyone paying attention will have noticed the parenthetical calculated numbers getting swapped out with a raw headcount on Wikipedia as soon as a citation is available.

Sure, it's been so well-received in the past.

TV networks give televangelists a wide berth because they're one fake earnest appeal to their brainwashed audience of the elderly away from getting flooded with phone calls and letters from everyone's grandparents.

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>Plus I'm fucking tired of QUIRKY ROBOTS WITH A BRITISH ACCENT
I'm sick of quirky robot characters in general, them being British just adds an extra layer of hate for that.

>Amphibia held steady around (0.50) and never dipped below (0.40)
Source? Wikipedia says otherwise
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibia_(TV_series)

OTGW didn't feel rushed
also they used their characters in their full potential
and OTGW has bea

>I'm pretty sure Showbuzz Daily has been bought by a company that owns a streaming service and is trying to further the idea that TV is dead by replacing calculated numbers with a raw headcount.

Fucking tinhat, no one is interested on your conspiracy theories without evidence.

everyone is avoiding saying it because its low hanging fruit but

calarts

Those are headcount views. You can dig through View history and see cached versions of the pages listing the calculated ratings, but the Showbuzz citations have changed to raw headcount.

Pacing and better episodic structure.

>Go to new place, meet people and learn something from them
>OR help them with a problem that mirrors the protagonists own
is a episodic format that works well for these travelling quest shows.

It develops the heroes relationship to the setting (which is always significant to this plot) and most importantly lets the viewers see the protagonist function in a low stakes situation.
The latter is better at making the audience care about the heroes, since it establishes some happiness that they stand to loose when the finale comes round.

You again?

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user I hate to sound like I am defending IT but OTGW came out during the early stages of the Cable Exodus. IT came out long after it as well as Comcast moving CN to a premium channel (bad thing)

Over the Garden Wall had a setting based in actual grounded roots reflecting a real world past and used both narrative structure and visuals that lined up with it, creating a series with a fully cohesive identity that was reflected in its writing, setting, music, plot, character interactions, and so on. It bleeds late 19th to early 20th Century Americana.
Infinity train was built around a mystery plot without a cohesive identity, which made it feel far more disjointed, even if that was part of the point. It tried to do something new, which is in a way admirable, but it cared more about that than having a strong solid vision.

Basically Over the Garden Wall was an homage to existing things and could use them to build a foundation, while also making sure that the entire structure of the show was based around that foundation. Infinity Train didn't have any cohesive singular thing that it was based upon to use as guidance, and it failed to build a solid identity of its own.

> his personality isn't his quirkiness
I disagree, it absolutely is.

The Church of Yea Forums

IT kind of reminds me of Black Parade:
Black Parade starts as a weird purgatory type situation, but over the course of the show its revealed that the judges are biased, the games they play to test people are arbitrary, and everything seems ultimately without a purpose.

The train is there to make people grow, but why is that? Best case scenario people judge themselves subconsciously. Also how are people chosen to go on the train, and what does that say about their world?

In OtGW things are left ambiguous. The Unknown could be a dying dream/ afterlife/ other world/ metaphor for something else/ all of the above, doesn't matter. But (in universe) it doesn't just exist to make people better. Wirt had to go trough a character arc in a more organic way, the challenge din't exist just to help him grow. It was something he caused and overcoming his issues was just a means to an end.

Greg's personality is his quirkiness and his cheerful optimism and confidence.
It's just that he's not really annoying, and the plot doesn't bend itself over to always be in the right or anything like that.

Hey look my prediction came true.

It did? IT made far higher ratings than Amphibia.

Anne Vs Tulip posts are actually hilarious to me so I'm fine with them

He didn't said that Amphibia didn't flopped even harded.

>Over the Garden Wall
>no quirky character

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Its a good thing IT has higher ratings. That way, all the retarded cartoon youtubers will focus on it way more and leave Amphibia alone. Enjoy your cancerous fanbase!

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OtGW was mostly board driven while IT was pure script driven

Too bad the script sucked.

yeah I'm saying that's why OtGW is better

Normally when a character dabs in a cartoon it makes me groan and roll my eyes.
But when Anne dabs it feels natural and I laugh.
Why is this?

Because Anne is just brimming with Charisma

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Star vs had ratings as low as .12 in season 2. It doesn't really matter though since kids watch on the app and not TV.

OTGW felt like it had more substance (and I found it feh)

THIS

same
>tfw moving to the city soon so I won't get to see the leaves change color
It's the little things that hurt

Also, the pacing. Over the garden wall stays in every stop long enough to resolve a story. There are no implied stops and each one has impact on the story being told.

For One OTGW had 30 minutes to flesh out an episode rather than 15

They also Did foreshadowing really well throughtout all 12 episodes

Really the worst part about IT finale was the fact that all the buildup of the Final "Twist" happened in the final episode.

The only bit of foreshadowing we got was when oneone acted weird in the incomplete world, I guess the fact that Tulip was able to move spheres could also be seen as foreshadowing aswell.

But making the Conducter human, Making her the wife of a couple we only were introduced to in the last episode, and making oneone the actual conducter really came out of nowhere and had little to no buildup.

Compare that to all the buildup in the plot and character development of Wirt and Greg and the bird through the whole series to the final fight and really OTGW stands miles ahead of infinity train.

>For One OTGW had 30 minutes to flesh out an episode rather than 15
no it didn't it had 11 just like IT
>They also Did foreshadowing really well throughout all 12 episodes
10 episodes
I agree with all your points about the twist and Wirt and Gregs development but check your facts before you start saying shit.

>what Over the Garden Wall did to make it so good?
It actually answered some fucking questions about the mysterious world it set up.

After OTGW's finale:
- The Beast is defeated
- We learn the Beast's motivations
- The Woodsman is freed from the Beast/the Lamp
- The Woodsman is renuited with his daughter
- Beatrice returns to normal and goes home
- Wirt and Greg return home
- We learn "The Unknown" is some sort of quasi-afterlife
- Wirt sets up a date with Sara

After the finale of Infinity Train we still don't know :
- Where the Train is
- Who built it/OneOne
- Why
- How it crossed into our world
- What the fuck those monsters are
- Who the other people on the train are (and why)
- or Amelia's ultimate fate

Infinity Train takes a shit load of time to build a mysterious world and proceeds to answer all but a very few questions. It's unsatisfying at best.

Ultimatly Patrick McHale had been working on OTGW for literal years so of course his is much better because one way or another he was going to make it.

However to go a bit deeper than what stated, there is more. Really OTGW is ment to emulate the fairy tales and folk lore stories we grew up with. It's a simple tale that teaches us a deep moral but with a simple yet crazy tale. Wirt's problem with acting like an older brother and an awkward teenager are both relatable, hit deep and can be solved and explained pretty simply. As for the world, ironically it has nothing to hide. The fact that it presents itself as a fantasic, cartoon folk tale that takes place in the past generally answers all our questions about why there are talking animals, witches, ghosts and what not. Once we get the big reveal Wirt and company where probably dead the world still makes sense and explains a bit on how they got there and why they got out.

IT on the other hand. Divorce really is a bit more complicated of a problem. There are tons of reasons why people get divorced and frankly it's an issue not everyone has or deals with the same way. Now add this weird parinormal train that is also high tech but also travels in time but also helps us with problems but also people live there forever? Are the cars their own little universe or do they all eventually have a wall you hit? Amelia makes reference to how cars are specially made for each person but her's didn't have her dead husband. The numbers on Lily's hand still doesn't make sense either and they never fully explain what causes it to increase or decrease.

There are way to many questions it leaves and with them acknolowing that it has high tech and can reach the outside world just adds more to the question of what the point the train is, how it works, how the world works and how did Lily even solve her problems. If anything Lily didn't even solve her problems.

OTGW is still unsurpassed, perhaps forever.

Also Beatrice is best waifu

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cause anne would actually hit the dab and it would totally be in character

Greg's a little kid, though. He's allowed to be quirky, and more importantly he's more positive and optimistic than quirky. It makes him a good foil to Wirt, and his good cheer and personality are critical to the plot, instead of just a sideshow to the plot.

Always

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>Patrick McHale had been working on OTGW for literal years
Really? I believe that. OTGW is the type of story you gain from rewatching. IT seems to be good as a teaser. If anything I think the next season is what's going to make it a hit or crash and burn.

I think IT is fine, but OTGW is just a really hard act to follow when held up against anything at all comparable.

I never finished Long Live the Royals, but from what I did see it was crap compared to both of them.

OtGW did not have half hour episodes. They were like 11 minuted (15 after commercials), the same as IT.

Being based off one of the greatest works of literature in history helps alot

Hansel and Gretel is a pretty nice story, but it’s not THAT great.

Oh you

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